Official Sony [X9] XBR-55X900A / XBR-65X900A Owner's Thread - Page 401 - AVS Forum
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post #12001 of 12617 Old 09-02-2014, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Nice catch. I am always making minor changes to the settings PDF. For example, I just added the tip for the Display Area setting, based on our recent conversations here in the thread.

As far as the White Balance values, they have indeed changed, but I didn't realize they had changed dramatically. I don't always go back and look at previous versions of the PDF. What changed for me recently is I am using a different disk for the test patterns. Previously, I had been using a disk called AVS HD709 (a free download here on AVS). Since I am such a big fan of the Spears&Munsil version 2 Blu-ray calibration disk, I started using the test patterns from that disk, which I am sure account for some of the changes. I also recently posted a new method for establishing the level of the Color setting, which has gone down on my set from a value of 55 to its current value of 51. I am sure this change impacted the White Balance settings as well.

So, bottom line is that White Balance settings are usually display-specific, and require test gear to set them properly. In my Settings PDF, I clearly state "use at your own risk" . While I think they should result in reasonably close grayscale on your display, the only real way to check is to learn how to do a DIY calibration yourself. Try it--it is a lot of fun!
Thanks for the reply! Figured you were probably doing some additional research and tweaking . The settings look great on my TV with my old eyes!
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post #12002 of 12617 Old 09-02-2014, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by waqasjamal View Post
But I didn't have this issue with the 55". It was mounted on the same mount and both are tilted at the same angle.
The 55A has a different 3D FPR than the 65A, it allows for a better vertical viewing angle at the expense of 1080p 3D.
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post #12003 of 12617 Old 09-02-2014, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Nice catch. I am always making minor changes to the settings PDF. For example, I just added the tip for the Display Area setting, based on our recent conversations here in the thread.

As far as the White Balance values, they have indeed changed, but I didn't realize they had changed dramatically. I don't always go back and look at previous versions of the PDF. What changed for me recently is I am using a different disk for the test patterns. Previously, I had been using a disk called AVS HD709 (a free download here on AVS). Since I am such a big fan of the Spears&Munsil version 2 Blu-ray calibration disk, I started using the test patterns from that disk, which I am sure account for some of the changes. I also recently posted a new method for establishing the level of the Color setting, which has gone down on my set from a value of 55 to its current value of 51. I am sure this change impacted the White Balance settings as well.

So, bottom line is that White Balance settings are usually display-specific, and require test gear to set them properly. In my Settings PDF, I clearly state "use at your own risk" . While I think they should result in reasonably close grayscale on your display, the only real way to check is to learn how to do a DIY calibration yourself. Try it--it is a lot of fun!
AustinJerry, I discovered your updated settings last night as well and noticed that you are also now using a gamma setting of 0 which is 2.2 whereas in the past you had used a gamma setting of -2 which equated to a gamma setting of 2.4. Any reason why you made this change as well. I love your settings and use them as my default on my TV.
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post #12004 of 12617 Old 09-02-2014, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Reyfam View Post
AustinJerry, I discovered your updated settings last night as well and noticed that you are also now using a gamma setting of 0 which is 2.2 whereas in the past you had used a gamma setting of -2 which equated to a gamma setting of 2.4. Any reason why you made this change as well. I love your settings and use them as my default on my TV.
The difference is actually quite subtle. 2.4 is slightly darker, and I found the lighter 2.2 gamma more to my liking. I encourage you to try both and pick the setting that is most pleasing.
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post #12005 of 12617 Old 09-02-2014, 10:08 PM
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I found there was too much crushing of the darker shades of black at -2. Even at 0, there is still crushing of the 2-3 darkest shades of black on this set, which is really only visible on the test patterns. I leave it at 0 now, because I don't watch my TV in a pitch-black room.
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post #12006 of 12617 Old 09-02-2014, 10:48 PM
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Just received an update. PKG4.470AAA What's new?
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post #12007 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The difference is actually quite subtle. 2.4 is slightly darker, and I found the lighter 2.2 gamma more to my liking. I encourage you to try both and pick the setting that is most pleasing.
On my set, -2 is beyond 2.4 gamma, according to measurements. The -1 is between 2.3 and 2.2 over most of the range.

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post #12008 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ultraflexed View Post
How do I turn off the eco settings ?

About to read the through the link in your sig about setting ir up
I had the same issue you did, only my experience was actually at the Best Buy store. The x9 didn't look nearly as good as...well, anything else they had around it. I couldn't understand this because I knew the tv was among the best sets there. The problem was that the light sensor was turned on. It baffles me why this option is set on from the factory. It's tricky to find too.

Go to Home-preferences-eco settings. Turn everything off, especially that awful light sensor. Like magic, the TV light output increases dramatically and the panel looks as it should. This is a big deal. You must turn it off. It's ruinous.

Another reason you may feel the tv doesn't look as good as the store setup is due to how they calibrate their tv's. Here on the forums we strive for accurate picture reproduction in order to get as close to the picture the director intended, which on this tv is astonishing close. Retail outlets set the televisions to be as sexy as possible, which almost always means using a "vivid" color setting, turning on most video processing and maxing light output. This utterly destroys the natural image but provides a very seductive look which sells tv's. And, in fairness, many stores are combating an enormous amount of ambient light.

Turn off your eco sensor, set the tv to general-vivid, set the backlight at 10 (max), turn live color to high and see what it looks like. It will look as good or better than what you saw in the store.

Please keep in mind that these settings do not provide an accurate picture. Film and video will appear bright and colorful but miles away from what they're truly supposed to look like when they were being shot. The high brightness will also be nearly blinding and give you a headache in a dark room, subtle details in very light and dark areas will also be lost. However, some people do prefer this type of viewing and at first it's easy to see why. It's only superficial though.

Use settings like AJ's (see his signature line) and you may feel disappointed at first, but watch a few films and you'll notice things you've never seen before. Like how a director may use subtly different lens filters in certain scenes to add emotional impact. Filming is an art form and our objective, on this site anyway, is to get as close to the intended art as possible. It really does open up a whole new world once you get a good panel like this one and calibrate it. Film becomes something more than just moving pictures, you'll start to see how much effort went into getting each scene to look exactly a certain way, and that adds tremendously to the experience. Hell, that IS the experience.

A caveat would be sports and low budget tv shows like reality tv or soap operas. In many of those cases you may just want an eye popping picture. Sports especially. There's no director of photography (that I know of) ensuring perfect cinematography. That's why the tv had so many different scene selections. I don't watch sports but if I did, I'm sure I wouldn't use my cinema calibrated settings. I don't use them for video games, although they aren't terribly far off.

Hope that helps.

Edits/ps: search for recommendations for settings by Flinchn. In some cases he's offered up excellent settings for striking a balance between the most accurate reproduction and a sexy one.

Last edited by zephyrzone; 09-03-2014 at 01:31 AM.
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post #12009 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 02:17 AM
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Also i would like to add that if you have the 55" then although Austins settings are great for the 65" check out Geoff D's settings for the 55" that he had recently. I am still using his. Thanks Geoff
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post #12010 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by zephyrzone View Post

Edits/ps: search for recommendations for settings by Flinchn. In some cases he's offered up excellent settings for striking a balance between the most accurate reproduction and a sexy one.
I have noticed the "majority" prefer the cinema vs general for scene select. I understand watching movies, cinema will shine. But does cinema shine for daily HD tv viewing, gaming, and most importantly, live sports (ie. NFL,MLB,NHL)?

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post #12011 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 10:29 AM
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I have noticed the "majority" prefer the cinema vs general for scene select. I understand watching movies, cinema will shine. But does cinema shine for daily HD tv viewing, gaming, and most importantly, live sports (ie. NFL,MLB,NHL)?
Yes, most of us perfectionists start with "cinema" mode and calibrate that with at least a disc and a blue filter to set it up, or with measuring instruments to get it accurately set in terms of white balance, luminance levels and getting the color and hue properly set.

The idea is to get the picture that accurately reflects what s being sent.

Yes, it looks better on sports and everything else - if you want to see it as transmitted, in the most realistic way possible.

Modes like vivid and so on, artificially alter the picture to make them appear sharper and more vividly colored. This fools the eye, but in reality actually adds artifacts and things that are not part of the image. Also to fool your eye into thinking it is brighter, modes like vivid shift the color strongly towards blue, instead of the warm, daylight color it is supposed to be.

Once you get used to an accurately calibrated monitor, it is really hard to watch one set that way.

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post #12012 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 10:58 AM
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When it comes to White balance, what is this dependant on? For example, AJ has #'s for his white balance, and he's using cinema 2. flinchn has completely different #'s for his white balance, and using cinema 1. Is this more personal preference, or are they dramatically different based on what scene select/scene you run?

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post #12013 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bodean View Post
When it comes to White balance, what is this dependant on? For example, AJ has #'s for his white balance, and he's using cinema 2. flinchn has completely different #'s for his white balance, and using cinema 1. Is this more personal preference, or are they dramatically different based on what scene select/scene you run?
In my case, I use a colorimeter and SpectraCal's CalMAN calibration software. There is a calibration page called Grayscale 2-Point Adjustments. While displaying a white test pattern and observing the three RGB Balance color bars, the values of gain and bias in the White Balance section are adjusted until the color bars are lined up as close as you can get them. Also, the DeltaE 2000 bars should be as low as possible.



The White Balance adjustments are interdependent with other settings, e.g. Gamma, Color and Tint. So, these settings must be dialed in before proceeding to the While Balance settings. The White Balance settings establish the Grayscale of the display, which in turn affects the overall PQ, and the uniformity of the PQ as the image goes from bright to dark. As I have said many times, White Balance settings vary by display, by the interdependence with other settings, and the side of the bed the calibrator got up from on that day.

BTW, if you look at the screen shot above, you might ask, can't you adjust it closer than what is displayed? Maybe, but this is pretty close. It's like playing whack-a-mole--adjust the 80% bars and the 30% bars change, and vice-versa.
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post #12014 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
In my case, I use a colorimeter and SpectraCal's CalMAN calibration software. There is a calibration page called Grayscale 2-Point Adjustments. While displaying a white test pattern and observing the three RGB Balance color bars, the values of gain and bias in the White Balance section are adjusted until the color bars are lined up as close as you can get them. Also, the DeltaE 2000 bars should be as low as possible.



The White Balance adjustments are interdependent with other settings, e.g. Gamma, Color and Tint. So, these settings must be dialed in before proceeding to the While Balance settings. The White Balance settings establish the Grayscale of the display, which in turn affects the overall PQ, and the uniformity of the PQ as the image goes from bright to dark. As I have said many times, White Balance settings vary by display, by the interdependence with other settings, and the side of the bed the calibrator got up from on that day.

BTW, if you look at the screen shot above, you might ask, can't you adjust it closer than what is displayed? Maybe, but this is pretty close. It's like playing whack-a-mole--adjust the 80% bars and the 30% bars change, and vice-versa.
AJ- If I'm reading your report correctly, it looks like the Delta errors are well below 1. Am I looking at the right thing? For all intents and purposes isn't below 1 perfect?
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post #12015 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 11:41 AM
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AJ- If I'm reading your report correctly, it looks like the Delta errors are well below 1. Am I looking at the right thing? For all intents and purposes isn't below 1 perfect?
I wouldn't call anything perfect, but the values are indeed low, and below the target described in CalMAN as being "good".
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post #12016 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 02:36 PM
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AJ, back a page or two there was talk about the +1 display setting as it pertains to a 1080 input to the X900A. Geoff said if a input signal is 1080 or less the set would show the +1 (if set to that) but a 2160 input would say "full pixel". I found it interesting today when playing a superHD show from Netflix on my X10 that my TV is showing "full pixel" in the screen settings? Doesn't really matter but thought it was of interest.
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post #12017 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 03:41 PM
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AJ, back a page or two there was talk about the +1 display setting as it pertains to a 1080 input to the X900A. Geoff said if a input signal is 1080 or less the set would show the +1 (if set to that) but a 2160 input would say "full pixel". I found it interesting today when playing a superHD show from Netflix on my X10 that my TV is showing "full pixel" in the screen settings? Doesn't really matter but thought it was of interest.
Gerry
I just confirmed what you said, that the display menu shows "Full Pixel" instead of +1. So let's work backwards from the answer--if we see "Full Pixel", this means that the display is actually receiving a 4K signal. So why would the display be receiving a 4K signal if the program being shown is only 1080p? It must be because the X10 is actually performing the up-conversion, not the display, and passing a 4K signal, regardless of the source material.

I'm not sure that we have ever discussed that the X10 might be up-converting, but notice that when you first start up the X10, you will see briefly "3840x2160" in the upper left corner of the screen. So my theory is that the X10 is always passing a 4K signal, regardless of the content. Make sense?
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post #12018 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 05:32 PM
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That's a good point Jerry. Why would the 4K box even have a 1080p output? Yeah, Blu-ray players can be set to output less than their max resolution but that's probably a legacy thing that's mandated in the BD specifications - and Sony don't have any such 'universal' specs to hew to for their X series players so they output 4K (whether native or upscaled) on all net, all channels. Would you like to know more?
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post #12019 of 12617 Old 09-03-2014, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bodean View Post
When it comes to White balance, what is this dependant on? For example, AJ has #'s for his white balance, and he's using cinema 2. flinchn has completely different #'s for his white balance, and using cinema 1. Is this more personal preference, or are they dramatically different based on what scene select/scene you run?
White point or white balance is the blend of red, green and blue that make white. There is a standard for television called D65, which mimics the color of sunlight on a clear day at noon, or 6500 degrees K. The higher the number, the more bluish the white is, the lower, the more reddish.

Ideally, this would track the same from perfectly black, through every level of grey to full white with the same amount of red, green and blue light.

If the balance of white point or greyscale is off, then the appearance of colors will also be off.

The only way to accurately set the white balance is with test instruments and this will be individual to the particular display you have.

There are differences in manufacturing and sometimes the same model of TV will have LCD panels sourced from different companies with completely different color characteristics.

It is rather pointless to copy someone else's white balance settings because it is rare your TV will be the same.
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post #12020 of 12617 Old 09-04-2014, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I just confirmed what you said, that the display menu shows "Full Pixel" instead of +1. So let's work backwards from the answer--if we see "Full Pixel", this means that the display is actually receiving a 4K signal. So why would the display be receiving a 4K signal if the program being shown is only 1080p? It must be because the X10 is actually performing the up-conversion, not the display, and passing a 4K signal, regardless of the source material.

I'm not sure that we have ever discussed that the X10 might be up-converting, but notice that when you first start up the X10, you will see briefly "3840x2160" in the upper left corner of the screen. So my theory is that the X10 is always passing a 4K signal, regardless of the content. Make sense?
Yes, it makes sense. I think that I (we) assumed that the X10 was passing native resolution to the set. But it appears as you say that the X10 is doing the up-conversion.
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post #12021 of 12617 Old 09-04-2014, 11:39 AM
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Question. How does one find out what frequency (25,30,60HZ?) a 4k video file was recorded at. My PC outputs at a max of 30HZ in 4k mode. Does my output frequency have to be a multiple of the native frequency for best results?
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post #12022 of 12617 Old 09-04-2014, 07:18 PM
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Just received an update. PKG4.470AAA What's new?
I just received this update as well. Other than it leaving me at a black screen after completion, which scared me for a moment until I turned the TV off and on, I have no idea what it did.
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post #12023 of 12617 Old 09-04-2014, 08:36 PM
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I just received this update as well. Other than it leaving me at a black screen after completion, which scared me for a moment until I turned the TV off and on, I have no idea what it did.
I did too. It'd be nice if they'd make the changelog accessible either online or through the TV when it actually shows up on the TV.
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post #12024 of 12617 Old 09-04-2014, 09:11 PM
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Just had to post a gripe that the X900A has the slowest channel flipping OTA tuner I have ever used. You press up or down on the channel key and it will literally take a couple seconds to change channels or else the commands back up and stall taking you a few channels past what you intended. Very annoying. I know most people don't even use the tuner anymore, but I see no reason for such a sluggish tuner on this expensive of a set. I wonder if that can be fixed by firmware.
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post #12025 of 12617 Old 09-05-2014, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bodean View Post
When it comes to White balance, what is this dependant on? For example, AJ has #'s for his white balance, and he's using cinema 2. flinchn has completely different #'s for his white balance, and using cinema 1. Is this more personal preference, or are they dramatically different based on what scene select/scene you run?
My settings that I post have been preference settings, at least from the last 8 months or so. I have been unsatisfied with various calibrated settings that I originally measured or posted here or in professional reviews.

Actually I'm rocking slightly different settings now as THE season has started - Note Warm2, although I've taken the yellowish sheen off in the white balance, and I discovered a significant loss of shadow detail (ok, significant to me) unless I pushed the gamma to +1 - you may like to bump color a few notches to compensate for the gamma.

I agree white balance has negligible "copy" value (and probably none for 55" panels) and have been saying that for some time, but unless we have a get-together owner convention, no pictures we post will accurately show the color gamut of this set.

I don't come around or get email updates on this thread anymore, but I checked in to see if anybody had problems with the update just pushed out ---- so you can try the settings in my signature (for some reason I can only see sigs in AVSforum desktop mode) and see how you get along but YMMV. As always, these are for a light controlled to dark room. Sometimes 6 is a more pleasureable backlight setting for pitch black viewing.



FWIW, the combination of Cinemotion=Off, Super Bit Mapping=Off (in Pro Picture), and Motionflow=True Cinema -as in my sig- seems to have minimized the minor motion artifacts I would see at the top of my screen with slow horizontal pans of gray or blue skies. Dunno if its just my eyes. Cheers

(The previous settings from earlier in the summer are on the link below in case people liked the variety to play with.)
http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/da...c_Capture.jpeg



------------------------
Btw, thanks for all the 'Liked' love over the last 14 months, it's nice, even an honor, to have a ~25% likes to posts
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post #12026 of 12617 Old 09-05-2014, 06:21 AM
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Where can we find AustinJerry's latest setting spec sheet?
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post #12027 of 12617 Old 09-05-2014, 06:26 AM
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Where can we find AustinJerry's latest setting spec sheet?


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/..._8-31-2014.pdf
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post #12028 of 12617 Old 09-05-2014, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by flinchn View Post
I don't come around or get email updates on this thread anymore, but I checked in to see if anybody had problems with the update just pushed out ---- so you can try the settings in my signature (for some reason I can only see sigs in AVSforum desktop mode) and see how you get along but YMMV. As always, these are for a light controlled to dark room. Sometimes 6 is a more pleasureable backlight setting for pitch black viewing.


(The previous settings from earlier in the summer are on the link below in case people liked the variety to play with.)
http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/da...c_Capture.jpeg
I am in desktop mode and I can't see your sig or the link to your settings.
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post #12029 of 12617 Old 09-05-2014, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I am in desktop mode and I can't see your sig or the link to your settings.
Yeah cause when I edit in mobile mode it takes it out. Back now. Cheers
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post #12030 of 12617 Old 09-05-2014, 07:59 AM
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