Official Sony [X9] XBR-55X900A / XBR-65X900A Owner's Thread - Page 451 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #13501 of 13603 Old 07-25-2016, 10:45 PM
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Thanks guys! Yeah I'm sure that the 4K player is just a ruse to get me away but the fact is at the end of the day my unit is incapable of playing protected i.e consumer grade 4K content. I am using this as my contest point and so far it has managed to get me far with JB HIFI at least. I will be heading back in tonight, I'll report my findings.
Well. I am coming back to this a bit late but I want to report my findings and my story. After having my TV for 2 months the retailer turned around and said because I couldn't prove the TV wouldn't play consumer grade 4K as the player wasn't out that I was out of luck. I was told that when the 4K Blu-ray player is released it will work with my TV and I might have a case then. Forward to 2016 and me purchasing a Samsung UBD-K8500 and low and behold it didn't work! After a very strongly worded email I finally got my 55 XBR-55X900A accepted back into the store with the full value I paid for back in 2013 and I walked away with a 2016 HDR model. Extremely happy and glad my persistence paid off.
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post #13502 of 13603 Old 08-03-2016, 11:41 AM
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XBox One S

Xbox One S with XBR-65X900A


Last night I replaced my Xbox One with a XBox One S. While it works, I have run into a few challenges.


My XBR-65X900A came from the factory with HDCP 2.2 on HDMI 4 (I have been using a Roku 4 successfully with Amazon 4K on this input so I know for sure that it works).


Right now I am using an older receiver (STR-DN1040) which annoyingly I purchased specifically as it supports 4K switching, but of course it came out before HDCP 2.2 so it is basically useless for switching actual 4K sources. Because of this, I have connected the Xbox One S directly to HDMI 4 on the TV. I am using a Sony flat HDMI "High Speed" cable that supports ARC and Ethernet.


- The Xbox One S does work in 4K on the HDMI4 connection. When I put the Xbox One S into 4K output mode, everything from the XBOS is upscaled to 4K. Everything. Interestingly, on the XBOS main menu the upscaler is doing a better job with the menu text than the built-in scalar in the TV. For example, a large capital "V" showed more staircasing if I set the XBOS to 1080p output (i.e. the TV upscales to 4K) than if I set the XBOS to 4K output. Now, back to "everything" - even when watching a 1080p Blu-ray disc, the XBOS upscales to 4K - it does not switch back to 1080p for disc playback. I don't actually know if the XBOS upscaler will be better for 1080p movies than the 65X900A upscaler, so I am not sure if that is a good thing or not. But what is does do is stop any annoying TV resolution switches from happening, so no more black screens for a few seconds like happens on my Roku 4 when it goes back and forth between it's native 1080p app menus and a 4K video stream.


- My AVR is connected to HDMI1, and the ARC is limiting the Xbox One S on HDMI 4 to stereo playback for some reason - I cannot force the Xbox One S into any surround modes for this reason, and I cannot activate bitstreaming. This is strange as when I had the Roku 4 on HDMI4 it could bitstream the older DD5.1 format back to the receiver through ARC. Apparently I will only be able to fix this problem by buying a new AVR (likely a STR-DN1070) which can pass through HDCP 2.2 and plugging my Xbox One S into that. The AVR would then be plugged into HDMI 4. But if my AVR is connected to HDMI 4, will it be able to receive ARC, as ARC is supported only on HDMI 1 on the 65X900A?


- The really bad news is that this TV will never support 4K gaming, probably on this or any future console. On the Xbox One S under "4K TV Details", the XBOS reports that while the TV does support "4K UHD (60Hz)", it also lists that it:
"
TV does NOT support (movies & TV):
4K 10-bit at 24Hz
4K 10-bit at 50Hz
4K 10-bit at 60Hz
HDR10 video


TV does NOT support (playing games):
Your TV setup does not support 4K 10-bit at 60Hz. You won't be able to play games at 4K.
Your TV setup doesn't support HDR10 for gaming. Games won't be shown in HDR
"


I went to the Sony support site and pulled up the specs from the latest firmware for the 65X900a. It states the following:
"Provides HDMI® 2.0 compatibility (Applies to 4K models only)
Supports 4K 60p (3840X2160p (59.94/60Hz) YCbCr 4:2:0 8bit, 4096X2160p (59.94/60Hz) YCbCr 4:2:0 8bit)"


Microsoft's support site lists on a page entitled "4K on Xbox One S technical requirements":
"
TV resolution
Your TV must support the following requirements in order to upscale the system and non-native content to 4K:

Feature
Requirements
4K @ 60 Hz
Resolution: 3840 x 2160p
Refresh rate: 60 Hz

Watching movies & TV
Your TV must support the following requirements to switch to specific 4K or HDR modes on demand for movie and TV content:

Feature
Requirements
4K @ 24 Hz
Resolution: 3840 x 2160p
Refresh rate: 24 Hz
Color depth: 30 bits per pixel (10-bit)
Pixel encoding: 4:4:4
4K @ 50 Hz
Resolution: 3840 x 2160p
Refresh rate: 50 Hz
Color depth: 30 bits per pixel (10-bit)
Pixel encoding: 4:2:0
4K @ 60 Hz
Resolution: 3840 x 2160p
Refresh rate: 60 Hz
Color depth: 30 bits per pixel (10-bit)
Pixel encoding: 4:2:0
HDR
Your TV must support the HDR10 media profile:
  • BT2020 color space or gamut
  • High Dynamic Range (ST2084)
Some TV manufacturers may call this something else. For example, "HDR Premium" or "Ultra HD Premium."

Playing games

Your TV must support the following requirements to switch to 4K or HDR on demand for games:

Feature
Requirements
4K @ 60 Hz
Resolution: 3840 x 2160p
Refresh rate: 60 Hz
Color depth: 30 bits per pixel (10-bit)
Pixel encoding: 4:2:0
HDR
Your TV must support the HDR10 media profile:
  • BT2020 color space or gamut
  • High Dynamic Range (ST2084)
Some TV manufacturers may call this something else. For example, "HDR Premium" or "Ultra HD Premium."



"


NOTICE how all of the modes in the technical requirements state that 10-bit color depth is required, while the Sony support site states that (at least at 60P) only 8-bit is supported.


I now realize that while I did successfully get upscaling of the Xbox One S menus and games and 1080p Blu-Ray video to work fine in 4K. I have played one Netflix 4K video from the app on the XBox One S and it played fine. I have not yet tested a true 4K Blu-Ray disc yet. My assumption is that as long as the source material is in 8-bit I will be fine. I don't know how common 10-bit sources are, yet.


BUT, the terrible news is that appears this TV will apparently never be compatible with 4K gaming (this console, and more importantly future actual 4K gaming consoles) as it does not support the proper modes. That sucks....

Last edited by bsd107; 08-04-2016 at 11:59 AM. Reason: updated cabling info
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post #13503 of 13603 Old 08-03-2016, 11:44 AM
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Does the XBR-65X900A support ARC on HDMI4 (HDCP2.2)?


I plan to buy a new AVR that support HDCP2.2, which means it will need to connect to the XBR-65X900A on HDMI4. But, my understanding is that ARC is only supported when connecting the AVR to HDMI1?
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post #13504 of 13603 Old 08-04-2016, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bsd107 View Post
Does the XBR-65X900A support ARC on HDMI4 (HDCP2.2)?


I plan to buy a new AVR that support HDCP2.2, which means it will need to connect to the XBR-65X900A on HDMI4. But, my understanding is that ARC is only supported when connecting the AVR to HDMI1?


No ARC on HDMI4.

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Originally Posted by teeitup View Post
Just got a new HDCP 2.2 receiver. The bad part is you lose ARC capability as the receiver has to be hooked up to HDMI 4 and ARC from the TV is on HDMI 1.
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post #13505 of 13603 Old 08-05-2016, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by teeitup View Post
No ARC on HDMI4.


Darn.


Previously I had my Roku 4 on HDMI4, with the AVR connected to HDMI1. I found that the TV would actually pass surround sound (at least DD5.1) to the AVR from the Roku 4 over ARC. (Luckily it did not limit the pass-through to 2-channel audio as I had expected.)


Can I use the Optical Out from the TV to achieve the same functionality? That is, if I connect the AVR to HDMI4, and a surround sound device on HDMI1, HDMI2, or HDMI3 (like a Xbox360, Wii U or Apple TV) to the AVR, will the 65X900A pass DD5.1 over optical to the AVR? Or will it limit to 2-channel audio, or not work at all?


(My big problem is my AVR does not have enough HDMI inputs for all my devices - so I HAVE to use some of the HDMI inputs on the TV...)


Thanks!

Last edited by bsd107; 08-05-2016 at 12:30 PM.
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post #13506 of 13603 Old 08-05-2016, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bsd107 View Post
Can I use the Optical Out from the TV to achieve the same functionality?
Yes, optical from TV to AVR works for DD5.1 and is what I'm currently doing. Optical doesn't support some of the Bluray advanced audio formats (DD Plus, DTS HD, DTS TRUEHD etc) but I just hook my Bluray player directly to my AVR.
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post #13507 of 13603 Old 08-05-2016, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by teeitup View Post
Yes, optical from TV to AVR works for DD5.1 and is what I'm currently doing. Optical doesn't support some of the Bluray advanced audio formats (DD Plus, DTS HD, DTS TRUEHD etc) but I just hook my Bluray player directly to my AVR.


Thanks - do you know if it will pass through DTS5.1?


EDIT: I found in the manual that both ARC and the Optical Out support 2-channel PCM and DD5.1 (no mention of DTS).

Last edited by bsd107; 08-05-2016 at 06:28 PM.
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post #13508 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 02:48 PM
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Dumb question. I have the xbox one s and a 55 x900a along with a pioneer sc-99 hooked up to HDMI4. No matter what I do the 4k blu ray disk shows up as 1080p. I went to the 4k activation site and was able to successfully schedule an appt for 4k activation. Does this mean my HDMI port needs to be upgraded? Is there a site to check the serial number to see if its compatible? Even hooked it direct to the xbox and its still showing up as 1080p.
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post #13509 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by stevedabomb View Post
Dumb question. I have the xbox one s and a 55 x900a along with a pioneer sc-99 hooked up to HDMI4. No matter what I do the 4k blu ray disk shows up as 1080p. I went to the 4k activation site and was able to successfully schedule an appt for 4k activation. Does this mean my HDMI port needs to be upgraded? Is there a site to check the serial number to see if its compatible? Even hooked it direct to the xbox and its still showing up as 1080p.
The status display shows the resolution if the incoming signal, which is 1080p for a Blu-Ray disk. The panel's native resolution is 4K, so any input signal is automatically up-scaled to 4K. So you should not be concerned.
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post #13510 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The status display shows the resolution if the incoming signal, which is 1080p for a Blu-Ray disk. The panel's native resolution is 4K, so any input signal is automatically up-scaled to 4K. So you should not be concerned.


I normally would not be concerned but this is an UHD blu ray disk. Not a standard one. This was the whole reason I purchased the xbox one s for 4k streaming and the UHD player.
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post #13511 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by stevedabomb View Post
Dumb question. I have the xbox one s and a 55 x900a along with a pioneer sc-99 hooked up to HDMI4. No matter what I do the 4k blu ray disk shows up as 1080p. I went to the 4k activation site and was able to successfully schedule an appt for 4k activation. Does this mean my HDMI port needs to be upgraded? Is there a site to check the serial number to see if its compatible? Even hooked it direct to the xbox and its still showing up as 1080p.
I recommend doing the following:
1) remove your receiver from the equation. I.e. connect the Xbox One S directly to the TV's HDMI4, using the cable that came with the Xbox One S.
2) On the Xbox One S, in Settings > All settings > Display & sound > Video output. For "TV resolution" select "4K UHD".

That should work. Your TV will only briefly flash up the text on the screen verifying the mode change to 3840x2160 (once in 4K mode I cannot figure out how to pull that back up - hitting "Display" on the TV remote does nothing for me once I am in 4K mode, although this could be that it is sending the signal through HDMI-CEC to my receiver). Note that the Xbox One S, as far as I can tell, will always run in 4K once you set it into 4K UHD mode, upscaling everything to 4K. Even when you play a Blu-ray move that is 1080p, it will be upscaled by the Xbox One S to 4K.

Next, it is very interesting follow the xbox procedure for "Checking your TV's 4K and HDR capabilities on Xbox One S". To do this:
On your Xbox One S, select "Settings > All settings > Display & sound > Advanced video settings > 4K TV details". This will display a full screen of info.

You'll see a lot of warnings about 10-bit and HDR not being supported (which is not a good thing, but it is accurate as, hey, we have old TV's!). But in the first section, "TV resolution" it should show that the TV is capable of 4K UHD resolution at 60Hz.

The above will all verify that your TV can do 4K on HDMI4. What I do not know is whether this will verify that you have the HDCP2.2 upgrade on your HDMI4 port. My XBR-65X900A came with the HDCP2.2 on HDMI4 from the factory. My Xbox One S does not tell me one way or the other whether I have HDCP2.2, but I previously used a Roku4 on my HDMI4 and it did verify that I have HDCP2.2.
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post #13512 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:26 PM
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I may be wrong, but I thought I read that that Xbox does NOT pass 4k UHD signals to this Television...I might be wrong, but I am almost certain about that..
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post #13513 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:28 PM
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The xbox does display that and is to running in 4k mode. I verified that by hitting display. The issue arises when I go to play a 4k uhd disk or stream from Netflix. 4k never appears and the TV states a 1080p signal on a 4k disk. No hdcp error message so that's why I am wondering how I can tell. I thought based on my production date that I had it but I have yet to watch any native 4k content in over 3 years since owning this TV.
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post #13514 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:30 PM
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with Netflix, make sure you are paying the right price for the package that gives you 4k; plus, you have to log out and back in to Netflix this first time you are signed up for the "4k" package...
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post #13515 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bsd107 View Post
I recommend doing the following:

1) remove your receiver from the equation. I.e. connect the Xbox One S directly to the TV's HDMI4, using the cable that came with the Xbox One S.

2) On the Xbox One S, in Settings > All settings > Display & sound > Video output. For "TV resolution" select "4K UHD".



That should work. Your TV will only briefly flash up the text on the screen verifying the mode change to 3840x2160 (once in 4K mode I cannot figure out how to pull that back up - hitting "Display" on the TV remote does nothing for me once I am in 4K mode, although this could be that it is sending the signal through HDMI-CEC to my receiver). Note that the Xbox One S, as far as I can tell, will always run in 4K once you set it into 4K UHD mode, upscaling everything to 4K. Even when you play a Blu-ray move that is 1080p, it will be upscaled by the Xbox One S to 4K.



Next, it is very interesting follow the xbox procedure for "Checking your TV's 4K and HDR capabilities on Xbox One S". To do this:

On your Xbox One S, select "Settings > All settings > Display & sound > Advanced video settings > 4K TV details". This will display a full screen of info.



You'll see a lot of warnings about 10-bit and HDR not being supported (which is not a good thing, but it is accurate as, hey, we have old TV's!). But in the first section, "TV resolution" it should show that the TV is capable of 4K UHD resolution at 60Hz.



The above will all verify that your TV can do 4K on HDMI4. What I do not know is whether this will verify that you have the HDCP2.2 upgrade on your HDMI4 port. My XBR-65X900A came with the HDCP2.2 on HDMI4 from the factory. My Xbox One S does not tell me one way or the other whether I have HDCP2.2, but I previously used a Roku4 on my HDMI4 and it did verify that I have HDCP2.2.




Imaged literally appeared for 1 second and vanished. Managed to take a picture. Looks like I'm keeping my appt from Sony.
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post #13516 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:36 PM
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I may be wrong, but I thought I read that that Xbox does NOT pass 4k UHD signals to this Television...I might be wrong, but I am almost certain about that..


Xbox one s does. The original Xbox one does not. Also I do have the 4k Netflix plan. Turns out my TV needs the upgrade
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post #13517 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:37 PM
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I may be wrong, but I thought I read that that Xbox does NOT pass 4k UHD signals to this Television...I might be wrong, but I am almost certain about that..
That is also my understanding - anything on the HDMI INPUT on the Xbox One S can only go up to 1080p...
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post #13518 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:38 PM
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That is also my understanding - anything on the HDMI INPUT on the Xbox One S can only go up to 1080p...


I am only using hdmi output. I have the pioneer sc99 for everything else.
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post #13519 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by stevedabomb View Post


Imaged literally appeared for 1 second and vanished. Managed to take a picture. Looks like I'm keeping my appt from Sony.
Yeah - that settles it. Looks like you don't have HDCP 2.2....
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post #13520 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:39 PM
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Yeah - that settles it. Looks like you don't have HDCP 2.2....


Bah humbug lol
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post #13521 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:42 PM
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that sucks, hope the guy who does the board upgrade knows what he is doing..I thought all these TV's were fixed by now..
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post #13522 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 03:45 PM
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I made an appointment on that 4k activation site. Hopefully he breaks the TV so I can upgrade to an HDR model on sonys dime.
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post #13523 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by stevedabomb View Post
I made an appointment on that 4k activation site. Hopefully he breaks the TV so I can upgrade to an HDR model on sonys dime.
So, are you able to use the Xbox One S in "4K UHD", up until the point where you try to play some copy-protected content (e.g. 4K Blu-Ray, Netflix 4K, etc.)?

Just interesting to know whether it would work in 4K mode for gaming even without HDCP2.2 on the TV. (Not that it would be that useful, just interesting....)
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post #13524 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 06:37 PM
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All my games report 4k on the TV so I believe it's just copy protected material. The dashboard reports 4k as well. The odd part is that error message comes and goes so fast I never noticed it. Just kept wondering why 1080p was being reported.
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post #13525 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 06:38 PM
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Although I realize the xbox is just upconverting the games as there are no native ones yet or ever based on its hardware specs
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post #13526 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by stevedabomb View Post
All my games report 4k on the TV so I believe it's just copy protected material. The dashboard reports 4k as well. The odd part is that error message comes and goes so fast I never noticed it. Just kept wondering why 1080p was being reported.
So, you get everything in 4K (I.e. the Xbox home screen, games, etc.), but when you try to play a Blu-ray it swaps to 1080p output, and then back to 4K once you exit the Blu-ray app? That actually is very nice functionality - much better IMHO that it simply refusing to play the disc at all!
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post #13527 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 06:49 PM
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Although I realize the xbox is just upconverting the games as there are no native ones yet or ever based on its hardware specs
Yes. The advantage of the Xbox One S doing upscaling of everything to 4K is that there are no mode switches, which would cause black-screen delays on the TV when output resolution changed. This would make seamless transitions in the Xbox One interface impossible, frankly. Even on my Roku4 this was a PITA when watching Amazon 4K streaming content - pausing, skipping forward or back would cause a swap back to 1080p until playback resumed (apparently that Roku app can only run the app interface at 1080, despite the actual video stream itself being 4K), and of course the screen would go black for a bit as the TV resynced to the new resolution. We won't have to deal with that nonsense with the Xbox One S.

I have wondered, though, about standard 1080p Blu-Ray disc playback. I.e. the Xbox One S is doing the up-scale to 4K (assuming you have HDCP2.2), instead of the TV itself. I wonder which approach actually gives better results.

I did notice that text on the Xbox home screen seems to have better anti-aliasing when having the Xbox One S outputting 4K as compared to the Xbox One S outputting 1080p and having the TV upscale. I have no idea whether the Xbox One S is actually rendering the home screen natively in 4K, or rendering in 1080p and upscaling.

But, I still wonder, in our specific case of an expensive XBR-65X900A, which does the best upscaling of a 1080p Blu-ray source (the Xbox One S, or the TV). The Xbox One S is a lot newer, but the upscaling hardware in our XBR's is highly tuned specifically for our panels....
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post #13528 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 07:09 PM
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So, you get everything in 4K (I.e. the Xbox home screen, games, etc.), but when you try to play a Blu-ray it swaps to 1080p output, and then back to 4K once you exit the Blu-ray app? That actually is very nice functionality - much better IMHO that it simply refusing to play the disc at all!


I was under the impression no hdcp no video so I am kind of confused as well. Once the movie started playing I was like great I have hdcp. Then I checked my input source resolution and it showed 1080p/24.
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post #13529 of 13603 Old 08-13-2016, 07:09 PM
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I made an appointment on that 4k activation site. Hopefully he breaks the TV so I can upgrade to an HDR model on sonys dime.
I am not fan of Hollywood and their imposition of HDCP2.2. Looking on the bright side, at least Sony stood by this top-end TV (at the time) to some extent, giving a free upgrade to the HDCP2.2 at least on one port.

In contrast, I purchased TWO different Sony receivers (two different setups in different rooms) over a two year period, the DN1040 and the DN850, both of which support 4K/60p HDMI 2.0. Of course, in the end I discovered both AVR's to be useless once I actually acquired 4K sources, as NEITHER supports HDCP2.2. No free upgrade for those...
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Official Sony [X9] XBR-55X900A / XBR-65X900A Owner's Thread

I have an xbr850b in my basement but the 900a still beats it in picture quality. I actually debated on switching for a few.

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