Official Sony [X9] XBR-55X900A / XBR-65X900A Owner's Thread - Page 452 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13531 of 13532 Old 08-21-2016, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bsd107 View Post
Xbox One S with XBR-65X900A


Last night I replaced my Xbox One with a XBox One S. While it works, I have run into a few challenges.


My XBR-65X900A came from the factory with HDCP 2.2 on HDMI 4 (I have been using a Roku 4 successfully with Amazon 4K on this input so I know for sure that it works).


Right now I am using an older receiver (STR-DN1040) which annoyingly I purchased specifically as it supports 4K switching, but of course it came out before HDCP 2.2 so it is basically useless for switching actual 4K sources. Because of this, I have connected the Xbox One S directly to HDMI 4 on the TV. I am using a Sony flat HDMI "High Speed" cable that supports ARC and Ethernet.


- The Xbox One S does work in 4K on the HDMI4 connection. When I put the Xbox One S into 4K output mode, everything from the XBOS is upscaled to 4K. Everything. Interestingly, on the XBOS main menu the upscaler is doing a better job with the menu text than the built-in scalar in the TV. For example, a large capital "V" showed more staircasing if I set the XBOS to 1080p output (i.e. the TV upscales to 4K) than if I set the XBOS to 4K output. Now, back to "everything" - even when watching a 1080p Blu-ray disc, the XBOS upscales to 4K - it does not switch back to 1080p for disc playback. I don't actually know if the XBOS upscaler will be better for 1080p movies than the 65X900A upscaler, so I am not sure if that is a good thing or not. But what is does do is stop any annoying TV resolution switches from happening, so no more black screens for a few seconds like happens on my Roku 4 when it goes back and forth between it's native 1080p app menus and a 4K video stream.


- My AVR is connected to HDMI1, and the ARC is limiting the Xbox One S on HDMI 4 to stereo playback for some reason - I cannot force the Xbox One S into any surround modes for this reason, and I cannot activate bitstreaming. This is strange as when I had the Roku 4 on HDMI4 it could bitstream the older DD5.1 format back to the receiver through ARC. Apparently I will only be able to fix this problem by buying a new AVR (likely a STR-DN1070) which can pass through HDCP 2.2 and plugging my Xbox One S into that. The AVR would then be plugged into HDMI 4. But if my AVR is connected to HDMI 4, will it be able to receive ARC, as ARC is supported only on HDMI 1 on the 65X900A?


- The really bad news is that this TV will never support 4K gaming, probably on this or any future console. On the Xbox One S under "4K TV Details", the XBOS reports that while the TV does support "4K UHD (60Hz)", it also lists that it:
"
TV does NOT support (movies & TV):
4K 10-bit at 24Hz
4K 10-bit at 50Hz
4K 10-bit at 60Hz
HDR10 video


TV does NOT support (playing games):
Your TV setup does not support 4K 10-bit at 60Hz. You won't be able to play games at 4K.
Your TV setup doesn't support HDR10 for gaming. Games won't be shown in HDR
"


I went to the Sony support site and pulled up the specs from the latest firmware for the 65X900a. It states the following:
"Provides HDMI® 2.0 compatibility (Applies to 4K models only)
Supports 4K 60p (3840X2160p (59.94/60Hz) YCbCr 4:2:0 8bit, 4096X2160p (59.94/60Hz) YCbCr 4:2:0 8bit)"


Microsoft's support site lists on a page entitled "4K on Xbox One S technical requirements":
"
TV resolution
Your TV must support the following requirements in order to upscale the system and non-native content to 4K:

Feature
Requirements
4K @ 60 Hz
Resolution: 3840 x 2160p
Refresh rate: 60 Hz

Watching movies & TV
Your TV must support the following requirements to switch to specific 4K or HDR modes on demand for movie and TV content:

Feature
Requirements
4K @ 24 Hz
Resolution: 3840 x 2160p
Refresh rate: 24 Hz
Color depth: 30 bits per pixel (10-bit)
Pixel encoding: 4:4:4
4K @ 50 Hz
Resolution: 3840 x 2160p
Refresh rate: 50 Hz
Color depth: 30 bits per pixel (10-bit)
Pixel encoding: 4:2:0
4K @ 60 Hz
Resolution: 3840 x 2160p
Refresh rate: 60 Hz
Color depth: 30 bits per pixel (10-bit)
Pixel encoding: 4:2:0
HDR
Your TV must support the HDR10 media profile:
  • BT2020 color space or gamut
  • High Dynamic Range (ST2084)
Some TV manufacturers may call this something else. For example, "HDR Premium" or "Ultra HD Premium."

Playing games

Your TV must support the following requirements to switch to 4K or HDR on demand for games:

Feature
Requirements
4K @ 60 Hz
Resolution: 3840 x 2160p
Refresh rate: 60 Hz
Color depth: 30 bits per pixel (10-bit)
Pixel encoding: 4:2:0
HDR
Your TV must support the HDR10 media profile:
  • BT2020 color space or gamut
  • High Dynamic Range (ST2084)
Some TV manufacturers may call this something else. For example, "HDR Premium" or "Ultra HD Premium."



"


NOTICE how all of the modes in the technical requirements state that 10-bit color depth is required, while the Sony support site states that (at least at 60P) only 8-bit is supported.


I now realize that while I did successfully get upscaling of the Xbox One S menus and games and 1080p Blu-Ray video to work fine in 4K. I have played one Netflix 4K video from the app on the XBox One S and it played fine. I have not yet tested a true 4K Blu-Ray disc yet. My assumption is that as long as the source material is in 8-bit I will be fine. I don't know how common 10-bit sources are, yet.


BUT, the terrible news is that appears this TV will apparently never be compatible with 4K gaming (this console, and more importantly future actual 4K gaming consoles) as it does not support the proper modes. That sucks....
Don't know if this makes any difference but when using 4k resolutions with this TV, like using a computer, it won't display 2160p (like it does with 1080p) when pressing display but it will display 3840x2160p.
In 1080p mode if you change the bit depth in Nvidia Control panel it will show 10bit, 12bit when pressing display.
The same won't work with 4k resolutions.

Still, I'm able to switch from 8 bit to 12 bpc @ 60hz.
Of course limited to 4:2:0 because of chroma subsampling needed for this frequency.
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post #13532 of 13532 Unread Today, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by veggav View Post
In 1080p mode if you change the bit depth in Nvidia Control panel it will show 10bit, 12bit when pressing display.
The same won't work with 4k resolutions.

Still, I'm able to switch from 8 bit to 12 bpc @ 60hz.
Of course limited to 4:2:0 because of chroma subsampling needed for this frequency.
This is interesting to know - to be clear are you saying that the TV will accept a 4K/60p signal with 12-bit color info?

That is actually a specific question that I had, as I noticed last night that since the recent XBox One S operating system update (in the last two weeks - newer than the OS it updated to when receiving at launch) provides better information about what signals the TV will accept. I will update my prior post with this info. (Basically, the XBox One S used to only report under what conditions the TV will not accept a 10-bit color signal under certain conditions. Now it adds additional info by clarifying that it will actually accept an 8-bit color signal.)

What first got me to check this is that, although I had the XBox One S set to 4K resolution since I received it, last night I started watching a 1080p blu-ray disc (HBO's Deadwood), and noticed the TV switching from "3840x2160p" mode to "1080p/24" mode. When I stopped the blu-ray playback, the TV switched back to "3840x2160". So, while the original OS was up-scaling the blu-ray 1080p/24 playback to 4K, this newer OS is now switching the output to 1080/24 when playing a disc with that format.

I verified the XBox One S system settings (I had set 4K output, 12-bit, 24Hz support enabled), and then read the Help info available there, which as also been updated with the new OS. According to this, you have the option of setting the XBox One S to 1080p or 720p output in the case that you prefer to have games upscaled to 4K by the TV instead. Even if you do this, again according to the help system, when you use any 4K source from an app (like Netflix in 4K or Amazon in 4K) or UHD blu-ray playback, the TV will automatically switch from your chosen 720p or 1080p default up to 4K to play the media.

This is actually a pretty nice feature. When I first got the XBox One S and started using it in 4K mode, it occurred to me that for playback of good quality Blu-Ray 1080p sources, the upscaler in the TV might be of better quality than that in the XBox One S. I am not sure about this, especially as our sets are now a few years old, but Sony of course tuned the upscaler specifically for our XBR sets, so I am guessing that it is better. Anyway, I was happy to see that we have the options of outputting in 1080p all the time for sources where that makes sense and letting the TV upscale, and the XBox One S will automatically use 4K output when a true 4K source is selected. Nice!

Anyway, I have some questions about the color depth support of our XBR-65X900A sets:

1) The TV will accept, and reports on the screen, 1080p 12-bit. What is the true color depth capability of the LCD panel?

2) What is the actual color depth that the TV will accept for 4K/30 and 4K/60? This is not clear as the color depth is not reported on screen when in 4K mode. My XBox One S, with the latest OS, reports "Your TV setup doesn't support 4K 10-bit at 24Hz/60Hz. However, apps can use 4K 8-bit, if they support it". (I have the XBox One S set to 12-bit output and it does not complain....)

Given answers to the above what is the best output to use for games? I know that XBone games max out at 1080p (and typically internally rendered at 900p before upscaling to 1080p). I have noticed that, at least when in the XBox TV setting menu, the text looks better (better anti-aliasing) when I have the XBox One S set to 4K as compared to 1080p output - i.e. the upscaler in the XBone is doing a better job than the one built into the TV.
But, if I have the XBox One S upscaling games to 4K, am I also limiting the color depth? I.e. if I game with the XBone set to 1080p am I getting 12-bit color output, whereas having the XBone upscale games to 4K will I be limiting color output to 8-bit and affecting color depth?

Just trying to figure out the best approach for 1080p sources - use the XBox One S to upscale or rely on the TV....
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