Anti reflective coatings are the bane of the TV world today. This needs to stop. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 07-29-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Backlight leakage and banding in the LCD panel are the two most discussed problems with LCD tvs today. However, I think there is another problem that probably deserves even more discussion and hate, and that is "the dirty screen effect".

Pretty much every single TV maker today has decided to coat their screens with a chemical mix that is supposed to decrease reflections. This coating ends up doing very little to improve reflections, while it has the horribly unfortunate side effect of putting a dirty looking layer of filth between your eyes and the content the TV is displaying. This is so distracting I'm amazed more people don't have a problem with it.

In 2011 I was on a quest to find a TV that didn't suffer from this problem, and had a low enough input lag that I could happily play games on it. I found that TV in the Panasonic D30 LED/LCD. This TV had absolutely no coating applied to it's screen, and the images are fantastically clear because of it. The only downside with this TV is that they only made it in 42 inch sizes.

So this year I'm hoping to replace it with a larger TV, and unfortunately I've now learned even Panasonic has decided to apply these "anti reflective" coatings to their TVs. Of course the results are utter crap. Reflections are still everywhere to be seen, AND now you've got this ugly filth everywhere you look.

Sony and Samsung are actually worse when it comes to this coating, as their coatings seem to be using and even darker compound that makes things look even "dirtier". I recently bought a Sony 802a TV and it was a mess. Returned it for another one, and the problem was exactly the same.

So when is the TV world going to smarten up and realize these coatings are doing absolutely no good for anyone, and they're actually greatly crapping up the image quality of these TVs.

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post #2 of 11 Old 07-29-2013, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerriot View Post

Backlight leakage and banding in the LCD panel are the two most discussed problems with LCD tvs today. However, I think there is another problem that probably deserves even more discussion and hate, and that is "the dirty screen effect".

Pretty much every single TV maker today has decided to coat their screens with a chemical mix that is supposed to decrease reflections. This coating ends up doing very little to improve reflections, while it has the horribly unfortunate side effect of putting a dirty looking layer of filth between your eyes and the content the TV is displaying. This is so distracting I'm amazed more people don't have a problem with it.

In 2011 I was on a quest to find a TV that didn't suffer from this problem, and had a low enough input lag that I could happily play games on it. I found that TV in the Panasonic D30 LED/LCD. This TV had absolutely no coating applied to it's screen, and the images are fantastically clear because of it. The only downside with this TV is that they only made it in 42 inch sizes.

So this year I'm hoping to replace it with a larger TV, and unfortunately I've now learned even Panasonic has decided to apply these "anti reflective" coatings to their TVs. Of course the results are utter crap. Reflections are still everywhere to be seen, AND now you've got this ugly filth everywhere you look.

Sony and Samsung are actually worse when it comes to this coating, as their coatings seem to be using and even darker compound that makes things look even "dirtier". I recently bought a Sony 802a TV and it was a mess. Returned it for another one, and the problem was exactly the same.

So when is the TV world going to smarten up and realize these coatings are doing absolutely no good for anyone, and they're actually greatly crapping up the image quality of these TVs.

I am with you on that one. We have 5 Vizio's in the house and the latest one, a M3D470KD has some sort of film like coating on the panel that is only visible with the set off and lights on or from the side with the blinds open on a sliding glass door. I know there is a lot of complaint's about glossy screens, but I like the mirror like finish. We have a 65 inch Visio in the living room that looks real glitzy on or off, and on the reflections are not noticeable, but the 47 inch just looks dirty to me, and the reflections are still there with coating, and with set off I can see the coating. We keep our environment as dust free as possible because of allergies so any dirty looking screens show up and stand out led in a blackout.
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post #3 of 11 Old 07-29-2013, 09:13 AM
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Just curious but how do you clean your panels? Do you use any type of panel cleaner other than distilled water? Some commercial cleaners (of which I would never use) can react with the coatings over time.
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post #4 of 11 Old 07-29-2013, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Phil17108 View Post

I am with you on that one. We have 5 Vizio's in the house and the latest one, a M3D470KD has some sort of film like coating on the panel that is only visible with the set off and lights on or from the side with the blinds open on a sliding glass door. I know there is a lot of complaint's about glossy screens, but I like the mirror like finish. We have a 65 inch Visio in the living room that looks real glitzy on or off, and on the reflections are not noticeable, but the 47 inch just looks dirty to me, and the reflections are still there with coating, and with set off I can see the coating. We keep our environment as dust free as possible because of allergies so any dirty looking screens show up and stand out led in a blackout.

That is the real joke of these manufacturers applying these coatings to begin with. They don't work!

I've directly compared my Panasonic from 2011, with no coating at all, to this brand new Sony from 2013, and the Sony is no better at dealing with reflections even though it has this coating applied to it's screen. So you've got no benefit, and the big fat negative of having this dirty screen effect visible nearly every second you're watching content on the screen.

I'm dumbfounded by what prompts these companies to continue to use this technique. I guess people just like thinking they've made some attempt at curbing reflections.

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post #5 of 11 Old 07-29-2013, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Just curious but how do you clean your panels? Do you use any type of panel cleaner other than distilled water? Some commercial cleaners (of which I would never use) can react with the coatings over time.

In this case it was there from the get go. I use a cleaner from Monoprice that is for panels and microfiber cloth to clean everything but the dishes and the floors. As a mater of fact most of the time we just dust with the microfiber cloth. I am also in the classic car hobby and thats where you really become aware of what is used on a finnish.
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post #6 of 11 Old 07-29-2013, 12:40 PM
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FWIW, I wouldn't use anything on a panel but warm, distilled water and a high quality microfiber cloth. For weekly dusting, I use a non-scented, dry, Swifter-Sweeper refill. It's unfortunate that it was there from the beginning. Normally I'd suspect it was a Vizio QA problem but I see another poster has the same perceived issue with his Panasonic. My LG has a matte finish which has worked very well without any loss of pq at all (DSE, streaking, etc). But yeah, it would be nice if the industry didn't have to use the anti-reflective coatings to cut glare down.
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post #7 of 11 Old 07-29-2013, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

FWIW, I wouldn't use anything on a panel but warm, distilled water and a high quality microfiber cloth. For weekly dusting, I use a non-scented, dry, Swifter-Sweeper refill. It's unfortunate that it was there from the beginning. Normally I'd suspect it was a Vizio QA problem but I see another poster has the same perceived issue with his Panasonic. My LG has a matte finish which has worked very well without any loss of pq at all (DSE, streaking, etc). But yeah, it would be nice if the industry didn't have to use the anti-reflective coatings to cut glare down.

In regards to the Sony model I mentioned in the original post, this dirty screen problem has nothing to do with cleaning the screen. It's about the anti reflective coating they apply during the manufacturing process.

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post #8 of 11 Old 07-29-2013, 01:28 PM
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I'm not positive what your talking about but all my LCDs, purchased from '07 and on, have a matt screen. I tried a Panasonic plasma but returned it and the glossy screen that caught every reflection was one of the reasons. My newer HP laptop has a glossy screen that I hate, again it catches every reflection. Sure it looks great in a dark room but outside and I can hardly see the screen for the reflections.
Now if your talking about something else applied to a screen I don't think I'd like it, makes cleaning terrible and don't really help. The only time I've seen this coating was on camera lenses and a pair of glasses I had for a few days, before I returned them because again they didn't seem to help for reflections and they made cleaning all but impossible.
Are you talking about that type of coating or just a mat screen? A mat screen is easy to clean with just distilled water and a clean cloth, as Otto said, a glossy screen is even easier to clean with the same.
BTW I have Sony, LG, Samsung, Vizio LCDs and again all have a mat screen smile.gif
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post #9 of 11 Old 07-29-2013, 11:29 PM
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It's unfortunate that it was there from the beginning.
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post #10 of 11 Old 07-30-2013, 04:41 AM
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Yes I have a huge problem with this, it seems like around 2011 most panels were made of pure gloss.

Certain glossy screens produce much brighter and more vibrant colors and better blacks.

If you have a problem with reflections turn off your lights and cover your windows.

The blurry filter that manufactures are slapping onto TV's are useless, all they do is make the reflections fuzzy instead of clear.
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post #11 of 11 Old 07-30-2013, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerriot View Post

That is the real joke of these manufacturers applying these coatings to begin with. They don't work!

I've directly compared my Panasonic from 2011, with no coating at all, to this brand new Sony from 2013, and the Sony is no better at dealing with reflections even though it has this coating applied to it's screen. So you've got no benefit, and the big fat negative of having this dirty screen effect visible nearly every second you're watching content on the screen.

I'm dumbfounded by what prompts these companies to continue to use this technique. I guess people just like thinking they've made some attempt at curbing reflections.

Yes, I wish all TV's would look like the panasonic D30/DT30 from 2011.

The blacks looked inky when the lights were on.

I've even heard of some PC gamers peeling off the dumb filter on certain monitors.
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