Official Panasonic TC-LxxE60,TC-5xLE64 & TC-LxxEM60 Owners' Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 271 Old 11-02-2013, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Couchy View Post

Watched a little qualifying this morning.smile.gif IMG_20131102_210629_771.jpg 2097k .jpg file
How are you liking the TV? how would you say it compares to a plasma blacks wise?

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post #92 of 271 Old 11-03-2013, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

How are you liking the TV? how would you say it compares to a plasma blacks wise?
As my sole tv for the last there years was a plasma, I think it handles blacks well. Much better than some reviews say.

I keep my dark setting set to dark. Not sure why all the various calibrations set it to light. Having it set to dark makes the picture better in my eyes.
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post #93 of 271 Old 11-03-2013, 07:23 AM
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what made you switch from Plasma?

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post #94 of 271 Old 11-03-2013, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

what made you switch from Plasma?
Just to give it a try really. I also changed my mind from going to get a top of the line tv, to a budget model.

Plasma will always be superior to me for the more natural picture.
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post #95 of 271 Old 11-03-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

Oh btw did you consider the Panny Plasma? s60 or 64?

FWIW, I am now in this thread after just buying a 60S60 and not being satisfied at all with the picture. I've had it for a few days now. The problem is that whenever there is a lot of white in the picture, the TV will dim itself to the point that faces look dull and lifeless. I think it's called ABL, and most or all plasmas have it. My prior TV was a 6 year old Toshiba plasma, which had a nice bright picture and did not seem to have the dimming problem, but it finally died on me.

This TV is mounted on the wall across from the bed in our bedroom, so the TV will actually be a couple feet above our eye level while lying in the bed. This means our line of sight will be maybe 10 to 15 degrees below perpendicular to the TV. I know LED TVs do not have the viewing angle of plasmas, but with the LED model, will we lose image quality by being below the level of the TV by that amount?

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post #96 of 271 Old 11-04-2013, 06:10 AM
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Most LED seem to be poor off angle viewing & you can get clouding along with corner smudging or flashlighting ...

There really is no comparison to Plasmsa - though that s60 is a mirror & tends to be dim without agc adjustment .

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post #97 of 271 Old 11-04-2013, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

Most LED seem to be poor off angle viewing & you can get clouding along with corner smudging or flashlighting ...

There really is no comparison to Plasmsa - though that s60 is a mirror & tends to be dim without agc adjustment .

OK, but as I stated in my post, this TV is located straight across the room from the bed, so our view is straight to the TV. Also, I have a 60S60 in the room right now, and I have tried all the suggested settings in the S60 thread, and the picture is still dim watching TV, particularly whenever light colored info banners are displayed across the bottom or the side of the screen, in which case the rest of the image is dimmed considerably. At that point, people's faces are dull and lifeless looking.

As to "flash lighting", the reviews I read on this LED seemed to say that owners did NOT see much of it. If anybody has experience specific to this TV I'd greatly appreciate it.

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post #98 of 271 Old 11-04-2013, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Rexcellent View Post

Hello AVS Forum Members,

"Long time listener, first time caller."

I just picked up the TC-L58E60 from BB on Monday. I've been shopping for a new TV for the past 4 months, and I finally pulled the trigger. I must say, I am very happy with the 58" Panny so far. My only disappointment is that it has no swivel screen, but I knew that going in. I've been following this thread, and I was aware of the DSE issue. However, if I had not followed this thread, I don't think I would have ever noticed. smile.gif

Anyway, I would like to get some opinions. I've tried to take pictures of my screen to capture the DSE effect, which I would describe as faint gradient shifts when displaying a single solid color. I think the fullscreen images capture the effect well, but it may be harder to see on the smaller renderings below. What do you think? Would you consider this "good", "bad", or "normal"?

In my regular viewing environment, I hardly notice the DSE. I mean how often do I sit in the dark and stare at a single color on a television? wink.gif




That looks about what mine looks like too. Like you pointed out, I don't really notice it during typical TV watching. Much like you, I have to really be watching for it to notice or care.
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post #99 of 271 Old 11-04-2013, 08:32 AM
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I gave up looking for flaws a long time ago. It just really ruins the experience. I very much enjoy the TC-L58E60. I think the picture is great. Sure, you can find something if you look for it, but when you do ... is it really that bad??
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post #100 of 271 Old 11-04-2013, 09:46 AM
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Just bought the TC-L50E60 from Costco yesterday - pretty good deal at $700.

 

At first the TV seemed a little off/too dim, but I went to the picture settings and started from 'Cinema' and tweaked - now it looks great! As for gaming, I played an hour or two of Dishonored on the 360 with 'Game Mode' on, wasn't able to detect any lag.

 

Has anyone messed with the Advanced Picture settings or have a config to share?

 

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post #101 of 271 Old 11-04-2013, 11:28 AM
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That TV looks bigger than 50'

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post #102 of 271 Old 11-04-2013, 12:26 PM
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Just ordered the TC-L58E60 after reading all the positive reviews. Anyone care to share their settings? I've printed out David Katzmaier's settings off Cnet & will start with his recommendations. Has anyone used his & are you happy with them?
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post #103 of 271 Old 11-04-2013, 12:52 PM
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I used the settings from the post I shared earlier in this thread.
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post #104 of 271 Old 11-04-2013, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan.crouthamel View Post

I used the settings from the post I shared earlier in this thread.

Dan, I searched thru your posts & not finding where you posted your settings. Could you give me a link? Thanks.

Terry
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post #105 of 271 Old 11-04-2013, 02:25 PM
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@garath and dan.crouthamel - Thanks for the replies. I'll look into the Single Tier XL Swivel. If there's one thing that AVSForum.com has taught me, it's that every piece of modern technology has one glaring flaw or another. The trick is to find something you'll enjoy within your own guidelines. I think I've come close this purchase.

@RicFlair - I've started PC gaming on the TC-L58E60 using an Xbox Controller. I'm playing Fallout:New Vegas at 1080p, and it looks noticeably better than my old 720p screen. The game itself is not a twitchy first-person-shooter, but I do notice some input lag with "Game Mode: Off" vs. "Game Mode: On". I'll be playing some online matches a little this week, so I'll post an update.

@tjdean, et al. - I started using the settings I found on "lcdtvbuyingguide". cnet's settings are slightly different, and since I'm in massive "tweaking" mode right now, I will probably give their settings a try to see which ones I like better.

Cheers Everyone.
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post #106 of 271 Old 11-04-2013, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan.crouthamel View Post

I started with the settings defined below in the link and modified from there. I found that these settings are pretty close to the built in Cinema profile, which is what I liked best out of the box anyway. I noticed though that the Standard profile gives that "soap" opera look, if that makes sense. I think it's the motion blur reduction settings that give it that look. The settings below have all the fancy image processing type settings turned off (e.g., Vivid, A.I., etc.)

Panasonic E60 Series Picture Settings and Calibration

Calibration settings above. This is what I started from, and tweaked to my liking. I bumped up the backlight. It was too dim for me. I think when they do their calibration the room is typically dark.
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post #107 of 271 Old 11-05-2013, 06:36 AM
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Is this TV a legit 120 MHZ TV?

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post #108 of 271 Old 11-05-2013, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

Is this TV a legit 120 MHZ TV?

According to David Katzmaier at Cnet it is. I've copied his comment below from his review of the E60:

Another picture-quality perk over typical entry-level models is a 120Hz refresh rate. While many TVs in its price range resort to refresh rate fakery, the E60 seems to legitimately be a 120Hz TV
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post #109 of 271 Old 11-05-2013, 09:56 AM
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I saw this TV today and what it appears to me is ; dry. Like the colors are a bit flat am I right?

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post #110 of 271 Old 11-05-2013, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

I saw this TV today and what it appears to me is ; dry. Like the colors are a bit flat am I right?

Not to me. I think the colors look great. I'll see if I can take a picture tonight and share.
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post #111 of 271 Old 11-05-2013, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by tjdean View Post

Just ordered the TC-L58E60 after reading all the positive reviews. Anyone care to share their settings? I've printed out David Katzmaier's settings off Cnet & will start with his recommendations. Has anyone used his & are you happy with them?

I'm using the CNET settings except I've bumped up backlight 20 points for my every day watching. I agree with the sentiment that the calibrated settings are typically for a dark room. I do 95% of my TV watching with the lights on.

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-600379/panasonic-tc-50le60-picture-settings/

I actually have to double check my backlight settings actually. I thought CNET's were lower.
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post #112 of 271 Old 11-05-2013, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dan.crouthamel View Post

Calibration settings above. This is what I started from, and tweaked to my liking. I bumped up the backlight. It was too dim for me. I think when they do their calibration the room is typically dark.
This is what's unique about tv's to me in general. I think the lcdtvbuyingguide website were good and no brightness needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

I saw this TV today and what it appears to me is ; dry. Like the colors are a bit flat am I right?
Not that way to me. Again, one of those bizarre differences in what I see and you see.
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post #113 of 271 Old 11-06-2013, 07:46 AM
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After calibrating the HDMI1 input port with http://reviews.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/panasonic-lcd-tv/panasonic-e60-picture-settings.html (settings for this TV,) I copied the settings to the other inputs using the menu's copy function. Now, the picture is great.

Note that the settings should be made while in the Custom Picture Mode as this is the only place that the more advanced settings can be applied.
You can then go the other picture modes (ie Vivid or Standard) and tweek them to your liking for sports or room brightness by adjusting the first 13 settings.


Post Calibration Settings

Picture Mode Custom
Back Light 60
Contrast 83
Brightness +5
Color 47
Tint 0
Sharpness 0
Color Temp Warm2
Vivid Color Off
A.I. Picture Off
CATS Off
Video NR Off
MPEG NR Off
Motion Picture Setting Off



Color Detail Adjustment

Red Hue 0
Red Saturation 0
Red Luminance 0
Green Hue 0
Green Saturation 0
Green Luminance 0
Blue Hue 0
Blue Saturation 0
Blue Luminance 0



Pro Settings

Panel Brightness Mid
AGC 0
Black Extension 0
Cool White Effect 0



Advanced Picture

Game Mode Off
3:2 Pulldown n/a
1080 Pixel Direct n/a
HDMI Content Type Auto
HDMI/DVI RGB Range Standard (16-235)
Black Level Light


W/B Adjustment

W/B High Red 1
W/B High Green 2
W/B High Blue 0
W/B Low Red -3
W/B Low Green -1
W/B Low Blue 1



More Detail Adjustment

IRE Red Green Blue
10 8 2 -48
20 0 0 -6
30 0 0 -1
40 0 -3 0
50 0 0 0
60 -12 2 0
70 -7 0 13
80 0 2 0
90 19 0 0
100 -45 20 -34



Gamma (Target 2.2)

IRE Gain
10 5
20 43
30 50
40 50
50 53
60 33
70 34
80 1
90 2
100 0


It's said that this TV doesn't have an IPS panel. Not to worry. I have mine in the middle of the long wall of a 20x15 room and viewing from a far corner is great.
Black levels are superb too.

My only complaint is noticeable DSE on some solid color screens - especially darker blue. But like someone said, who watches these?
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post #114 of 271 Old 11-06-2013, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

OK, but as I stated in my post, this TV is located straight across the room from the bed, so our view is straight to the TV. Also, I have a 60S60 in the room right now, and I have tried all the suggested settings in the S60 thread, and the picture is still dim watching TV, particularly whenever light colored info banners are displayed across the bottom or the side of the screen, in which case the rest of the image is dimmed considerably. At that point, people's faces are dull and lifeless looking.

As to "flash lighting", the reviews I read on this LED seemed to say that owners did NOT see much of it. If anybody has experience specific to this TV I'd greatly appreciate it.
I'll try to remember to take some photos of darker screens this weekend. I have not seen any noticeable flashlighting.

By comparison, every best buy i've gone into and looked at the Samsung F8000, they all had flashlighting. What I would consider pretty bad too.
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post #115 of 271 Old 11-06-2013, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

OK, but as I stated in my post, this TV is located straight across the room from the bed, so our view is straight to the TV. Also, I have a 60S60 in the room right now, and I have tried all the suggested settings in the S60 thread, and the picture is still dim watching TV, particularly whenever light colored info banners are displayed across the bottom or the side of the screen, in which case the rest of the image is dimmed considerably. At that point, people's faces are dull and lifeless looking.

As to "flash lighting", the reviews I read on this LED seemed to say that owners did NOT see much of it. If anybody has experience specific to this TV I'd greatly appreciate it.

Mtrot, I have the 58 inch version and have no problem with flashlighting. On a dark or white screen you can see uneven lighting, or clouds, across the screen> Unlike flashlighting, this is not noticeable in normal viewing. There is also a blue cast in dark scenes, an effect that was pointed out in some reviews. We are delighted with the TV and will take the clouds and blue in the dark scenes over the reflectivity of a plasma. I used Digital Video Essentials to set brightness, and shadow detail is quite good with a brightness setting of +1. For the money this is a real winner.

I have noticed choppy motion when streaming British TV shows on Netflix. I don't know what causes this but, a setting of mid on motion setting clears it up pretty well.
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post #116 of 271 Old 11-06-2013, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew Black View Post

Mtrot, I have the 58 inch version and have no problem with flashlighting. On a dark or white screen you can see uneven lighting, or clouds, across the screen> Unlike flashlighting, this is not noticeable in normal viewing. There is also a blue cast in dark scenes, an effect that was pointed out in some reviews. We are delighted with the TV and will take the clouds and blue in the dark scenes over the reflectivity of a plasma. I used Digital Video Essentials to set brightness, and shadow detail is quite good with a brightness setting of +1. For the money this is a real winner.

I have noticed chopping motion when streaming British TV shows on Netflix. I don't know what causes this but, a setting of mid on motion setting clears it up pretty well.

Thanks, I today contacted Amazon to return the 60S60 plasma, which I just could not get a satisfying picture out of. Maybe my nearly 60 year old eyes simply need more light than the S60 can deliver. My question now is, do I try a different and brighter plasma, or go with this 58" Panasonic LED?

I went to BB and they had the TC-L58E60 on display right beside a more expensive Samsung LED and the TC-L58E60 was darn close in picture quality. I really liked the Samsung 7100 series, but that runs around $600 higher in price. Decisions, decisions......

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post #117 of 271 Old 11-07-2013, 05:09 AM
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I went to BestBuy back in September buy the Samsung 7100. It was also on display next to the Panasonic 58E60. I walked out with the Panny smile.gif 3D wasn't really of interest to me and the picture looked better than the Samsung. I don't regret the decision.

You'll be happy regardless of what set you buy. Is the Samsung really worth that much more? I don't think so.
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post #118 of 271 Old 11-07-2013, 12:13 PM
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"I went to BB and they had the TC-L58E60 on display right beside a more expensive Samsung LED and the TC-L58E60 was darn close in picture quality. I really liked the Samsung 7100 series, but that runs around $600 higher in price. Decisions, decisions......"

You also might compare the reflectivity of the Samsung and Panasonic screens, If you are watching in the bedroom with table lamps on, I would think that would be an issue.
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post #119 of 271 Old 11-07-2013, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Couchy View Post

As my sole tv for the last there years was a plasma, I think it handles blacks well. Much better than some reviews say.

I keep my dark setting set to dark. Not sure why all the various calibrations set it to light. Having it set to dark makes the picture better in my eyes.

Couchy, Which size panel do you have? I tried the dark setting and found two problems: black crush and also a huge increase in the clouding effect. Adjusting the brightness with Video Essentials pluge test helped some with the black crush, but the clouding was so bad I took the first set back, thinking the panel was defective. Using the light setting seems counter-intuitive when we are looking for good black levels, but the calibrators ended up there also. When I went to the light setting I was able to get a good picture. I have the 58 inch panel and wonder if you have the 50 inch. Lew
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post #120 of 271 Old 11-07-2013, 06:09 PM
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Couchy, Which size panel do you have? I tried the dark setting and found two problems: black crush and also a huge increase in the clouding effect. Adjusting the brightness with Video Essentials pluge test helped some with the black crush, but the clouding was so bad I took the first set back, thinking the panel was defective. Using the light setting seems counter-intuitive when we are looking for good black levels, but the calibrators ended up there also. When I went to the light setting I was able to get a good picture. I have the 58 inch panel and wonder if you have the 50 inch. Lew
55". But keep in mind, mine is the ET60 and not the E60. I'm still not entirely sure what the exact difference is other than the 720 backlighting while the "E" has the 240.

Perhaps there is some "black crush", but I'm still not entirely sure what that is. Everything seems pretty defined in darker scenes. I have never watched any movies on this tv nor played video games, so I have no reference for those.

When I first used the setting from lcdtvbuying, I accidentally used their E60 settings. It looked nice, but it was off a bit. Retooled with the correct settings and much better. Still could probably use a few adjustments here and there, but I'm starting to think some of it is just based on broadcast differences.

My choice in using dark is purely based on what my eyes like. It may not be the professional choice, but their not watching my tv everyday.cool.gif
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