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post #1 of 42 Old 09-14-2013, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Greetings,

I recently purchased a Samsung 60 inch F6300 LED. Very shortly after I noticed severe ghosting on dark objects. I noticed this most while playing video games like Dark Souls or watching 2d animated movies. In the games in was a very visible smear while in the 2d animated it was a trailing ghost. This only occurred when it was a black or dark colored image changing to something lighter.

The funny thing is that the issue seems to go away slightly if I set the brightness to 50. 60 brightness and it is almost completely gone but then the screen is washed out. I exchanged the TV for a different one thinking that it may just be a problem with the first set but the second F6300 has the exact same issue.

Any thoughts on if this is something that can be fixed via firmware or if it is a problem with the panel? I heard a rumor that all 60inch Samsung panels are manufactured by sharp so maybe that's the problem. Any opinions or thoughts on this are appreciated. Thanks
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post #2 of 42 Old 09-14-2013, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Nibel85 View Post

Greetings,

I recently purchased a Samsung 60 inch F6300 LED. Very shortly after I noticed severe ghosting on dark objects. I noticed this most while playing video games like Dark Souls or watching 2d animated movies. In the games in was a very visible smear while in the 2d animated it was a trailing ghost. This only occurred when it was a black or dark colored image changing to something lighter.

The funny thing is that the issue seems to go away slightly if I set the brightness to 50. 60 brightness and it is almost completely gone but then the screen is washed out. I exchanged the TV for a different one thinking that it may just be a problem with the first set but the second F6300 has the exact same issue.

Any thoughts on if this is something that can be fixed via firmware or if it is a problem with the panel? I heard a rumor that all 60inch Samsung panels are manufactured by sharp so maybe that's the problem. Any opinions or thoughts on this are appreciated. Thanks

do you have a Hxxx panel (Sharp)?

is the ghosting blue/purple in color?
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post #3 of 42 Old 09-14-2013, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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The version number is HS01 if that is what you are looking for.

The ghosting is brownish in the 2d films I noticed it in. In Dark Souls for PS3 and the Avenger's Blu Ray it is a black smear.

Seems almost like the TV has trouble turning the pixels to black and bringing them back out.
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post #4 of 42 Old 09-15-2013, 10:44 AM
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The version number is HS01 if that is what you are looking for.

The ghosting is brownish in the 2d films I noticed it in. In Dark Souls for PS3 and the Avenger's Blu Ray it is a black smear.

Seems almost like the TV has trouble turning the pixels to black and bringing them back out.

well, that is a Sharp panel (though usually the ghosting takes on a blue-purplish halo look around fast moving objects)

in any case if you can get a Samsung panel (Txxx), you might find that it doesn't suffer from this issue (though that will likely be in the 55" size, not 60")
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post #5 of 42 Old 09-15-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Nibel85 View Post

Greetings,

I recently purchased a Samsung 60 inch F6300 LED. Very shortly after I noticed severe ghosting on dark objects. I noticed this most while playing video games like Dark Souls or watching 2d animated movies. In the games in was a very visible smear while in the 2d animated it was a trailing ghost. This only occurred when it was a black or dark colored image changing to something lighter.

The funny thing is that the issue seems to go away slightly if I set the brightness to 50. 60 brightness and it is almost completely gone but then the screen is washed out. I exchanged the TV for a different one thinking that it may just be a problem with the first set but the second F6300 has the exact same issue.

Any thoughts on if this is something that can be fixed via firmware or if it is a problem with the panel? I heard a rumor that all 60inch Samsung panels are manufactured by sharp so maybe that's the problem. Any opinions or thoughts on this are appreciated. Thanks

I have the F6300 and have played Avengers Blu Ray, Sound of Music Blu Ray, 4K mastered Ghostbusters Blu Ray, Seventh Voyage of Sinbad DVD and a VHS tape of Memphis Belle without any problems. I have the same panel as you do. I was impressed with the depth of the picture, almost like 3D without the glasses. Maybe it is your setup or connections. I don 't have a network setup, I just use the TV for Direct TV, Blu Rays , DVDs and VHS tapes. Maybe that is the difference. Anyway that is my experience. Best of luck and maybe you have to have another trade in or warranty work.
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post #6 of 42 Old 09-15-2013, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I have the F6300 and have played Avengers Blu Ray, Sound of Music Blu Ray, 4K mastered Ghostbusters Blu Ray, Seventh Voyage of Sinbad DVD and a VHS tape of Memphis Belle without any problems. I have the same panel as you do. I was impressed with the depth of the picture, almost like 3D without the glasses. Maybe it is your setup or connections. I don 't have a network setup, I just use the TV for Direct TV, Blu Rays , DVDs and VHS tapes. Maybe that is the difference. Anyway that is my experience. Best of luck and maybe you have to have another trade in or warranty work.

What versions of the TV do you have? Is it the 60 inch? I do really like the TV so if dropping down to 55 inches will fix the issue I would be happy to do so.

On Avengers it is only really noticeable in the black widow interrogation scene and that's if TV brightness is set below 50. It's almost like an on/off switch. Below 50 = ghosting, 50 or above = no ghosting.
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post #7 of 42 Old 09-15-2013, 07:21 PM
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What versions of the TV do you have? Is it the 60 inch? I do really like the TV so if dropping down to 55 inches will fix the issue I would be happy to do so.

On Avengers it is only really noticeable in the black widow interrogation scene and that's if TV brightness is set below 50. It's almost like an on/off switch. Below 50 = ghosting, 50 or above = no ghosting.

I own the 60". For Blu Ray I use the standard setting with a 12 backlight, 40 brightness, 80 contrast and a 65 sharpness. The ghosting can be corrected by going to Auto Motion plus and selecting a different option than auto. I also use current for my picture set up instead of all because the TV picture of Direct TV can be too bright. My Direct Tv set up is 10 backlight, 38 brightness and 78 contrast.
For all sources I knocked Dynamic Contrast down from High to Medium. Also, not matter what is said about who made the panels, Samsung gave specs for its panels or made the panel.
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post #8 of 42 Old 09-16-2013, 10:03 AM
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to the OP, you should try turning OFF Auto Motion Plus 120Hz if you haven't already done so

aside from that, when Samsung states 'all panels are made to the same specs' what they really mean is all panels must meet the same *minimum* specs, not that all panels are exactly the same with regards to things like viewing angles, black levels, motion handling, color accuracy, etc.

(in other words, some panels do have certain advantages over others and the issue you describe may very well be characteristic of the Sharp panels.. assuming you have checked all your picture settings/options for anything that may be causing the issue)

you can also check to see the firmware is up to date though I doubt that will have any effect on the issue
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post #9 of 42 Old 09-16-2013, 10:54 AM
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Samsung has standards for it's panels as does Vizio, Sony, Toshiba, LG etc. The panels are made according to those standards. Don't allow anyone to tell you different. The more expensive Samsung, Sony etc. have different standards and panels are made according to those standards, no matter who makes them. In the case of the Samsung 60F5300 all the panels are the same because they are made to Samsung standards. The high ratings of this TV from Amazon, Best Buy, Sears and the Samsung site itself by customers tell the story. Every model of every LCD LED TV made has some that just don't pass the muster, that is a fact of life.

There is a legal reason for this, all the 60F5300 have to be the same as advertised, otherwise it would be fraud because one panel is better than the other for the same product. Considering that I have taught LAW for 30 years, I would say that this is a good reason.
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post #10 of 42 Old 09-16-2013, 02:06 PM
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http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/part-model/un60f

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/part-model/un55f



all UN60F6300's use HS01 (Sharp) panels: http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/part-model/Samsung-Parts/Television-Parts/Model-UN60F6300AFXZAHS01/1482/0333600?pathTaken=&prst=0&shdMod=UN60F6300AFXZA-HS01

so yes, they will all perform the same

but the 55" uses a TH01 (Samsung) panel, so it will be different from the 60" HS01: http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/part-model/Samsung-Parts/Television-Parts/Model-UN55F6300AFXZATH01/1482/0333600?pathTaken=&prst=0&shdMod=UN55F6300AFXZA-TH01


the panel lottery is very real and its legal... and it would be naive to assume different panel makes/types are going to perform 100% the same... even two panels of the same make/type could vary to some extent due to manufacturing tolerances
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post #11 of 42 Old 09-16-2013, 06:34 PM
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You have just confirmed what I had stated all panels of the 60F6300 are the same based on the specs of Samsung. Some panels maybe a "lemon" in this group that is legal but all panels of that group must be of the same specs. If Samsung manufactured the panel and Sharp manufactured the panel for the 60F6300 they must be identical or a case can be made of fraud. If person A buys 60F6300 and gets an inferior panel made by Samsung because it is not of the same specs as Sharp built panel than that inconsistency would be deliberate and a fraud. The 55" panel also must be the same on that model according to Samsung specs for the 55" hdtv.
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post #12 of 42 Old 09-17-2013, 09:44 AM
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you're missing the point; with some model numbers/screen sizes there is only one panel available and with others there can be 2 or more different types

for example look at the top two entries here: http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/part-model/un46eh6

both are UN46EH6000's but one is a CMO S-MVA panel (panel version CS01) and another is a 'Samsung' S-LCD S-PVA (panel version TS02)



furthermore, going back to the F6300, the specs on the product page are the same for all screen sizes (including 55" and 60")... yet different panels are used in different sizes

now, the Sharp panels may not be inferior in every way to a Samsung panel but it will be different in significant ways that may make some owners more satisfied with the Samsung panel in general




To sum it up, Hxxx panels are different from Txxx panels. Yet Samsung shows the same specs for both... which is why the specs don't tell the full story.
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post #13 of 42 Old 09-17-2013, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

you're missing the point; with some model numbers/screen sizes there is only one panel available and with others there can be 2 or more different types

for example look at the top two entries here: http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/part-model/un46eh6

both are UN46EH6000's but one is a CMO S-MVA panel (panel version CS01) and another is a 'Samsung' S-LCD S-PVA (panel version TS02)



furthermore, going back to the F6300, the specs on the product page are the same for all screen sizes (including 55" and 60")... yet different panels are used in different sizes

now, the Sharp panels may not be inferior in every way to a Samsung panel but it will be different in significant ways that may make some owners more satisfied with the Samsung panel in general




To sum it up, Hxxx panels are different from Txxx panels. Yet Samsung shows the same specs for both... which is why the specs don't tell the full story.

The last sentence you wrote just doesn't cut the mustard. You are intimating that because of the different panels one TV is better than the other, no matter that both use the same spec.

All panels no matter who makes them must use the Samsung specs for any of their models. You can't have one panel do more or less than the Samsung specs, otherwise model specifications would mean NOTHING. Sharp, Sony or Samsung panels don't make any difference as long as the specs are satisfied. There is no proof that one panel is better than the other as long as the specs are satisfied. If someone has the proof (not conjecture) as to % of failure of each panel, I would be in interested in seeing it. The F6300 has received excellent ratings from a number of sources. Problems have not come from the fact that it was a Sony panel or a Samsung panel or a Sharp panel. Manufacturers sell each other panels all the time as well as internal parts. But all panels must be up to that spec. Do you think that Sony passive TV-3D is a Sony panel or an LG panel? Does it matter if the TV specs are satisfied. The customer is getting what he paid for. Problems from TVs come from the "I may have a lemon thought" because of something that was not made right or placed wrong in production.

Incidentally according 161,000 customers of Consumer Reports of Led LCD TVs, serious problems or repairs took place 3% of the time for Sharp and Sony TVs and 4% for Samsung TVs. No matter who makes the panels, these are pretty excellent records don't you think?
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post #14 of 42 Old 09-17-2013, 11:43 AM
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The last sentence you wrote just doesn't cut the mustard. You are intimating that because of the different panels one TV is better than the other, no matter that both use the same spec.

All panels no matter who makes them must use the Samsung specs for any of their models. You can't have one panel do more or less than the Samsung specs, otherwise model specifications would mean NOTHING. Sharp, Sony or Samsung panels don't make any difference as long as the specs are satisfied. There is no proof that one panel is better than the other as long as the specs are satisfied. If someone has the proof (not conjecture) as to % of failure of each panel, I would be in interested in seeing it. The F6300 has received excellent ratings from a number of sources. Problems have not come from the fact that it was a Sony panel or a Samsung panel or a Sharp panel. Manufacturers sell each other panels all the time as well as internal parts. But all panels must be up to that spec. Do you think that Sony passive TV-3D is a Sony panel or an LG panel? Does it matter if the TV specs are satisfied. The customer is getting what he paid for. Problems from TVs come from the "I may have a lemon thought" because of something that was not made right or placed wrong in production.

Incidentally according 161,000 customers of Consumer Reports of Led LCD TVs, serious problems or repairs took place 3% of the time for Sharp and Sony TVs and 4% for Samsung TVs. No matter who makes the panels, these are pretty excellent records don't you think?

I'm talking about differences in picture quality, NOT reliability. Also, most published specs for TVs have more to do with marketing than anything else (and some panels could meet certain 'internal' specs while others exceed them, making the latter better).

Therefore, the OP's issue does not necessarily mean their set is defective, just that the issue of one of the shortcomings of the HS01 panel (since they have already tried a replacement with the same size/panel version).
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post #15 of 42 Old 09-17-2013, 11:52 AM
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BTW, look at the EH5000 thread and you will find many reports of blue/purple ghosting on Hxxx panels but none on any other panel type like Txxx, Cxxx, or Axxx. 60Hz panels seem to be the main ones affected by this issue but there are some reports in the 6000 series (120Hz panels) as well. This issue affects Hxxx panels only based on the various reports I've read on this forum.

If the OP comes back to this thread, it will be interesting to see if they can resolve the issue via picture settings/a firmware update alone. If not and they get the 55" F6300 with the Txxx panel, odds are it won't have this issue.
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post #17 of 42 Old 09-17-2013, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the replies and information.

I was unable to resolve the issue via picture settings or firmware. I am up to date on the firmware and I tried turning on and off every setting I could think of but every time right when I go below 50 brightness the issue reappears.

I tried adjusting back-light + eco settings to get the picture where I like it but with not being able to go below 50 brightness the picture just looks washed out. I have the TV in my basement so being able to lower the brightness is pretty important to me.

I read through the forum linked and it gives me hope that the 55 inch version won't have this issue. I will be exchanging the 60 for the 55 and will update this thread on if the issue is no longer present in the smaller version.
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post #18 of 42 Old 09-17-2013, 01:03 PM
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Here are facts, Best Buy 4.8 out 5 stars by 261 customers for the picture quality of the Samsung 60F6300. Overwhelming praise for picture quality on Amazon and Crutchfield. Only one 60" tested by Consumer Reports received less than a Very Good HD picture quality and that was an Insignia. The Samsung 60" F6300 are supposed to only have HS01 panels, so you say. This forum has unscientific means of measuring the quality of panels. The people of this forum mostly are interested in taking care of their problems and asking for help (which is good). If we followed your logic the OPPO 103 might be in trouble because of complaints. No one has shown hard facts about the success or failure rates of the panel picture quality. All I have heard is conjecture about what people have heard from other people. There is a little too much of that at this forum.

My Samsung 60F6300TV is so good that it seems 3 dimensional.

I would like to see scientific proof that any of a companies panels are better than another.

Pushing me to a forum answer or a Sears department site, is not proof.
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post #19 of 42 Old 09-17-2013, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Nibel85 View Post

Thank you for the replies and information.

I was unable to resolve the issue via picture settings or firmware. I am up to date on the firmware and I tried turning on and off every setting I could think of but every time right when I go below 50 brightness the issue reappears.

I tried adjusting back-light + eco settings to get the picture where I like it but with not being able to go below 50 brightness the picture just looks washed out. I have the TV in my basement so being able to lower the brightness is pretty important to me.

I read through the forum linked and it gives me hope that the 55 inch version won't have this issue. I will be exchanging the 60 for the 55 and will update this thread on if the issue is no longer present in the smaller version.

Stop the eco setting. I hope your basement doesn't much humidity. Try to get a new TV if that doesn't work.
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post #20 of 42 Old 09-17-2013, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Turned on and off eco settings to test. Same outcome. I was playing with them to see if I could compensate for not being able to adjust the brightness. Basement isn't humid thankfully. Had a 46 inch down there that I moved upstairs when I got this one.
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post #21 of 42 Old 09-17-2013, 05:38 PM
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I read through the forum linked and it gives me hope that the 55 inch version won't have this issue. I will be exchanging the 60 for the 55 and will update this thread on if the issue is no longer present in the smaller version.

If it's anything like the UN46EH6030 with a TS01 panel that I'm currently using, it shouldn't. I look forward to reading your impressions of the 55" F6300 and how it compares to the two 60" F6300's you have tried.
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post #22 of 42 Old 09-17-2013, 09:12 PM
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Greetings,

I recently purchased a Samsung 60 inch F6300 LED. Very shortly after I noticed severe ghosting on dark objects. I noticed this most while playing video games like Dark Souls or watching 2d animated movies. In the games in was a very visible smear while in the 2d animated it was a trailing ghost. This only occurred when it was a black or dark colored image changing to something lighter.

The funny thing is that the issue seems to go away slightly if I set the brightness to 50. 60 brightness and it is almost completely gone but then the screen is washed out. I exchanged the TV for a different one thinking that it may just be a problem with the first set but the second F6300 has the exact same issue.

Any thoughts on if this is something that can be fixed via firmware or if it is a problem with the panel? I heard a rumor that all 60inch Samsung panels are manufactured by sharp so maybe that's the problem. Any opinions or thoughts on this are appreciated. Thanks

I have an 46" f6400 with a TS01 panel that has none of the trailing issues that you have mentioned. The smearing is primarily from the use of VA panels which are inherently slower than IPS panels. Manufacturers such as Samsung,Sharp and Sony who generally employ VA overdrive the panels to improve motion performance/response time, but introduces motion artifacts like overdrive trailing/smearing.
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post #23 of 42 Old 09-18-2013, 02:29 PM
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Does anyone have the 75" 6300? If so could you tell me what panel is used on the set?
Thanks, Gerry
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post #24 of 42 Old 09-18-2013, 04:29 PM
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Does anyone have the 75" 6300? If so could you tell me what panel is used on the set?
Thanks, Gerry

I don't see a 75" version of the F6300 using this site: http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/part-model/un75f

but that link shows the panel codes used by other 75" F series Samsung LED-LCDs
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post #25 of 42 Old 09-19-2013, 03:57 AM
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Does anyone have the 75" 6300? If so could you tell me what panel is used on the set?
Thanks, Gerry

Don't worry about the panel number, if you want a 75" set, buy it. If it doesn't work return it. This panel stuff has some people going crazy over panels instead of TVs and the sizes they want.
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post #26 of 42 Old 09-19-2013, 04:01 AM
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do you have a Hxxx panel (Sharp)?

is the ghosting blue/purple in color?

Who cares about the panel number, if the set is having trouble, warranty work or a return will take care of the problem. All companies use different panels but the specs are maintained. I read in another thread about this being a myth about panels, I am more than ever starting to agree, you seem to be obsesed about panels.
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post #27 of 42 Old 09-19-2013, 09:42 AM
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Who cares about the panel number, if the set is having trouble, warranty work or a return will take care of the problem. All companies use different panels but the specs are maintained. I read in another thread about this being a myth about panels, I am more than ever starting to agree, you seem to be obsesed about panels.

have you actually tried the same model with two different panel types? or are you just assuming that different panel types all perform the same because of the manufacturer's claim that all panels are made meet the same specs?

and you're definitely confusing reliability with PQ differences/characteristics... non-Samsung panels are not technically defective/broken, they just perform somewhat differently in ways that could be less desirable
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post #28 of 42 Old 10-10-2013, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Update: Finally received the 55 inch version of the F6300. It does not exhibit any of the ghosting/smearing issues the multiple 60 inch versions I went through did. I can set brightness down to 40 where I like it with no issue. Also there seems to be better uniformity, less light bleed, and zero noticeable banding. Over all a much better set than the 60 inch in my opinion. Panel version is TH01.
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post #29 of 42 Old 10-10-2013, 07:02 AM
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Update: Finally received the 55 inch version of the F6300. It does not exhibit any of the ghosting/smearing issues the multiple 60 inch versions I went through did. I can set brightness down to 40 where I like it with no issue. Also there seems to be better uniformity, less light bleed, and zero noticeable banding. Over all a much better set than the 60 inch in my opinion. Panel version is TH01.

there you go... the panel lottery is real and all panels are not created equal
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post #30 of 42 Old 10-10-2013, 11:17 AM
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Update: Finally received the 55 inch version of the F6300. It does not exhibit any of the ghosting/smearing issues the multiple 60 inch versions I went through did. I can set brightness down to 40 where I like it with no issue. Also there seems to be better uniformity, less light bleed, and zero noticeable banding. Over all a much better set than the 60 inch in my opinion. Panel version is TH01.

I am very happy for you, I hope you have many years of enjoyment with your TV. Evidently you had some lemons with the 60". The HSO1 panel is made by Samsung, according to Samsung itself. My 60" 6300 has NO problems and I am enjoying it as you are you 55".

Take care.
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