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post #4081 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 11:53 AM
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Raitzi may be correct but I was told by a Sony rep that the 70w850b and the 65w950b both use IPS panels but so far I'm seeing only the 70w850b with the banding issues reported. The reason I think that the 70w850b uses the IPS panel is that the 65w850a uses the S-PVA panel and has no radial banding issues and is much more reflective than the 70w850b and better contrast but more prone to clouding. The two major features added to the 950b include Triluminuce color filter and the X-Tended Dynamic Range, which supposedly enhances black levels and brightness. If it does indeed accomplish those two feats then this IPS panel could rival the S-PVA panel.
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post #4082 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
When you've been looking at inaccurate pictures for so long, the transition can be jarring for some. I usually recommend people love with the settings for at least a week before doing an A/B comparison otherwise you won't have time to get used to the picture.


Sent from my Flip Phone using DOS

I went through that transition vivid color pop withdraws and all ! Best thing I ever did was hook up with AVS here
do some reading download AVS HD709 here and learn how to use it all 5 sets (6) if you count the garage are
looking 100% better with more accurate color not clipping whites ,crushing blacks and shadow detail or blooming and
and over saturating color . All are working about as well as they can within their various limitations and capabilities
every one of them are way better than the out of box pre sets picture detail /colors are much better now and well worth the effort to correct IMO .

Short of a professional calibration or an expert enthusiasts DIY job both using colorimeters (maybe some other stuff )and computer software its the best thing you can do for your TV.

Disney Wow and Spears and Munsil HD Benchmark are good DVD/BD with which to adjust or calibrate your set some of the features on these might be a little easier to use than AVS HD .709 all 3 are excellent with Disney Wow probably being the most user friendly .

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
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post #4083 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Raitzi may be correct but I was told by a Sony rep that the 70w850b and the 65w950b both use IPS panels but so far I'm seeing only the 70w850b with the banding issues reported. The reason I think that the 70w850b uses the IPS panel is that the 65w850a uses the S-PVA panel and has no radial banding issues and is much more reflective than the 70w850b and better contrast but more prone to clouding. The two major features added to the 950b include Triluminuce color filter and the X-Tended Dynamic Range, which supposedly enhances black levels and brightness. If it does indeed accomplish those two feats then this IPS panel could rival the S-PVA panel.
Sorry forgot to mention that 70" version has IPS and 60" has SPVA.

Edit:My excuse is that 70" version is not available this side of the Atlantic

Last edited by Raitzi; 07-20-2014 at 12:29 PM.
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post #4084 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 12:40 PM
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5 Sony black level + contrast Comparison


http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/sony

2013 Sony R450A Black: 0.022 cd/m2 Contrast: 4750 : 1 Samsung SPVA

2014 Sony W600B Black: 0.026 cd/m2 Contrast: 3500 : 1 Samsing SPVA

2014 Sony W800B Black: 0.020 cd/m2 Contrast: 5260 : 1 AUO AMVA5

2014 Sony W850B Black: 0.026 cd/m2 Contrast: 4273 : probably AUO AMVA *panel mfr/type/spec may vary by size

2014 Sony W950B Black: 0.111 cd/m2 Contrast: 942 : 1 >>>> LGD IPS


Notes : AUO AMVA and Samsung SPVA are both VA panels LGD are S-IPS

AUO AMVA 3D (usually active *can be passive also )

All 3D Samsung are active .

All 3D LGD are passive .

OFC when the Sony 9x and especially the TOTL 9.5x cranks up it's bag of magic silicon tricks they have remarkable picture. 9.5 x is widely regarded as the best 2014 LCD



The 2014 W600/2013 R4 black levels are almost same contrast while still good are a little behind the 2013 R4
The 2014 Sony W800B and W850B are similar to 2013 R4 black level and contrast
Sony W950B black level/contrast being an LGD S-IPS do not match the others for native contrast /min black levels

It would seem the Sony W800/850B would be the sweet spot at Sony with respect to price vs performance

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
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post #4085 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 02:14 PM
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Thanks for the discussion guys! Hard to decide between the 60w850b and the 65w850a based on everything everyone has said here.

On the one hand the w850b is getting great reviews and approaches w900a in black levels according to Cnet and like mentioned above, it seems to be the new sweet spot in Sony's lineup. Reviewers seem to like it a lot more than the w950b which is the IPS successor to the 65w850a.
On the other the w850a is 5" bigger and technically better on paper with its extra features but more prone to clouding/banding/flashlighting (although Raitzi did point out the review w850b set on rtings had some clouding issues too).
Could it be that this year even though the w850b (60" version VA panel, not the 70" IPS panel) doesn't have triluminos or local dimming, it is just as good if not better than the w850a? I'm willing to sacrifice screen size for viewing quality.

Is the vignetting / dark side edges inherent to the w850a or are the few posted here just problem sets? Like I said earlier, I noticed it immediately on a demo set before reading this thread and learning others had the same problem. I know there was an ice rub method to work out the vignetting but it appears to only work for some.

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post #4086 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
It would seem the Sony W800/850B would be the sweet spot at Sony with respect to price vs performance
This is my conclusion, too, and I really love the extra screen real estate of the 70", so I'm hoping the tech on the IPS panel at least matches last year's quality, even without the Trilumi & XTDR features of the 950b.
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post #4087 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 05:41 PM
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Everyone seems to be lumping the w850b into one screen type but I think that the 70w850b is a IPS panel. It's the 60w850b that uses a VA panel.
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post #4088 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Everyone seems to be lumping the w850b into one screen type buy I think that the 70w850b is a IPS panel.
Andy the W850B uses the IPS Panel.
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post #4089 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 08:06 PM
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WhiteSands, if you would be kind enough to PM me your settings I'd be most appreciative! Thanks!
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post #4090 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post
Andy the W850B uses the IPS Panel.
Both the 60" and 70" versions of the w850b are VA panels. The w950b uses IPS panels in all sizes.
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post #4091 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 09:17 PM
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I believe UFO is correct, both w850b sizes are VA panels.

I checked out the w850a again and this demo model also had the darker edges, very noticeable in lighter scenes. Seems they all have it?
It reminded me of older rear projection TVs.

Wanted the 5" extra size but looks like the 60w850b might be the better option for those who don't want the vignetting.
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post #4092 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Everyone seems to be lumping the w850b into one screen type but I think that the 70w850b is a IPS panel. It's the 60w850b that uses a VA panel.
re tube twister

I believe Andy is quite correct the 70" are not on my panel list either rest of 8x/8.5x under 70" are AUO AMVA
AFAIK anyway .

IIRC they had orphan panels last year in the 70" R5 sets I think were 1080p Sharp ASV panels where as other R5 were AUO AMVA maybe ?


I think maybe this year 70" is orphan in the series again maybe S-IPS ?

contrast /black level spec will give it up as being an VA or IPS though and narrow it down to maybe 1 or 2 suppliers .


I have last years 40" R4 in the bedroom the black levels and contrast pretty much equal this years 8x and 8.5x Sonys
when I set the brightness at 50- 53 in pitch black room letter bars disappear into the darkness like the thin black bezel.
all you see is movie and great contrast .............. OTOH if I could just make it grow 10 or 15" ☺☺.

I like that set up better than a (too few local Dimming Zone Vizio approach ) which to me is more of a patchwork thing '
ofc on the 9x 9.5x or any of the FALD Sonys that is another matter all together but nobody'a getting one of those for the price of a Vizio either .

I still think the 65 and under 8x/8.5x are in a good spot if you can get a good panel and you don't have to do through
perfect panel withdrawls or worse yet PDP withdrawls TBH I watch the Sony more though it's right next to my computer desk in here so I can watch TV and troll AVS at the same time ☺☺☺

luckily after diy visual calibrating The R4 worked out fine for the BD again now if I could make grow ....

2013 Sony R450A Black: 0.022 cd/m2 Contrast: 4750 : 1 Samsung SPVA

2014 Sony W800B Black: 0.020 cd/m2 Contrast: 5260 : 1 AUO AMVA5

2014 Sony W850B Black: 0.026 cd/m2 Contrast: 4273 : probably AUO AMVA *panel mfr/type/spec may vary by size

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -

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post #4093 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 09:40 PM
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Just picked my 65w850a today on sale at frys. Got a chance to try whitesands settings and they really brought the set to life. Big thanks to him, try them if you haven't just to get an idea!
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post #4094 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Muldrow View Post
Just picked my 65w850a today on sale at frys. Got a chance to try whitesands settings and they really brought the set to life. Big thanks to him, try them if you haven't just to get an idea!
cool maybe has an AUO AMVA active 3D panel some of those can be pretty good .

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -
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post #4095 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 11:28 PM
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Just curious since we're talking about different Sony Panels but where did they get that curved panel from? The the 990 I think it's called. Who makes a curved LED/LCD panel and is it only made for Sony?
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post #4096 of 4471 Old 07-20-2014, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Muldrow View Post
Just picked my 65w850a today on sale at frys. Got a chance to try whitesands settings and they really brought the set to life. Big thanks to him, try them if you haven't just to get an idea!
Hey Sean, on lighter or all white screens do you notice any vignetting on your new set (darker vertical edges)? What is the build date on yours? Thanks!
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post #4097 of 4471 Old 07-21-2014, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Just curious since we're talking about different Sony Panels but where did they get that curved panel from? The the 990 I think it's called. Who makes a curved LED/LCD panel and is it only made for Sony?



Samsung makes plenty of curved panels for their own sets in different sizes also .Sony could be buying Samsung panels wouldn't be the first time !

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
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post #4098 of 4471 Old 07-21-2014, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Samsung makes plenty of curved panels for their own sets in different sizes also .Sony could be buying Samsung panels wouldn't be the first time !
The panel in the s900a is supplied by LG, and is an IPS panel.
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post #4099 of 4471 Old 07-21-2014, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
re tube twister

I believe Andy is quite correct the 70" are not on my panel list either rest of 8x/8.5x under 70" are AUO AMVA
AFAIK anyway .

IIRC they had orphan panels last year in the 70" R5 sets I think were 1080p Sharp ASV panels where as other R5 were AUO AMVA maybe ?


I think maybe this year 70" is orphan in the series again maybe S-IPS ?

contrast /black level spec will give it up as being an VA or IPS though and narrow it down to maybe 1 or 2 suppliers .


I have last years 40" R4 in the bedroom the black levels and contrast pretty much equal this years 8x and 8.5x Sonys
when I set the brightness at 50- 53 in pitch black room letter bars disappear into the darkness like the thin black bezel.
all you see is movie and great contrast .............. OTOH if I could just make it grow 10 or 15" ☺☺.

I like that set up better than a (too few local Dimming Zone Vizio approach ) which to me is more of a patchwork thing '
ofc on the 9x 9.5x or any of the FALD Sonys that is another matter all together but nobody'a getting one of those for the price of a Vizio either .

I still think the 65 and under 8x/8.5x are in a good spot if you can get a good panel and you don't have to do through
perfect panel withdrawls or worse yet PDP withdrawls TBH I watch the Sony more though it's right next to my computer desk in here so I can watch TV and troll AVS at the same time ☺☺☺

luckily after diy visual calibrating The R4 worked out fine for the BD again now if I could make grow ....

2013 Sony R450A Black: 0.022 cd/m2 Contrast: 4750 : 1 Samsung SPVA

2014 Sony W800B Black: 0.020 cd/m2 Contrast: 5260 : 1 AUO AMVA5

2014 Sony W850B Black: 0.026 cd/m2 Contrast: 4273 : probably AUO AMVA *panel mfr/type/spec may vary by size

No testing needs to be done to determine what panel is in the 70". You can see in the product specs that the 70w850b comes with active 3d glasses. Also, I have seen the 70" model, it is clearly a VA panel (and a very low quality one at that).
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post #4100 of 4471 Old 07-21-2014, 03:51 AM
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Great thread. Whitesands, if you wouldn't mind sending your settings to me, Im about to pull the trigger on a 60" sony and would love to try your settings. Thanks in advance.

Steve
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Just want to say thank you, Whitesands, for taking the time to send me your settings. Looking forward to applying them to my set tonight.

I appreciate your help and the effort you've donated assisting the AVS community. Thanks again!
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Yes, a big thanks to Whitesands for sharing his settings!

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by lodolfan View Post
Just want to say thank you, Whitesands, for taking the time to send me your settings. Looking forward to applying them to my set tonight.

I appreciate your help and the effort you've donated assisting the AVS community. Thanks again!
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post #4103 of 4471 Old 07-21-2014, 07:06 AM
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So I've been playing with the TV for a while now and am generally very happy with the results. Though I've got to admit that it's on par with my 2008 Samsung 46LN950a, which is true LED backlit with local dimming. That set has amazing black levels, but it's Achilles heel is that it suffers from some blooming.

I keep going back and forth on a couple settings on the Sony. Lately I've been leaving the LED Dynamic Control to OFF, since on really dark movies I've seen the screen shut off the LEDs when no light is present and then go bright again when a small light source comes in. Right now I'm finding it less jarring leaving the control off, but I flip it back and forth. Anyone else do that too?
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post #4104 of 4471 Old 07-21-2014, 07:58 AM
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This set has native contrast ratio of 5000:1. So it will do good even without led control.
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post #4105 of 4471 Old 07-21-2014, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lodolfan View Post
WhiteSands, if you would be kind enough to PM me your settings I'd be most appreciative! Thanks!
You also might want to try these settings. I've been using them for about 3 weeks and have to say they give a very real looking picture with cinema mode. The tv uses the same panel as our w850a

The settings are in AustinJerrys signature at the end of his post. Official Sony [X9] XBR-55X900A / XBR-65X900A Owner's Thread
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodean View Post
You also might want to try these settings. I've been using them for about 3 weeks and have to say they give a very real looking picture with cinema mode. The tv uses the same panel as our w850a

The settings are in AustinJerrys signature at the end of his post. Official Sony [X9] XBR-55X900A / XBR-65X900A Owner's Thread
Thanks bodean.

I was very close to swapping my 70w850b for the X900A this weekend but decided to give the 70 an opportunity. I really have seen no issues with the panel except the 3D which doesn't seem so bad at times.

Reasons: didn't want to give up the 5" and the spouse is happy with how the 70 fits the decor aspect since it's already mounted. Still have 30 days to decide since I'm BBY Elite. We'll see but thanks again.

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post #4107 of 4471 Old 07-21-2014, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lodolfan View Post
I was very close to swapping my 70w850b for the X900A this weekend but decided to give the 70 an opportunity. I really have seen no issues with the panel except the 3D which doesn't seem so bad at times.
I'm probably buying my 70w850b this afternoon. Is the 3D as bad as they say? I won't use 3D much, but I will use it. I've also been wondering if the jump from 60" to 70" is all positive. No drawbacks? (Other than price, obviously.) Mrs. Kong would be a lot happier to know it's unilaterally better rather than a pros & cons type scenario.

Have you tried using WhiteSands settings on the 70?
PS WhiteSands, I'd love to see how your settings work on this TV if you wouldn't mind PMing them over?
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post #4108 of 4471 Old 07-21-2014, 10:05 AM
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They work great on this set and are posted here in the 3350-3370 post range.
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post #4109 of 4471 Old 07-21-2014, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kong View Post
I'm probably buying my 70w850b this afternoon. Is the 3D as bad as they say? I won't use 3D much, but I will use it. I've also been wondering if the jump from 60" to 70" is all positive. No drawbacks? (Other than price, obviously.) Mrs. Kong would be a lot happier to know it's unilaterally better rather than a pros & cons type scenario.

Have you tried using WhiteSands settings on the 70?
PS WhiteSands, I'd love to see how your settings work on this TV if you wouldn't mind PMing them over?
I actually received his settings last night and will test tonight if I have the opportunity.

The only issue I see with 70w850b is the ghosting and crosstalk. 2D picture specifically BluRays look amazing especially for a TV this size. Never having 3D on a TV before, the only the 3D I know is the active 3D on my set and movie theater 3D which I assume is passive.

What's funny is that it seems the 3D quality is hit or miss depending on the content. I now own a few 3D titles and of the few, Titanic 3D looks amazing. Its clear, colorful, lots of depth and no ghosting. Rio 2 looks clear, not too colorful, not much ghosting but I found the pop out and depth lacking.

On the other hand. the 3D demos on the S&M disc have extreme ghosting. Very nice depth and colors but lots of ghosting that makes it difficult to watch.

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post #4110 of 4471 Old 07-21-2014, 12:11 PM
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I will definitely check and let you know. Never even looked cux I've been just fiddling with the set since I just got it yesterday. I'll dive deeper once I get home this evening.
Sean Muldrow is offline  
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