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post #4141 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 12:50 PM
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Not to go too far off topic but I looked at a 65s990a yesterday and my first impression was that it looked(crystal clear deep black high contrast) just like the 65w850b only with a curved screen. Same X-Reality Pro, same TRILUMANUCE feature. The only picture I would compare it to is the 65w850a.
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post #4142 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
MoesArt

Do you think that leaving my TV set to a backlight of 10 (the max) in all modes will harm my TV's longevity (i.e. will the backlighting die sooner) or is the difference between a setting of 7 and 10 insignificant to its lifespan?

re tubetwister

Shouldn't hurt it led working within their specification should meet their stated MTBF ( mean time before failure specification)

Which in the case of the panel inclusive is usually 30,000 - (~ 3.5 yrs 24/7) or ~ 50,000 ( ~ 5 yrs 24/7 ) hours MTBF is considered to be 1/2 brightness

More likely the bonded tab LVDS connectors, the panel driver board , T-conn , main board or PSU /LED driver board will
fail before the LED strips or LED bar in the case of an edge light if the parts are available down the road (usually from salvage or harvest sources ) the panel lighting can be repaired sometimes .

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post #4143 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raitzi View Post
Yes you are right. TV assumes that you are going to play games with games console and it will not automatically put e.g. your movie mode when playing blurays.



Do u know anyone who uses auto mode and enjoys it for daily use?



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post #4144 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 01:24 PM
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MoesArt, you can compare your TV picture to most of my better screen shots. When I watch a blu ray or regular HDTV show my set looks as good as the many screen shots I have posted for the last 8 or so months.

My guess is your set must have a bad panel. How does your W850a set compare to maybe some other color sets in your house. That would make it's easy to see if you have a defective panel which I think you do. Banding is a white bar maybe 2" wide that can be seen from the top of the screen to the bottom. It would appear slightly brighter than the overall picture. It can usually only be seen when the camera rather fast pans following some fast moving object or like players in some sports game. I think some say they see a horizontal bar but I have never seen that one.

Clouding is where the bright LED's shine though a darker scene especially a black area or full black screen.

No, the LEDs running at max should not shorten their 50 to 60,000 hour expected life. Picture-mode Vivid comes from the factory with the backlight set to max. Remember when your set first comes on each time Sony runs the LEDs at twice their max backlight level. They do this evidently to preheat the triluminos filters. They go back to normal brightness by the time the picture comes on.

No banding, clouding or DSE on this set should be tolerated with a good signal applied. I'm almost sure your set has a bad panel from all the problems you mention and I would then lean toward swapping it out.

The other members here sets don't seem to have these problems or if so it's very minimal.

That's just my personal opinion.

WS

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post #4145 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 02:43 PM
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looks like I missed out on getting this TV (pretty much sold out everywhere) is there anything comparable to this to get next? I feel at this point I should wait till next year.
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post #4146 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 03:12 PM
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If you are in no rush and have a TV that will last you till next year I would wait. That way you can see what's being released at CES and make a decision then.


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post #4147 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 03:38 PM
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Unless it's Vizio then you can't count on them releasing what they say.
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post #4148 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
If you are in no rush and have a TV that will last you till next year I would wait. That way you can see what's being released at CES and make a decision then.


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I have a sammy plasma from 2009. Picture wise its decent the only issue is the HDMI ports seem to be dying. I get the "no signal from source" message at least once a week where I have to unplug the everything and the TV for 15 minutes then plug back in and it magically works again. Annoying as hell but technically manageable. Right now seems to be a weird time for TVs, we are in between tech and the Sony tvs that have come out this year 850b are worst then their previous (so odd).
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post #4149 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 06:44 PM
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I seem to have some clouding on the sides of my screen.

And I notice it during dark scenes in movies.

Is this normal?






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post #4150 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 06:47 PM
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To change topic a bit: I need some advise:
I need another 65-70" set. I have a 65w850a which I like. Also have a vizio 80"M which I kept because of good size/cost/performance. I returned a 70" Q+ (S series) because it just didn't have the naturalness of the Sony. What should I get now? Another 850A (assuming I can get one) or can you suggest something better? Is the KDL 950B a better picture ? Does the XBR65X900A provide a better picture when on standard HD? Is its 4K obviously better than the HD on the 850A ????
Thanks
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post #4151 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobC1983 View Post
I seem to have some clouding on the sides of my screen.

And I notice it during dark scenes in movies.

Is this normal?






What you appear to have is light bleed due to the edge lit design. It's inherent. I have it too, but you can mitigate it a few ways. Turn on scene select sync for starters. I also turned on the light sensor since I'm likely to only notice at night in a dark room.

Next, play with the brightness settings. I'm at 48 with backlight at 4 (when led control is set to low, 2 when led control is off). Try playing around with it and see if it helps.
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post #4152 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 08:49 PM
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Tubetwister and WhiteSands, I appreciate your replies.

WhiteSands, I'm pretty confused now. None of what I'm going to write is meant to be argumentative, and I'm sorry to seem like I'm harping on this point but it is my one and only issue with this set. I have a feeling we are miscommunicating. You have lots of experience and knowledge, so I respect your opinions here, but I'm worried I haven't described the problem well to you. I thought you'd immediately know what I was talking about since this DSE/cloudiness seems to be a common problem throughout this thread. Let me see if I can clarify it better this time.

You think I have a bad panel from the problems I describe, but I must've read at least 1-2 dozen other people previously in this thread complain about the exact same problems with a few people commenting these problems are inherent in this set. A few people returned their sets, and others kept them.

You said no vertical banding, cloudiness or DSE should be tolerated on this set. If that were the case, I think most of them would be returned to Sony because I personally believe (the more screenshots I see) that most of them have the DSE.

Given your definition of vertical banding as a narrow vertical white bar most visible during motion, then I take it back... I don't have any vertical banding. You said cloudiness is when the bright LEDs shine through a dark scene. I have some of that, but I'm not sure if the DSE is different than the cloudiness. Why? Because the cloudy pattern is the same size/shape as the DSE pattern. My set looks like it has just 1 problem... there are some slightly darker areas on my set... black background, light background, it doesn't matter... it looks like someone had sprayed a layer of dust on my set (the Dirty Screen Effect).

I've previously referred to the 2 pictures I saw in post #3324 as extremely close to what my TV looks like when there is a solid color background (such as the ones shown in these pictures). These pictures are so close to my set that there's no need for me to take pictures of my own. That poster (guvadc) called it banding, but I would call it cloudiness/DSE.

I've copied and reposted those pictures from post #3324 below as I'm wondering if anyone followed my link to them: Now, would you say that the set in these 2 pictures is a defective panel or is this just typical/normal DSE on a 65W850A?

In spite of this ugly cloudiness/DSE you see in the pictures below, if I play any Blu-Ray (such as Wings of Life) the only time anyone would see the DSE/cloudiness on my set is on clear backgrounds (blue skies, solid green grass, white clouds, white walls, etc.). The other 95% of your typical movie you would think the picture on my set looks perfect (like yours). This is why I'm so torn about returning it. Great 95% of the time, annoying the other 5%. That percentage depends solely on how often there are scenes with solid color backgrounds.

In the post right above mine, someone took pictures of a black screen, and I see yet another blotchy cloudy spot that reminds me of my cloudiness/DSE. It seems like every picture I've seen posted throughout this thread of the 65W850A showing a solid colored background has DSE/cloudiness. This is why I think and wonder if my panel is really defective or actually normal.

Sorry again to harp on this but it's my big issue. I could go back through the thread and collect more links to pictures and posts showing/describing my same problem, but I'm sure you've already seen them. That's why I say I'm confused. You say this problem shouldn't be tolerated and is very uncommon, yet every solid background picture I've seen posted seems to show the opposite. So I'm thinking I must have done a very poor job explaining my problem in prior posts and you think I'm describing a different problem. Hopefully these 2 pictures will clarify.

You said I can compare my TV to most of your better screen shots. Have you ever posted a solid color background (JPG) of your set in this forum? If I were to compare a shot of a lake or a forest (unless there were clear blue sky) I'd expect my set would look identical to yours.

You asked how do I compare my 65W850A to my prior LG 55" and Samsung 52" LCDs (which I did side by side before I moved them around). The 65W850A is so much better looking and vibrant/colorful than my LG and Samsung sets it's amazing... it's a stunning and great picture... EXCEPT when there are solid color backgrounds where I can see the cloudiness/DSE on the Sony. My Samsungs and LG TVs have no hint of cloudiness/DSE. It feels like I upgraded the picture quality but got a new problem (DSE) I'd never heard of before until now.

All I'm trying to determine here is if my panel is really defective or if in fact it's normal and common (as I'm beginning to think).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pic1.jpg (103.1 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg pic2.jpg (130.9 KB, 24 views)
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post #4153 of 4160 Old Yesterday, 11:13 PM
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I would send it back. To me clouding is a light colored blotch (like a white cloud) on a dark back ground. Like a shot of deep space or the black screen you sometimes get when a TV show is going to or coming back from a commercial. This is caused by light leakage from the LED lights. I think the banding you're seeing is more of a screen uniformity issue and should not be there on a S-PVA panel but often times seen on a IPS panel. Tubetwister and Whitesands certainly know a lot more about this stuff than I do so if I'm wrong please correct me. Can Sony even replace your 65w850a with another new 65w850a? They may have nothing but referbs left. That's one reason I asked in another thread if the 65s990a is similar to the 65w850a except for the curved screen. To my eyes they look a lot alike PQ wise.
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post #4154 of 4160 Old Today, 12:26 AM
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JacobC1983, your set looks the same as mine. The reason here your seeing the edge lit LEDs shine though the black (clouding) is that their running at twice their brightness due to no-signal applied. You can read the text on the screen to see that. A good thing to remember on this set, if their is no HD or blu ray/dvd signal to control the LEDs they run at double brightness. Sony does put up a black screen to protect your eyes and these screen shots show the bleed though or clouding twice as bad as it really is. My set shows the same as yours and without the camera I don't see the clouding with no-signal applied.

The one screen shot of HDMI-1 and the full black screen looks to be taken just before the set has fully booted-up. This again is normal for this set as it's in the process of applying a picture to the screen.
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post #4155 of 4160 Old Today, 01:53 AM
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MoesArt, yes I get confused as the members here in the forums are using test screens and such to check their sets for DSE on a light or white screen and clouding usually with no signal applied just to see how their set compares to others.

You mentioned to me I think more than once you see these problems on your set with a good signal applied. If so I say your panel is bad. My set plays just fine as long as i'm watching regular HDTV or a blu ray movie. I'm simply trying to compare my set to yours to see if yours has a problem. You did tell me you have a very good HD signal soruce so that's not the problem.

I never have seen any screen shots of your TV other then with a light or gray screen, none with a picture or TV show on the screen to see if this is a problem with your set while watching a TV show. Actually a short video of your screen on some moving outdoor object like I pasted below would make it easier to see the problem. read on..

Your screen shots using white and gray screens. It's your darker gray screen that bothers me most. The darker center on the screen looks like a bad panel to me.

This looks bad enough to be seen while watching a TV show especially when the camera is moving around like panning across the screen. If so this could be what your calling the DSE effect which would be correct.

Be sure to check out the DSE video link for comparison at the bottom of this message.



Here are 2 different levels of gray screen shots from my set for comparison.




Here below from youtube is a TV set in Brasil with a bad panel possibly a LED-reflector problem. This type problem I would call a really bad DSE problem.

I'm not sure what brand TV this is, but look at the blue sky above the plane and across the upper part of the screen when the camera is panning the blue background sky. You can easily see the DSE in this video. That would drive me crazy if I had a set like that.

So if you can see problems like this on your screen I would waste no time in replacing the set.

Try to click the square box in the lower right of the view to go full-screen. Press the ESC key to go back to the smaller screen size. If you want to play this video over and over then press where is says youtube next to the full-screen app.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Banding Test 005.jpg (56.7 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Banding Test 006.jpg (56.5 KB, 11 views)

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post #4156 of 4160 Old Today, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
I would send it back. To me clouding is a light colored blotch (like a white cloud) on a dark back ground. Like a shot of deep space or the black screen you sometimes get when a TV show is going to or coming back from a commercial. This is caused by light leakage from the LED lights. I think the banding you're seeing is more of a screen uniformity issue and should not be there on a S-PVA panel but often times seen on a IPS panel. Tubetwister and Whitesands certainly know a lot more about this stuff than I do so if I'm wrong please correct me. Can Sony even replace your 65w850a with another new 65w850a? They may have nothing but referbs left. That's one reason I asked in another thread if the 65s990a is similar to the 65w850a except for the curved screen. To my eyes they look a lot alike PQ wise.
Whitesands knows more than I do especially on the bigger panels he's usually on point .
if one can see something significant on a program I would think it has something wrong .

Glad my real TV is a Plasma ☺ not they don't have their own issues now and then but so far it has been good .
The Sony led is doing good likewise . 2 bad the big panels have so many issues I.m sure Sony isn't alone here

OTOH if Foxconn is fabricating the back lights and assembling the panels who knows they are usually pretty good though AFAIK. They made this Sony,the panel backlight and 2 of my HP PC all screwed together well decent quality and finish and no problems other than a last gen Seagate drive in one PC that took a liking to bad sectors at 2 yrs. I put a new Seagate 3.5" Sata 6 single platter with more cache in there it's faster now pretty fast as metal goes ,good R/W /seek speeds the last gen drives had a high probability of failure early on .




No edge lights in the crib here so thankfully none of that flashlight and cloud business I would be wanting to break
out a can of whoop ass if I got stuck with one of those ! never had to swap out a set so far and I'm pretty picky.
lucky I guess out of 5 sets , good luck with your set .

Did yours turn out to be a Samsung panel ? I couldn't verify nothing with that #

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post #4157 of 4160 Old Today, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper04468 View Post
What you appear to have is light bleed due to the edge lit design. It's inherent. I have it too, but you can mitigate it a few ways. Turn on scene select sync for starters. I also turned on the light sensor since I'm likely to only notice at night in a dark room.

Next, play with the brightness settings. I'm at 48 with backlight at 4 (when led control is set to low, 2 when led control is off). Try playing around with it and see if it helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSands View Post
JacobC1983, your set looks the same as mine. The reason here your seeing the edge lit LEDs shine though the black (clouding) is that their running at twice their brightness due to no-signal applied. You can read the text on the screen to see that. A good thing to remember on this set, if their is no HD or blu ray/dvd signal to control the LEDs they run at double brightness. Sony does put up a black screen to protect your eyes and these screen shots show the bleed though or clouding twice as bad as it really is. My set shows the same as yours and without the camera I don't see the clouding with no-signal applied.

The one screen shot of HDMI-1 and the full black screen looks to be taken just before the set has fully booted-up. This again is normal for this set as it's in the process of applying a picture to the screen.
Thanks for the reply --- I will mess with the brightness settings.

I took these pictures to show the effect I see without a picture on the screen. Pointing it out while a movie was playing seemed difficult.


I see the bottom corners the worst during dark movies. It is clear to the eye - first noticed it during "a good day to die hard"

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post #4158 of 4160 Old Today, 09:16 AM
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MoesArt, what you are seeing on your TV is an issue that many edge lit LED TV's have. It's a screen uniformity issue. Many W850a's seem to have this issue, exhibited by darker vertical bands mostly prevalent in the middle of the screen. Some people call it banding. Mine has the issue, White Sands has the issue as do others in this forum. The question is how bad is yours and how much does it affect your viewing experience. You mentioned how visible these bands are when you watch golf. I have noticed this as well. Also on baseball. Most HD TV shows and Blu rays you don't see it because there is a lot going on in the background and it becomes less noticeable. It comes down to your tolerance level. For the most part I love the picture on this TV and am getting used to those times when the uniformity affects what I am watching.
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post #4159 of 4160 Old Today, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Stoneguy View Post
MoesArt, what you are seeing on your TV is an issue that many edge lit LED TV's have. It's a screen uniformity issue. Many W850a's seem to have this issue, exhibited by darker vertical bands mostly prevalent in the middle of the screen. Some people call it banding. Mine has the issue, White Sands has the issue as do others in this forum. The question is how bad is yours and how much does it affect your viewing experience. You mentioned how visible these bands are when you watch golf. I have noticed this as well. Also on baseball. Most HD TV shows and Blu rays you don't see it because there is a lot going on in the background and it becomes less noticeable. It comes down to your tolerance level. For the most part I love the picture on this TV and am getting used to those times when the uniformity affects what I am watching.
I totally agree with you. WhiteSands (the guy is awesome!) has helped me a lot (in addition to what he's posted here). his screenshots of a gray background show a similar DSE/cloudiness pattern to what I see. People are saying that the cloudiness is a brighter than the background issue whereas mine is a darker than the background issue, so then it's just "DSE". He said it was caused by the Triluminous filter layer. Anyway, you are right that on a normal background it is far less noticeable, but as the pattern doesn't change it's visible against scenes with solid color backgrounds (green grass, blue sky) just as you describe. It's not horrible, and some people didn't even notice it, but I do. It's a slight annoyance that has been bugging me. Once I see it, I always see it because my mind knows it's there. Whitesands suggests returning the set, but I still feel my set is probably pretty average, and seeing Whitesands' set with the DSE pattern helps confirm that. Yes, mine is worse than his, but I've seen other screenshots that are worse than mine (DSE).

Sadly I'm out of time right now, so I'll have to follow this up later with more info. I will eventually post some actual screenshots of my TV, but they look like what's been posted. I'm still probably going to keep the TV (today is my last day to return). I just wanted to see how mine compared to others and if it was defective. Whitesands thinks it is (without having actually seen a picture of my TV), while you think it's typical. Bummer (for me) that I procrastinated so late. I'm going to see if I can get the store to let me do a return/rebuy at the old price to get another 30 days, but I doubt the threat of returning it will work.
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post #4160 of 4160 Old Today, 10:16 AM
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MoesArt, I was going to do an exchange (Best Buy) but at the last minute decided against it. There were too many good things about my TV to take a chance in getting a worse TV. I can always go to Sony (maybe under warranty) if it continues to bug me but like I said, I'm kind of getting used to it.
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