12' to 13' Viewing Distance LED Recommendation - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 10-14-2013, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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First, I want to first thank all of the contributors to this forum; it is a great resource for the uninitiated novice (like me).

 

I am looking for an HDTV for our informal living room--where everybody seems to gather (probably because it is closest to the kitchen and it has a thunderous 5.1 setup).

 

My mean viewing distance is ~152 inches.

 

After reviewing a few SMPTE/THX display-to-distance calculators, I am now looking at 80-90+-inch LED/LCD 1080p sets.

 

I would like the following features (in order of preference):

 

- Full array w/ local dimming (although a well-executed edge-lit set might suffice)

- Tolerant of indirect sunlight

- Passive 3D (although a well-executed active 3D set might suffice)

 

I have considered the new 4K sets, however the notional charts I have reviewed seem to indicate I would get limited benefit from the increased resolution capability at this size (80-90 inch) to distance (~152 inch) setup--irrespective of the early-adopter cost premium and scarce 4K viewing content.

 

The sets I am considering (in order of cursory preference):

 

- Sharp LC-90LE657 90-inch

- VIZIO M801d-A3 80-Inch

- Sharp LC-80LE857 80-inch  (although I understand the 2012 844 model has full array backlighting)

 

Note:  I was close to pulling the trigger on a Samsung UN75F8000 75-Inch until I plugged-in my viewing distance into the before mentioned calculator(s); where a 75-inch would be even further from the optimal recommended screen size (~113.6 inches).

 

I am open to any and all suggestions.

 

I have no doubt that the Samsung 75F8000 would have better 2D picture quality than the above mentioned target sets; however, I think the added immersion benefit from the ginormous 90-inch could be the deciding factor  The Visio M801d-A3 also seems to be a fair compromise/cost option.

 

Any advice or thoughts?

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post #2 of 34 Old 10-15-2013, 02:44 AM
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I wouldn't go so much by the charts and calculators. I have the sharp 80" 857 set to view at 18' (very nice picture with a good source). When I had guests watching Avatar in 3D, we pulled the chairs up to 10' and it was too close for my wife and one of the guest. About 13' they were happy. Try to spend some time with sizes/distances if you can. You may be ok with a 75". It takes more than 5 minutes to know. smile.gif
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post #3 of 34 Old 10-15-2013, 03:45 AM
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I'm 15 feet from my sharp 80-857 and it seems a little too small for my likings.
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post #4 of 34 Old 10-15-2013, 04:12 AM
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There is a kind of psychological display shrinking effect. Display perceived initially as a monster one becomes normal after some time and morever a smaller display becomes then unacceptably small. Hence assuming all things equal and your viewing distance go for the biggest one. However, if there are some issues with the display PQ or problems with content PQ go for the smaller one for best compromise. Practically it means if most content watched will be Blu-ray quality and no issues with the display, the biggest one will be best for your viewing distance. If content watched is HD broadcst with significant SD mix go for the smaller one since one can not forget big displays are perfect enhancers of artefacts.

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post #5 of 34 Old 10-15-2013, 05:39 AM
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I'm about 11' from my 75" (6400) and love it. However, it already feels too small. At 11'. My next set for sure will be an 84" 4K set when I like the pricing better and hdmi 2.0 is baked in from the start.

Assuming you can't change your seating distance I would go with the 90" (and I'm assuming based on your write up that a larger screen plus projector are non starters otherwise I might say go 110"!)

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post #6 of 34 Old 10-15-2013, 02:09 PM
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If you can manage the price, the 90" Sharp would be my choice.

Actually, it was my choice. Zero regrets. Aside from the monthly payments and the promises made to my wife to get it in the first place. smile.gif

Not only are you at the movies with a great surround system installed, you're IN the movie with this 90" on the wall and sitting about 10 ft. back.

Only issues I've come across with other members is possible darkened vertical banding on either side of the screen near the edges.

Appearance occurs mostly on solid colors at the sides, otherwise it's not noticeable during normal viewing.

There could be some uneven backlighting on certain units even though it has full array LED backlighting, though again it's nothing to cry about when watching an actual program.

Works great for 3d and regular shows, no complaints about the experience so far, aside from what I mentioned above.

Limited Smart TV features, if you're into that sort of thing, but if you hook up a wifi-enabled Smart 3D Blu-Ray, media player or HTPC, you should be all set.

Especially if you have a complete decent-sounding 2.1 or better surround sound system.

It truly comes down to affordability, really. If you can swing it, the 90" is well worth the investment.

Good luck!
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post #7 of 34 Old 10-15-2013, 02:31 PM
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I'm sitting about 9 feet away from my 75" TV, and I think it's just big enough to get that immersive, theater-quality experience. If I was any further away, I would want a larger TV. If price is no object, I would go for the 90" in your case.
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post #8 of 34 Old 10-15-2013, 02:42 PM
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I sit 12 feet from my 80 inch Vizio and I'm very pleased. My previous set was a 65 inch. PQ is very good when dialed in properly. SD is fine. Obviously not spectacular like the Avatar blu ray, but fine given the source.
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post #9 of 34 Old 10-15-2013, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all very kindly for your timely replies.

 

I have a Sony STR DA3700 ES receiver which has some decent smart access features (e.g. Amazon Prime, etc.).  The intended HDMI 1.4 signal path is:  Directv Genie => STR-DA3700ES (with pass-through) => LC-90LE657 (or something?).

 

I believe choosing the LC-90LE657 will be a trade-off...it is fairly expensive, only fair/good PQ, and arguably soon obsolete (non 4K)--although I have no idea when 4K will be the predominant content in my neighborhood.

 

I had considered waiting until the Jan-Feb timeframe (seasonal price drop) to grab a newer HDMI 2.0 spec 84-inch 4K set.  However, when choosing the 84-inch 4K over the 90-inch 1080p option--I assume the 4K set will result in a cost premium, may only provide a modest gain in real-world PQ, and "suffer" a mildly reduced  "Wow!" factor (i.e. an 84-inch display is ~14.8% smaller than a 90-inch).  I also have no doubt SD content will be quite awful with the 90-inch display.

 

By some of the comments, I seem to be on the right track in that a 90-inch set is an acceptable "immersion experience" size for a 12.7' viewing distance.

 

Have I missed any other sets/options to consider?

 

 

P.S.  Here's some guitars and a little BBQ for your viewing pleasure:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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post #10 of 34 Old 10-15-2013, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post

I'm about 11' from my 75" (6400) and love it. However, it already feels too small. At 11'. My next set for sure will be an 84" 4K set when I like the pricing better and hdmi 2.0 is baked in from the start.

Assuming you can't change your seating distance I would go with the 90" (and I'm assuming based on your write up that a larger screen plus projector are non starters otherwise I might say go 110"!)

Or waiting for the 110"@4K display, 110" LCD panel module is already listed as product smile.gif.

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post #11 of 34 Old 10-16-2013, 07:27 AM
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Damn Pup that's one fine collection. At one point I was trending in that direction but have since rationalized my collection to a Les Paul Custom Classic, Fender Strat, and Martin 6 and 12 strings, both with internal pickups. And my lonely Mesa Boogie... Somewhere there's a Rick with my name on it. But that's a slippery slope! As I see you've discovered biggrin.gif

On the TV, the 84" 4K LG already streets for just under $10k. Not unreasonable to assume that next years sets, hopefully introduced at CES in January and available shorly thereafter, should be cheaper. $9k? $8k? Tough to predict but $8k wouldn't exactly shock me. That said, the 90" are already around $6k right and so should also be cheaper next year.

How urgent is your situation? Can you wait 4-6 months? The danger is that in 4-6 months you'll tell yourself to wait until thanksgiving sales!

Plus as Irkuck points out that 110" 4K set looks crazy!

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post #12 of 34 Old 10-16-2013, 10:14 AM
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I don't see him dropping the 40-60k it is gonna cost for entry lol on that panel a 80" is fine from that distance but if you have a chance on a 90" panel and you can afford it I agree get that I have not even seen a 90" down here in Texas for awhile seem to be gone. As for your mention of the 844u the newer edge lit models have your typical issues with that tech if you can find. 844u for sale then take a look at it
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post #13 of 34 Old 10-17-2013, 08:29 AM
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He has low six figures in guitars hanging on his walls. I wouldn't presume that he wouldn't pony up if he felt it worthwhile.

Also, punctuation please.

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post #14 of 34 Old 10-17-2013, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pup View Post

Thank you all very kindly for your timely replies.

I have a Sony STR DA3700 ES receiver which has some decent smart access features (e.g. Amazon Prime, etc.).  The intended HDMI 1.4 signal path is:  Directv Genie => STR-DA3700ES (with pass-through) => LC-90LE657 (or something?).

I believe choosing the LC-90LE657 will be a trade-off...it is fairly expensive, only fair/good PQ, and arguably soon obsolete (non 4K)--although I have no idea when 4K will be the predominant content in my neighborhood.

I had considered waiting until the Jan-Feb timeframe (seasonal price drop) to grab a newer HDMI 2.0 spec 84-inch 4K set.  However, when choosing the 84-inch 4K over the 90-inch 1080p option--I assume the 4K set will result in a cost premium, may only provide a modest gain in real-world PQ, and "suffer" a mildly reduced  "Wow!" factor (i.e. an 84-inch display is ~14.8% smaller than a 90-inch).  I also have no doubt SD content will be quite awful with the 90-inch display.

By some of the comments, I seem to be on the right track in that a 90-inch set is an acceptable "immersion experience" size for a 12.7' viewing distance.

Have I missed any other sets/options to consider?

Hasn't it been stated that human eyes can't resolve better than 1080p from 7' or 8'+ away?

So if you're sitting 12-13' back from the screen, 4K may not do anything for you unless you plan to sit closer or stand in front of the tv while watching.

Panel-wise, if you're watching any native 1080p programs on the 90", so long as you've calibrated it prior to viewing, it's very good in terms of picture quality.

It won't be obsolete for a long while. Consider those who have recently bought the best in class 1080p plasmas and lcds that are 70"s and smaller. They probably won't be tossing them out the window just because 4K comes along.

Again, if you can afford it, the 90" won't disappoint. At least for me, it hasn't.

Best of luck though, whatever you decide upon for your new screen!
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post #15 of 34 Old 10-17-2013, 03:26 PM
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Lodit can you post maybe one or two pics of standard tv viewing if you have the time of course just so those can get a ideal of 90" pq on reg broadcast
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post #16 of 34 Old 10-17-2013, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Lodit can you post maybe one or two pics of standard tv viewing if you have the time of course just so those can get a ideal of 90" pq on reg broadcast

Yes, that would be greatly appreciated.

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post #17 of 34 Old 10-20-2013, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockmanX View Post

Lodit can you post maybe one or two pics of standard tv viewing if you have the time of course just so those can get a ideal of 90" pq on reg broadcast

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pup View Post

Yes, that would be greatly appreciated.

Standard def is not pretty.
It's watchable, but I wouldn't want to subject myself or anyone else for any extended viewing.

This tv definitely shines with 1080p content, if your source program's resolution is anything less, you might think you got ripped off.

But look at it this way: you have 90" of screen real estate that has 1920x1080 pixels.
Compared to a smaller screen, it will always look worse with a low-res source.

Get a true 1080p source program onscreen, and you'll not have any doubts that you made the right choice.

I don't even watch movies on the 65" Panny plasma anymore, even though it's rated to have better overall picture quality.

The 90" Sharp is just that much better at giving you a true home theater experience.

I guess it's the viewing distance (I sit about 10' from the screen, so the 65" tv and a good portion of the surrounding wall is fully within my view, with the 90" I'm basically in the movie) for the most part and the fact that I stopped nitpicking the details and now simply enjoy the shows.
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post #18 of 34 Old 12-01-2013, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Update:  I went with the Vizio M801d-A3 and all is well.  I will use this HDTV until 4K technology and content gets worked out.

 

The Vizio's performance is far better than I expected.

 

I am still awaiting the firmware update which should address the sluggish iR remote issues.

 

The Visio apps and processing speed are fair at best.  I bought a Roku 3 to address the Amazon Prime Instant Video app's missing "watchlist" function. I also enabled my Samsung Note 10.1 with the TouchSquid app to control everything with one touch.

 

So far, only first-world problems with no real issues of concerns to date. 

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post #19 of 34 Old 12-01-2013, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pup View Post

Update:  I went with the Vizio M801d-A3 and all is well.  I will use this HDTV until 4K technology and content gets worked out.

The Vizio's performance is far better than I expected.

I am still awaiting the firmware update which should address the sluggish iR remote issues.

The Visio apps and processing speed are fair at best.  I bought a Roku 3 to address the Amazon Prime Instant Video app's missing "watchlist" function. I also enabled my Samsung Note 10.1 with the TouchSquid app to control everything with one touch.

So far, only first-world problems with no real issues of concerns to date. 

I am just curious why nobody suggested a projector? I am debating between this set and a pj.
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post #20 of 34 Old 12-01-2013, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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"Tolerant of indirect sunlight"
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post #21 of 34 Old 12-01-2013, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
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"Tolerant of indirect sunlight"
Thanks for responding
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post #22 of 34 Old 12-11-2013, 01:35 PM
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I never really understood viewing distances. I get that the closer, the better thus bigger = better and the better to view all the details 1080p has to offer, or else you should just settle for 720p. However, the calculators seem overstated. Either that or they're out of touch with 'average sized' rooms. I mean a 65" display for a 10' viewing distance? Wow. I couldn't really imagine that. Our newly built home has a 11' wide bonus room. It's more long (25') than wide, so our only option was to mount the TV to the 11' wide side. This is the closest I've EVER sat to a TV. Living rooms are typically AT LEAST 12 feet wide, and most cases more. My last bonus room was 24x24 as it sat directly above the garage, and I wouldn't even want to know the recommended TV for 24' away, much less fitting it in the house.

I guess I just don't get it. My 46" LCD currently from 10' away in my bonus room looks plenty big. I will be upgrading soon, and am afraid that a 60" will just not look 'right.' Any advice here?
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post #23 of 34 Old 12-11-2013, 01:50 PM
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Guidelines, not gospel. Do what makes you happy.
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post #24 of 34 Old 12-11-2013, 01:54 PM
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When you say, guidelines, what are the parameters? I assume they're just not pulling numbers out of the air. I assume it's optimum viewing distance for getting the most out of the 1080p set/source?
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post #25 of 34 Old 12-11-2013, 02:11 PM
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Which brands of 70" (or larger) provide in-home service?
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post #26 of 34 Old 12-11-2013, 02:12 PM
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Whatever works IMHO. You can purchase what "they" say is best for you or purchase what makes you happy.

Some women and TV lovers say "bigger is always better". FWIW, I have a 46" TV that is 12' viewing distance.

Anyway... here's some info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_HDTV_viewing_distance
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post #27 of 34 Old 12-11-2013, 06:38 PM
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Anyway... here's some info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_HDTV_viewing_distance

Thanks for the info. In throwing out the RCA and THX recommendations and averaging the rest, looks like a 50" is perfect for my 10' viewing area. Thanks again.
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post #28 of 34 Old 12-11-2013, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I came from a 32" CRT (with a brief interlude with a 40" HDTV); and I quickly adapted to the 80" HDTV--to the point where a 90" or larger makes perfect sense (from a movie immersion perspective). After hanging the 80" on the wall, my viewing distance from eye-to-screen is ~12'8".

My wife and I are happy with the experience so far.
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post #29 of 34 Old 12-14-2013, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pup View Post

I would like the following features (in order of preference):

- Full array w/ local dimming (although a well-executed edge-lit set might suffice)
- Tolerant of indirect sunlight
- Passive 3D (although a well-executed active 3D set might suffice)

I have considered the new 4K sets, however the notional charts I have reviewed seem to indicate I would get limited benefit from the increased resolution capability at this size (80-90 inch) to distance (~152 inch) setup--irrespective of the early-adopter cost premium and scarce 4K viewing content.

The sets I am considering (in order of cursory preference):

- Sharp LC-90LE657 90-inch
- VIZIO M801d-A3 80-Inch
- Sharp LC-80LE857 80-inch  (although I understand the 2012 844 model has full array backlighting)

I am open to any and all suggestions.

I sit 15' to 16' back. Trying to make the same decision and had narrowed it down to those 3 sets as well.

I don't think the Sharp 657 90" ($8000) is full array. The 745 90" ($10,000) is. Both are also active 3D as far as I know. Sharp's website sucks, so it's hard to compare the two.
EDIT: 657 does list full array. Not sure what the extra $2k buys.

The main "advantage" of the 857 80" seems to be the quadtron thing where they do RGB + Yellow which gives colors an over saturated look. It's a disadvantage if your goal is accurate colors, but seems to be an advantage if you plan to run everything over saturated.

I haven't seen any comparisons of 90" 657 vs 745 to know if the latter is worth the price premium. $10k for 1080p TV is pretty expensive.

 

 

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post #30 of 34 Old 02-08-2014, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a photo of my setup:

 

 

The Vizio is working great--no issues or concerns to date (although I am still waiting for the firmware update).

 

I have spent some time with the DF ST-L speakers and they are definitely hitting the spot--a perfect match for my SC8000 and Mythos Ten (Center/Front L/R-High) 7.1 home theater. Great packaging--it arrived in perfect condition. Setup was easy and the sound is mighty impressive. This setup is in the informal living room and I went with consumer grade components; which seem to be working out quite well

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