Is there a LED TV that can produce plasma blacks? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 49 Old 10-22-2013, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I currently have a Samsung 64" 7000 series plasma TV. We are going to be redoing our living room and don't know if I should get a newer plasma or get a LED screen. My TV isn't old (maybe 2 years) but I can move it to my game room and replace my 43" Samsung TV.

I know it isn't an ideal location but my wife wants the TV over the fireplace (but we are planning on buying a drop down mount). One mount can only hold 70 lbs and the other can hold over 100 lbs.

Looking for 64"+ and budget wise I like to get the most for my $$$$.


Thanks for any help, been looking for a little while and I don't know what to look for.

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post #2 of 49 Old 10-23-2013, 08:37 AM
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the sharp elite has blacks equal to my previous KURO, bad news is it's out of production

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post #3 of 49 Old 10-23-2013, 08:46 AM
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Either Sharp Elite as pinktri stated or the Sony XBR950. I had the Sharp Elite for a short time and I am a previous Kuro owner. The Sharp Elite was actually better than my non-elite Kuro black level wise. You can still get one, but be prepared to pay the price. The Sony XBR950 65" can be found online from an authorized dealer for a pretty good price. I would put the Elite a bit higher than the Sony but not by much so either one will give plasma like black levels.
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post #4 of 49 Old 10-23-2013, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Dang that's it? Only a couple. Thank you for the replies.

If I'm going to be paying a good chunk for something that's as good as a plasma might as well just keep mine or upgrade to a different tv. One of the main reasons I was looking at LED was to get a larger size 70+ but I'm not wanting to lose the PQ that I'm use to.

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post #5 of 49 Old 10-23-2013, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

Dang that's it? Only a couple. Thank you for the replies.

If I'm going to be paying a good chunk for something that's as good as a plasma might as well just keep mine or upgrade to a different tv. One of the main reasons I was looking at LED was to get a larger size 70+ but I'm not wanting to lose the PQ that I'm use to.

See what is announced at CES in January. I am hoping that we will see more than one 4k 75-80" FALD set but you may not like the price.
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post #6 of 49 Old 10-23-2013, 02:00 PM
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If you want plasma quality blacks, your best bet will be a full array LED TV. Unfortunately, as the other posters have said, there are not much on the market right now. Currently the top backlit LED's are:

1. Sony HX950 (if you can find one)

2. Sharp Elite (again, very rare)

3. The new LG LA9700 (4K, so the price is steep)

However, the tech for edge lit LEDs has vastly improved over the last year. Some of 2013 top rated TVs are edge lt. Edge lit LED's wont give you the inky blacks of a backlit LED or a plasma, but new hardware and software technology, has made it possible to get VERY respectable blacks from edge LED's (plus they cost less). Here are the top edge LED's for 2013:

1. Samsung F8000 (0.05 cd/m2 black level)

2. Sony W850a (bigger version of the highly rated W900)

3. Sony X850 or X900 (4K for a decent price, difference between models is the lack of side speakers on the X850)

Personally, I think you will be more than happy with a Samsung F8000 or Sony 4K TV. However, like someone else posted, you may have better luck waiting until January to see what new TVs come out.
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post #7 of 49 Old 10-23-2013, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, thanks guys for these responses. Now I have somewhere to start looking more in depth.

I read some reviews about Vizio's LED TV's but the price and name kinda scare me. I don't think it'll produce the picture I want for my main/movie watching area. I think it was the "E" series. Are they decent for the price, or is it another "you get what you pay for".

Thank you again.

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post #8 of 49 Old 10-23-2013, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't care for the audio on the TV. I have a Denon receiver with full 7.2 full surround.

Also don't need 3D, I have it now and I've only watched 1 movie (and didn't care for it at all).

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post #9 of 49 Old 10-23-2013, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Amazon prices. These prices look about right?

Samsung F8000 $3,300

Sony W850a $2,700

Sony X850a $5,000

Sony XBR-65X900A $5,500

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post #10 of 49 Old 10-24-2013, 12:25 AM
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Yep. Sony and Samsung dealers have to adhere to UMRP pricing, so any place authorized to sell them should have the same price +/- 2-3 dollars.

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post #11 of 49 Old 10-24-2013, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

Wow, thanks guys for these responses. Now I have somewhere to start looking more in depth.

I read some reviews about Vizio's LED TV's but the price and name kinda scare me. I don't think it'll produce the picture I want for my main/movie watching area. I think it was the "E" series. Are they decent for the price, or is it another "you get what you pay for".

Thank you again.
I have a new Vizio Led (don't let the name scare you),compared to my Sammy plasma for blacks,I would rate it a 7.5 out 0f 10.

WAP 16.

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post #12 of 49 Old 10-24-2013, 07:37 AM
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To the OP, you can still get the XBR950 (65") version for a really good price from an authorized dealer online. It's way lower than what it retailed for (I think it originally went for 5k or so). Yes you will pay a bit of a premium for full array local dimming but it's worth it. As for the Elite, the 60" can also be had from a few places but again you will pay a bit of a premium. The 70" is almost impossible to find but I have seen a few used ones pop up.

Having had the Elite (and now searching for one again because what's out there doesn't compare at least to me), it's an great set. It had the best black levels I have ever seen. I have owned almost every kuro plasma except the Elite series and only my old Kuro 600m could match the Elite tv black level wise. I have never owned the XBR950 but I have been told its very close to the Elite. The Elite won't have the blooming issues of the 950 but they are minor regardless. If I wanted plasma black levels and I could stomach the extra money, I would only be looking at the 65" 950 or trying to find a 60" or 70" Elite. In my opinion, the FALD is worth an extra grand. Past that it just depends on what you want. Even the new Sony 4K sets are edge lit. Yes they are great tv's, but if you remove the 4K, the Elite still looks better (as does the XBR950).

For me I am down to an Elite again, the 950, and I am still looking at the Sony W900a. The W900a is edge lit but has pretty good black levels. I auditioned the W850A but was disappointed with the darkened corners and sides.
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post #13 of 49 Old 10-24-2013, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripod39 View Post

I have a new Vizio Led (don't let the name scare you),compared to my Sammy plasma for blacks,I would rate it a 7.5 out 0f 10.

How is it for watching sports (football)? My game room has 4 large windows, currently I have a 43" Samsung plasma and the glare gets annoying.

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post #14 of 49 Old 10-24-2013, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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To the OP, you can still get the XBR950 (65") version for a really good price from an authorized dealer online. It's way lower than what it retailed for (I think it originally went for 5k or so). Yes you will pay a bit of a premium for full array local dimming but it's worth it. As for the Elite, the 60" can also be had from a few places but again you will pay a bit of a premium. The 70" is almost impossible to find but I have seen a few used ones pop up.

Having had the Elite (and now searching for one again because what's out there doesn't compare at least to me), it's an great set. It had the best black levels I have ever seen. I have owned almost every kuro plasma except the Elite series and only my old Kuro 600m could match the Elite tv black level wise. I have never owned the XBR950 but I have been told its very close to the Elite. The Elite won't have the blooming issues of the 950 but they are minor regardless. If I wanted plasma black levels and I could stomach the extra money, I would only be looking at the 65" 950 or trying to find a 60" or 70" Elite. In my opinion, the FALD is worth an extra grand. Past that it just depends on what you want. Even the new Sony 4K sets are edge lit. Yes they are great tv's, but if you remove the 4K, the Elite still looks better (as does the XBR950).

For me I am down to an Elite again, the 950, and I am still looking at the Sony W900a. The W900a is edge lit but has pretty good black levels. I auditioned the W850A but was disappointed with the darkened corners and sides.

Buying used scares me, I don't trust people and how they say they take care of things. Is there a way to test a TV to see if it's good to go?

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post #15 of 49 Old 10-25-2013, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

Buying used scares me, I don't trust people and how they say they take care of things. Is there a way to test a TV to see if it's good to go?

I agree. I doubt I would buy used either. The only set I might buy used would be a 70" Elite and that's if it still had warranty. The 60" Elite and XBR950 can still be purchased brand new with a factory warranty. The Elite is a bit harder to find but I have seen them. You will pay a bit of a premium for the FALD but they are still quite a bit less than what they were a year ago.\

I would check for blemishes, any issues with the screen or inputs, and ask if they still have the receipt for warranty purposes.
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post #16 of 49 Old 10-25-2013, 03:22 PM
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FALD is becoming extinct because LCD quality is going backwards.

Buy a 65 inch Panasonic plasma before they sell out.

You can watch a plasma from an angle and the quality will still be there.

If you are addicted to LCD brightness then buy a Samsung f8500 64-inch plasma. It's the BRIGHTEST plasma made.

The only LCDs than can come close to plasma quality are the Sharp Elites.
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post #17 of 49 Old 10-25-2013, 06:36 PM
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I would not buy a 4K set, basically the difference between a 4K set and a good 1080P set is negligble, even if your sitting 5 feet away looking at a 70 inch screen the difference is so minor that its not worth the money. People will disagree but they have to justify spending all that money. No 4K content available on cable for years, wait for OLED.
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post #18 of 49 Old 10-25-2013, 08:05 PM
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I would not buy a 4K set, basically the difference between a 4K set and a good 1080P set is negligble, even if your sitting 5 feet away looking at a 70 inch screen the difference is so minor that its not worth the money. People will disagree but they have to justify spending all that money. No 4K content available on cable for years, wait for OLED.

If you only see a minor difference between 1080p/4K you don't have 20/20 vision. Although I agree that it is not worth $6k for one, they are rapidly declining in price. OLED is already here and will have better blacks than any LCD/Plasma but also comes with a hefty price. Best bet is to get a Panasonic Plasma if he wants the blacks. No LCD will give him that other than what has been mentioned already.

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post #19 of 49 Old 10-26-2013, 08:10 AM
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I wish IR wasn't such as issue with the Panasonic plasma line this year. I had a VT60 for a couple of week and loved the picture. It was as good or close enough to my old kuro. Problem was the IR was horrible compared to my kuro (which had no image retention at all). I still play games (as do my kids), so a plasma is not an option for me. If you don't play games and can monitor the static logos, then plasma is great. If he want the best of both worlds, the Sharp Elite/XBR950 will get him very close to a plasma without worrying about IR. VT/ZT along with the F8500 are great plasma's though.
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post #20 of 49 Old 10-26-2013, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

If you only see a minor difference between 1080p/4K you don't have 20/20 vision. Although I agree that it is not worth $6k for one, they are rapidly declining in price. OLED is already here and will have better blacks than any LCD/Plasma but also comes with a hefty price. Best bet is to get a Panasonic Plasma if he wants the blacks. No LCD will give him that other than what has been mentioned already.

I definitely see a difference when viewing 4k. I actually love the image of the Sony X900 line. I don't however like the price and the fact that they are edge lit. The Sharp Elite/XBR950 and the VT/ZT series plasmas look better overall if you take out the 4k element. It just depends on what you want and what you are willing to pay.
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post #21 of 49 Old 10-26-2013, 08:51 AM
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I would not buy any of the over priced 4k edge lit sets still suffers from the same edge lit issues. As stated the sharp elite is your best option if you can find one
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post #22 of 49 Old 10-26-2013, 09:07 AM
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I have the Lg nano FALD 1080p TV and if people want to buy cheep edge lite TV'S that what they will get.
I thought display port which would show 60 Hz for 4K TV'S could not be done, until I ran across Planar TV"S with 10 bit panels and display port at the same price as the top brands.
We just keep buying what they want to sell us! The top brands just make more money on US.
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post #23 of 49 Old 10-28-2013, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, there has been some activity in this thread. From where I sit I don't think 4K will be on my "wish list". 1080p looks perfectly fine to me, unless 4K drops in price soon I'll probably just stay away.

Sorry if this is dumb question but what is FALD?

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post #24 of 49 Old 10-28-2013, 09:58 PM
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Sorry if this is dumb question but what is FALD?

Full Array Local Dimming, which seems to be on it's way out.
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post #25 of 49 Old 10-29-2013, 06:09 AM
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I own a Sony HX850 and I will say it come's close to having plasma like blacks, very close in fact and its edge lit with local dimming. I would also say the HX950 comes very close as well. But both sets are discontinued and Full array LED is pretty much gone which the 950 was. You can still find them online though for good prices. Cant go wrong with either one if you can find them.
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post #26 of 49 Old 10-29-2013, 06:13 AM
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How is it for watching sports (football)? My game room has 4 large windows, currently I have a 43" Samsung plasma and the glare gets annoying.
I have 2 large windows-glare is minimal.All sports including hockey is excellent in my opinion.The menu options for setting up your custom pic is great.

WAP 16.

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post #27 of 49 Old 10-29-2013, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
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How is it for watching sports (football)? My game room has 4 large windows, currently I have a 43" Samsung plasma and the glare gets annoying.
I have 2 large windows-glare is minimal.


Same here tripod. My HX850 has the Gorilla Glass and glare is minimal for me as well. I should also say I have 2 large windows not 4, lol
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post #28 of 49 Old 10-29-2013, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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So FALD is on its way out, along with Panasonic Plasma. Anything else going out? Would hate to buy a new TV and have them shut production down making the warranty useless.

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post #29 of 49 Old 10-29-2013, 06:30 PM
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[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

So FALD is on its way out, along with Panasonic Plasma. Anything else going out? Would hate to buy a new TV and have them shut production down making the warranty useless.


There is no official word on FALD completely on its way out that I know of, it's mainly speculation. As for Panasonic, they aren't going out of business , they are just stopping Plasma production by next year. On the contrary you might want to snatch one up, since they will be the last of the best breeds, just like Pioneer Elite Kuros.

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post #30 of 49 Old 10-29-2013, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

So FALD is on its way out, along with Panasonic Plasma. Anything else going out? Would hate to buy a new TV and have them shut production down making the warranty useless.


There is no official word on FALD completely on its way out that I know of, it's mainly speculation. As for Panasonic, they aren't going out of business , they are just stopping Plasma production by next year. On the contrary you might want to snatch one up, since they will be the last of the best breeds, just like Pioneer Elite Kuros.[/quote]



Latino Sony pretty much confirmed at the beginning of the year that full array led was on its way out due to cost saving measures. I agree though if the guy wants a good Plasma set he better get one now especially if its a Panasonic.
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