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post #361 of 484 Old 01-09-2014, 07:53 PM
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I've read several definitions for 'ghosting'.
What I'm referring to is a tracer effect behind moving objects.
I've also read that lowering contrast and/or increasing brightness helps but the other issue I have with this set is posterization and setting my contrast rather high helps that.
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post #362 of 484 Old 01-09-2014, 09:58 PM
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First post. Thanks to all on this thread, since it has been helpful to me.

 

I bought this TV on sale at Best Buy. With all the discounts (discover card 5% + 5%, $50 for picking it up), I think I paid somewhere around $940 after tax. Cheap. Crazy cheap I suppose.

 

I've tried to adjust it using Spears & Muncil. I'm no video pro, but I can follow directions and my eye is ok. I haven't been able to get it to do everything that the S&M disk tells you to, but it's close.

 

Unfortunately, I still get visible gradients on the screen. For example, in the loading screens for Amazon Instant Video, I can see the marked changes in gray on the screen. And when watching video, I can often see the gradation in the shadows. I've switched back and forth between this TV and my old panasonic viera just to check, and I've confirmed it's not happening on the other TV.

 

So I'm wondering... is this just a crappy budget TV that I should return, or am I simply not skilled enough to adjust it?

 

Tons of thanks in advance to anybody that provides any helpful advice!

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post #363 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 01:50 AM
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Try posting your settings so we can see if anything looks strange.

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post #364 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 07:11 AM
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i've tried quite a few different settings, but i can't get the gradients to disappear. i wonder if i'm missing something basic.

 

here's what i have now:

Mode: Movie

Backlight: 20

Contrast: 80

Brightness: 47

Sharpness: 12

Color: 51

Tint (G/R): G50/R50

 

Color Space: Auto

White Balance: default

Gamma: 0

Dynamic Contrast: Off

Black Tone: Off

Flesh Tone: +2 (seems like this can only be adjusted sometimes, can't remember when)

Motion Lighting: Off (same as above)

 

Color Tone: Standard

Digital Noise Filter: Low

HDMI Black Level: Normal (seems like i can't change this)

Film Mode: Off (seems like i can't change this)

Auto Motion Plus

   Blur Reduction: 10

   Judder Reduction: 1

LED Motion Plus: Off

 

Thanks again for any advice. Much appreciated.

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post #365 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 08:42 AM
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That all looks fairly normal except the backlight is extreme. Not sure if it will help with the problem but try the backlight at about 15. Most people get the best contrast at 100 too so that will help brighten the picture if 15 backlight seems dim to you.
Also Movie mode doesnt look good for may people. Try those settings with Standard mode.
Also most people use Clear on Auto Motion Plus.

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post #366 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 08:52 AM
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I initially tried by copying some of the settings listed earlier in this thread (which basically follow your advice). So I have tried those things. If I put contrast anywhere near 100 then the Spears & Muncil disk says it's WAY too high (i can barely see any of the bars). But of course then my brightness goes way down and that matches your advice better, too.

 

But even with those settings, I'm still seeing very noticeable gradients (instead of smooth color changes), especially in dark areas. It looks pixelated basically. :(

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post #367 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 09:06 AM
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To be clear theres nothing wrong with the brightness setting. Its the contrast thats too low. And backlight is another thing altogether.
Do you see gradation with all sources? Its usually source related.
Also I wanna stress that Movie mode looks really bad for me regardless of settings.

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post #368 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 09:35 AM
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yea, i'm seeing the gradient with all sources, which include a PS3 for blu-ray stuff and my comcast box. the PS3 has been adjusted accordingly (seems like folks pretty much agree on what has to happen for that to be good, and it was initially incorrect so i fixed it early on in the process).

 

i'm certainly not ruling out that it's source-related, but i've tested it with my panasonic TV and i don't get the gradients on any source. so it *seems* like it's the tv.

 

i've just done another test with the contrast way up and i'm still seeing them. :(

 

i'd really like to like this tv since it was so reasonably priced.

 

edit: oh, and i tried in Standard instead of Movie - looks different definitely. but still get the pixelated gradient. :(

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post #369 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 09:45 AM
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Hate to say it but if it bothers you enough you might want to exchange it.

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post #370 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 09:48 AM
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yea, i know. :( blah. it does bother me just 'cause it looks cheap. was just trying to figure out if i was making some sort of rookie mistake. i have until 1/15. but i'd have to rent a bloody truck to get the behemoth back to the store. ironic.

 

anyways... if you (or anybody) have any other hints, i'm all ears. i'm very grateful for your help in any case - thanks!

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post #371 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 09:49 AM
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I'll think on it. Good luck.

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post #372 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 10:08 AM
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Isnt the gradient the color banding weve all seen thats related to it being an 8bit processor?
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post #373 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 10:11 AM
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well... i'm a computer guy, not a tv guy. it certainly LOOKS like the kind of thing that happens when your computer graphics card or monitor is functioning at a lower-than-desired resolution. but i thought all these modern TVs were way past that sort of problem by now. perhaps i'm wrong about that?

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post #374 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 11:27 AM
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I have an issue with the gradient/posterizing as well.
I turrned the contrast close to 100 and the set the Dynamic Contrast to high. It helped quite a bit.
It still feels like a band-aid though.
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post #375 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 11:49 AM
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Somewhere in this thread it was mentioned a few times that this set uses the 8bit processing for color which is why your seeing the color banding on gradients. The panasonic you have probably uses 16bit. Correct me if im wrong but the higher the bit the more color shades can be shown therefor eliminating color banding.
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post #376 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 01:05 PM
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I also get this posterization or color banding. It's not really all the time. But most noticeable in menus like the Amazon Instant Video and Call of Duty Ghosts. Is this normal for others with this TV also. Haven't noticed any ghosting though. I would hate to to return the TV though. I think I had it also on my smaller 37" Samsung, but it's just more noticeable now because of the larger screen.

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post #377 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 04:36 PM
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re bit depth, that is how it works on computers, so i assume it's the same on TVs. but honestly, 8 bit is REALLY REALLY low these days. the picture quality is crazy-worse w/ 8bit compared to 16bit, so i'm frankly surprised that anything still uses 8bit. i didn't even realize that i had to check for that on TVs. if that's the issue, then this puppy is definitely going back. 8bit is the pits.

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post #378 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 11:01 PM
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Just realized something BIG on mine while using the WOW disc.
My 'Size' has been set to 16:9 rather than Screen Fit.
Immediate difference in sports once set to 'Screen Fit'.

doh
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post #379 of 484 Old 01-10-2014, 11:06 PM
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is sports better in Screen Fit?

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post #380 of 484 Old 01-11-2014, 06:16 AM
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16:9 stretches the HD image, cuts off about a half inch all the way around.
Screen Fit adjusts correctly for HD, so it seems.
16:9 was messing up the test screen on the WOW disc, caused banding in the grey areas.
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post #381 of 484 Old 01-11-2014, 06:18 AM
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Interesting. I will see if that makes a difference for me as well. Thanks for the info.

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post #382 of 484 Old 01-11-2014, 10:32 AM
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Loom3 - did you try the "PC" settings I'm using?

First you need to label the input as "PC".

Menu -> Hit down to highlight "Input" -> Relabel the HDMI input you are using as "PC".

If your input is correct (ideally 1080p60); hit Menu->Enter->Enter and you should see the modes "Entertain" and "Standard", select Standard.

Then my personal settings are:
Backlight 12
Contrast 90
Brightness 40
Sharpness 50 - (Important: If you aren't labeling the input as "PC" , or if you don't see the mode "Entertain", you should have sharpness very low, 0-5)
Advanced Settings -> Gamma -2
Picture Options -> Warm1
Picture Options -> Size 16:9
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post #383 of 484 Old 01-11-2014, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizman7 View Post

Well I returned my 65" Panasonic S60 for this set. The linebleed was just killing me on the S60, great colors/blacks but completely nullified by constant lines and bars thru the picture. Not to mention the constant threat of burn-in (ok IR) looming around every menu that was on the screen for more than 30secs

I got an open box one of these for $947 this past Friday, so not too bad.

First impression of this set....ehhh....a tad disappointed. I was expecting it to be near the picture quality of the plasma (when it didn't have lines thru it), but at first glance this seemed a bit "off" from what I was expecting. There is some color-banding here and there, but that doesn't really bother me that much, but I did observe it here and there from time to time. The more I used it the more I got use to the set in general but it still felt "off". I used some settings from this post but still didn't feel right, but was better than it was out of the box.

I used it for a day and half, still unsure about it. I finally got off my lazy ass I pulled out the DVE HD Basic calibration disc and went to work. I didn't feel like I was changing much but once I went back to actually using it, YEAH it made a HUGE difference! HIGHLY recommend anyone getting this set get a calibration disc and use it, no 2 TVs are exactly the same, so using someone's settings will only get you so far.

I'm VERY happy with the results of my calibration, this thing definitely need it, and I'm happy with the set. No, it doesn't have the picture quality of the plasma, but its pretty good, and definitely better than my 6yr old Sony DLP I was trying to replace. Oh the blacks are pretty good on this thing, but grey-scale is just "ok", occasionally on dark grey screens I notice "light bleed" from the left and right sides but I think it's more just the handling of grey gradation actually, as I really only see it on a few XB1 menus, when the screen is black, it is BLACK. So not really a big deal but thought I'd point it out.

Here are my settings below after my calibration. As hard as it might be to use it, I'd turn off Black Tone, it makes black blacker, but it also crushes out some of dark grey's that are almost but not quite black, as I found out playing with it on the Contrast test pattern. I calibration Dynamic, Standard, and Movie, and I think I like Standard the best, Movie seemed to yellow but I was using Warm2, and Dynamic was TOO bright.

Standard Mode:

Blacklight - 12
Contrast - 100
Brightness - 44
Sharpness - 0
Color -38
Tint - G60/R40

Advanced:
Color Space - Auto
White Balance - just defaults of all 25, need to find a pattern to adjust these properly
Gamma - -2
Dynamic Contrast - Off
Black Tone - Off
Flesh Tone - Off
Motion Lighting - Off

Picture Options:
Color Tone - Standard
Size - Screen Fit
Digital Noise Filter - Off
HDMI Black Level - Low (I thought I had this on Normal but guess now, may re-calibration on Normal later)
Film Mode - Off (greyed out)
Auto Motion Plus - Clear
LED Motion Plus - Off

My calibration settings for the other two modes are different than these, but I thought I'd just share what I thought was the best one, but if people want them I can share them. But again, no 2 sets are exactly a like so I'd recommend getting a calibration disc. Mine is not bad, but I'm going to get another with some more indepth patterns probably.

Sorry kind of all over the place, typing this in a hurry. In short, this TV is a GREAT value, it doesn't have the "BEST" picture quality, but if you calibrate I think you'll be very happy with it, especially for the price! (Well when it's on sale).

One random note, I use an HD antenna and I noticed if I turned backlight up beyond 15 it started messing up my HD signal from the antenna. I wouldn't want it that high anyway, but thought that was weird.

Thanks hope this helps, I'm pretty happy with this TV and glad to be away from the stress and worry of that damn plasma.


Best setting for me so far, except for sharpness is at 6 for me.

 

And guy's, don't forget to put Picture Options: Size at Screen Fit and not 16/9, beacause 16/9 stretch the image.

 

Thanks @Dizman7

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post #384 of 484 Old 01-11-2014, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdouble99 View Post


And guy's, don't forget to put Picture Options: Size at Screen Fit and not 16/9, beacause 16/9 stretch the image.

Thanks @Dizman7

Depends on the source. When running under "pc/dvi" mode 16:9 keeps xbmc from stretching off the screen.
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post #385 of 484 Old 01-11-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikey View Post


Wow - thats not cool. Here is what Ive settled at for now. I am using HDMI black level LOW along with slightly higher brightness setting & a gamma bump. I like the black level depth & detail a little better now. Its still a weakness of this set but its worth trying. Here are my settings as of last night that I *think* Im happy with for most viewing.

Mode: Standard
Backlight: 8
Contrast: 97
Brightness: 47
Sharpness: 5
Color: 46
Tint (G/R): G52/R48

[ADVANCED SETTINGS]
- Color Space: Native
- White Balance: No changes
- Gamma: +2(this is with using HDMI black level LOW)
- Dynamic Contrast: Off
- Black Tone: Darkest
- Flesh Tone: -7
- Motion Lighting: Off

[PICTURE OPTIONS]
- Color Tone: Standard
- Size: 16x9
- Digital Noise Filter: Auto
- HDMI Black Level: Low(this works better IMO with gamma +2 and a brightness of 47)
- Film mode: Auto
- Auto Motion Plus:CLEAR
- LED Motion Plus: Off

See what ya think and give these a shot. Im still not 100% sure yet on the Auto Motion setting.... Clear seems good but I feel like I still have to mess with this.
I've been using these settings. Except I have gamma back at 0 and DNF off.

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post #386 of 484 Old 01-11-2014, 03:05 PM
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Picked this up for $999 the other day at Best Buy. Replacing a 60 inch 2006 Sony SXRD that is on it's 3rd Optical Block and have been living with the greenish/yellow donut again for quite some time. This seems like a great deal since I paid close to $3K for that one!

Just out of the box my wife's first comment was "I feel like I'm watching a bad spanish soap opera"... So I am trying to dial it in some with all the settings you guys have posted here. Hope it works out since it seems to be a pretty good deal for a 65" LED.
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post #387 of 484 Old 01-11-2014, 03:08 PM
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my wife said the same thing. i used some settings posted early in the thread and fixed that problem.

 

but i STILL am getting gradient color-banding stuff. i'm really surprised this isn't bothering people 'cause to me it looks absolutely awful. i guess just 'cause it scream "CHEAP." i understand it to be an effect of the 8bit color chip or something, but unless i can fix it in the next 49 hours, it's going back.

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post #388 of 484 Old 01-11-2014, 06:17 PM
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Here's an example of what I see.
How can you tell if it's using 8 bit?
Also, my HDMI Black setting is always grayed out.

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post #389 of 484 Old 01-11-2014, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owangolama View Post

my wife said the same thing. i used some settings posted early in the thread and fixed that problem.

but i STILL am getting gradient color-banding stuff. i'm really surprised this isn't bothering people 'cause to me it looks absolutely awful. i guess just 'cause it scream "CHEAP." i understand it to be an effect of the 8bit color chip or something, but unless i can fix it in the next 49 hours, it's going back.

You can lesson the banding with some picture adjustments but it wont ever go completely away. Its gonna be better with stronger video signals it seems but it will always be there. I hardly ever notice it anymore.

For me i wanted a big screen and good picture on movies and at the price i paid i got just what i wanted. Im more of a sound quality and effects person than picture person. Even my previous panasonic that was way over priced has some banding which is why i dont plan on spending that much on a tv again until i find one with absolutely no defects.

And yes loom that banding is due to the color processing. Not sure how to verify the processor besides knowing 8bit produces banding, higher bits not so much.
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post #390 of 484 Old 01-11-2014, 07:27 PM
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a good place to see the banding (if you're TRYING to see it) is in something like a PS3 screen or an Amazon Instant Video screen (when it's loading or when you're picking videos). they have gradient grays that are particularly susceptible. but i also notice it a lot in shadowy places in normal video. it does seem true that it can be reduced, but i can't get rid of it, and thus the picture is so much worse than my older panasonic viera that it feels like a downgrade.

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