Best budget 60 inch LED? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 11-30-2013, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello! It's my first time posting here at AVS Forum.

I'm looking for a new TV for my living room. I've currently got a 43 inch Samsung plasma, but it's too small for my liking and the glare is atrocious. On top of that, it only supports up to 720p/1080i.

I'm looking for 60 inch LED set to replace my aging plasma. I know some folks like to recommend plasma for better color and black levels, but the TV is going to be in a large, bright room which also features a few hanging light fixtures that are directly in the reflection when sitting down. Hence my desire to minimize the glare.

Things I want:

-120hz
-1080p
-LED back-lit (instead of edge lit)

Things I don't want or definitely don't want to pay a premium for:

-3d
-Smart enabled (already have apps on DVD player and xbox)

The TV will mostly be used for watching live sports and gaming.

Really, I'm just looking for the best 2d to picture I can get. I don't need a ton of HDMI ports either since I have a receiver.

Budget is $1,000 or less, so I know that will limit me.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 31 Old 12-01-2013, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Bumping this to see if I can get any responses.

 

I went around to a few local Best Buys today, and associates at both of the places I visited recommended this...

 

Sharp - LC-60LE650U - $999 - AQUOS - 60" Class (60-1/32" Diag.) - LED - 1080p - 120Hz - Smart - HDTV

 

I reminded them that I didn't need Smart functionality, so I was directed to this...

 

Sharp - LC-60LE550U - $899 - AQUOS - 60" Class (60" Diag.) - LED - 1080p - 120Hz - HDTV

 

I looked up the brochures on the Sharp website, and both tvs had the same display specs, though they were not very detailed.

 

I know that both of these TVs are edge lit with their LEDs, but I thought the picture quality was good in the store. What else could I run into later on that I wouldn't notice right away in the store?

 

I feel like $899 is a good value for what I need, but I don't want to make a bad decision.

 

Any input is appreciated.

 

Thanks

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post #3 of 31 Old 12-01-2013, 08:27 PM
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Angle viewing on both of those is really bad. The screen washes out. The 550 is really hard to calibrate. The pictures very dull. Also on any edge light your likely to get clouding or flashlighting.

Try the samsung eh model un60eh6003. Its 1099 but much better than the 2 sharps your looking at.

The lg 60" 5600 has a beautiful picture and no clouding or flashlighting but be cautious of vertical banding and the abl. I just returned one due to banding and abl. Each set is different so they wont all suffer the same banding effects. As for the abl flicker, I doubt my experience was normal.


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post #4 of 31 Old 12-02-2013, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingzfan61 View Post

Angle viewing on both of those is really bad. The screen washes out. The 550 is really hard to calibrate. The pictures very dull. Also on any edge light your likely to get clouding or flashlighting.

Try the samsung eh model un60eh6003. Its 1099 but much better than the 2 sharps your looking at.

The lg 60" 5600 has a beautiful picture and no clouding or flashlighting but be cautious of vertical banding and the abl. I just returned one due to banding and abl. Each set is different so they wont all suffer the same banding effects. As for the abl flicker, I doubt my experience was normal.


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How is that model you mentioned better than this one? Is it the same?

 

Samsung - UN60EH6003FXZA - $999 - 60" Class (60" Diag.) - LED - 1080p - 120Hz - HDTV

 

Can you explain what makes it better than the Sharps I mentioned? I understand the edge light issue and viewing angle, but what does the Samsung do differently that beats it?

 

Is the Samsung direct lit, or full array lit, instead of edge lit?

 

Sorry if these seem like basic questions... I consider myself fairly tech savvy, but these TV issues are over my head.

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post #5 of 31 Old 12-02-2013, 11:42 AM
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Thats the one, they must have put it on sale yesterday.

Its direct lit led so you minimize clouding and flashlighting issues significantly and since the led's are behind the screen the off angle view is massivley better
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post #6 of 31 Old 12-02-2013, 11:59 AM
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The 1000 budget will be the bottleneck here for a 60 full backlit. Check out Vizio's XVT (I think thtas correct) series, full backlit tv's. Still may be above budget though.
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post #7 of 31 Old 12-02-2013, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingzfan61 View Post

Thats the one, they must have put it on sale yesterday.

Its direct lit led so you minimize clouding and flashlighting issues significantly and since the led's are behind the screen the off angle view is massivley better

What about that vs. the FH that is $100 cheaper? Is that the same screen panel?

 

I'd post a link but apparently I'm too new to do that, so all my linked posts have to get approved by mods.

 

Also - for what it's worth, I know that the EH model has optical out, and the FH does not, but I have an AV receiver, so I don't think that would be an issue for me.

 

Thanks.

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post #8 of 31 Old 12-02-2013, 12:37 PM
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As far as im aware the optical out is the only difference. Panel wise its a toss up on which brand you get. Either samsung, aou, sharp or lg.
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post #9 of 31 Old 12-02-2013, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingzfan61 View Post

Thats the one, they must have put it on sale yesterday.

Its direct lit led so you minimize clouding and flashlighting issues significantly and since the led's are behind the screen the off angle view is massivley better

From what I understand, there are basically 3 kinds of LED lit displays.

1) Good - Edge lit. When dimming occurs, columns, or large sections of the screen will dim and areas that are dark can be too bright. Edge bleed can also be a factor with this style.

2) Better - Direct back light. There are a bunch of LED back lights that will dim and brighten all together. This means that you don't have "splotchiness," but the entire screen will dim, even areas that are not supposed to. Edge bleed is not a factor.

3) Best - Independent or sectioned back lights. These work like #2, but the individual lights (or sections of them) can brighten and dim independently, so dark areas of the screen can be dark, and light areas of the screen can be bright.

So, I have 2 questions:

First, is my understanding laid in the three points above correct?

Second, what kind of lighting system do the EH and FH suggested Samsung models have?

And if anyone has one of these models, can you chime in about the glare? That is one of my biggest factors here as my current TV glares horribly and the room is brightly lit. Additionally there's not really another wall I can put it on so I have to work with what I have.

Thanks.
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post #10 of 31 Old 12-03-2013, 05:25 AM
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Yes those definitions are correct.

The samsung eh and fh 60 and 65" models are direct lit. I have an fh 65 and havent had an issue with it dimming improperly.

As for glare, its been a bit better than the lg, and panasonic I had but the sharp screen was slightly better at displacing glare. I ended up tinting the one window that caused me glare so now its a non factor.
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post #11 of 31 Old 01-19-2014, 06:30 PM
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Greetings, I'm in the market for roughly the same animal, upgrading from a 37" to 60".  I play a lot of video games and of course movies and tv.  Switching and "Smarts" can be handled by my receiver, PS3 or computer.  So my only real criteria is size and preferably not something as junky as my 37" Magnavox that has had problems since day one.  Ambient light will be an issue as the room is basically a sun room, floor to ceiling glass on most walls and skylight with vaulted ceilings, though there are blinds for all but the skylight and corner windows of the vaulted ceiling.  Picture quality is important but so is affordability and I'm far more of an audiophile than videophile...  So far I'm looking at a Sharp AQUOS 60" 1080P LED 120Hz HDTV - LC-60LE452U for $747 probably less as they beat prices and others on AVS are speaking of $650 (whoa...almost 10 dollars an inch):

 

http://www.abt.com/product/74640/Sharp-LC60LE452U.html

 

Now this thread made me consider the only two concerns I could think of with this TV; it's edge-lit and I'm not sure of the viewing angle.  Though there is another thread on AVS here:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1495400/sharp-60-aquos-lc60le450u-new-lower-end-tv

 

Seems for the most part people like the TV and I can pick it up for about what I paid for my 37" Magnavox some years ago.  The size is rather important as the room is pretty large about 16' wide x 35' long, with viewing going the length of the room.  The size of the room may play into the need for a wider viewing angle I suppose, though I'm usually the only one watching it and I sit centered.  Now I'm not suggesting I will be sitting 33' away from the screen, but a 37" TV is pretty Lilliputian.

 

So let me know what you think about this well under $1000 60" LED TV. 

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post #12 of 31 Old 01-20-2014, 05:10 AM
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Its the same as the sharp I tried a while back and I ended up returning it. The off angle viewing was bad, really bad. Everything washed out and looked horrible. That was at about 60 degrees. It doesnt sound like you'd be that far off angle so may be ok for you. The other issues I had were the screen uniformity with edge lit is hit or miss. I couldnt stand the clouding on dark screens which eventually led me to backlit tv's. Picture quality wasnt too bad but I did encounter some significant light banding on bright scenes. Ive later learned to deal with that because every TV I tried has had it.

If you want another model to compare with check out the LG 5600. Its a 60" under $1000. I returned that one due to screen flicker which eventually turned out to be a setting on my htpc. Had I known then what was causing it Id have kept it but I ended up with a 65" samsung that also has its issues but it was $860 and I got tired of returning stuff.

Anyways, you truly will get what you pay for so dont expect $2000 quality for under $1000. That deal just isnt out there.
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post #13 of 31 Old 01-21-2014, 12:55 PM
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Thanks for the thoughts.  Indeed the 5600 is interesting, however it's $50 more 5" smaller and has "smart" features which are not of any particular interest to me.  I'm really looking to find the best choice in the sub $800 60" LED LCDs. Indeed the choices are limited, however there are more options when considering Mfr Refurbs with new product warranties. 

 

I have found quite a few bad words about the Sharp Aquos I originally mentioned.  Then I came across this for $700 new (not refurb):

 

Seiki 60" Class 1080p 60Hz LED HDTV SE60GY24

http://www.sears.com/seiki-60inch-class-1080p-60hz-led-hdtv-se60gy24/p-05771109000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

 

 

Seems to get better reviews though it is only 60Hz.

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post #14 of 31 Old 01-21-2014, 04:13 PM
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That lg is a 60". One thing to consider about smart features is even though you dont want them youll get a better processor with smart tv's over non smart tv's. Better processor generally results in a better picture.

Just a thought. But the lg i was referring to is the 60ln5600 60".
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post #15 of 31 Old 01-21-2014, 04:24 PM
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Just looked up that seiki you posted. Its only got a 5,000:1 contrast ratio. That is WAY too low. Most led's have 3,000,000:1 and up. Your gonna have no definition on anything dark.
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post #16 of 31 Old 01-21-2014, 04:49 PM
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Excuse me, now I see the 60" which looks to be more like $1000? 

 

That's an interesting point about the "smart" features and the faster processor, hadn't though about that. 

 

Good point about the Seiki as well.

 

Here's an inexpensive 60" LED from RCA, 120 Hz and Backlit, could only find two short customer reviews, bot were positive:  And it seems other RCAs got decent reviews

 

RCA 60" Class 1080p 120Hz LED HDTV - LED60B55R120Q

http://www.sears.com/rca-60inch-class-1080p-120hz-led-hdtv-led60b55r120q/p-05771294000P

 

120Hz Rear Lit FULL HDTV | 120Hz Refresh Rate | 2 HDMI | Resolution: 1920 x 1080 | Respones time 6.5ms | Dynamic Contrast: 5000:1

 

 

I see it has the same 5000:1 contrast ratio as the Seiki. 

 

So these seem to be the only options in this sub $800 price range. 

 

Sharp AQUOS 60" 1080P LED 120Hz HDTV - LC60LE452U/ Full HD 1080p (1920x1080) Resolution/ 3,000,000:1 Dynamic Contrast Ratio/ 120Hz Refresh Rate/ Optical Picture Control (OPC)/ Enhanced Noise Reduction/ USB/ Black Finish

http://www.abt.com/product/74640/Sharp-LC60LE452U.html

 

Seiki 60" Class 1080p 60Hz LED HDTV SE60GY24

http://www.sears.com/seiki-60inch-class-1080p-60hz-led-hdtv-se60gy24/p-05771109000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

 

 

And the RCA above..  I really have no intention of spending $1000, maximum $850.  All three of these units I could get for close to $700 from the local shops.  None of these issues deep blacks or otherwise really incline me to spend 25% more, when in 3-5 years when the set will probably die on its own, something that much more glamorous will come along. 

 

So my humble question would be of the three (or any other sub $800 60") would you pick?  The Sharp Aquos, The Seiki, or the RCA?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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post #17 of 31 Old 01-21-2014, 04:55 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't contrast ratios like 5000:1 Static Contrast and ratios like 5,000,000:1 are Dynamic Contrast?  And if so, are those numbers not comparable?

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post #18 of 31 Old 01-21-2014, 04:57 PM
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http://reviews.cnet.com/best-60-63-inch-tvs/

Have you looked here yet? And ignore manufacturer contrast ratio specs. It's all a bunch of nonsense. The truth is that 3000:1 and 3,000,000:1 are arbitrary numbers. Typical LED LCD contrast ratios in your price range and size is anywhere between 1000:1 or 2000:1. Even cheaper will have sub 1000:1. Some LED's may have up to 4000:1 contrast ratios but at the expense of worse gamma (loss of shadow detail).

The truth is high end LEDs actually have about 3000:1 contrast ratios and the best plasmas can have over 20,000:1.


PVA/S-PVA panels achieve much higher simultaneous contrast than other panel technology like IPS. Contrast is the brightest white luminance divided by the deepest black luminance for those who don't know. Simultaneous contrast is when both bright whites and deep blacks are displayed on the screen at once which gives a better indication of the inner scene contrast a television is able to produce. This is also known as the "native" contrast ratio.

Samsung F8000:
Black level 0.10 cd/m2
Brightness 293 cd/m2
Contrast ratio 2930:1

LG LA8600:
Black level 0.22 cd/m2
Brightness 245 cd/m2
Contrast ratio 1114:1

Source: FlatPanelsHD

Both of these televisions are very expensive high end LED televisions and look at the contrast ratio differences. Panasonic's LEDs perform even worse than the LG in terms of contrast. Believe it or not, the lower end LGs and Panasonics actually have an even worse contrast ratio. If you're concerned about contrast ratio, stay away from LG and Panasonic (LED). They have chronically underperformed in contrast levels due to their commitment to IPS panels in favor of viewing angles where as Sony and Samsung and Phillips commit to PVA or S-PVA panels in favor of higher contrast but poorer viewing angles.
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post #19 of 31 Old 01-22-2014, 07:47 PM
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That's was my understanding as well, that the numbers can't be trusted. I'm not personally concerned with any specific factor other than picking the optimal sub-$800 choice.

I found the Vizio E601i-A3 for $759:

http://store.vizio.com/e601ia3.html


Seems to get decent write ups.

So we got Vizio vs RCA vs Sharp? Not a lot of write ups on the RCA also nothing bad I've seen...though I've not seen many RCA LCDs in general. Definitely some bad write ups on the Sharp and the Vizio seems to get OK write ups. People seem to suggest that Sharp is better than Vizio and again I found nothing regarding RCA. Oh and the Seiki which seemed to get decent write ups, seems they are more well known across the pond.

So of those four what do you guys think?
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post #20 of 31 Old 01-23-2014, 03:18 AM
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Physically look at the vizio and the sharp in store and see which one you prefer. Change the setting on it to movie mode though so you get a true feel for how itll look.
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post #21 of 31 Old 01-23-2014, 08:02 AM
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Thanks again wingz. Haven't been able to find anyone with both on display. I've heard statements that Sharp is a better brand than Vizio but the Vizio in this case seems to get much better reviews,
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post #22 of 31 Old 01-23-2014, 09:08 AM
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OK now I found Samsung UN60Fh6003 at Sears for $750. Now correct me if I'm wrong but Samsung is a better name than the others referenced previously? This unit seems to get good reviews and also has a full thread dedicated to it elsewhere on this board.

So probably the Samsung would be the way to go?
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post #23 of 31 Old 01-23-2014, 09:34 AM
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I purchased this TV as a secondary bedroom display when Best buy had it for $699 before Christmas: Sharp 60" Aquos LC60LE450U

Decent budget 60", mine had good uniformity and very little clouding. Color was not very accurate however.
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post #24 of 31 Old 01-23-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanK42 View Post

OK now I found Samsung UN60Fh6003 at Sears for $750. Now correct me if I'm wrong but Samsung is a better name than the others referenced previously? This unit seems to get good reviews and also has a full thread dedicated to it elsewhere on this board.

So probably the Samsung would be the way to go?

This is only my personal experience and opinion so bo offense to those who disagree. Out of the 3 you posted Id go with the samsung. I ended up with the 65" version and yes it isnt perfect but its the one that made me the happiest after trying the others.
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post #25 of 31 Old 01-23-2014, 04:54 PM
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Turns out that the nearest Sears with one of them is about 250 miles away. Dont know that the drive is worth $200. But someone out there may still be able to grab one of these deals.

So looks like its back to the Visio, RCA, Sharp, Seiki choice..

Elvis, Sharp was kinda where I started my journey and may end up coming full around again.

Does anyone have any thoughts on Seiki and RCA? I really have never encountered either in the wild, only in the stores.
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post #26 of 31 Old 01-24-2014, 10:17 AM
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I'm in an identical situation. My wife wants my kids' gaming systems out of the living room. We only have a 2011 40" Insignia LCD (has a decent panel in it, though) there now.

I plan on buying a 55 or 60 inch one. The room is bright in the day so I'm stuck with LCD. I'd actually prefer a matte finish, too, but there aren't many choices for those. I figured Super Bowl sales would be prime time, but there wasn't many good sales that I found yet.

I'd like to stick to $1000 but would consider bumping it up if the product warrants it. I have a TIVO and Blu-ray player with enough smart features so technically I don't need my TV to be smart, too, although I realize the manufactures put the better screens in those products. I don't have a 3d source, so 3d isn't really necessary. If it did have 3d, I'd prefer passive over active. Given our seating arrangement it would be nice if the viewing angle wasn't horrible, but at this price I don't expect much. I also need an audio out as I use a sound bar.

Cnet seems like a good place to start: http://reviews.cnet.com/best-60-63-inch-tvs/

The Panasonic plasma recommended by Cnet was tempting, but I don't think it would work with the lighting in our room. Plus they are becoming hard to find.

The Sharp LC-60LE650 is on sale now at BBY for $900. Even though it is only $750, I wouldn't get the 450 series because it doesn't have enough adjustments from what I've read. The Sharp 650 is probably my current front-runner. The LC-60LE857U is on sale for $1500 now, too. Not sure if the extra features (Quatron, 240 hz, 3d) is worth the difference to me, though. For $1500 the 70" version of the 650 model might be available.

Cnet also listed the Vizio E series as a decent low end panel. It is only $800 at BBY and maybe WalMart. The QWERTY remote is a smart addition for these TVs with apps. I think the $1300 M-series is the cheapest panel of this size with local dimming, but I'm not sure how effective it would be. It seems Vizio has more stories of reliability issues when reading, but that is hard to confirm.

Samsungs always come up, too, although it seems unless you are willing to spend $2k, the quality of the lower end ones are no better than the Sharp and Vizio models. Can anybody comment on that? The F6300/F6400 seems to be about the lowest quality that would compare here.

I'm going to head into BBY and have a look in-person to see what sticks out.
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post #27 of 31 Old 01-24-2014, 10:58 AM
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Very few reviewers will recommend the Samsung TV's between the F5000 and the F8000. If you're interested in Samsung, go for the F5000 or the F8000. The F5000 has a deeper black and out performs some of the mid range TV's in contrast ratio. The F5000 is a GREAT value. CNET praises it for it's value.
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post #28 of 31 Old 01-24-2014, 12:12 PM
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So given the previous statement. You think the Visio or Sharp mentioned earlier would be a better choice than the Samsung un60fh6003?
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post #29 of 31 Old 01-24-2014, 12:57 PM
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I would personally go with Sharp if I had to choose between Vizio or Sharp. I do triage for NEW and Vizio's come through the most (albeit because it's a popular brand but the quality is still iffy, very bad firmware update brick issues and things of that nature). The mid range Samsung's are high on features but lack a little in picture quality compared to the competition.

I prefer Samsung though just for the overall package of decent picture (on midrange sets) and excellent smart features. I own the flagship Samsung F8000 in 55" (considered the best LED picture quality next to the Sony W900A) and am incredibly pleased with it. I did have a Samsung 46" ES6100 last year and it was a decent television overall for only $800 on black friday. Beautiful design, Smart TV features, decent picture for the price, I could easily see being happy with it if I weren't so picky. The con that I have realized with lower end LCD's is the response time or pixel "smear" which makes PC 60 frames per second gaming unbearable. If you're using an Xbox 360 or PS3 and watching TV/movies, the pixel smear on the lower end TV's is nothing to be concerned about.

120hz and 3D are some what gimmicky in that price range. Although higher refresh panels have less pixel smear, you won't find much a difference on a budget or midrange 120hz panel. You can't go wrong with a 60hz panel if you're just watching TV or movies.
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post #30 of 31 Old 01-24-2014, 01:44 PM
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Thanks for the response. I do use a PS3 and watch movies, uverse, and dlna streaming. I never watch sports and always use my receiver for sound. The Samsung UN60FH60003 is about 150 miles away @ $750 otherwise it'd be 900 down the street. The Sharp LC60LE452u and Visio E601i-a3 are both $750 down the street.
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