2014 Vizio Thread All models - Page 135 - AVS Forum
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post #4021 of 5945 Old 06-09-2014, 05:07 PM
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65" m series is now live!
http://store.vizio.com/mseries/m652ib2.html
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post #4022 of 5945 Old 06-09-2014, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by superkyle View Post

65" m series is now live!
http://store.vizio.com/mseries/m652ib2.html

It's a little interesting that they moved the M801i-A3 to the top of the list of all M-Series models. It wasn't there yesterday (or whenever I looked to see the 55"). Of course, they still haven't labelled it "(New 2014 Model)" rolleyes.gif.

They're also no longer listing M801d-A3, last year's 80" 3D model, as being available.

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post #4023 of 5945 Old 06-09-2014, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

The 55" is 50 nits brighter. Now that it's shown up I'm sorely tempted to stop waiting and save $500 over getting the 55" P-Series that I was planning on.

Without a model version it makes it hard to determine which one you are talking about wink.gif

If brightness is your main thing 50 nits may be worth it to you. Not sure it would make up for the lesser zones lower processing etc etc on the P series though.

I was talking about the 55" M-Series; the brightness was relative to the 60" model and was just an observation. I don't think that it will compare to the 55" P-Series (P502ui-Bx) in terms of picture quality and features, it's just available now for $500 less. Who knows when the P-Series will show up (though it looks as though they'll complete rolling out the M-Series before the end of this month, so my hope of them starting to roll out in July seems ever more reasonable smile.gif).

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post #4024 of 5945 Old 06-09-2014, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by superkyle View Post

65" m series is now live!
http://store.vizio.com/mseries/m652ib2.html

Or another way of putting it, they're all listed except for the 50" and 70" models.

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post #4025 of 5945 Old 06-09-2014, 06:12 PM
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I am still a little skeptical about the existence of the 50" model. It just doesn't make sense to me. I realize there is a lot of information saying that I am wrong but I wouldn't be shocked if it never materializes.
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post #4026 of 5945 Old 06-09-2014, 07:38 PM
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Very much looking forward to a review of the 55' M-series, and also the 55' P-series when that becomes available (hopefully before football season).  I'm playing the waiting game and hoping the P-series will be worth the wait.

 

I have to say I hadn't considered Vizio until this year, and I'm happy I am taking them serious.  Looks like a promising line up of televisions.

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post #4027 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 07:05 AM
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M-Series reviews are up on CNET. Here is the M602i-B3: http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-m602i-b3/

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post #4028 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 07:07 AM
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post #4029 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Stoopalini View Post

M-Series reviews are up on CNET. Here is the M602i-B3: http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-m602i-b3/
I have to say I expected the M series to shine a little brighter than the E series, but overall still a glowing review. I know one particular person on here will be upset with the 42ms game mode lag. It looks like sony is in trouble being bested by a much cheaper tv
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post #4030 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by superkyle View Post

I have to say I expected the M series to shine a little brighter than the E series, but overall still a glowing review. I know one particular person on here will be upset with the 42ms game mode lag. It looks like sony is in trouble being bested by a much cheaper tv

In cnet's review, last paragraph of the Black Level section of the review, am I reading right that the E series actually has less blooming than the M?
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post #4031 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrke1 View Post

In cnet's review, last paragraph of the Black Level section of the review, am I reading right that the E series actually has less blooming than the M?
That's how I read it. The 2014 M Series on par with the Sony and Samsung, the E Series being above those and 2013 M Series being the worst.
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post #4032 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 08:16 AM
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Nothing special here, youll find more information in this thread than on that short "blurb" of a post....Not worth the click IMO...
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post #4033 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrke1 View Post

In cnet's review, last paragraph of the Black Level section of the review, am I reading right that the E series actually has less blooming than the M?

Slightly less he said, so it would appear yes, how slightly is anyones guess however. If course we have had members here who have had both E and M and they have already remarked that the M series seemed to be the better TV to them and resolved issues they found in the E series..
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post #4034 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrke1 View Post


In cnet's review, last paragraph of the Black Level section of the review, am I reading right that the E series actually has less blooming than the M?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbryner View Post


That's how I read it. The 2014 M Series on par with the Sony and Samsung, the E Series being above those and 2013 M Series being the worst.

He did say "very slightly less", which could be bias or even differrences in a set. CNET reviewers have the same eyes and brains we have. He essentially thought they tied. One would expect it to have been much better, but the tech between the two TVs is the same so....we can't expect dramatic results in that dept. 

There can even be the expectation to be very slightly different results between two models of the same line. In my opinion, not something to be concerned over.

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post #4035 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 09:16 AM
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Has anyone else noticed that per Vizio's site the m602i-b3 is the only panel that appears to be 10-bit? 

 

I'm guessing that's why it's also only 350 nits as opposed to 400 for the other sizes (different manufacturer).

 

Surprised nobody has brought this up.

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post #4036 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Slightly less he said, so it would appear yes, how slightly is anyones guess however. If course we have had members here who have had both E and M and they have already remarked that the M series seemed to be the better TV to them and resolved issues they found in the E series..

I am one of those members, and the upgrade from the 42" E to the 42" M was worth the extra $100 in my opinion. The big reason for my switch was the E series is a 60Hz panel and the M series is a 120Hz panel. I could tell a significant difference in motion handling between the two regardless of what the CNET review says about lines of resolution being the same with all motion settings off (not even sure what that means exactly). I don't use the "Motion Blur Reduction" or the "Smooth Motion Effect" ( I despise the Soap Opera Effect), and to my eyes the M series handles motion better. There must be multiple/different types of "blur" or "smearing" that can manifest itself in an LCD panel, so a 120Hz LCD must improve on one or more of those when compared to a 60Hz LCD.

The E series also looks and feels like cheap plastic, while the M series looks and feels more solid and durable. The only areas where the E series was better than the M series (again, this only relates to the 42" model), was in screen uniformity. The 42" M has slightly darkened corners, whereas the 42" E did not. It's not noticeable in 99% of content, so unless you are staring at color slides, they aren't much of an issue.
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post #4037 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by moony350 View Post
 

Has anyone else noticed that per Vizio's site the m602i-b3 is the only panel that appears to be 10-bit? 

 

I'm guessing that's why it's also only 350 nits as opposed to 400 for the other sizes (different manufacturer).

 

Surprised nobody has brought this up.

 

Thats interesting.

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post #4038 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by djsketchie View Post

The big reason for my switch was the E series is a 60Hz panel and the M series is a 120Hz panel. I could tell a significant difference in motion handling between the two regardless of what the CNET review says about lines of resolution being the same with all motion settings off (not even sure what that means exactly). I don't use the "Motion Blur Reduction" or the "Smooth Motion Effect" ( I despise the Soap Opera Effect), and to my eyes the M series handles motion better. There must be multiple/different types of "blur" or "smearing" that can manifest itself in an LCD panel, so a 120Hz LCD must improve on one or more of those when compared to a 60Hz LCD.

It's interesting CNET reports 120hz panel, as our fellow member, UFO, tested a M602i-B3, and the result was 240hz.

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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

The LB input lag tester measures the top of the screen, the middle, and the bottom. It took a total of around 4ms (a bit more than this) to paint an entire frame. That would mean that it paints 240 frames per second, or 240hz. When I test 60hz tv's I get almost 17ms from top to bottom, equating to 60fps, or 60hz. When I test 120hz displays, I get around 8ms from top to bottom so 120fps, and so on. So the LB input lag tester not only measures input lag, but it also reveals the true refresh rate of the panel. When I test my w900a, I also get around 4ms from top to bottom, regardless of motion flow settings so you can not fool the tester by backlight scanning or frame interpolation. The 2014 60" M series is for sure native 240hz.

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post #4039 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by moony350 View Post

Has anyone else noticed that per Vizio's site the m602i-b3 is the only panel that appears to be 10-bit? 

I'm guessing that's why it's also only 350 nits as opposed to 400 for the other sizes (different manufacturer).

Surprised nobody has brought this up.

Good catch. Looks like it is the only M series B3 panel up there also right now, I wonder if the upcoming M702i-B3 will also be 10 bit? Funny that it wasn't mentioned in the CNET review...

Also, does anyone know if this actually is a 10 bit panel, what would be needed to actually see the benefit of it? I'm assuming some Blu Ray content would show a benefit? Would all the components in the chain need to be "10 bit"?

I was thinking about getting the 65 inch but if there is some added color depth in the 60 or 70 maybe it would be worth waiting for the 70 inch, or just going ahead and getting the 60 at Costco now.
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post #4040 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Blaque Flag View Post

Thats interesting.

The 60" also seems to have different speakers and viewing angles, but the 10Bit panel is a big difference from the other M's. Waiting to see the 70" or maybe the P series.
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post #4041 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 10:08 AM
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Me: 8-bit vs 10-bit

Just a moment...
Joelle:
How can I help you today?
Me: I was looking at specs for 65" 204 M-series vs the 60" and it says the 60" has 10 bit and the 65 is 8 bit. Does the 60" have more colors than the 65" ?
Joelle: Yes, the 65" color is 16.7 Million and the 60" is 1.07 Billion.
Me: Does it use a different panel?
Joelle: No, the panel is the same on both models.
Me: I am confused. Why does the 65" have less colors? I don't know much about this stuff
Joelle: I am not in the department that makes the decisions on what models will have what specs so I am unable to answer that for you.
Me: Is there a different contact that you guys have that would have more technical type info to give. I was really looking at getting the 65, but am concerned taht it is a lesser picture than the 60
Joelle: We all have the same information available, but our tech phone support number is 877-878-4946.
Me: thank you.
Joelle: You're welcome. Is there anything else I can assist you with today?
Me: no, thanks for your help
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post #4042 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 10:22 AM
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^ Thanks for asking the question Adren_ln

I think it has been concluded that there is indeed a different source for the panels based on the last number of the model number. So maybe the CSR didn't understand your question about different panels. Unfortunately it might be hard to get a definitive answer to the panel question.
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post #4043 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoopalini View Post

It's interesting CNET reports 120hz panel, as our fellow member, UFO, tested a M602i-B3, and the result was 240hz.

I would really love to know what the true native refresh rate on the M series is, there seems to be a lot of misinformation on this. I saw someone post earlier that Vizio support (I understand not the best source) stated that both the E and M start with 60hz panels and using varying degrees on manipulation to obtain 120 0r 240hz respectively. For me this is a big deal because I will be using this TV for gaming in the game mode, which of course turns off most post processing including smooth motion effects.

Also, it continues to seem that Vizio's entire line varies significantly when it comes to input lag between different panels. CNET is showing 41ms input lag for the 60" M which is a B3 panel, if we look at the E series it has 27ms for 55" B2 panel and 43ms on 42" B0 panel. If the input lag is affected by the panel manufacturer for some reason, I would be really curious to see if the 65" M series (B2 panel) has a lower input lag.

Man, confusing! Ideally I really wish we had input lag measurements for each different size, obviously that's not going to happen though.

What do you guys think?
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post #4044 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 10:36 AM
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^ Thanks for asking the question Adren_ln

I think it has been concluded that there is indeed a different source for the panels based on the last number of the model number. So maybe the CSR didn't understand your question about different panels. Unfortunately it might be hard to get a definitive answer to the panel question.
I called and the tech support gentleman said that he thinks they MIGHT use a different panel, and that the CSR may have meant that the screen (outside) was the same, but didn't know about the guts of the TV. He confirmed that the specs are correct, so the 65" has an extra 5 inches at the cost of hundreds of millions of colors. I can't do the math on that. Sorry. I know in other threads people have asked what that discrepancy amounts to in real life. What do you guys think? I could get the 60" and just sit a little closer? Is the 65" really a lesser tv set? And why does the E-series have less lag than the M-series? Is 20ms difference enough to hurt me in Hot Shots Golf? lol
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post #4045 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 10:42 AM
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I would really love to know what the true native refresh rate on the M series is, there seems to be a lot of misinformation on this. I saw someone post earlier that Vizio support (I understand not the best source) stated that both the E and M start with 60hz panels and using varying degrees on manipulation to obtain 120 0r 240hz respectively. For me this is a big deal because I will be using this TV for gaming in the game mode, which of course turns off most post processing including smooth motion effects.

Also, it continues to seem that Vizio's entire line varies significantly when it comes to input lag between different panels. CNET is showing 41ms input lag for the 60" M which is a B3 panel, if we look at the E series it has 27ms for 55" B2 panel and 43ms on 42" B0 panel. If the input lag is affected by the panel manufacturer for some reason, I would be really curious to see if the 65" M series (B2 panel) has a lower input lag.

Man, confusing! Ideally I really wish we had input lag measurements for each different size, obviously that's not going to happen though.

What do you guys think?


In my opinion, the last digit in the part number doesn't represent just the source of the panel, but also the final OEM assembler of the entire set.  Also IMO, the sourced panel alone may not be the reason for lower lag figures, but the panel plus the electronic support items (t-con board, motherboard, etc.) work as a system to provide a TV with a particular input lag characteristic.

 

For people like Waveboy, for whom lag is THE most critical aspect of their purchase decision, models assembled by Wistron may be the best choices of Vizio's product line.  For others, the B3 panel, such as my friend's E600i-B3, may have somewhat better overall picture quality than my E550i-B2... but not enough of a difference to justify a 31% cost difference ($649 vs. $849).

 

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post #4046 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 10:47 AM
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I am lost now. Can anybody tell me how the M-series will compare to my old Samsung LN46C530? I can't find input lag specs for my set to compare. Any help will be appreciated
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post #4047 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by adren_ln View Post


I called and the tech support gentleman said that he thinks they MIGHT use a different panel, and that the CSR may have meant that the screen (outside) was the same, but didn't know about the guts of the TV. He confirmed that the specs are correct, so the 65" has an extra 5 inches at the cost of hundreds of millions of colors. I can't do the math on that. Sorry. I know in other threads people have asked what that discrepancy amounts to in real life. What do you guys think? I could get the 60" and just sit a little closer? Is the 65" really a lesser tv set? And why does the E-series have less lag than the M-series? Is 20ms difference enough to hurt me in Hot Shots Golf? lol


IMO, each different OEM assembler makes a set with different characteristics; the "-B2" models have different lag characteristics than "-B0", "-B1", and "-B3" models.

 

My understanding is that Rec. 709 for color gamut only describes 8-bit color (reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._709), and that Rec. 2020 specifies 12-bit color (reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._2020), so a 10-bit panel would seem to offer no current advantage, nor is it capable of handling the Rec. 2020 standard -- however, there have been posters who have said that Rec. 2020 isn't going to happen, and that an intermediate step may be forthcoming.  The 10-bit panel may be that intermediate step, but I think that is unclear at present.

 

Also, from working in the electronics industry myself, asking an employee to divulge an OEM is like asking them to perform corporate seppuku.  The Vizio rep responses I've seen posted reek of deliberate obtuseness.  We are asking them questions that they cannot accurately answer, for fear of their jobs.  Let's be gentle with them.

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post #4048 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 11:08 AM
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What is the difference between Vizio's listed response time and the input lag numbers? Vizio says 8ms, Cnet says 41ms. What am I missing here?
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post #4049 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by adren_ln View Post

What is the difference between Vizio's listed response time and the input lag numbers? Vizio says 8ms, Cnet says 41ms. What am I missing here?


The first number is the panel itself's response time, and the second number is the entire set's response time from the instant a signal is received at the HDMI port until that signal's action is viewed on the panel.

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post #4050 of 5945 Old 06-10-2014, 11:54 AM
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Any guesses at to how long before these sets start to show up at local retailers (i.e. Costco, etc.)? Or how long it took for, say, the 2014 M-series 60" to show up after it was officially released? The shipping costs at Vizio are pretty high....

Thanks in advance.
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