2014 Vizio Thread All models - Page 136 - AVS Forum
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post #4051 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 12:17 PM
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Could be a week or two, but the release is anyone's guess.


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post #4052 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 12:34 PM
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Can anybody tell me how the M-series will compare to my old Samsung LN46C530? I can't find input lag specs for my set to compare. Any help will be appreciated
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post #4053 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronzo3 View Post


The first number is the panel itself's response time, and the second number is the entire set's response time from the instant a signal is received at the HDMI port until that signal's action is viewed on the panel.

Not to pick nits, but Input Lag would be the time between a button press on an input device connected to a video source, and the effect on screen.
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post #4054 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinatti View Post

Any guesses at to how long before these sets start to show up at local retailers (i.e. Costco, etc.)? Or how long it took for, say, the 2014 M-series 60" to show up after it was officially released? The shipping costs at Vizio are pretty high....

Thanks in advance.

Sam's Club has the 60" available on line now with free shipping.
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post #4055 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 03:15 PM
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http://www.cnet.com/news/vizio-unveils-sllimmer-sleeker-2014-m-series-read-cnets-exclusive-review/

 

"Today we asked Vizio again about when the P would be available, but the company wasn't able to answer that question on the record. Pricing and availability for the flagship R series is also yet to be announced."

 

Sounds like this is the event we've been hearing about. I'm honestly surprised they held an event to announce TVs that have been on sale for close to a month without a peep about the P or Reference series. At least now that the M's are finally out of the way, we're in the final stretch of the waiting game for the P series!

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post #4056 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 03:25 PM
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So they couldn't comment on the P series "on the record" wonder what they said off the record.

Would really like to see the P series, and get a review or two.
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post #4057 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 03:35 PM
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I wonder what they said off the record...
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post #4058 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuentinH View Post

I wonder what they said off the record...
Well if that got reported it wouldn't be off the record. tongue.gif
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post #4059 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdyson View Post

Not to pick nits, but Input Lag would be the time between a button press on an input device connected to a video source, and the effect on screen.

That would be a useless and arbitrary number. How much time between that button press and sending a frame to the television for display? "Input" in this case is reception of a signal at an input connection on the television. I imagine that the Bodnar device starts sending a sequence of frames to the television, each enough difference from the last to be discernible, if not by the naked eye; it displays the amount of time between it sending a frame and detecting it on the screen.

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post #4060 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
The M-series is available now in sizes from 32- to 70-inches, with the exception of the 50-inch model which will come a bit later.

They lie--the 70" is not available.

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post #4061 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

They lie--the 70" is not available.
I just started reading this thread as I saw a post of yours about the P-series UHD panels in another thread and that you were interested in them. What size panel and how soon were you thinking about getting one? I ask as I've decided this year was the year I was finally going to move from the CRT to LCD and the price/value/technology equation of the P-series looked very intriguing. I would be looking at the 70" as the CRT-based unit I have now is 73" and I don't really want to go down to 65". Anyway, very curious to hear your thoughts if you do pull the trigger on one when they are released.
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post #4062 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

They lie--the 70" is not available.

Perhaps so, but I suspect the 70" will be coming soon. What I found of interest is that the 50" model is coming a bit later. Not that I desire this size so much over the 49" model but why are there two sizes within an inch of each other?

I'm thinking of holding out for the P series since Vizio is claiming much better contrast and video processing.

Edit: fadrd suggested video processing capabilities (excluding the upscaling engine) may be the same across the series (though I didn't read it that way) but I think it's now safe to assume that's not going to be the case. It sounds like if you want proper 1080p/24 film cadence that maintains motion resolution then you'll have to step up to the P series.

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post #4063 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

That would be a useless and arbitrary number. How much time between that button press and sending a frame to the television for display?

Actually, it's exactly what we're after. Bearing in mind that this is a measurement of performance born of gaming demands, put it in real-world terms: What's the delay between me pulling the R2 button and a bullet being fired from my gun? How long between pressing "A" and actually jumping? That's the very definition of input lag. Now, in order to minimize the compounding of input lag caused by differences in games and systems, so that you could arrive at a standardized measurement useful for comparing sets, you need a very simple device that can send a signal and then detect that it's been displayed. Enter the Bodnar LagTester.

Quote:
"Input" in this case is reception of a signal at an input connection on the television.

Short answer: now we're reeeeeeeally splitting hairs, because with something like the Bodnar LagTester, there's almost no difference, but allow me to explain why what you said isn't possible.

You'd have to crack the set open and instrument the port in order to get that measurement. Short of that, the best you can do is have a device that measures when it "sent" the signal out of its port, but I promise you, that's not the type of equipment in the Bodnar LagTester. It would be prohibitively expensive and decidedly pointless. The device is simple enough that there's no undue lag introduced by its circuitry, and no meaningful variance from test to test (so we've got minimal added lag and consistency/repeatability, at about as low cost as it's going to happen).

Quote:
I imagine that the Bodnar device starts sending a sequence of frames to the television, each enough difference from the last to be discernible, if not by the naked eye; it displays the amount of time between it sending a frame and detecting it on the screen.

As explained above, I can virtually guarantee that the measurement is from when the signal is triggered, not when it is sent. Shoot, if you want to split some already split hairs, there's necessarily some lag between when the button is pressed and when the clock starts... it's a meaninglessly small number, but it's there.

Edit: The LagTester flashes the white test bars on the screen. So there's no "different signal", it's on/off. It can time the difference between signal triggered and signal received directly at an interval. So, every interval, you get a lag measurement.
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post #4064 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 06:26 PM
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Still no listing for the 49" nor where it will be sold? 

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post #4065 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Carter View Post

Still no listing for the 49" nor where it will be sold? 

Well, if you mean outside of Vizio's Store Front, then perhaps yes at this time.

VIZIO 49” Class Full-Array LED Smart TV (New 2014 Model)

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post #4066 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdyson View Post

Actually, it's exactly what we're after. Bearing in mind that this is a measurement of performance born of gaming demands, put it in real-world terms: What's the delay between me pulling the R2 button and a bullet being fired from my gun?

Which will vary wildly and arbitrarily from game to game. If you google "input lag definition" you get:
Quote:
input lag

In video games, input lag is either the delay between the television or monitor receiving a signal and it being displayed on the screen (see display lag below), or the delay between pressing a button and seeing the game react.

So you get both my definition and yours. Let's just call what we want to know "display lag", definition number #1 above. That's a value which can be established for a television regardless of what provides video input to it.

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post #4067 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdyson View Post

Edit: The LagTester flashes the white test bars on the screen. So there's no "different signal", it's on/off. It can time the difference between signal triggered and signal received directly at an interval. So, every interval, you get a lag measurement.

It's got to be continuously sending frames so it has to be able to determine when it sees the one it's currently timing (it does flash those bars so I guess that they don't have to have any different appearance). The device can know exactly when it completes sending a frame without any fancy connections in the television, so it can give you a time between that and when it sees that frame appear.

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post #4068 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

They lie--the 70" is not available.
I just started reading this thread as I saw a post of yours about the P-series UHD panels in another thread and that you were interested in them. What size panel and how soon were you thinking about getting one?

I'm looking for the 55". I might buy the 60", but I think that's the limit for my typical viewing distance--4' to 6'--and use of it as a display for this PC. Though I should wait on professional reviews, I'll probably order it as soon as it becomes available biggrin.gif.

Its specs are pretty impressive. For purposes of gaming it supposedly can accept a 120 Hz signal, though I'm not sure if anything other than a PC can provide that; I'm not sure if any of the consoles can do it. One thing that it has is HEVC decoding capability and 4K streaming for Netflix (and any other service which wants to use HEVC for 4K); I don't care about 4K so much as the reduced bandwidth of HEVC streams (should be 40%-50% lower).

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post #4069 of 5936 Old 06-10-2014, 09:02 PM
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Well, what do you know, according to Katzmaier the M series can hold its own against the Samsung F8000 in terms of PQ after all. I had it on good authority from a F8000 owner who visited this thread that such statements were absurd (or something to that effect). The M series does lack the video processing prowess of the Samsung but hopefully that will be addressed with the P series and it's still a bargain compared to the H8000, I believe Samsung's cheapest TV with its hardware based dimming scheme.

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post #4070 of 5936 Old 06-11-2014, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Carter View Post

Still no listing for the 49" nor where it will be sold? 
Response from Vizio to this question on their Facebook page:
"Jasen- Some of the 2014 M series models are beginning to roll out to retailers. The full line up will be hitting stores this summer. I would recommend checking back on www.vizio.com and once retailers start rolling out these models you can click "find a retailer" on our website under that particular model. Thank you! -Evan"

I suspect people here will spot and report where to find the new models before Vizio updates their site.
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post #4071 of 5936 Old 06-11-2014, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdyson View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by Ronzo3 


The first number is the panel itself's response time, and the second number is the entire set's response time from the instant a signal is received at the HDMI port until that signal's action is viewed on the panel.


Not to pick nits, but Input Lag would be the time between a button press on an input device connected to a video source, and the effect on screen.
I would tend to disagree. Video input lag is what we are talking about here, right? That would make his definition perfect. It is the time in which it takes the TV to receive, process, and display the signal. The other type of input lag, for video games, would be the time it takes from when you press a button, that button press is received by the console, processed, and then the result is sent to the display (which must then take that incoming signal, process it, and display it AKA video input lag). Video game input lag takes into account both the button press lag and the video lag of sending the image to the TV.

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post #4072 of 5936 Old 06-11-2014, 11:23 PM
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great time, I have not been able to find prices anywhere I search.. Only found that Vizio would be releasing prices,thank you [IMG]http://*******/8e9eFH[/IMG]

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post #4073 of 5936 Old 06-11-2014, 11:57 PM
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great time, I have not been able to find prices anywhere I search.. Only found that Vizio would be releasing prices,thank you [IMG]http://*******/8e9eFH[/IMG]
Prices for what? Prices for the E- and M-Series were given in this Vizio PR and you can see the ones which are available listed for sale at Vizio's site here (M-Series) and here (E-Series). Prices for the P-Series are listed in this Vizio PR (basically $1000 for the 50" and an additional $400 for every 5" more than that). None of the P-Series models are available to buy yet. Prices for the Reference Series have not yet been disclosed.

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post #4074 of 5936 Old 06-12-2014, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by keenan 

Quote:Originally Posted by michaeltscott 

They lie--the 70" is not available.

I just started reading this thread as I saw a post of yours about the P-series UHD panels in another thread and that you were interested in them. What size panel and how soon were you thinking about getting one?


I'm looking for the 55". I might buy the 60", but I think that's the limit for my typical viewing distance--4' to 6'--and use of it as a display for this PC. Though I should wait on professional reviews, I'll probably order it as soon as it becomes available .

Its specs are pretty impressive. For purposes of gaming it supposedly can accept a 120 Hz signal, though I'm not sure if anything other than a PC can provide that; I'm not sure if any of the consoles can do it. One thing that it has is HEVC decoding capability and 4K streaming for Netflix (and any other service which wants to use HEVC for 4K); I don't care about 4K so much as the reduced bandwidth of HEVC streams (should be 40%-50% lower).
The HEVC and the UHD capability will be nice but I'm mainly interested in the back-lighting performance, light bleed is the main reason I've stayed away from LED/LCD displays so far.

And you should go for the 60" over the 55", you know you'll regret it later if you don't!
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post #4075 of 5936 Old 06-12-2014, 07:23 AM
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This is the correct product page for the new 65" M-series, correct? Though we haven't figured out the color depth issue yet, I suppose I better get in line for delivery...

http://www.amazon.com/VIZIO-M652i-B2...VIZIO+M652i-B2
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post #4076 of 5936 Old 06-12-2014, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RipcordAFF View Post
This is the correct product page for the new 65" M-series, correct? Though we haven't figured out the color depth issue yet, I suppose I better get in line for delivery...

http://www.amazon.com/VIZIO-M652i-B2...VIZIO+M652i-B2
Color depth issue?

If you don't feel like waiting on Amazon to get them in stock....
http://store.vizio.com/mseries/m652ib2.html
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post #4077 of 5936 Old 06-12-2014, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by RipcordAFF View Post
This is the correct product page for the new 65" M-series, correct? Though we haven't figured out the color depth issue yet, I suppose I better get in line for delivery...

http://www.amazon.com/VIZIO-M652i-B2...VIZIO+M652i-B2
Here is the more specific forum for the M series:

Official 2014 Vizio Mxxx-Bx Series owners thread
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post #4078 of 5936 Old 06-12-2014, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by rtn5000 View Post
Color depth issue?
A few pages back there was a discussion regarding the color depth of the 65" panel. It seems that it is an 8-bit panel (16 million colors), while the rest of the sizes in the range (including the E-series) are listed as 10-bit (1 billion colors). I don't know if anyone has definitively determined whether this will affect picture quality with standard HD sources...
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post #4079 of 5936 Old 06-12-2014, 07:35 AM
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Does anyone know if the Vizio's are assembled in the US?

And if do, does it say anywhere on the box? I really don't want to have to pAy another 8% Duty
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post #4080 of 5936 Old 06-12-2014, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronzo3 View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by adren_ln 
IMO, each different OEM assembler makes a set with different characteristics; the "-B2" models have different lag characteristics than "-B0", "-B1", and "-B3" models.
 
My understanding is that Rec. 709 for color gamut only describes 8-bit color (reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._709), and that Rec. 2020 specifies 12-bit color (reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._2020), so a 10-bit panel would seem to offer no current advantage, nor is it capable of handling the Rec. 2020 standard -- however, there have been posters who have said that Rec. 2020 isn't going to happen, and that an intermediate step may be forthcoming.  The 10-bit panel may be that intermediate step, but I think that is unclear at present.
 
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Originally Posted by RipcordAFF View Post
A few pages back there was a discussion regarding the color depth of the 65" panel. It seems that it is an 8-bit panel (16 million colors), while the rest of the sizes in the range (including the E-series) are listed as 10-bit (1 billion colors). I don't know if anyone has definitively determined whether this will affect picture quality with standard HD sources...
Ah, I didn't view this as an "issue". If the poster above is correct 10 Bit panels may show no improvement in real world usage.
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