2014 Vizio Thread All models - Page 138 - AVS Forum

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Rf13's Avatar Rf13
10:23 AM Liked: 75
post #4111 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightanole View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rf13 View Post
well guys i guess this article somewhat confirms what another member said, about the panels being 60hz. this could also be the reason for no 3D this year as well. this statement is very vague but seems to pertain to vizio as well.

qoute from article- "HD Guru expects more lower cost UHD 4K TVs to appear over the next few months in the USA by the major name brands as well as TCL, Hisense and Vizio. In addition to lowering costs by using new 60 Hz panels, they will probably will not be 3D capable as active 3D requires a 120 Hz panel . Further price drops could be achieved by stripping out other features such as Smart TV and LED local dimming."



heres the article: http://hdguru.com/new-lower-priced-u...vs/#more-13875


I think what they mean is that cheap 4k models will be limited to 60hz panels. That means 120hz with back light strobe.

Current 1080p vizios are 120hz panels with back light strobe to get them to 240hz. To my knowledge there is no true 240hz panels out there.

^^^ This. The article was simply showing how companies could produce and release cheaper 4k sets. It says nothing about how Vizio or others are actually doing it. Just because a set is missing 3D doesn't mean it is for a fact 60hz, it just means it could be 60hz.


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Good to know that's a helpful insight.
venus933's Avatar venus933
12:55 PM Liked: 211
post #4112 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 1,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightanole View Post
I think what they mean is that cheap 4k models will be limited to 60hz panels. That means 120hz with back light strobe. Current 1080p vizios are 120hz panels with back light strobe to get them to 240hz. To my knowledge there is no true 240hz panels out there.
It's also my understanding that film interpolation from TV source based content is not possible with a 60 Hz panel.
Crzyrio's Avatar Crzyrio
12:56 PM Liked: 11
post #4113 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 43
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Besides Costco & Sam's Club, where else in the US/Buffalo is the 60in available?

MODEL#M602I-B3 - Bestbuy Doesn't seem to carry it yet, and there are no Costco's near the Niagara region

Any idea if I can sign up for a Sam's club membership if I live in Canada? Lol Other than those 2 places I can't find any other
EJ11's Avatar EJ11
01:07 PM Liked: 18
post #4114 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 65
Joined: Feb 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightanole View Post
I think what they mean is that cheap 4k models will be limited to 60hz panels. That means 120hz with back light strobe. Current 1080p vizios are 120hz panels with back light strobe to get them to 240hz. To my knowledge there is no true 240hz panels out there.
It's also my understanding that film interpolation from TV source based content is not possible with a 60 Hz panel.
Yup, and how else are they pulling off a 120FPS input mode? The panel is at least 120Hz, possibly even 240
Nightanole's Avatar Nightanole
03:04 PM Liked: 11
post #4115 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightanole View Post
I think what they mean is that cheap 4k models will be limited to 60hz panels. That means 120hz with back light strobe. Current 1080p vizios are 120hz panels with back light strobe to get them to 240hz. To my knowledge there is no true 240hz panels out there.
It's also my understanding that film interpolation from TV source based content is not possible with a 60 Hz panel.
Ah a whole new can of worms. I might be talking out my arse (its been a while since i was pulling sets apart) but the 60hz, is the update limit. So film can still be double shuttered to 48fps and sent to the 60hz panel, or quad shuttered to 120fps for a 120hz panel (with a backlight strobe helping further smoothness to sudo 120/240hz). Since the switch to "digital tv" and lcd panels, tv sets dont care if the source is 24fps, 29.97 ntsc or 25 pal, the processor will take it and convert it to the nearest multiple of the panel. They do not need to do 3:2 pulldown(2:3) to convert from 24 to 29.97 frame/s in order to match a 60hz panel.

If you want to have a research project, check out the latest "gsync" and i think "freesync" that eliminates panel frequency matching all together from nvidia and ati. If the game is rendering at 51fps, the panel is refreshing at 51hz.
Nightanole's Avatar Nightanole
03:28 PM Liked: 11
post #4116 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightanole View Post
To my knowledge there is no true 240hz panels out there.
One of the models that I looked at proudly proclaimed itself to have native 240Hz refresh rate, Panasonic's TC-55AS680U.
Looks like there may be a few if they are really 240hz panels and not doing the strobe trick. The charts dont have "strobe speed" listed. In theory if there are real 240hz panels out there then we should be see them marketed as "480hz rated"

http://www.rtings.com/info/fake-refr...s-lg-trumotion
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott
03:30 PM Liked: 808
post #4117 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 18,028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightanole View Post
To my knowledge there is no true 240hz panels out there.

One of the models that I looked at is proudly proclaimed to have native 240Hz refresh rate, Panasonic's TC-55AS680U, their flagship 1080p set for 2014, which only comes in that size (Toshiba's flagship 1080p set, a FALD panel over which I was briefly excited, is also only available as a 55" model). It has not shown up on the market yet.
Canaria's Avatar Canaria
03:35 PM Liked: 25
post #4118 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 43
Joined: May 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crzyrio View Post
Besides Costco & Sam's Club, where else in the US/Buffalo is the 60in available?

MODEL#M602I-B3 - Bestbuy Doesn't seem to carry it yet, and there are no Costco's near the Niagara region

Any idea if I can sign up for a Sam's club membership if I live in Canada? Lol Other than those 2 places I can't find any other
You can use a Costco membership at any location worldwide. You can get your membership online at Costco Canada and purchase the M in the states, but I don't know if you can drive down and get a US membership.

Man I sure mixed that one up.....you can download a one day Samsclub pass and turn it in at the store of your choice. (The pass shows no restrictions)

http://help.samsclub.com/ci/fattach/...+6.30.2014.pdf
Crzyrio's Avatar Crzyrio
03:59 PM Liked: 11
post #4119 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 43
Joined: May 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaria View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crzyrio View Post
Besides Costco & Sam's Club, where else in the US/Buffalo is the 60in available?

MODEL#M602I-B3 - Bestbuy Doesn't seem to carry it yet, and there are no Costco's near the Niagara region

Any idea if I can sign up for a Sam's club membership if I live in Canada? Lol Other than those 2 places I can't find any other
You can use a Costco membership at any location worldwide. You can get your membership online at Costco Canada and purchase the M in the states, but I don't know if you can drive down and get a US membership.

Man I sure mixed that one up.....you can download a one day Samsclub pass and turn it in at the store of your choice. (The pass shows no restrictions)

http://help.samsclub.com/ci/fattach/...+6.30.2014.pdf
We already have a Cosco membership but the only problem is, there is no Costco near the border :|

Theres a catch on the Samsclub pass, a 10% service fee. Which turns out to be more than the membership on the TV :P
Might just sign up for Sam's Club
Canaria's Avatar Canaria
04:23 PM Liked: 25
post #4120 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crzyrio View Post
We already have a Cosco membership but the only problem is, there is no Costco near the border :|

Theres a catch on the Samsclub pass, a 10% service fee. Which turns out to be more than the membership on the TV :P
Might just sign up for Sam's Club
Hell, 10% will add up to more than a membership, on top of the money your spending just to make the drive........Vizio doesn't make it easy to purchase a tv if your from Canada.
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott
04:49 PM Liked: 808
post #4121 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 18,028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightanole View Post
Looks like there may be a few if they are really 240hz panels and not doing the strobe trick. The charts dont have "strobe speed" listed. In theory if there are real 240hz panels out there then we should be see them marketed as "480hz rated"
In this particular instance (TC-55AS680U) it's the model's marquee feature. If you look at this page of Panasonic's television models announced at 2014 CES, you'll see that "Native 240Hz Refresh Rate" is the first listed feature of that model (first in the next to last row). Thus far, of course, the model is vaporware .

The M602i-B3 tested as updating its screen at a 240Hz "pace" (slightly more than 4ms top to bottom) but as someone pointed out, that doesn't mean that the board sends it frames at that rate.
denameralph's Avatar denameralph
04:55 PM Liked: 10
post #4122 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 8
Joined: Jun 2014
has anyone ordered from the vizio site? Just curious as to how long the shipping is expected to be. Might just order from them because the insurance policy is really good and I'd rather not just wait around for a best buy to have it (maybe next or two? who knows)
migl's Avatar migl
05:02 PM Liked: 5
post #4123 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denameralph View Post
has anyone ordered from the vizio site? Just curious as to how long the shipping is expected to be. Might just order from them because the insurance policy is really good and I'd rather not just wait around for a best buy to have it (maybe next or two? who knows)
I have. Ordered the 65" M 2014. Put the order in on the 10th, expecting delivery on the 18th.
venus933's Avatar venus933
05:09 PM Liked: 211
post #4124 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 1,203
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I'm dying to hear some feedback on the 49" model!
jrbryner's Avatar jrbryner
06:00 PM Liked: 12
post #4125 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 22
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Forgive me. I've been following this thread for the past couple if weeks and I still can't figure out what advantage the M series has over the E. Seems that PQ is on par, if not better on the E. Black levels are the same story. I haven't read of real complaints about viewing angles on the E. So what advantage does the M series give?
michaeltscott's Avatar michaeltscott
06:21 PM Liked: 808
post #4126 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 18,028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbryner View Post
Forgive me. I've been following this thread for the past couple if weeks and I still can't figure out what advantage the M series has over the E. Seems that PQ is on par, if not better on the E. Black levels are the same story. I haven't read of real complaints about viewing angles on the E. So what advantage does the M series give?

I've been following this thread for a long time too and I'm not getting the same impressions. The M-Series has superior build quality, twice the "effective refresh rate", twice the dimming zones and something called "Active Pixel Tuning", an advanced dimming feature.
Ph8te's Avatar Ph8te
06:36 PM Liked: 617
post #4127 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 10,060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbryner View Post
Forgive me. I've been following this thread for the past couple if weeks and I still can't figure out what advantage the M series has over the E. Seems that PQ is on par, if not better on the E. Black levels are the same story. I haven't read of real complaints about viewing angles on the E. So what advantage does the M series give?

If you have been following then you should remember those owners who moved from the E to the M and noticed a better picture on the m series. While it's not going to be leaps and bounds better than the E there will be a slight difference in aspects of the build and picture quality. The choice comes down to if you feel the benefits of the step up is worth the extra money for you. Some may decide it's not and choose the E. Others may decide yes and chose the M. I don't believe you'll start to see a "real" difference until we see the P series which should be a noticeable step up from the E. Remember though some of these "low end" sets recently have performed as well if not better than some higher priced sets especially once calibrated (Panasonic S/ST, Samsung H5000, Samsung 5300). There will always be drawbacks for these lower end sets that sometimes you don't have to sacrifice with the higher end ones though. All about choices and doing what you feel best with your dollars


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venus933's Avatar venus933
08:36 PM Liked: 211
post #4128 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 1,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbryner View Post
Forgive me. I've been following this thread for the past couple if weeks and I still can't figure out what advantage the M series has over the E. Seems that PQ is on par, if not better on the E. Black levels are the same story. I haven't read of real complaints about viewing angles on the E. So what advantage does the M series give?

If you have been following then you should remember those owners who moved from the E to the M and noticed a better picture on the m series. While it's not going to be leaps and bounds better than the E there will be a slight difference in aspects of the build and picture quality. The choice comes down to if you feel the benefits of the step up is worth the extra money for you. Some may decide it's not and choose the E. Others may decide yes and chose the M. I don't believe you'll start to see a "real" difference until we see the P series which should be a noticeable step up from the E. Remember though some of these "low end" sets recently have performed as well if not better than some higher priced sets especially once calibrated (Panasonic S/ST, Samsung H5000, Samsung 5300). There will always be drawbacks for these lower end sets that sometimes you don't have to sacrifice with the higher end ones though. All about choices and doing what you feel best with your dollars


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Actually I think there is a HUGE difference in build and material quality going from the E series to the M series but I agree in terms of PQ the P series should be a noticeable step up from the E and M series not even taking UHD into consideration.

Though Katzmaier didn't give credit to active pixel tuning (as mentioned by michaeltscott) for the M series maintaining highlights better than the E series it sounds an awful lot like what Vizio claimed it would do.

Vizio is great if you agree with their philosophy of not allocating resources for elaborate smart features, a fancy secondary remote and a web browser. Me, I'll be using a harmony remote and all I really want is the ability to stream from the major providers (some much more expensive televisions either don't provide Amazon VOD or VUDU). As it is I like Vizio's simple and straight forward Via Apps. I know some have had issues but my experience from the 2013 M series I had was smooth and fluid. That is after firmware updates.
Blaque Flag's Avatar Blaque Flag
10:32 PM Liked: 38
post #4129 of 5936
06-14-2014 | Posts: 111
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Sorry to be off topic, but it is driving me nuts.

How on earth do I make it so that I go to my first unread post on a thread, instead of going to the first post of the thread. This has been extremely annoying since the forum update. I just want it the way it was.
Ph8te's Avatar Ph8te
10:40 PM Liked: 617
post #4130 of 5936
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Click the small arrow on the right side of the thread topic.


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Nexgen76's Avatar Nexgen76
12:57 AM Liked: 20
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06-15-2014 | Posts: 101
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Is there any sign to when the P series going to be released Im trying to hold off getting the Sammy.
Stereodude's Avatar Stereodude
05:58 AM Liked: 633
post #4132 of 5936
06-15-2014 | Posts: 10,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
Is there any sign to when the P series going to be released Im trying to hold off getting the Sammy.
Just "fall"... Whatever exactly that means.
knlmwq's Avatar knlmwq
05:59 AM Liked: 12
post #4133 of 5936
06-15-2014 | Posts: 92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
Is there any sign to when the P series going to be released Im trying to hold off getting the Sammy.
I gave in and bought a sony 4k. I have about 20 days left in my return period. I love the set but I am still waiting for more news on the P series.
cer1970's Avatar cer1970
06:16 AM Liked: 10
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06-15-2014 | Posts: 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
I'm dying to hear some feedback on the 49" model!
So am I! This seems to fit my needs best and am hoping to hear more about it.
light200's Avatar light200
06:34 AM Liked: 10
post #4135 of 5936
06-15-2014 | Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crzyrio View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaria View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crzyrio View Post
Besides Costco & Sam's Club, where else in the US/Buffalo is the 60in available?

MODEL#M602I-B3 - Bestbuy Doesn't seem to carry it yet, and there are no Costco's near the Niagara region

Any idea if I can sign up for a Sam's club membership if I live in Canada? Lol Other than those 2 places I can't find any other
You can use a Costco membership at any location worldwide. You can get your membership online at Costco Canada and purchase the M in the states, but I don't know if you can drive down and get a US membership.

Man I sure mixed that one up.....you can download a one day Samsclub pass and turn it in at the store of your choice. (The pass shows no restrictions)

http://help.samsclub.com/ci/fattach/...+6.30.2014.pdf
We already have a Cosco membership but the only problem is, there is no Costco near the border :|

Theres a catch on the Samsclub pass, a 10% service fee. Which turns out to be more than the membership on the TV :P
Might just sign up for Sam's Club


Tigerdirect and Amazon both have it, as does Walmart and the Vizio site of course.
sams club will charge you 10% with the guest pass so its probably not worth it.
light200's Avatar light200
06:38 AM Liked: 10
post #4136 of 5936
06-15-2014 | Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by Stoopalini 

M-Series reviews are up on CNET. Here is the M602i-B3: http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-m602i-b3/

I have to say I expected the M series to shine a little brighter than the E series, but overall still a glowing review. I know one particular person on here will be upset with the 42ms game mode lag. It looks like sony is in trouble being bested by a much cheaper tv

I got my 602i-B3 yesterday, and made the custom setting like the cnet article set them on his calibration page....and the picture looked horrible. it was dark, blurry, colors were not good, blah blah blah....it just sucked. are these settings cnet posted supposed to be the instrument calibrated settings that are supposed to knock my socks off? they just didnt look nearly as good as some of the manufacturer presets? am i missing something here?
primetimeguy's Avatar primetimeguy
07:10 AM Liked: 158
post #4137 of 5936
06-15-2014 | Posts: 3,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by light200 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by Stoopalini 

M-Series reviews are up on CNET. Here is the M602i-B3: http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-m602i-b3/

I have to say I expected the M series to shine a little brighter than the E series, but overall still a glowing review. I know one particular person on here will be upset with the 42ms game mode lag. It looks like sony is in trouble being bested by a much cheaper tv

I got my 602i-B3 yesterday, and made the custom setting like the cnet article set them on his calibration page....and the picture looked horrible. it was dark, blurry, colors were not good, blah blah blah....it just sucked. are these settings cnet posted supposed to be the instrument calibrated settings that are supposed to knock my socks off? they just didnt look nearly as good as some of the manufacturer presets? am i missing something here?
You can't copy another person's settings, too much panel variability, especially in the advanced settings. Get a test disc to set the basic settings and you'll need a meter for anything beyond that.
archer75's Avatar archer75
07:11 AM Liked: 36
post #4138 of 5936
06-15-2014 | Posts: 1,719
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I don't care for the cnet settings either. They have sharpness at 0 which makes the picture out of focus. When I used the test patterns I found a setting of 50 was correct.
Also cnet complained about too much red. Their settings make the picture even more red.
I used their settings for my previous E series and they were excellent.
Ph8te's Avatar Ph8te
07:33 AM Liked: 617
post #4139 of 5936
06-15-2014 | Posts: 10,060
Joined: Oct 2005
@light200 @archer75 the CNET settings are calibrated to a standard. If you are not used to seeing an image that is calibrated then things may seem "off". Most of the time people are used to a picture that is too blue. While this is appealing to the eye (and what you'll see on showroom floors) it is not "accurate". If you do use the CNET settings or anyone's settings that has been calibrated properly then I always recommend giving it a week or so before switching. This gives your eyes and brain time to adjust to the new picture. If you don't like it switch to the other settings and see if you notice the change in color temp. Saying that as it's been said really you shouldn't copy others settings, there can be enough variance between sets where they won't translate to another one. If you don't have a meter the best thing to do is use a settings disk (WoW, S&M, AVS, etc) to adjust the basic settings you can via eye and the patterns available.


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primetimeguy's Avatar primetimeguy
07:38 AM Liked: 158
post #4140 of 5936
06-15-2014 | Posts: 3,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post
I don't care for the cnet settings either. They have sharpness at 0 which makes the picture out of focus. When I used the test patterns I found a setting of 50 was correct.
Also cnet complained about too much red. Their settings make the picture even more red.
I used their settings for my previous E series and they were excellent.
Are you sure you used the correct Cnet settings for the exact model? A dependency of 50 in sharpness setting is a red flag (unless it is preference but you mentioned you used a test pattern). And their settings have drastic reductions in the amount of red and so virtually impossible to look more red afterwards.
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