2014 Vizio Thread All models - Page 141 - AVS Forum
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post #4201 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by falkor1104 View Post
I purchased the 55" E and took it back because even after calibrating there seemed to be a red hue on everyone.
I was waiting for the 60" M and after reading the cnet review I don't know if it's worth the extra $300 or whatever it is.
I am trying to decide if it's worth waiting out for the P series or just go ahead and get the 60" E and try to get the red hue out again.
How did you calibrate it? With your eye and a DVD walkthrough or with a colorimeter?

Unless you had a defective panel, you certainly could calibrate out your red hue.

My ES8000 settings, calibrated with an i1D3 and calman:
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post #4202 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 10:21 AM
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When was the behind closed doors Vizio conference/press meeting suppose to happen? Was it this week? Was hoping to hear more potentially about R Series. Like is it actually going to come out.

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post #4203 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 11:15 AM
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When was the behind closed doors Vizio conference/press meeting suppose to happen? Was it this week? Was hoping to hear more potentially about R Series. Like is it actually going to come out.
It was last week. Vizio wouldn't say anything on the record about the P or the Reference series.
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post #4204 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
It was last week. Vizio wouldn't say anything on the record about the P or the Reference series.

All that was said is that they remain "firm" on previous released information at this time.


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post #4205 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post
How did you calibrate it? With your eye and a DVD walkthrough or with a colorimeter?

Unless you had a defective panel, you certainly could calibrate out your red hue.
To be honest at first I just eyeballed it, then I used cnet's calibration. Blu rays looked good, but then normal tv, it looked like everyone was sun burnt.

Besides the red hue everything else was good. Now I'm debating on waiting on the P series or just picking up the 60 E and get it calibrated.
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post #4206 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falkor1104 View Post
To be honest at first I just eyeballed it, then I used cnet's calibration. Blu rays looked good, but then normal tv, it looked like everyone was sun burnt.

Besides the red hue everything else was good. Now I'm debating on waiting on the P series or just picking up the 60 E and get it calibrated.
If you have the budget and enthusiam for the P series, why are you wasting your time with the E? I would imagine they are going to be radically different in both performance and price.
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post #4207 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 01:26 PM
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Well after reading that there's not too much difference between the E and M, and people have mentioned there may not be a huge difference between M and P at 10' away. I don't know if the P is worth double the price of an E.
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post #4208 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 01:29 PM
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There's enough of a difference between the E and M to warrant the cost. In my opinion after owning both.

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post #4209 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by archer75 View Post
There's enough of a difference between the E and M to warrant the cost. In my opinion after owning both.

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What size E do you have?
And what differences stand out?

I have not had a chance to see a M in person, Best Buy still does not have the 60".
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post #4210 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by falkor1104 View Post
Well after reading that there's not too much difference between the E and M, and people have mentioned there may not be a huge difference between M and P at 10' away. I don't know if the P is worth double the price of an E.

Who's saying there won't be much of a difference? Hard to say those things when the set hasn't been released. Especially since the P gets the upgraded internals compared to the M. While the actual science of the content you may be right, that only holds if both are the "same TV" or even close. Which right now they do not appear to be. Some of CNETS review was based on price and you having the ability to calibrate the set. If you can't dial in the settings with a meter the differences may be greater.


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post #4211 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by falkor1104 View Post
What size E do you have?
And what differences stand out?

I have not had a chance to see a M in person, Best Buy still does not have the 60".
I no longer have the E as I returned it to get the M.

The remote works better. The built in tuner is stronger.

Both tv's have great black levels and contrast but the detail in those blacks is lost on the E but are there on the M.

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post #4212 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 02:57 PM
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Hey guys this is not normally where I would post this but reading this forum for the past several I noticed there are several peoples opinion I would trust to answer this on the page. I am living in Starkville MS and there is not a single person capable of calibrating a tv properly for miles. I have decided to take the plunge and do it myself. After doing some research I have decided that the calman 5 software seems to be what I need to buy. My question is...is the c3 sufficient for obtaining accurate color representation? I notice there is a c6 which I am sure is much better but the difference in price is too much. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? What are the people on the forum using to calibrate their sets?
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post #4213 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 03:04 PM
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The id3 (oem if you can) or c3 should suit your needs for a basic calibration. It won't be the "best" but should suffice. I would head over to the Calibration section of the forums as there are many posts that as similar questions


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post #4214 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
Hey guys this is not normally where I would post this but reading this forum for the past several I noticed there are several peoples opinion I would trust to answer this on the page. I am living in Starkville MS and there is not a single person capable of calibrating a tv properly for miles. I have decided to take the plunge and do it myself. After doing some research I have decided that the calman 5 software seems to be what I need to buy. My question is...is the c3 sufficient for obtaining accurate color representation? I notice there is a c6 which I am sure is much better but the difference in price is too much. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? What are the people on the forum using to calibrate their sets?
My go to is an i1 profiled to an i1d3 pro, but if you don't want to spend that kind of cash on the i1 ($1200), the i1d3 will do the job.
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post #4215 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by falkor1104 View Post
To be honest at first I just eyeballed it, then I used cnet's calibration. Blu rays looked good, but then normal tv, it looked like everyone was sun burnt.

Besides the red hue everything else was good. Now I'm debating on waiting on the P series or just picking up the 60 E and get it calibrated.
I've noticed the custom calibration settings were independent for HDMI 1 input and the internal TV tuner as well as the built in apps. Not sure if they are independent across the other inputs as well.

I setup the cnet settings for HDMI 1, then went to the Amazon app to watch a movie, and had to reinput the settings.

I even saved custom names for HDMI 1, and locked the configuration (to keep kids from messing with it), and those presets were not present when in the Amazon app.
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post #4216 of 5695 Old 06-17-2014, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by archer75 View Post
There's enough of a difference between the E and M to warrant the cost. In my opinion after owning both.

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Ty Pendlebury, Katzmaier's partner, is providing you with a little bit of back up with his Sony KDL-W800B review http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-kdl-50w800b/


"In these mixed scenes the E-series actually looked slightly crushed while the M looked more natural."

"it was the Vizio E-series that showed the biggest differences. Reverting back to Nero lying on the slab in the aforementioned chapter of "Star Trek," the Vizio had the strangest yellow tint on his face (29.32) that none of the other models including the M-series displayed."
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post #4217 of 5695 Old 06-18-2014, 06:16 AM
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The manual for the E700i-B3 is now available. This isn't anything new, since it shares the manual with the E600i-B3, which has been out for a while. But...

Both of the links below point to identical files, but with different names and directories in the website. This might indicate the E700i-B3 is not too far away.

http://store.vizio.com/documents/dow...UM_E600iB3.pdf
http://store.vizio.com/documents/dow...UM_E700iB3.pdf - this file didn't exist yesterday.


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post #4218 of 5695 Old 06-18-2014, 06:34 AM
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While I am patiently waiting for the P series to come out, my mom was wanting a new HDTV this weekend. Her old HDTV was a 2008 model 42" Sharp, and it was starting to have overheating issues where she would have to unplug it and let it cool down before it would start to work again. Also, in her new house she is much farther away from the TV, so she wanted an increase in screen size as well. She starts off this conversation in walmart by asking me what I think about this 50" Element LED that walmart had marked down to the $300 range. My response was that it probably was better than what she had, but she would probably be replacing it in less than 3 years. I then show her some of the better name brands and unfortunately, none of the new Vizios are on display. So we go to Sam's Club to check out some stuff, and there I get to show her the new 2014 55" E-series with the full array backlighting. She was impressed. We were torn between that and the 55" Sharp Aquos, but we went with the Vizio, as I really wanted to see what the back lighting can do. Got it home, and set it up for her, and even SD content looks nice on this thing! It was the first Smart tv that I have ever used, and I setup my Netflix account on it for her to use, and she loves it!

Anyone have a link to that Cnet calibration settings for it? I want to do that for her the next time I go to visit there.

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post #4219 of 5695 Old 06-18-2014, 07:18 AM
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http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_10...ture-settings/

Just remember that the advanced settings he used might make your picture worse. Without calibration tools, there's no way to know. Each TV has its own personality.

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Anyone have a link to that Cnet calibration settings for it? I want to do that for her the next time I go to visit there.
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post #4220 of 5695 Old 06-18-2014, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by baniels View Post
http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_10...ture-settings/

Just remember that the advanced settings he used might make your picture worse. Without calibration tools, there's no way to know. Each TV has its own personality.
Yes. And if you have been reading you will see that actually most users have been happier just using the 10 point white scale and leaving the rest alone. I suggest playing around with all the setting and not take what cnet posted as the best options for PQ
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post #4221 of 5695 Old 06-18-2014, 07:35 AM
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While I am patiently waiting for the P series to come out, my mom was wanting a new HDTV this weekend. Her old HDTV was a 2008 model 42" Sharp, and it was starting to have overheating issues where she would have to unplug it and let it cool down before it would start to work again. Also, in her new house she is much farther away from the TV, so she wanted an increase in screen size as well. She starts off this conversation in walmart by asking me what I think about this 50" Element LED that walmart had marked down to the $300 range. My response was that it probably was better than what she had, but she would probably be replacing it in less than 3 years. I then show her some of the better name brands and unfortunately, none of the new Vizios are on display. So we go to Sam's Club to check out some stuff, and there I get to show her the new 2014 55" E-series with the full array backlighting. She was impressed. We were torn between that and the 55" Sharp Aquos, but we went with the Vizio, as I really wanted to see what the back lighting can do. Got it home, and set it up for her, and even SD content looks nice on this thing! It was the first Smart tv that I have ever used, and I setup my Netflix account on it for her to use, and she loves it!

Anyone have a link to that Cnet calibration settings for it? I want to do that for her the next time I go to visit there.
You could also use Spears and Munsil's calibration disk and get much better settings for her without guessing.
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post #4222 of 5695 Old 06-18-2014, 07:45 AM
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I've noticed the custom calibration settings were independent for HDMI 1 input and the internal TV tuner as well as the built in apps. Not sure if they are independent across the other inputs as well.

I setup the cnet settings for HDMI 1, then went to the Amazon app to watch a movie, and had to reinput the settings.

I even saved custom names for HDMI 1, and locked the configuration (to keep kids from messing with it), and those presets were not present when in the Amazon app.

Custom calibration settings are independent for each of the set's inputs, including the TV tuner, the shared composite inputs, and the VIA channel.


If you use a code to save the Professional settings, the 11-point white balance settings are retained, but the Color Tuner settings are NOT retained, and must be re-entered for each of the set's inputs. That's the way it is on my E550i-B2, anyway.
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post #4223 of 5695 Old 06-18-2014, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by baniels View Post
The manual for the E700i-B3 is now available. This isn't anything new, since it shares the manual with the E600i-B3, which has been out for a while. But...

Both of the links below point to identical files, but with different names and directories in the website. This might indicate the E700i-B3 is not too far away.

http://store.vizio.com/documents/dow...UM_E600iB3.pdf
http://store.vizio.com/documents/dow...UM_E700iB3.pdf - this file didn't exist yesterday.

The brightness on both of these panels is pretty disappointing (210 Nits). Activating the scanning backlight to deliver the 'Effective Refresh Rate' of 120Hz will reduce peak brightness to only 105 Nits, which is going to be too dim for bright-room viewing.


The 55" and 42" E Series reviewed by CNET both had 300 Nits (43% brighter), so I would not think that that review can be applied blindly to the 60" and 70" sizes. And the 65" E-Series has a brightness of 340 Nits (62% brighter).


The 60" M Series, by way of comparison, has 350 Nits (67% brighter) and the 65" M Series has 400 Nits (90% brighter), so at these larger panel sizes of 60" and 70" the increased brightness of the M-Series would appear to be another clear advantage over the E-Series.
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post #4224 of 5695 Old 06-18-2014, 03:06 PM
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The brightness on both of these panels is pretty disappointing (210 Nits). Activating the scanning backlight to deliver the 'Effective Refresh Rate' of 120Hz will reduce peak brightness to only 105 Nits, which is going to be too dim for bright-room viewing.


The 55" and 42" E Series reviewed by CNET both had 300 Nits (43% brighter), so I would not think that that review can be applied blindly to the 60" and 70" sizes. And the 65" E-Series has a brightness of 340 Nits (62% brighter).


The 60" M Series, by way of comparison, has 350 Nits (67% brighter) and the 65" M Series has 400 Nits (90% brighter), so at these larger panel sizes of 60" and 70" the increased brightness of the M-Series would appear to be another clear advantage over the E-Series.
Regarding brightness, scanning backlight & the M series -- it's worth pointing that the M appears to give no benefit with MBR on unless one also turns on SOE. I didn't believe that myself as stated in the CNet review, until I tried pulling up a "motion test" pattern video on youtube. While MBR certainly dimmed my M60, there was no improvement in motion. Turning on SOE though showed an immediate improvement. According to CNet, Katzmaier recorded only 300 lines of motion for the M60 unless SOE is engaged. Also, apparently 24p film cadence is not proper unless SOE (smoothing) is on as well.

I went back to check CNet's E review, and curiously, the E55 does get better motion with MBR on (E series has no smoothing option), AND 24p works correctly on the 55 w/ or w/o MBR on. I have to hope(!) that this is a firmware issue that could be resolved. It sounding like the M60 behaves like a 60Hz tv while it should be at least 120Hz, and has a MBR option you can toggle on/off with no effect besides brightness (unless SOE is on).
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post #4225 of 5695 Old 06-18-2014, 03:43 PM
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Regarding brightness, scanning backlight & the M series -- it's worth pointing that the M appears to give no benefit with MBR on unless one also turns on SOE. I didn't believe that myself as stated in the CNet review, until I tried pulling up a "motion test" pattern video on youtube. While MBR certainly dimmed my M60, there was no improvement in motion. Turning on SOE though showed an immediate improvement. According to CNet, Katzmaier recorded only 300 lines of motion for the M60 unless SOE is engaged. Also, apparently 24p film cadence is not proper unless SOE (smoothing) is on as well.

I went back to check CNet's E review, and curiously, the E55 does get better motion with MBR on (E series has no smoothing option), AND 24p works correctly on the 55 w/ or w/o MBR on. I have to hope(!) that this is a firmware issue that could be resolved. It sounding like the M60 behaves like a 60Hz tv while it should be at least 120Hz, and has a MBR option you can toggle on/off with no effect besides brightness (unless SOE is on).

Ya, that concerns me as well, MBR having an impact on some panel sizes and not others. And even those impacts are small.

But also note the reviewer has no problem watching a TV with 300 lines of motion and prefers that to SOE. He also sees no difference between Lowe, Medium and High settings of smooth motion. You can't pick that up in motion patterns usually but you can pick it up in other content. So I think in general he is not as sensitive to the issue, at least compared to me. Motion is a tough one and varies by person.

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post #4226 of 5695 Old 06-19-2014, 06:30 AM
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You could also use Spears and Munsil's calibration disk and get much better settings for her without guessing.
I have the Disney WOW BD, so I will have to try that out on there too.

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http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_10...ture-settings/

Just remember that the advanced settings he used might make your picture worse. Without calibration tools, there's no way to know. Each TV has its own personality.
Thanks! I will use this as the base setting and see what running the afore mentioned WOW disk does to tweak it.

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post #4227 of 5695 Old 06-19-2014, 09:23 AM
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CNET Settings

I have been going back and forth between the CNET settings for the 60" M series and my own adjustments starting with the "Calibrated" picture mode, and I have found that the CNET settings using the "Computer" temperature setting is probably giving me the best results, but I still would like to get some of the red out of the faces, and I can't do it with the Tint setting alone. Has anyone with the proper equipment attempted to do this? I know that each set can need different adjustments, but other people have commented on the reddish tint with the CNET settings, so I'm hoping that someone might have been able to adjust those settings to tone down the red a little. The obvious place that I tried was in adjusting down the red gain and offset in the "Color Tuner" section, but I know all of the settings in that section are interrelated, and since I don't have equipment to do it properly I really don't know which settings to adjust. So far I have not been able to get really accurate skin tones from channel to channel.

If anyone has any experience tweaking those CNET settings please post your results so I can give them a try.

Thanks.
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post #4228 of 5695 Old 06-19-2014, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by xkalibur View Post
Regarding brightness, scanning backlight & the M series -- it's worth pointing that the M appears to give no benefit with MBR on unless one also turns on SOE. I didn't believe that myself as stated in the CNet review, until I tried pulling up a "motion test" pattern video on youtube. While MBR certainly dimmed my M60, there was no improvement in motion. Turning on SOE though showed an immediate improvement. According to CNet, Katzmaier recorded only 300 lines of motion for the M60 unless SOE is engaged. Also, apparently 24p film cadence is not proper unless SOE (smoothing) is on as well.

I went back to check CNet's E review, and curiously, the E55 does get better motion with MBR on (E series has no smoothing option), AND 24p works correctly on the 55 w/ or w/o MBR on. I have to hope(!) that this is a firmware issue that could be resolved. It sounding like the M60 behaves like a 60Hz tv while it should be at least 120Hz, and has a MBR option you can toggle on/off with no effect besides brightness (unless SOE is on).
Please bear in mind that the OEM for the B2 series is different than the B0, B1, and (presumably) the B3 series of E-version sets. The measured input lag of the B2 48" and 55' E-version sets is also lower than the other B"n" versions, too. To me, that implies a different design than the other OEMs in terms of electronic hardware other than just the panels.


Does the lower lag result in better 24p cadence? Maybe, but until someone actually does a teardown of multiple sets and assesses the differences between Wistron, TPV, and any other OEMs Vizio uses for their sets, we won't know. It's all surmise. One thing I can assume to be correct: Vizio, themselves, won't be the ones to tell us that. I know I wouldn't, in their situation.
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post #4229 of 5695 Old 06-19-2014, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronzo3 View Post
Please bear in mind that the OEM for the B2 series is different than the B0, B1, and (presumably) the B3 series of E-version sets. The measured input lag of the B2 48" and 55' E-version sets is also lower than the other B"n" versions, too. To me, that implies a different design than the other OEMs in terms of electronic hardware other than just the panels.


Does the lower lag result in better 24p cadence? Maybe, but until someone actually does a teardown of multiple sets and assesses the differences between Wistron, TPV, and any other OEMs Vizio uses for their sets, we won't know. It's all surmise. One thing I can assume to be correct: Vizio, themselves, won't be the ones to tell us that. I know I wouldn't, in their situation.
I'm not sure input lag is a correlation here, but I agree with your general point about the different builds. It just seems odd for the M to have an option that (alone) has no positive effect. It's one clear disadvantage of the M over the E55 (in my mind): E 55" can achieve better motion resolution w/o SOE than the M 60".

That said, I seem to not be that sensitive to it either, because I absolutely love my M60 still. I'm also not a sports watcher; but I have watched some basketball & soccer clips lately, and it seemed just fine to me.
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post #4230 of 5695 Old 06-19-2014, 10:20 AM
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Where is the 2014 E and M series 70 inch models? Ive looked at amazon but seems all are 2013 models?


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