2014 Vizio Thread All models - Page 149 - AVS Forum
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post #4441 of 5813 Old 07-04-2014, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
What are your thoughts about going from a CRT-based display(I'm assuming that Hitachi is CRT) with the outstanding black levels and contrast that goes with a CRT to a technology that even today struggles with matching that quality? I really wanted to believe that the newer LCD sets were just about there but I was at a Magnolia yesterday and it was very apparent which display looked the best and it wasn't any of the LCDs, it was the Samsung F8500. The Sony BR65X900B with the side speakers came very close, but the plasma was the winner in my eyes.

I ask as I know myself and I'm really struggling with the thought of losing that CRT/plasma image quality if I move to an LCD. Is that something you've considered and if so what are your thoughts?
To be quite frank, my biggest concern is screen glare. The reason I chose this Hitachi over the Mits at the time was its anti-glare screen. My daughter had a Mits in a similarly lit home and it was very unwatchable during the day with the blinds open. Conversely, the Hitachi has been excellent in that regard. The picture on the Hitachi seems to have gotten washed out over time and I've not done anything to clean it, etc. It doesn't have HDMI and at 10+ yrs of age, it's simply time to replace it and it looks like a Vizio 70" might be the best deal this year. I do miss how stunning it looked back when we bought it, but then HD was full bit-rate back then. I am a little concerned about the black levels, etc., but we've given up so much in PQ with sub-channels, etc., and we don't watch a lot of movies, so I'm not sure how much real difference it's going to make. Compared to how the Hitachi is currently performing, I think being able to watch Blue-Ray on a new LCD will bring back some of that Wow factor even if the blacks aren't there. I'm sure I could have it cleaned and calibrated, but it's just too big and I'm ready for a change, and some Smart features, even though I have those on the TiVo. We do have an RCA LCD in the bedroom and I think it looks pretty nice. But it's only 40", so I don't know how a 70" will compare. I just bought a new 2014 Prius 4, so you can tell I'm okay with making compromises. It won't be delivered until next week, so I don't know how I'm going to like that either. Like the Hitachi, our Montana is over 15 yrs old and time to be replaced. Our first trip starts Aug 26 for 37 days, so I'll know soon enough. The TV will probably wait until I see Christmas sales at Costco.

Cheers, Dave
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post #4442 of 5813 Old 07-04-2014, 11:17 AM
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I feel better now--my 46" Mits CCFL backlit LCD panel is only 7 years old . Even though I sit very close to it, I could stand a larger monitor, so I'm going 55" or 60" P-Series (I think that 65" would be too large for my 5 foot viewing distance).

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post #4443 of 5813 Old 07-04-2014, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Still very happy with my 10+ year old Mits 73" CRT/RPTV, at least I was until this past Monday when something failed/broke and it won't display HDCP-encrypted content anymore. I've been very interested in the P series 70" as I don't want to go down in size but now I may be forced to get something earlier than I had planned.

What are your thoughts about going from a CRT-based display(I'm assuming that Hitachi is CRT) with the outstanding black levels and contrast that goes with a CRT to a technology that even today struggles with matching that quality? I really wanted to believe that the newer LCD sets were just about there but I was at a Magnolia yesterday and it was very apparent which display looked the best and it wasn't any of the LCDs, it was the Samsung F8500. The Sony BR65X900B with the side speakers came very close, but the plasma was the winner in my eyes.

I ask as I know myself and I'm really struggling with the thought of losing that CRT/plasma image quality if I move to an LCD. Is that something you've considered and if so what are your thoughts?

Thanks
I think you answered your own question. I'm willing to give up a little bit of PQ performance for 10 more inches and worry free image retention. Still, I'll have to be careful replacing my E7000 plasma. I'm hoping the 70" P series fits the bill and I'm heartened to hear you opined that you thought the Sony with the insane speakers came very close.

As for going from a CRT to a LCD, just my opinion, I would say the dramatic increase in resolution and richer colors would more than offset any black levels/contrast drop off.

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post #4444 of 5813 Old 07-04-2014, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post
To be quite frank, my biggest concern is screen glare. The reason I chose this Hitachi over the Mits at the time was its anti-glare screen. My daughter had a Mits in a similarly lit home and it was very unwatchable during the day with the blinds open. Conversely, the Hitachi has been excellent in that regard. The picture on the Hitachi seems to have gotten washed out over time and I've not done anything to clean it, etc. It doesn't have HDMI and at 10+ yrs of age, it's simply time to replace it and it looks like a Vizio 70" might be the best deal this year. I do miss how stunning it looked back when we bought it, but then HD was full bit-rate back then. I am a little concerned about the black levels, etc., but we've given up so much in PQ with sub-channels, etc., and we don't watch a lot of movies, so I'm not sure how much real difference it's going to make. Compared to how the Hitachi is currently performing, I think being able to watch Blue-Ray on a new LCD will bring back some of that Wow factor even if the blacks aren't there. I'm sure I could have it cleaned and calibrated, but it's just too big and I'm ready for a change, and some Smart features, even though I have those on the TiVo. We do have an RCA LCD in the bedroom and I think it looks pretty nice. But it's only 40", so I don't know how a 70" will compare. I just bought a new 2014 Prius 4, so you can tell I'm okay with making compromises. It won't be delivered until next week, so I don't know how I'm going to like that either. Like the Hitachi, our Montana is over 15 yrs old and time to be replaced. Our first trip starts Aug 26 for 37 days, so I'll know soon enough. The TV will probably wait until I see Christmas sales at Costco.
I forget what it's called but the Mits I have has a screen shield thing and the first thing the AV-phile does is remove it and then there is no glare, apparently it's common knowledge among "those in the know", the guy that does my calibrations told me about the "trick". I think Mits marketed as something to stop glare but it works better without it!

If your Hitachi has never been cleaned/calibrated since you purchased I think you would be shocked at how good it would look. But I hear you, it's time to move on, in my case, glare is not an issue as the display is typically used at night anyway with the occasional daytime sporting event.

Thanks for the input Dave, and good luck with the new car and the new display!
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post #4445 of 5813 Old 07-04-2014, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
I feel better now--my 46" Mits CCFL backlit LCD panel is only 7 years old . Even though I sit very close to it, I could stand a larger monitor, so I'm going 55" or 60" P-Series (I think that 65" would be too large for my 5 foot viewing distance).
Nah, the 65" will be just fine...

Spoiler!
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post #4446 of 5813 Old 07-04-2014, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Nah, the 65" will be just fine...

Spoiler!

Ah--the Ludovico Treatment in 4K!

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post #4447 of 5813 Old 07-04-2014, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
I forget what it's called but the Mits I have has a screen shield thing and the first thing the AV-phile does is remove it and then there is no glare, apparently it's common knowledge among "those in the know", the guy that does my calibrations told me about the "trick". I think Mits marketed as something to stop glare but it works better without it!

If your Hitachi has never been cleaned/calibrated since you purchased I think you would be shocked at how good it would look. But I hear you, it's time to move on, in my case, glare is not an issue as the display is typically used at night anyway with the occasional daytime sporting event.

Thanks for the input Dave, and good luck with the new car and the new display!
You're very welcome Keenan, always a pleasure to chat with you. I knew about removing the shield, but I liked the look of the Hitachi better at the time and the price was a little less because there was a sale at Ultimate Electronics. I'm sure my set could be brought back to its former glory, but as you noted, I'm just ready to move on. With my luck, I'd get it worked on and then something would fail.

Cheers, Dave
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post #4448 of 5813 Old 07-04-2014, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post
You're very welcome Keenan, always a pleasure to chat with you. I knew about removing the shield, but I liked the look of the Hitachi better at the time and the price was a little less because there was a sale at Ultimate Electronics. I'm sure my set could be brought back to its former glory, but as you noted, I'm just ready to move on. With my luck, I'd get it worked on and then something would fail.
That's almost what happened to me! I've been reading the threads, seeing some of the new displays, doing the research, and then coming home and watching my Mits and thinking I should just get it cleaned and calibrated and it will hold me over me at least until this first wave 4K capable(to be clear, I don't really care if it does 4K or not, it just so happens the P series does 4K) FALD displays hit the market and get the workout they need so we can all make an informed decision on whether to buy or not. Well, the day I was going to cal for the clean/cal appointment was the very day it stopped playing HDCP content. It was like my Mits was telling, "nope, don't waste the money, it's time to move on"!
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post #4449 of 5813 Old 07-04-2014, 06:20 PM
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I think you answered your own question. I'm willing to give up a little bit of PQ performance for 10 more inches and worry free image retention. Still, I'll have to be careful replacing my E7000 plasma. I'm hoping the 70" P series fits the bill and I'm heartened to hear you opined that you thought the Sony with the insane speakers came very close.

As for going from a CRT to a LCD, just my opinion, I would say the dramatic increase in resolution and richer colors would more than offset any black levels/contrast drop off.
All good points. Apparently the Samsung does not have the IR issues that were somewhat of an issue with the Panasonics, whether that's really the case or not, I have no idea but I've heard it from my ISF guy as well as reading it here and from my friend who works at Magnolia. Regarding the colors with the Samsung, they are as vibrant and rich, maybe even more so than all the LCDs that were there as well, and this was in a brightly lit room. One of the first things I noticed was that when even set in Dynamic mode, which is everything pushed to limit, the letterbox bars looked as if someone had taken some black electrical tape and covered the top and bottom of the screen, there was absolutely no light bleed at all. Every other display exhibited some light bleed, some bad and some(Sony) did a pretty decent job of it, but none could match the Samsung.

To be clear, I'm not here to knock the Vizio, I really, really do want to see the P series, I'm just between a rock and a hard place right now with my current display failing on me. Plus, with the announcement that Samsung is ceasing plasma production in Nov those F8500's are going to start going fast and for ever increasing prices so my window to pull the trigger is getting smaller.

If the P series were here today my problem would disappear, but sadly, for me anyway, we're still looking at Sept(?).

P.S. As far as IR, having had CRT-based HD displays for the last 14 years I've got a fairly good handle on how to avoid burn-in, the amount of 4x3 films I've watched over the last 10 years is probably less than 1% of total viewing time, I just don't do it.
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post #4450 of 5813 Old 07-05-2014, 08:53 PM
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I just got my 64" F8500 to replace my Hitachi 57" RP-CRT I bought in 2004. I couldn't wait for Vizio to maybe deliver on their CES hype. Passing on what I know to be a great performer for some unknown quantity is just bad decision making. I don't expect the P to measure up (too few zones), and who knows if / when we'll see the Reference series or how good it will be and what it will cost. With all those unknowns the smart decision is to buy the F8500 now while they're still available.
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post #4451 of 5813 Old 07-05-2014, 08:56 PM
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Best Buy showing the M492i ship to store in 3 to 5 days.

Cant wait to see this baby! (and the M502i)

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post #4452 of 5813 Old 07-06-2014, 09:41 AM
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I just got my 64" F8500 to replace my Hitachi 57" RP-CRT I bought in 2004. I couldn't wait for Vizio to maybe deliver on their CES hype. Passing on what I know to be a great performer for some unknown quantity is just bad decision making. I don't expect the P to measure up (too few zones), and who knows if / when we'll see the Reference series or how good it will be and what it will cost. With all those unknowns the smart decision is to buy the F8500 now while they're still available.
Wise words indeed, which is why I have already put a 10% deposit down on a F8500 to "hold" a unit while I give Vizio a bit more time to show me what they have with the impending P-series. When stock starts to get low my salesman will notify me it's time to move on it, although, since production is continuing until Nov I don't expect there to be a scarcity issue anytime soon.

I also have similar thoughts about the P series, I would have preferred more zones but then the unit would likely cost more than the announced $2600 MSRP, and it's still an LED - not that that's a bad thing - but the tech has of yet to match plasma/CRT quality in the image quality areas that are important to me, maybe the P will push through that barrier...

I did get my Mits back to an acceptable condition(convergence/color adjustments) over the weekend, and the HDMI port actually started working again so I have some room as to when I actually have to make a decision. That said, the P would have to be nearly a world killer to beat out the F8500 based on what I've seen/read about the latter. And 4K doesn't mean anything to me, cool if it's there, but it doesn't factor into my decision.
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post #4453 of 5813 Old 07-06-2014, 10:06 AM
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Quick question about the upcoming P Series QWERTY remote:

Does anyone know if the new remote will be wifi or if it will use bluetooth?

An article from CNET back on Jan. 6th directly says it will be using bluetooth instead of wifi, but I have seen conflicting information from various places.

Thanks.
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post #4454 of 5813 Old 07-06-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by brshoemak View Post
Quick question about the upcoming P Series QWERTY remote:

Does anyone know if the new remote will be wifi or if it will use bluetooth?

An article from CNET back on Jan. 6th directly says it will be using bluetooth instead of wifi, but I have seen conflicting information from various places.

Thanks.
I thought I read somewhere that it would be WiFi. It might have been on ces.vizio.com
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post #4455 of 5813 Old 07-09-2014, 02:59 PM
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can you run vizio e series monitors at 24p from a ps3 or HTPC?

If not on a HTPC could I make a custom resolution close to 23.976hz?
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post #4456 of 5813 Old 07-09-2014, 05:48 PM
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Well, i guess there's zero chance of anybody reviewing or testing the 50" Vizio E for input lag with the Leo B testing device. Thanks vizio for giving your sets different panels. sigh*
55" is my safe zone, but i would rather go for the smaller 50" if it also can do 27ms of lag with Active LED lights set to 'off'
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post #4457 of 5813 Old 07-09-2014, 07:35 PM
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can you run vizio e series monitors at 24p from a ps3 or HTPC?



If not on a HTPC could I make a custom resolution close to 23.976hz?
@iceblast may be able to help you with the E series as I believe he uses it for a computer monitor only.


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post #4458 of 5813 Old 07-09-2014, 11:20 PM
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Well, i guess there's zero chance of anybody reviewing or testing the 50" Vizio E for input lag with the Leo B testing device. Thanks vizio for giving your sets different panels. sigh*
55" is my safe zone, but i would rather go for the smaller 50" if it also can do 27ms of lag with Active LED lights set to 'off'

(off topic)
LOL! this is too funny. I used to be in this thread daily(hourly) waiting and waiting for the P-series. One thing I remember fondly is WaveBoy stressing over input lag. I have since moved on with another tv purchase, which I have been enjoying for about 45 days now, but apparently some things never change! I wish someone would start a pole to see how many truly believe WaveBoy will ever purchase a tv.


I guess I cant talk about you too much. I to take a long time with decisions
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post #4459 of 5813 Old 07-10-2014, 12:15 AM
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can you run vizio e series monitors at 24p from a ps3 or HTPC?

If not on a HTPC could I make a custom resolution close to 23.976hz?
You can run 24p video on the E series, but the E series is 60hz, so it won't be true 24p

Only tv's that are 120hz and up, that can divide by 24 perfectly can run true 24p. So, 120hz / 24 = 5 240hz / 24 = 10.

So, I would say, the M series should be able to run True 24p.

But the E series shouldn't have any trouble running 24p, using 3:2 pulldown.

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post #4460 of 5813 Old 07-10-2014, 07:48 AM
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Anybody in the Phoenix, AZ metro area know of anyone with the 2014 55" in stock?
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post #4461 of 5813 Old 07-10-2014, 08:20 AM
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LOL! this is too funny. I used to be in this thread daily(hourly) waiting and waiting for the P-series. One thing I remember fondly is WaveBoy stressing over input lag. I have since moved on with another tv purchase, which I have been enjoying for about 45 days now, but apparently some things never change! I wish someone would start a pole to see how many truly believe WaveBoy will ever purchase a tv.


I guess I cant talk about you too much. I to take a long time with decisions
haha. I promise you i will have the Vizio E at the end of this month, mark my words.
I've also been waiting for input lag numbers for over a month now on the 50" version and nothing has popped up. Looks like that that's something that will never change either.
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post #4462 of 5813 Old 07-10-2014, 08:49 AM
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haha. I promise you i will have the Vizio E at the end of this month, mark my words.
I've also been waiting for input lag numbers for over a month now on the 50" version and nothing has popped up. Looks like that that's something that will never change either.
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post #4463 of 5813 Old 07-10-2014, 09:02 AM
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Great song.
Gotta love the 80's tee hee.
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post #4464 of 5813 Old 07-10-2014, 11:47 AM
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Can anyone share calibration settings for the VIZIO M492i-B2?

also why isnt the 50" version out yet?
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post #4465 of 5813 Old 07-10-2014, 11:59 AM
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Can anyone share calibration settings for the VIZIO M492i-B2?

also why isnt the 50" version out yet?

Check and ask in the am series owners thread. That's where you'll get the best answer. Just remember that using someone else's settings is not recommended as it may make your TV look worse.

As far as the 50" who knows, only Vizio would have that answer and I'm sure they aren't speaking on it.


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post #4466 of 5813 Old 07-10-2014, 12:44 PM
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What's up with the 65" D Class vs the 65" E Class? Looks identical except an extra HDMI Input. So weird they would make both of these.

http://store.vizio.com/led-lcd-hdtvs/d650ib2.html
http://store.vizio.com/led-lcd-hdtvs/e650ib2.html

Vizio's website is a mess. There are nine D and E series 32" TVs. Nine!
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post #4467 of 5813 Old 07-10-2014, 12:53 PM
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D series seems to be the "ultra" budget model. Think almost BF version


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post #4468 of 5813 Old 07-10-2014, 01:13 PM
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The differences that I can see in the specs are:

  • The "D-Series" has 3 HDMI ports versus 4 on the E-Series, and 1 USB port versus 2
  • The component video, composite video, analog and S/PDIF audio connections on the E-Series are on the side, but on the bottom on the D-Series
  • The D-Series is Energy Star 6.1 compliant versus ES 6.0 for the E-Series
  • The D-Series draws 120.23W in operation version 143.85W by the E-Series

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post #4469 of 5813 Old 07-10-2014, 01:15 PM
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D series also has less Zones.


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post #4470 of 5813 Old 07-10-2014, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
The differences that I can see in the specs are:

  • The "D-Series" has 3 HDMI ports versus 4 on the E-Series, and 1 USB port versus 2
  • The component video, composite video, analog and S/PDIF audio connections on the E-Series are on the side, but on the bottom on the D-Series
  • The D-Series is Energy Star 6.1 compliant versus ES 6.0 for the E-Series
  • The D-Series draws 120.23W in operation version 143.85W by the E-Series
These hardly seem significant enough to confuse the market with another model, but what do I know?

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D series also has less Zones.
On the 65", both models advertise 6 Zones.
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