2014 Vizio Thread All models - Page 154 - AVS Forum
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post #4591 of 5921 Old 07-19-2014, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by aeroguy View Post
Hmmm, was trying to decide between the E-Series 70" and M-Series 65" to fit in my budget, but the E-Series 70" isn't even on the Vizio website. Did it get cancelled?


The 70" E hasn't been released yet.
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post #4592 of 5921 Old 07-19-2014, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rtn5000 View Post
The 70" E hasn't been released yet.
I realized that, but others haven't been released (i.e. don't have a price), but they still show up on the website.
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post #4593 of 5921 Old 07-19-2014, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by aeroguy View Post
I realized that, but others haven't been released (i.e. don't have a price), but they still show up on the website.

Not sure which sets haven't been released but are on the website (which website). If they show up on Vizios site then usually have been released. All of the E's and M's have prices that were released when they were announced. The 70m was found with some sleuthing about a week or so ago via its manual. The 70E may not be that far behind, there just is no indication of when (much like the other sets).


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post #4594 of 5921 Old 07-19-2014, 10:11 AM
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I bet he's referring to the 65" E which has been up on Vizio.com with a "coming soon" designation where the price usually shows. Seems like it's been that way for several weeks now. I too am wondering what is going on with the larger sizes of the E series, and honestly wouldn't be holding my breath if I was looking to buy a tv right now.
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post #4595 of 5921 Old 07-19-2014, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Not sure which sets haven't been released but are on the website (which website). If they show up on Vizios site then usually have been released. All of the E's and M's have prices that were released when they were announced. The 70m was found with some sleuthing about a week or so ago via its manual. The 70E may not be that far behind, there just is no indication of when (much like the other sets).


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Actually the manual for the 70" M series was uncovered way more than a week ago (I think the manual for the mysterious 50" M series was uncovered by baniels as usual about a week ago - though incomplete), I believe it has been a little less than a week that it has been in stock on Vizio's storefront. I don't know how long Amazon has had a placeholder for the 70M Series (I guess you need to click on the 70" box) but I noticed it a couple of days ago.

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post #4596 of 5921 Old 07-19-2014, 12:26 PM
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I just noticed the following text on this video from January at around the 12s mark: "Actual number of LED lights, Active LED Zones, and LED size vary by model". So if an astute observer would have noticed this at the time we might have speculated well before the Sound and Vision review of the E series (it references the P series) that the larger sizes would have more zones. In any case it only adds to the possibility that the 70" P series will have 96 zones.

Yes, I'm probably going to give Vizio at least 5 lives (if a cat can have 9 why not?) and give the 50" P series an audition. I have a hard time spending $1800 on the PN51F8500 (as a secondary television) and other possible LCD televisions would be approaching or exceeding the F8500's price.

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post #4597 of 5921 Old 07-19-2014, 12:59 PM
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Going to costco this afternoon. Should I pick the vizio M602i-B3 for $1149.99 or samsung UN60H6300AF $1289.99 with a free BD-HM59C 3D Wi-Fi Blu-ray Player and spend the extra cash? Thanks.
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post #4598 of 5921 Old 07-19-2014, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by EErik View Post
Going to costco this afternoon. Should I pick the vizio M602i-B3 for $1149.99 or samsung UN60H6300AF $1289.99 with a free BD-HM59C 3D Wi-Fi Blu-ray Player and spend the extra cash? Thanks.
the bluray player by itself is 60 bucks you could save the money and get a better one or compare the two and see which one you like the best i haven't seen the samsung, but the m60 seems to be the better choice.
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post #4599 of 5921 Old 07-19-2014, 09:52 PM
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I returned my 55 3 days after messing with it. I was following this for a while and pulled the trigger. Keep in mind I really wanted to like this tv...

Color accuracy is poor compared to my old 42" panny g20. No flash lighting but definite dse and clouding issue as well. The skin and other various neutral tones in sand, light colored walls, etc accuracy really bothered me. Seemed teal-ish. That was with cent settings and still after trying to tweak myself (im no pro but have setup quite a few high end tv's and know people that do it for a living). The dse was also very distracting in similar scenes where the backdrop was a solid-ish medium-light in color. I've always been a plasma guy and this tv made me realise why. The clouding didn't kill me but was extremely noticeable compared to any plasma.

I replaced the vizio with a 55h7150 after 3 days(arrived the 4th day) and am extremely happy with the switch. Couldn't clear the price of the 60f8500 with the wife and didn't want to go to a 51... back to the 7150: A tiny bit of flash lighting in the bottom right (not noticeable except in a dark room on black screen) but no color accuracy issues, dse, and clouding is half as bad as the vizio though not quite as good as a plasma. Also, something I'm not extremely concerned with but is a plus is the better viewing angle for friends coming over. COLOR does shift a bit more at angles on the 7150 but doesn't wash out as quickly which imo is more important.

Overall I hate to say it was very unimpressed with the Visio wife wasn't thrilled about the extra cash for the 7150 but even she noticed a large difference in color accuracy and clouding. Having the vizio we would go to our room just to watch tv on the smaller panny plasma.

Just wanted to share my/our experience with you guys.
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post #4600 of 5921 Old 07-19-2014, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Audiophizile View Post
I returned my 55 3 days after messing with it. I was following this for a while and pulled the trigger. Keep in mind I really wanted to like this tv...

Color accuracy is poor compared to my old 42" panny g20. No flash lighting but definite dse and clouding issue as well. The skin and other various neutral tones in sand, light colored walls, etc accuracy really bothered me. Seemed teal-ish. That was with cent settings and still after trying to tweak myself (im no pro but have setup quite a few high end tv's and know people that do it for a living). The dse was also very distracting in similar scenes where the backdrop was a solid-ish medium-light in color. I've always been a plasma guy and this tv made me realise why. The clouding didn't kill me but was extremely noticeable compared to any plasma.

I replaced the vizio with a 55h7150 after 3 days(arrived the 4th day) and am extremely happy with the switch. Couldn't clear the price of the 60f8500 with the wife and didn't want to go to a 51... back to the 7150: A tiny bit of flash lighting in the bottom right (not noticeable except in a dark room on black screen) but no color accuracy issues, dse, and clouding is half as bad as the vizio though not quite as good as a plasma. Also, something I'm not extremely concerned with but is a plus is the better viewing angle for friends coming over. COLOR does shift a bit more at angles on the 7150 but doesn't wash out as quickly which imo is more important.

Overall I hate to say it was very unimpressed with the Visio wife wasn't thrilled about the extra cash for the 7150 but even she noticed a large difference in color accuracy and clouding. Having the vizio we would go to our room just to watch tv on the smaller panny plasma.

Just wanted to share my/our experience with you guys.
I also thought DSE was distracting but I have to wonder if you left the local dimming scheme engaged. If you did then you definitely had a defective television as uniformity should be excellent with the dimming scheme turned on. And be prepared for perhaps some curt comments for attempting to fix your color issues by tweaking the settings by eyeball. But it's a valid point that it appears in most case color accuracy is way off out of the box. I had more of an issue with color depth.

I agree, those coming from a good plasma will not likely be satisfied with the new M series but I'm pretty sure I would be even less happy with the H7150 despite having much closer reference levels for color accuracy out of the box and better video processing as the Samsung's issues with clouding, flashlighting and lack of contrast would freak me out further. I'm going to first check out the P series before committing to the F8500 or perhaps the F5300.

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post #4601 of 5921 Old 07-20-2014, 01:30 AM
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What threw me off was he said there was excessive clouding. Which really shouldn't be there with these 2014 sets unless settings are really out of wack. If clouding was as bad as he reported I'm surprised we haven't seen more reported of it. It sounds almost like he got a 2013 model which has been reported to have some clouding issues (here and there).


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post #4602 of 5921 Old 07-20-2014, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
What threw me off was he said there was excessive clouding. Which really shouldn't be there with these 2014 sets unless settings are really out of wack. If clouding was as bad as he reported I'm surprised we haven't seen more reported of it. It sounds almost like he got a 2013 model which has been reported to have some clouding issues (here and there).


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Yeah, I haven't heard of anyone complaining about clouding on the new 2014 line either. The 2014 Vizio line are Full Array LED's, so clouding shouldn't really be a issue. It's one of the selling points in most of the reviews. I don't know if his source could be introducing a cloud like effect or not. But his new tv seems to have it as well, so, who knows.

Everything is digital now, and the picture will only be as good as the digital data transmitted.

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post #4603 of 5921 Old 07-20-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by iceblast View Post
Yeah, I haven't heard of anyone complaining about clouding on the new 2014 line either. The 2014 Vizio line are Full Array LED's, so clouding shouldn't really be a issue. It's one of the selling points in most of the reviews. I don't know if his source could be introducing a cloud like effect or not. But his new tv seems to have it as well, so, who knows.



Everything is digital now, and the picture will only be as good as the digital data transmitted.

The 7150 is an edge lit TV so that sounds more correct he may be using clouding when it's actually something else however. Without knowing settings etc we'll never know.


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post #4604 of 5921 Old 07-20-2014, 01:03 PM
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When you first turn on the 2014 M series you momentarily see a black screen with the Vizio logo in the center and at this point the dimming scheme is not engaged. With my television there was some unevenness with this start up screen, the most plausible explanation IMO is Audiophizile simply turned off the Active LED Zone option. It would explain why he saw clouding. That he saw no flashlighting and noted the DSE indicates to me he probably did have a 2014 model. That he didn't mention the dimming scheme implies he may not have known the significance of it.

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post #4605 of 5921 Old 07-20-2014, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by iceblast View Post
Yeah, I haven't heard of anyone complaining about clouding on the new 2014 line either. The 2014 Vizio line are Full Array LED's, so clouding shouldn't really be a issue. It's one of the selling points in most of the reviews. I don't know if his source could be introducing a cloud like effect or not. But his new tv seems to have it as well, so, who knows.

Everything is digital now, and the picture will only be as good as the digital data transmitted.
I could be using the wrong term. White text on black, credits at the end of show/movie, showed what looked like a light cloud around it. This does not happen with my g20 and on the 7150 not nearly as bad as the vizio viewing the exact same source and show. I setup with cnets exact settings then made another setting with cnets stand adjusted color settings to try and correct the tealish neutral colors. I know by eye is not the way to do this but both settings showed the same effect in the scenario described.

For the money it may be good to some people or maybe I had a bad one. Either way I was/am disappointed. Again I really did want to like it.
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post #4606 of 5921 Old 07-20-2014, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Audiophizile View Post
I could be using the wrong term. White text on black, credits at the end of show/movie, showed what looked like a light cloud around it. This does not happen with my g20 and on the 7150 not nearly as bad as the vizio viewing the exact same source and show. I setup with cnets exact settings then made another setting with cnets stand adjusted color settings to try and correct the tealish neutral colors. I know by eye is not the way to do this but both settings showed the same effect in the scenario described.

For the money it may be good to some people or maybe I had a bad one. Either way I was/am disappointed. Again I really did want to like it.
I think you call that blooming. If you have Active LED Zone On, then you'll see this issue, if you have it Off, not so much. Blooming is rare with Active LED Zones Off in my experience, and most LED tv's will have some blooming during credits, and personally I could careless if it happens there or not. I would drop this into the nitpicker area. But you want what you want. Go with what makes you happy. I think for most people, credits aren't that important, and blooming isn't even that big a deal in Active LED Zones.
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post #4607 of 5921 Old 07-20-2014, 05:54 PM
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I think you call that blooming. If you have Active LED Zone On, then you'll see this issue, if you have it Off, not so much. Blooming is rare with Active LED Zones Off in my experience, and most LED tv's will have some blooming during credits, and personally I could careless if it happens there or not. I would drop this into the nitpicker area. But you want what you want. Go with what makes you happy. I think for most people, credits aren't that important, and blooming isn't even that big a deal in Active LED Zones.
I agree. That is why I put it last in my initial comments of the tv. Was just another thing I noticed that I didn't like. That was by no means the deal breaker. More like a decorative flower on the "return me" cake.

And I do believe we'd all be in the f8500 thread or a high-end 4k thread if we could all get what we want The $700 over the 7150 just wasn't there. Again, I'm a long time plasma fan. I've recommended and setup many for friends and family and never ran into any of the issues I did with the vizio. There is really only one negative term used to describe plasma faults: IR . With lcds there are many more things to worry about. I'm sad plasmas are going away.

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post #4608 of 5921 Old 07-20-2014, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by iceblast View Post
I think you call that blooming. If you have Active LED Zone On, then you'll see this issue, if you have it Off, not so much. Blooming is rare with Active LED Zones Off in my experience, and most LED tv's will have some blooming during credits, and personally I could careless if it happens there or not. I would drop this into the nitpicker area. But you want what you want. Go with what makes you happy. I think for most people, credits aren't that important, and blooming isn't even that big a deal in Active LED Zones.
Agreed. For the most part the only blooming I saw was graphical in nature such as white end credits against a black blackground that audiophizile described. The payoff is near perfect screen uniformity, jet black top and bottom side bars, not quite as black but uniform side bars and most importantly better contrast with moving pictures in most instances. By far the best LCD I've seen in that aspect of picture quality.

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post #4609 of 5921 Old 07-20-2014, 09:55 PM
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moved to appropriate thread

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post #4610 of 5921 Old 07-20-2014, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Audiophizile View Post
I agree. That is why I put it last in my initial comments of the tv. Was just another thing I noticed that I didn't like. That was by no means the deal breaker. More like a decorative flower on the "return me" cake.
I can understand being put off by DSE, but I really can't understand why someone would pay $500 more for a TV with better color 'out of the box' when a good calibration will cost you $350. And as for the blooming issue, there is a fairly simple explanation as to why it's less severe on an H7150, and that's because the samsung's black levels don't go nearly as deep (.022 cd/m2 according to ratings.com vs. .001 cd/m2 on the vizio m according to soundsandvision.com, heck you could even turn off the active zones and still get .010 cd/m2 with no blooming!).

Don't mean to knock your purchase by any means, but as for me I'm looking forward to saving some money and giving some hard working calibrator a piece of the savings too.
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post #4611 of 5921 Old 07-21-2014, 12:10 AM
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I can understand being put off by DSE, but I really can't understand why someone would pay $500 more for a TV with better color 'out of the box' when a good calibration will cost you $350. And as for the blooming issue, there is a fairly simple explanation as to why it's less severe on an H7150, and that's because the samsung's black levels don't go nearly as deep (.022 cd/m2 according to ratings.com vs. .001 cd/m2 on the vizio m according to soundsandvision.com, heck you could even turn off the active zones and still get .010 cd/m2 with no blooming!).

Don't mean to knock your purchase by any means, but as for me I'm looking forward to saving some money and giving some hard working calibrator a piece of the savings too.
Please use the same source when comparing numbers. Until they are both reviewed by the same source we won't know for sure though I bet the vizios are slightly better. I spent $400 more on the 7150. If the calibration could fix the terrible neutral tones and dse then awesome! I wasn't going to take the chance and be out the $350 with a tv I could be unhappy with. If a calibration does fix those issues please share the settings as I'm not the first person to comment on the color issues and I'm sure it'd be appreciated!
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post #4612 of 5921 Old 07-21-2014, 07:53 AM
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If a calibration does fix those issues please share the settings as I'm not the first person to comment on the color issues and I'm sure it'd be appreciated!
Actually, don't. Because as soon as you do, people will plug them into their TV and expect perfect color, and when panel discrepancies result in WORSE color, they'll blame the set.

This is the bad advice that just won't die...
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Actually, don't. Because as soon as you do, people will plug them into their TV and expect perfect color, and when panel discrepancies result in WORSE color, they'll blame the set.

This is the bad advice that just won't die...
Panel discrepancies are bad enough to do that? Has this always been the case or something new?
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Looks like Vizio is adding the P series to their website. They haven't finished so I can't click on the P series link yet.
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post #4615 of 5921 Old 07-21-2014, 08:05 AM
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Panel discrepancies are bad enough to do that? Has this always been the case or something new?
We have compounding factors here; there's enough manufacturing tolerance and variance in panels that identical models with identical components can require different calibration values. These could be minor or significant, and can vary over the life of the set.

What makes this worse is "panel lottery" or models where panel manufacturers differ. So, while it's conceivable that another person's settings for an identical model may work alright, there's a good chance they'll be moderately to significantly off. For different models, there's almost no chance they'll be any more helpful than guessing the values yourself.

If you care about dead-on color, get a meter or pay for calibration.
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post #4616 of 5921 Old 07-21-2014, 08:07 AM
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Looks like Vizio is adding the P series to their website. They haven't finished so I can't click on the P series link yet.
The Vizio site is "down" for maintenance - Apple does this sometimes when they are adding items to the catalog or re-tooling (though sometimes it's just maintenance). Did you catch something pointing to the P series specifically? Looks like they're just advertising a site redesign.
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I hadn't considered the fact that the only way to get audio out of the smart TV apps is via ARC or optical S/PDIF. Both are limited to basic Dolby 5.1 and basic DTS 5.1; you can't get Netflix's (or VUDU's or M-GO's, etc) DD+ out which could mean that you're stuck with stereo. I hope that it can convert.

What are owners' experience with this? Are you getting 5.1 out of Netflix?
I get Netflix's DD+ 5.1 out of the optical connector on both my E601i-B3 in the living room and my E550i-B2 in the master bedroom. Hope this helps.
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post #4618 of 5921 Old 07-21-2014, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jpdyson View Post
We have compounding factors here; there's enough manufacturing tolerance and variance in panels that identical models with identical components can require different calibration values. These could be minor or significant, and can vary over the life of the set.

What makes this worse is "panel lottery" or models where panel manufacturers differ. So, while it's conceivable that another person's settings for an identical model may work alright, there's a good chance they'll be moderately to significantly off. For different models, there's almost no chance they'll be any more helpful than guessing the values yourself.

If you care about dead-on color, get a meter or pay for calibration.
Makes sense. I've tried various other user setting on my 7150 which I know there are 2 different panels. Some were not even close. I was unsure if this was because of the users poor calibration or what. Thanks for the info!
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post #4619 of 5921 Old 07-21-2014, 08:30 AM
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The Vizio site is "down" for maintenance - Apple does this sometimes when they are adding items to the catalog or re-tooling (though sometimes it's just maintenance). Did you catch something pointing to the P series specifically? Looks like they're just advertising a site redesign.
Wasn't fast enough to do a screen capture. When I selected tv The E, M and P series had sub product tabs. Before you could only select either all tv or M or E series.
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post #4620 of 5921 Old 07-21-2014, 10:48 AM
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Looks like the vizio page is back up. I didn't see anything about the P series.
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