2014 Vizio Thread All models - Page 174 - AVS Forum
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post #5191 of 5936 Old 08-28-2014, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post
I think you are being far too optimistic on the availability and pricing of the R series. The holiday shopping/black friday season is for the E-series, maybe the M-series. The person who is buying the R-series is not waiting for a sale or a deal, it is not the market.

The big question is whether Vizio is offer the 65" Reference Series only through new premium channels like Magnolia/Best Buy or also through their mainstream channels like Costco.

The 80M Series cost $4000 and is offered through Costco, so Costco also offering the 65" Series is not out of the question.

If the 65" R Series is offered through Costco, the importance of Black Friday and the Holiday Shopping Season is clear.

In addition, Vizio product launch strategy this year has been well-conceived and well-executed. The fact that they have been using Product Series release events to update attendees as to the status of the R Series under embargo points to a surprise they have in store for us before the year is out. imagic's quiet confidence that the R Series will actually materialize this year says it all...

On pricing, I'm quite confident the 65" Reference will end up being priced somewhere between $3000 and $3500 - Vizio is very unlikely to confuse themselves with Sony or Panasonic this first time around the flagship/reference track. Samsung is the only competitor Vizio is worried about (other than the up-ad-coming Chinese brands they see in their rearview mirror :-), and Samsung's 65" Flagship, the UN65HU9000 is currently $4300 on Amazon and $2900 at ECTV.

Following the 'head-stuck-in-the-2013-sand' Sony 65X950B, the closest FALD competitor to the 65" Vizio R Series is the Toshiba 65L9400U which currently has a pre-release price of $3500 on Amazon and $3300 at ABT.

The 120" Reference is probably just for show and bragging rights only, but I suspect Vizio is introducing the 65" Reference Series to sell more TVs (read: take significant market share from the Samsung UN65HU9000).

Only a few more months now :-)
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post #5192 of 5936 Old 08-28-2014, 08:07 PM
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Not sure why people are worried about powering up their main system to watch tv. I have a large home theater system, and it only runs 45watts, which is nothing. I thought myself that it would draw a great deal more power, but doesn't take much at all.

I suppose if you have a rack full of boutique brand separates. I have a modest 5.1 system and I use it for everything. I can't get sound from anything without it, since I have everything switched through it, 8 devices, including this PC.

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post #5193 of 5936 Old 08-28-2014, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by iceblast View Post
Not sure why people are worried about powering up their main system to watch tv. I have a large home theater system, and it only runs 45watts, which is nothing. I thought myself that it would draw a great deal more power, but doesn't take much at all.

I suppose if you have a rack full of boutique brand separates. I have a modest 5.1 system and I use it for everything. I can't get sound from anything without it, since I have everything switched through it, 8 devices, including this PC.
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post #5194 of 5936 Old 08-28-2014, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by iceblast View Post
Not sure why people are worried about powering up their main system to watch tv. I have a large home theater system, and it only runs 45watts, which is nothing. I thought myself that it would draw a great deal more power, but doesn't take much at all.

Who's worrying? One member just said they'd use a soundbar in conjunction with their SS system for when they don't want to power up the SS. I totally understand this, sometimes you want more than TV sound but not "the full Monty". Not always about power draw either


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post #5195 of 5936 Old 08-28-2014, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Who's worrying? One member just said they'd use a soundbar in conjunction with their SS system for when they don't want to power up the SS. I totally understand this, sometimes you want more than TV sound but not "the full Monty". Not always about power draw either


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Well, I guess I'm different then. There is no point to having a nice system, if you don't give it a chance to improve what your watching. There are plenty of tv shows, that have good sound effects, and great music. Sometimes I'm amazed at just how good the sound is, and you would miss out on it, if all you ran was tv speakers.

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post #5196 of 5936 Old 08-28-2014, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by iceblast View Post
Well, I guess I'm different then. There is no point to having a nice system, if you don't give it a chance to improve what your watching. There are plenty of tv shows, that have good sound effects, and great music. Sometimes I'm amazed at just how good the sound is, and you would miss out on it, if all you ran was tv speakers.

Sighhhhhh why is there no point? The member may use the SS for 95-98% of watching. Of course there are benefits to using the SS that's why they have one already and use it. There are also turns when they may not feel like powering on the full system and this the SB is what they would use. I really don't see the big deal *shrug*


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post #5197 of 5936 Old 08-28-2014, 10:38 PM
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Sighhhhhh why is there no point? The member may use the SS for 95-98% of watching. Of course there are benefits to using the SS that's why they have one already and use it. There are also turns when they may not feel like powering on the full system and this the SB is what they would use. I really don't see the big deal *shrug*


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post #5198 of 5936 Old 08-29-2014, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post
a 65 inch monitor seems fairly ridiculous for a monitor, but what do I know. Why not just get the P series for a monitor? Surely that is more than good enough.
My computer doubles as a HTPC. I do work all day, then roll away the office chair and lay on the bed to watch movies at night. The P-Series is definitely a good option, but I want to get the widest gamut and contrast possible as I do quite a bit of media related work being a professional designer and photographer. I would get a really good 4K monitor, but none of them are large enough to double as a television.

My current monitor is a 42" television that I've been using since 2007 that's gotten rather long in the tooth, but has been a trooper! The screen looks washed out in this image due to the brightness difference as compared to ambient, but it has been a very accurate (calibrated) display:
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post #5199 of 5936 Old 08-30-2014, 07:42 AM
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http://www.vizio.com/tvs/pseries.html


Two different 50" models for sale!?!?!? Was not expecting this....

The P502ui-B1E sure is different in specs compared to the P502ui-B1 model..
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post #5200 of 5936 Old 08-30-2014, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by kleenex View Post
http://www.vizio.com/tvs/pseries.html




Two different 50" models for sale!?!?!? Was not expecting this....

The P502ui-B1E sure is different in specs compared to the P502ui-B1 model..
This has been discussed a little. See this.

The alternate model has 120Hz versus 240Hz refresh and 8-bit versus 10-bit color (16.7M versus 1.07B colors). One theory is that it's a budget model for big box stores like Sam's Club or Costco.

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post #5201 of 5936 Old 08-30-2014, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
This has been discussed a little. See this.

The alternate model has 120Hz versus 240Hz refresh and 8-bit versus 10-bit color (16.7M versus 1.07B colors). One theory is that it's a budget model for box stores like Sam's Club or Costco.
Sounds like a good theory to me. I now suspect the 50" M series is also a budget model for the wholesale retailers.

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post #5202 of 5936 Old 08-30-2014, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
The big question is whether Vizio is offer the 65" Reference Series only through new premium channels like Magnolia/Best Buy or also through their mainstream channels like Costco.

The 80M Series cost $4000 and is offered through Costco, so Costco also offering the 65" Series is not out of the question.

If the 65" R Series is offered through Costco, the importance of Black Friday and the Holiday Shopping Season is clear.

In addition, Vizio product launch strategy this year has been well-conceived and well-executed. The fact that they have been using Product Series release events to update attendees as to the status of the R Series under embargo points to a surprise they have in store for us before the year is out. imagic's quiet confidence that the R Series will actually materialize this year says it all...

On pricing, I'm quite confident the 65" Reference will end up being priced somewhere between $3000 and $3500 - Vizio is very unlikely to confuse themselves with Sony or Panasonic this first time around the flagship/reference track. Samsung is the only competitor Vizio is worried about (other than the up-ad-coming Chinese brands they see in their rearview mirror :-), and Samsung's 65" Flagship, the UN65HU9000 is currently $4300 on Amazon and $2900 at ECTV.

Following the 'head-stuck-in-the-2013-sand' Sony 65X950B, the closest FALD competitor to the 65" Vizio R Series is the Toshiba 65L9400U which currently has a pre-release price of $3500 on Amazon and $3300 at ABT.

The 120" Reference is probably just for show and bragging rights only, but I suspect Vizio is introducing the 65" Reference Series to sell more TVs (read: take significant market share from the Samsung UN65HU9000).

Only a few more months now :-)
That's quite a turn around for you from earlier in the year when you were critical of Vizio's launch strategy especially compared to Sharp.

As for the R series, since none of the LCD televisions at the 2014 HDTV shootout wowed the participants Vizio has a great opportunity to leave a footprint for having the best LCD television on the market. I see the P series being more of a competitor against the televisions you referenced. Also of concern to Vizio and other manufacturers is how aggressive LG will be with pricing on their OLEDs.

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post #5203 of 5936 Old 08-30-2014, 05:30 PM
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That's quite a turn around for you from earlier in the year when you were critical of Vizio's launch strategy especially compared to Sharp.

As for the R series, since none of the LCD televisions at the 2014 HDTV shootout wowed the participants Vizio has a great opportunity to leave a footprint for having the best LCD television on the market. I see the P series being more of a competitor against the televisions you referenced. Also of concern to Vizio and other manufacturers is how aggressive LG will be with pricing on their OLEDs.

Don't recall being especially critical. Sharp came out of the CES blocks with both barrels blazing and launched all of their new 2014 Q+ products within a month or so. Great execution by Sharp. I might have wished Vizio had been able to launch on a similar schedule but when it became clear that the would be releasing in waves, having generally been pretty positive about the way they have performed and also managed expectations and the press. 'Undercommit and overdeliver' seems to be Vizio's mantra and launch strategy this year and I believe it has been well-executed and served them well.


In terms of all three of the points you make in your last paragraph, I couldn't agree more (on all fronts :-)


I'm guessing that we're going to end up seeing the 65" Reference selling for about half the price of the 65" LG 4K OLED (which becomes an interesting decision :-)
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post #5204 of 5936 Old 08-31-2014, 05:53 PM
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60" Vizio

I'm looking to purchase a 60" TV for my living room and am trying to decide between the Vizio E600i-B3 and the M602i-B3. The E600i-B3 is available for $779 ($798-$20 prime @ Amazon or $829-$50 @ Costco). The M602i-B3 is approximately $1139. I'm trying to decide whether this M-series is worth the additional $360.

In reviewing the threads it seems the E60 is highly regarded. I however saw some recommendations to disable the active LED zones at least in the context of the E-Series. This has me wondering if the additional LED zones that the M-series provides is worth it. If we end up disabling it, obvious doesn't seem to add value. The true 120Hz refresh stands out as a primary difference, and may be worth it for that alone.

Is the M-Series 60" worth the $360 premium over the E-series?
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post #5205 of 5936 Old 08-31-2014, 06:20 PM
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I'm looking to purchase a 60" TV for my living room and am trying to decide between the Vizio E600i-B3 and the M602i-B3. The E600i-B3 is available for $779 ($798-$20 prime @ Amazon or $829-$50 @ Costco). The M602i-B3 is approximately $1139. I'm trying to decide whether this M-series is worth the additional $360.

In reviewing the threads it seems the E60 is highly regarded. I however saw some recommendations to disable the active LED zones at least in the context of the E-Series. This has me wondering if the additional LED zones that the M-series provides is worth it. If we end up disabling it, obvious doesn't seem to add value. The true 120Hz refresh stands out as a primary difference, and may be worth it for that alone.

Is the M-Series 60" worth the $360 premium over the E-series?

For some yes, for others no. It's hard to put a value on worth as everyone has their own view on what makes something "worth" the price. The rule of thumb is always get the biggest and best set you can afford.

The e series active LED seems to be flawed, the series does not see these same anomalies. The E series is a great value for the price, if you'll benefit from the additions the M series offers than go with the M series otherwise go with the E series. There are happy and unhappy owners/former owners of both.


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post #5206 of 5936 Old 08-31-2014, 08:56 PM
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I'm looking to purchase a 60" TV for my living room and am trying to decide between the Vizio E600i-B3 and the M602i-B3. The E600i-B3 is available for $779 ($798-$20 prime @ Amazon or $829-$50 @ Costco). The M602i-B3 is approximately $1139. I'm trying to decide whether this M-series is worth the additional $360.

In reviewing the threads it seems the E60 is highly regarded. I however saw some recommendations to disable the active LED zones at least in the context of the E-Series. This has me wondering if the additional LED zones that the M-series provides is worth it. If we end up disabling it, obvious doesn't seem to add value. The true 120Hz refresh stands out as a primary difference, and may be worth it for that alone.

Is the M-Series 60" worth the $360 premium over the E-series?
I would say that just for the faster native panel (120Hz versus 60Hz), the increased brightness, and the greater number of local dimming zones, yes.

The problem with active dimming is that visible/distracting bloom/halo is content specific. The M Series gives you a higher probability that local dimming can be activated on at least some content which should result in better blacks.

But it's a big premium - 46% - if you can swing the M, I'd go for it, but if budget is tight, the E is a great deal...
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post #5207 of 5936 Old 08-31-2014, 08:57 PM
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Having owned the E and now the M I would say yes, it is absolutely worth it.

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post #5209 of 5936 Old 08-31-2014, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by skyer View Post
I'm looking to purchase a 60" TV for my living room and am trying to decide between the Vizio E600i-B3 and the M602i-B3. The E600i-B3 is available for $779 ($798-$20 prime @ Amazon or $829-$50 @ Costco). The M602i-B3 is approximately $1139. I'm trying to decide whether this M-series is worth the additional $360.

In reviewing the threads it seems the E60 is highly regarded. I however saw some recommendations to disable the active LED zones at least in the context of the E-Series. This has me wondering if the additional LED zones that the M-series provides is worth it. If we end up disabling it, obvious doesn't seem to add value. The true 120Hz refresh stands out as a primary difference, and may be worth it for that alone.

Is the M-Series 60" worth the $360 premium over the E-series?
I've heard many times now, that the difference between the E and M series in PQ isn't that much. I own the E600i-b3, and I think it's a great tv for the money. The difference between 60hz and 120hz is pretty small when it comes to motion. Both handle motion about the same. Samsung does a great just with color, but you are going to pay a premium for it. Vizio has good whites and blacks by default, and the color is fine, just doesn't stand out quite as much as the Samsung. I just don't think there is a $360 worth of improvement between the E and the M. Spend the $360 on some speakers, or buy a second tv, or something. The P series will be out in a couple of weeks or so, could be a much better deal if you're looking for PQ.

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post #5210 of 5936 Old 09-01-2014, 11:17 AM
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iceblast, you seem to keep track of the 60 inch better than anyone else. Have you ever seen an input lag rating on the 60? I know you play games on it and have no issues, but with the panels on the E series being different I'd like to know a number if possible. I don't think anyone has ever posted about the 60 inch lag though.

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post #5211 of 5936 Old 09-01-2014, 01:36 PM
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Thumbs down Want a P-Series at 80" WITH 3D!

I want a P-Series at 80" WITH 3D -- Vizio is not making any though. 80" really seems to be the sweet spot, not that 70" isn't good.

The Reference Series is only at 65" & 120" -- what is Vizio thinking?
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I want a P-Series at 80" WITH 3D -- Vizio is not making any though. 80" really seems to be the sweet spot, not that 70" isn't good.

The Reference Series is only at 65" & 120" -- what is Vizio thinking?
That's the dilemma I'm in. Get an 80" edge lit 1080p 3D or wait for the 70" FALD 2160p?
Wish they were going to make it in an 80".
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Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post
I want a P-Series at 80" WITH 3D -- Vizio is not making any though. 80" really seems to be the sweet spot, not that 70" isn't good.

The Reference Series is only at 65" & 120" -- what is Vizio thinking?
That's the dilemma I'm in. Get an 80" edge lit 1080p 3D or wait for the 70" FALD 2160p?
Wish they were going to make it in an 80".
Me too. My plan (for now) is to wait for the first impressions and reviews of the P70 and get it if it's great. If the reviews are lackluster, I'll probably end up going with the 75" Samsung 8550 for a lot more money.
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post #5214 of 5936 Old 09-01-2014, 02:42 PM
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Thumbs down

Per the reviews, 4K is supposed to be way better for 3D, which is why I only want 3D on a 4K set...

Looks like Vizio is cheaping-out on ports on the P-Series, yet claims the "fastest ports". Yet they include just 1 HDMI 2.0 port for input only, rest are HDMI 1.4 (note the 30 hz label, which means they are also limited to 30 fps 4K):


Compare the specs to 1.4 here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4

Also USB 2.0 still instead of 3.0 or 3.1.


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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
That's the dilemma I'm in. Get an 80" edge lit 1080p 3D or wait for the 70" FALD 2160p?
Wish they were going to make it in an 80".

Last edited by libertyforall; 09-01-2014 at 02:49 PM.
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post #5215 of 5936 Old 09-01-2014, 02:49 PM
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4K is supposed to be way better for 3D, which is why I only want 3D on a 4K set...

Looks like Vizio is cheeping out on ports on the P-Series, yet claims the "fastest ports". 1 HDMI 2.0 port for input only, rest are 1.4 (note the 30hz label):


Compare the specs to 1.4 here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4

Also USB 2.0 still instead of 3.0 or 3.1.
To be honest there isnt really any 4k/60Hz source yet. also hdmi 1.4 supports 4k/30hz which is fine for movies and pictures. i dont see this as a big deal considering i believe all of the ports have HDCP 2.2, which most manufacturers have only put on one port. theyve all cut corners like most i wish 3D was thrown in for the hell of it but considering the only 3d full array set is the panasonic ax900, imo i would rather lose it and go for a possibly better set like The R series.
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post #5216 of 5936 Old 09-01-2014, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post
4K is supposed to be way better for 3D, which is why I only want 3D on a 4K set...

Looks like Vizio is cheeping out on ports on the P-Series, yet claims the "fastest ports". Yet they include just 1 HDMI 2.0 port for input only, rest are HDMI 1.4 (note the 30 hz label, which means they are also limited to 30 fps 4K):


Compare the specs to 1.4 here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4

Also USB 2.0 still instead of 3.0 or 3.1.

Please let us know the many devices that support 4k @60 that you'll need this for right away. Do you need multiple 4k@60 ports right now? You also act like this is some kind of revelation and that Vizio is trying to pull a "fast one". There will always be cuts made when you make a TV at the P series price point. I don't think anyone is kidding themselves.


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post #5217 of 5936 Old 09-01-2014, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post
Per the reviews, 4K is supposed to be way better for 3D, which is why I only want 3D on a 4K set...

Looks like Vizio is cheaping-out on ports on the P-Series, yet claims the "fastest ports". Yet they include just 1 HDMI 2.0 port for input only, rest are HDMI 1.4 (note the 30 hz label, which means they are also limited to 30 fps 4K):
In the world of AVRs with HDMI switching, this does not bother me at all.
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post #5218 of 5936 Old 09-01-2014, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post
Per the reviews, 4K is supposed to be way better for 3D, which is why I only want 3D on a 4K set...

Looks like Vizio is cheaping-out on ports on the P-Series, yet claims the "fastest ports". Yet they include just 1 HDMI 2.0 port for input only, rest are HDMI 1.4 (note the 30 hz label, which means they are also limited to 30 fps 4K):


Compare the specs to 1.4 here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4

Also USB 2.0 still instead of 3.0 or 3.1.
The below link has an image lifted from the Amazon 70" P Series display. It shows HDMI 5 as being a 4K@60Hz input. In your image it's the yellow HDMI input in the upper right.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/A1QnnPvpakL.jpg

Click the link, then click again and it will zoom in to the area of concern.

This was also discussed in the P Series thread.


<edit> I see you were lamenting the fact that there's only 1 4K@60Hz capable input, not that there wasn't any at all.

Last edited by Keenan; 09-01-2014 at 03:03 PM.
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post #5219 of 5936 Old 09-01-2014, 03:01 PM
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Well as many of you know, 60 hz 4K is not the ONLY benefit to HDMI 2.0...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_comparison

Last edited by libertyforall; 09-01-2014 at 03:05 PM.
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post #5220 of 5936 Old 09-01-2014, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post
In the world of AVRs with HDMI switching, this does not bother me at all.

Precisely. I've only ever used one of the HDMI inputs on my television in the 7 years that I've owned it and currently have 8 HDMI devices switched to it through an AVR+HDMI switch
(Roku 3, WD TV Live, TiVo Roamio, Panasonic DMP-BDT220, Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS3 and this PC).

My problem with the HDMI ports on the P-Series is that only one of them supports ARC, so that's the one that I'm going to connect my AVR's HDMI output to, so that I can get digital surround sound from its smart TV streaming apps (I suppose that I could run optical S/PDIF to the AVR, as I run coax S/PDIF from my current TV for watching its tuner, which I never do, but it would be inelegant). Of course, I don't have an HDMI 2.0 source at this time, nor can my AVR switch such, so the HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 port is more future-proofing than anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post
Well as many of you know, 60 hz 4K is not the ONLY benefit to HDMI 2.0...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_comparison

The other "benefits" are:

  • Rec. 2020 color space support
  • YCbCr 4:2:0 support
  • 32 channel audio support
  • 1536 kHz audio support
  • 4 audio streams support
  • 2 video streams support (Dual View)
  • 21:9 aspect ratio support

I cannot foresee an personal use for any of it.
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