2014 Vizio Thread All models - Page 178 - AVS Forum
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post #5311 of 5936 Old 09-05-2014, 06:14 PM
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P-series, sorry.
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post #5312 of 5936 Old 09-05-2014, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 4kjosh View Post
The 55"-70" models are now up at Best Buy site.

Can't paste link, since I'm too new.

That was reported in this thread yesterday, here. You should have done a thread search for "best buy" before posting (control on the far right, top of the posts).

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post #5313 of 5936 Old 09-05-2014, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Can you identify those manufacturers? And match them to the model numbers?
B2 is AU Optronics, B3 is Sharp. Don't know who B1 is.

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post #5314 of 5936 Old 09-05-2014, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post
B2 is AU Optronics, B3 is Sharp. Don't know who B1 is.
Thanks.
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post #5315 of 5936 Old 09-05-2014, 09:32 PM
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Welcome to AVS 4kjosh.
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post #5316 of 5936 Old 09-05-2014, 10:53 PM
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So in addition to the full array local dimming, some of these sets have what Vizio calls active pixel tuning, or adjusting brightness at the pixel level. What does this actually mean, and what is a comparative feature by a competitor? Obviously any LCD display has different brightness at different pixels as dictated by program material frames, otherwise contrast levels would be 0. Some do it better than others. What is supposed to be different about active pixel tuning to the point that they advertise it as a feature?
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post #5317 of 5936 Old 09-05-2014, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Actually, according to Digitimes: "Vizio will launch Ultra HD LCD TVs in varying sizes, with 60-, 70- and 80-inch Ultra HD TV panels to be supplied by the 10G joint-venture factory of Foxconn and Sharp" so it is very likely that Foxconn is supplying the backlight for the 60" and 70" P-Series panels.


And from the same article: "55- and 65-inch models will come from AU Optronics" so the 55" and 65" P series (as well as the 65" R Series) could have backlights provided by AUO but more likely that the backlights will also be supplied by Foxconn (who is manufacturing the Reference Series for Vizio: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1392627358)
Trying to understand a bit more about panel manufacturers. So I'd like to pose a question:
If you were going to buy a 65" or 70" panel from Visio which would you choose, a Foxconn or AUO and why?
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post #5318 of 5936 Old 09-05-2014, 11:36 PM
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2014 Vizio Thread All models

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHELLWEGE View Post
Trying to understand a bit more about panel manufacturers. So I'd like to pose a question:

If you were going to buy a 65" or 70" panel from Visio which would you choose, a Foxconn or AUO and why?

Chose the size and price you can afford. Since no one owns any of these sets yet, this question has been posed much too early. Once owners get them home and we see more of what is different between them it will be easiest to say which one is preferred if any at all over another.

The 70 is a Sharp panel btw not Foxconn. The 10G plant (where the panels are made) is a joint venture by Sharp and Foxconn so both will have panels come out of it. These panels will often get rebranded.


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post #5319 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 12:44 AM
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My money is on AUO, considering how well the Sony ponies perform.
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post #5320 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Chose the size and price you can afford. Since no one owns any of these sets yet, this question has been posed much too early. Once owners get them home and we see more of what is different between them it will be easiest to say which one is preferred if any at all over another.

The 70 is a Sharp panel btw not Foxconn. The 10G plant (where the panels are made) is a joint venture by Sharp and Foxconn so both will have panels come out of it. These panels will often get rebranded.


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I believe the Foxconn reference was in regards to the full array lighting supplier. Since Sharp doesn't currently offer a full array (minus the 90" Aquos) or local dimming system they may be strictly supplying the screen.
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post #5321 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 09:52 AM
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For future P series owners.

4K blu-ray is now official. Specs will be finalized in the first half of 2015 according to the BDA. Below are the links to the news articles.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=14923

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...for-2015/17656
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post #5322 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jhck66 View Post
For future P series owners.

4K blu-ray is now official. Specs will be finalized in the first half of 2015 according to the BDA. Below are the links to the news articles.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=14923

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...for-2015/17656


You wont see players\media most likely till the end of 2015 (which is the current "target). I am sure they will try to accommodate as many current 4K sets as possible, but as always there may be some things that some of the current 4K sets won't be able to take advantage of. This of course is all if they keep the current target dates.
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post #5323 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
You wont see players\media most likely till the end of 2015 (which is the current "target). I am sure they will try to accommodate as many current 4K sets as possible, but as always there may be some things that some of the current 4K sets won't be able to take advantage of. This of course is all if they keep the current target dates.
Agreed. I'm hoping against hope that a local media player will someday materialize (in the distant future) for the 4K format. Given the state of current local media players it may just be a pipe dream.
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post #5324 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 11:13 AM
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since cea has updated the UHD spec, IMO i don't think theirs much to worry about with getting left behind. all UHD sets this year have the features required by CEA to stream(H.265) or play media locally (HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2). It seems they will keep using these standards and make sure your set is compatible. if not i am sure there will be devices offered to make your tv compliant. which i believe we will need new bluray players anyway, the biggest question is how much will they cost initially.
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post #5325 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHELLWEGE View Post
Trying to understand a bit more about panel manufacturers. So I'd like to pose a question:
If you were going to buy a 65" or 70" panel from Visio which would you choose, a Foxconn or AUO and why?

I'd wait to see early reports from owners of both panels. Also, it is not Foxconn or AUO, it is Sharp (60" and 70") or AUO (65"). Since the 65" Reference Series will be based on a 65" panel from AUO, I would suspect that panel would be a top performer, but since I would want the 70" panel if it does not have a visibly inferior picture quality, I will go for the 70" Sharp panel unless it is suffering from some deficiency.


If/when the 65" Reference Series materializes, I will likely be going for that, so the P Series will only be an option I consider if the R Series never materializes or is priced too high.
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post #5326 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
I'd wait to see early reports from owners of both panels. Also, it is not Foxconn or AUO, it is Sharp (60" and 70") or AUO (65"). Since the 65" Reference Series will be based on a 65" panel from AUO, I would suspect that panel would be a top performer, but since I would want the 70" panel if it does not have a visibly inferior picture quality, I will go for the 70" Sharp panel unless it is suffering from some deficiency.


If/when the 65" Reference Series materializes, I will likely be going for that, so the P Series will only be an option I consider if the R Series never materializes or is priced too high.
Do you think the Toshiba L9400u or ax900 would be a decent alternative if the Reference series is price to high etc?

I dislike how you can only by from panasonic so that set looks like it may be off my list unfortunately.
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post #5327 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
I'd wait to see early reports from owners of both panels. Also, it is not Foxconn or AUO, it is Sharp (60" and 70") or AUO (65"). Since the 65" Reference Series will be based on a 65" panel from AUO, I would suspect that panel would be a top performer, but since I would want the 70" panel if it does not have a visibly inferior picture quality, I will go for the 70" Sharp panel unless it is suffering from some deficiency.


If/when the 65" Reference Series materializes, I will likely be going for that, so the P Series will only be an option I consider if the R Series never materializes or is priced too high.
FARFD

I thought the 70" panel was from a JV between Foxconn and Sharp? Looks like I misread that.

For me, I'm getting the P series as a placeholder until the R series comes out. And will wait for the upcoming CES show to see when we're gonna have a flat OLED.
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post #5328 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Rf13 View Post
Do you think the Toshiba L9400u or ax900 would be a decent alternative if the Reference series is price to high etc?

I dislike how you can only by from panasonic so that set looks like it may be off my list unfortunately.
From what I have read on both, I think as long as the price is reasonable (~4K or under) the R series will trump both sets. The R series is scheduled to have 384 dimming zones which even tops the Sharp Elite (the "reference" by which most FALD sets are compared to within this class). The Panasonic I believe is supposed to have ~128, not sure on the Toshiba, but with their 1st FLAD release the number of zones was disappointing and less than the Japanese counterpart.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BHELLWEGE View Post
FARFD

I thought the 70" panel was from a JV between Foxconn and Sharp? Looks like I misread that.

For me, I'm getting the P series as a placeholder until the R series comes out. And will wait for the upcoming CES show to see when we're gonna have a flat OLED.
The plant (10G) is the "joint venture" not the panel
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post #5329 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
From what I have read on both, I think as long as the price is reasonable (~4K or under) the R series will trump both sets. The R series is scheduled to have 384 dimming zones which even tops the Sharp Elite (the "reference" by which most FALD sets are compared to within this class). The Panasonic I believe is supposed to have ~128, not sure on the Toshiba, but with their 1st FLAD release the number of zones was disappointing and less than the Japanese counterpart.




The plant (10G) is the "joint venture" not the panel
Like others I'm buying a p series as a place holder and waiting to see.
I think the toshiba has over 300 but no one knows for sure. I also believe while the ax900 has less zone, that they have been able to address blooming better than Sony's x950. I just have a feeling the panny will be exclusive and priced unrealistically. My fingers are crossed that the r series debuts with amazing pricing. The 9400 cam already be had for 2800
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post #5330 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Rf13 View Post
Like others I'm buying a p series as a place holder and waiting to see.
I think the toshiba has over 300 but no one knows for sure. I also believe while the ax900 has less zone, that they have been able to address blooming better than Sony's x950. I just have a feeling the panny will be exclusive and priced unrealistically. My fingers are crossed that the r series debuts with amazing pricing. The 9400 cam already be had for 2800
New to LCD tech. I am looking at purchasing the Sony 65X950B FALD . As I got a refund from Sony and I can only use it on the Sony store. What is blooming , clouding ect. so I know what to look out for. Peace Rob
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New to LCD tech. I am looking at purchasing the Sony 65X950B FALD . As I got a refund from Sony and I can only use it on the Sony store. What is blooming , clouding ect. so I know what to look out for. Peace Rob
This should get you started: Local Dimming Explained
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post #5332 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Rf13 View Post
Do you think the Toshiba L9400u or ax900 would be a decent alternative if the Reference series is price to high etc?

I dislike how you can only by from panasonic so that set looks like it may be off my list unfortunately.

The Toshiba L7400U was a disappointment (watered down version of Japanese equivalent) so I am not sure whether the 65L9400U will be up to the standards of i's Japanese cousin (Z9 or whatever) or will be watered down as well. Definitely worth keeping an eye out for first reviews and user reports. In term of PQ, here is my expectation of how these various panels will compare:


Panasonic AX900 may be the best of the low but is an unknown/wildcard and will probably be expensive (expecting higher than $4000 and possibly as high as the Sony X950B at $6250 street).

Vizio Reference Series may also be the best of the bunch and will hopefully be the best value in any case (expecting a price in the $3000-3500 range, but we'll have to wait and see).

Sony X950B reported to be in the same class as the Vizio R at CES but the smaller number of dimming zomes means the Vizio R should perform better and in any case, the X950B is very expensive ($6250 street).

Toshiba L9400U reported to be one step behind the Vizio R and Sony X950B at CES (and again, we don't know how the final US product will compare against than Japanese-based prototype) but the price is attractive at under $3000 street and there is a good chance that the L9400U will perform better than the Vizio P.

Vizio P should have decent performance with 64 dimming zones and the price is right at $2200 (65").
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post #5333 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BHELLWEGE View Post
FARFD

I thought the 70" panel was from a JV between Foxconn and Sharp? Looks like I misread that.

For me, I'm getting the P series as a placeholder until the R series comes out. And will wait for the upcoming CES show to see when we're gonna have a flat OLED.

Yes, the 60" and 70" panels are Sharp panels manufactured at a plant that Sharp co-owns with Foxconn.


And I agree, the Vizio P should make a fine placeholder while awaiting either the R or the 65EC9700...
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post #5334 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
The Toshiba L7400U was a disappointment (watered down version of Japanese equivalent) so I am not sure whether the 65L9400U will be up to the standards of i's Japanese cousin (Z9 or whatever) or will be watered down as well. Definitely worth keeping an eye out for first reviews and user reports. In term of PQ, here is my expectation of how these various panels will compare:


Panasonic AX900 may be the best of the low but is an unknown/wildcard and will probably be expensive (expecting higher than $4000 and possibly as high as the Sony X950B at $6250 street).

Vizio Reference Series may also be the best of the bunch and will hopefully be the best value in any case (expecting a price in the $3000-3500 range, but we'll have to wait and see).

Sony X950B reported to be in the same class as the Vizio R at CES but the smaller number of dimming zomes means the Vizio R should perform better and in any case, the X950B is very expensive ($6250 street).

Toshiba L9400U reported to be one step behind the Vizio R and Sony X950B at CES (and again, we don't know how the final US product will compare against than Japanese-based prototype) but the price is attractive at under $3000 street and there is a good chance that the L9400U will perform better than the Vizio P.

Vizio P should have decent performance with 64 dimming zones and the price is right at $2200 (65").
i definitely agree with your comparison i guess im just going to wait on the R series as far as my main set geos, but also i noticed Toshiba has have a 58" variant of the l9400u. im not sure if it has more zones than the p series or not but i found the 58L8400u for the same price as the 60" p series. im considering taking a chance on it.
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post #5335 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
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That was reported in this thread yesterday, here. You should have done a thread search for "best buy" before posting (control on the far right, top of the posts).
And of course you never made that mistake???????
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post #5336 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
So in addition to the full array local dimming, some of these sets have what Vizio calls active pixel tuning, or adjusting brightness at the pixel level. What does this actually mean, and what is a comparative feature by a competitor? Obviously any LCD display has different brightness at different pixels as dictated by program material frames, otherwise contrast levels would be 0. Some do it better than others. What is supposed to be different about active pixel tuning to the point that they advertise it as a feature?
The closest would be Samsung's micro dimming ultimate. It combines hardware based dimming as well per pixel tuning for enhanced contrast and deeper black level. The only major difference between them is one is edge (Samsung) and Vizio (FALD).
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post #5337 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 09:26 PM
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Ok, so the way I understand Samsung's micro dimming is that it actually scans and then adjusts the picture frame by frame as opposed to just varying the backlight intensity in certain areas. Similar to when you edit pictures and select "auto adjust levels" in terms of what it does to brightness and contrast. It aims to increase contrast and improve shadow detail.

Is this what Vizio's active pixel tuning strives to do? If so, I would have hoped to hear more positive comments about it in reviews of the M series, but it was never really touched upon, and the contrast of the M series has been measured to be virtually identical to that of the E series. On the Samsung F8000 series however, micro dimming ultimate is often mentioned in reviews and it is said to improve contrast level and perceived black level over similar Samsung sets without it.

Hmmm.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rf13 View Post
i definitely agree with your comparison i guess im just going to wait on the R series as far as my main set geos, but also i noticed Toshiba has have a 58" variant of the l9400u. im not sure if it has more zones than the p series or not but i found the 58L8400u for the same price as the 60" p series. im considering taking a chance on it.
I answered you on another thread, but in case you did not see it, the 58" Toshiba no longer has Local Dimming. I would rate them almost exactly like fafrd, with a few changes. Only going to concentrate on FALD 65" sizes with best guess on what they will go for shortly after release. Honestly though, if I had the money I would get the 65" LG 4K OLED.

Vizio R (384 zones) $3995
Panasonic AX900 (128 zones, 5x5 matrix) $3495
Sony x950 (rumor around 100 zones) $5995
Samsung (new model FALD 300 LEDs, no info on zones) ?
Toshiba L9400U (could be as low as 48 zones) $2495
Vizio P (64 zones) $1995
JVC DM65USR (32 zones) $1795

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20140...AMSUNG+300+LED
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post #5339 of 5936 Old 09-06-2014, 09:52 PM
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I answered you on another thread, but in case you did not see it, the 58" Toshiba no longer has Local Dimming. I would rate them almost exactly like fafrd, with a few changes. Only going to concentrate on FALD 65" sizes with best guess on what they will go for shortly after release. Honestly though, if I had the money I would get the 65" LG 4K OLED.

Vizio R (384 zones) $3995
Panasonic AX900 (128 zones, 5x5 matrix) $3495
Sony x950 (rumor around 100 zones) $5995
Samsung (new model FALD 300 LEDs, no info on zones) ?
Toshiba L9400U (could be as low as 48 zones) $2495
Vizio P (64 zones) $1995
JVC DM65USR (32 zones) $1795

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20140...AMSUNG+300+LED
At this point I'm not ready to touch oled maybe in a year or two. I also didn't know the ax9 had a price yet that's surprisingly low.
I think I'll just buy a P series and wait for the R to become available.
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2014 Vizio Thread All models

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Ok, so the way I understand Samsung's micro dimming is that it actually scans and then adjusts the picture frame by frame as opposed to just varying the backlight intensity in certain areas. Similar to when you edit pictures and select "auto adjust levels" in terms of what it does to brightness and contrast. It aims to increase contrast and improve shadow detail.



Is this what Vizio's active pixel tuning strives to do? If so, I would have hoped to hear more positive comments about it in reviews of the M series, but it was never really touched upon, and the contrast of the M series has been measured to be virtually identical to that of the E series. On the Samsung F8000 series however, micro dimming ultimate is often mentioned in reviews and it is said to improve contrast level and perceived black level over similar Samsung sets without it.



Hmmm.

The FALD affects the black level more the the APT. This is why you don't hear much about it. The software is just an enhancement to the FALD backlight.

The Samsung since it's edge lit will see a much bigger improvement via its software dimming than the Vizio would.
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