2014 Vizio Thread All models - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 02:05 PM
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I knew someone would post this, lol. Your point is valid but irrelevant. I said at least, meaning a $50k set doesnt change my assertion. Most people's budget for a TV isn't going above $3k or so, regardless of size. An 80" set would get there quicker, and I think that size is a better fit for the average home.

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Originally Posted by planetweckesser View Post

You have to be kidding. If this TV comes in somewhere around 50K it will be a miracle. Considering the prices of the LG and Samsung > 100" TV's that would be a bargain price (50K). Perhaps in another 2-3 years we will see sets that size (120") down in the 10-15K range when competition heats up.
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post #92 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jtl46 View Post

According to Digitimes

Foxconn Electronics and Wistron will be responsible for making the TVs, while panels will come from Sharp and AU Optronics (AUO).

The penetration rate for Ultra HD TVs is expected to reach 10% in 2014, with shipments expected to be around 20 million.


That explains the cheap price
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post #93 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Berak View Post

I wish they had an 80" reference model. The 120" will be at least $10k no doubt.

I would consider it amazing if the 120" is $10K. It;s competition from LG and Sony (which are slightly smaller but in 2.35 aspect ratio) are $70K and $150K respectively. That's list and not street, but still. Sony charges far more than $10K still for their 2013 pre-HDMI 2.0 84" 4K set.

That said, i agree it is lame that there is no middle ground between the relative tiny 65" and 120". I have 65" now and there's no reason to upgrade unless we're at least in the 80's.
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post #94 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 02:26 PM
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A chart with the three non-reference model series:

 

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post #95 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Citivas View Post

I would consider it amazing if the 120" is $10K. It;s competition from LG and Sony (which are slightly smaller but in 2.35 aspect ratio) are $70K and $150K respectively. That's list and not street, but still. Sony charges far more than $10K still for their 2013 pre-HDMI 2.0 84" 4K set.

That said, i agree it is lame that there is no middle ground between the relative tiny 65" and 120". I have 65" now and there's no reason to upgrade unless we're at least in the 80's.

I agree about the price on the 120 look at what the LG and Sony 84" 4K sets are going for now.

It is all relative - 7 years ago I bought Mitsubishi 73" DLP TV's for around 6K - I changed them out last year for Sharp 90" panels for the same price. I suspect it will take 3 - 5 years before 120" TV's get down to that price.
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post #96 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by goplutus View Post

A chart with the three non-reference model series:



You need to add a column for the 'R(eference) Series' (with a question mark for now).

By the way, in case anyone wants to speculate on where the MSRP for the 65" R Series will land, I created a poll (my own guess is about $3300):

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510618/speculation-on-premium-of-65-visio-r-eference-versus-p-remium

-fafrd
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post #97 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 03:12 PM
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Just read 3D will not be a feature on 2014 models? I just bought a 3D bluray player... Sure I don't use it very often, but if there was more content I would.
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post #98 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

If I was writing an article about Vizio's new TV's it would read like this:

"Vizio Drops One Gimmick (3D) in Favor of Another (4K)"

I would say at least there is 3D content out their that that people can actually watch. Even Netflix suports so it has to be good, right? You can surely tell the difference between a 3D video and a 2D video, can't you? A 1080p video and a 4K video, not so much...

YEP .... my thought exactly !!!

That's why I am not pulling the trigger on this years line-up .... they will get smart and do 4K WITH 3D come 2015 ... I'll wait for that.

Until then I will try to enjoy my 70" M-Series as long as I can.
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post #99 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 03:32 PM
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For the first time ever, I can say I'm actually considering buying a Vizio. Based on the specs and prices, the P series looks impressive - at least on paper.
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post #100 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J y E 4Ever View Post

No one is arguing the benefits of FALD or 4K.

There was ZERO reason to remove the 3D from their entire lineup.

It is not a gimmick for many families.

We get that it is not gimmick to everyone,but here is an idea.....don't get rid of your current 3D TV.
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post #101 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 03:53 PM
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Great job Vizio on dropping the 3d support... now please bring your television line to Canada. It's ridiculous that we can't buy your products here. The P series looks damned near perfect for a computer monitor. Thanks.
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post #102 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

It has nothing to do with the cost of 3D, it is simply the fact that the majority of consumers do not like, or do not care for, 3D tech.l

Absolutely INCORRECT!!!

It 100% had to do with cost and also as stated above the new panels and being able to merge all this new technology with 3D ..... They would not drop 3D because "Some Consumers Don't Care For It" rolleyes.gif

Guaranteed it will be back in 2015 when they have more time to integrate 3D tech with these new panels and the new 4K technology.

I myself am NOT happy about this move due to I love 3D when it;s a 3D movie ... I am a MASSIVE fan of rear-array LED and this new TV is Exactly what I have been waiting to see for the last few years but with 3D I will not be buying this year (and I for sure planned on it) ... I will get the 2015 line-up that has it all.
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post #103 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 04:14 PM
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A lot of people including me are / were not interested in 3D until I had a tv with it ( my M551D) now I wish my E701 had it. Watching a movie in 3D is great.
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post #104 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 04:17 PM
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Thank you, Vizio, for providing a low cost hold me over until OLED is ready. 4k local dimmer for under a grand msrp? OK
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post #105 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 04:24 PM
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Any ideas of a release time frame?
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post #106 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Shankenstein View Post

We get that it is not gimmick to everyone,but here is an idea.....don't get rid of your current 3D TV.

And do what move that TV to my bedroom (cause we all know the NEW TV is going in the living room) and have the family huddle up in bet to watch a 3D movie! rolleyes.gif

A New TV is normally the "Primary" television the family watches ... So what put two TV's side by side? LOL
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post #107 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by falconman515 View Post

Absolutely INCORRECT!!!

It 100% had to do with cost and also as stated above the new panels and being able to merge all this new technology with 3D ..... They would not drop 3D because "Some Consumers Don't Care For It" rolleyes.gif

Guaranteed it will be back in 2015 when they have more time to integrate 3D tech with these new panels and the new 4K technology.

I myself am NOT happy about this move due to I love 3D when it;s a 3D movie ... I am a MASSIVE fan of rear-array LED and this new TV is Exactly what I have been waiting to see for the last few years but with 3D I will not be buying this year (and I for sure planned on it) ... I will get the 2015 line-up that has it all.

Exactly.

Same here.
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post #108 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falconman515 View Post

Absolutely INCORRECT!!!

It 100% had to do with cost and also as stated above the new panels and being able to merge all this new technology with 3D ..... They would not drop 3D because "Some Consumers Don't Care For It" rolleyes.gif

Guaranteed it will be back in 2015 when they have more time to integrate 3D tech with these new panels and the new 4K technology.

I myself am NOT happy about this move due to I love 3D when it;s a 3D movie ... I am a MASSIVE fan of rear-array LED and this new TV is Exactly what I have been waiting to see for the last few years but with 3D I will not be buying this year (and I for sure planned on it) ... I will get the 2015 line-up that has it all.

Its not "some" consumers. It is "most". And yes, they would drop it because Vizio is all about getting consumers the best bang for buck they can, and if most consumers don't want 3D, why have them pay for it.
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post #109 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

Its not "some" consumers. It is "most". And yes, they would drop it because Vizio is all about getting consumers the best bang for buck they can, and if most consumers don't want 3D, why have them pay for it.

You keep citing this line about how they are all about giving consumers the best bang for their buck like you are a paid marketer for them (not saying you are, just saying I keep reading the same catch-phrase from you)…

It's kind of laughable to be making that claim when dealing with a 120" super high end TV that will cost probably in the mid-five figures. It may be true that if you take the entire US marketplace of TV buyers that "most" don't care about 3D, but that's different than the tiny subset of the market that would be considering these flagship TV's. You'll have to come up with some kind of data point to establish that the price insensitive early adopters who could plop down $30K or $50K or who knows what for a set -- heck let's just fantasize and say $10K even though that's not happening -- would like to trade a feature that might add$20 to a panel to have that savings passed on to them. Your buzz phrase may describe their bread-and-butter sets, but it doesn't explain the high end stuff.

The explanation others have made that you don't agree with is far more plausible -- that in the rush to totally re-engineer everything as they said "from the ground up" they had to limit their spec list to avoid ending up like the healthcare.gov site launch and they simply took 3D out to meet their launch. I agree with others that it will show back up next year for the flagship models. So those who want to early adopt this year will have to accept that they are buying rev 1 of the new gen product and will probably deal not just with the loss of 3D but almost inevitably various glitches with the way all the FALD is handled, etc.
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post #110 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas View Post

You keep citing this line about how they are all about giving consumers the best bang for their buck like you are a paid marketer for them (not saying you are, just saying I keep reading the same catch-phrase from you)…

It's kind of laughable to be making that claim when dealing with a 120" super high end TV that will cost probably in the mid-five figures. It may be true that if you take the entire US marketplace of TV buyers that "most" don't care about 3D, but that's different than the tiny subset of the market that would be considering these flagship TV's. You'll have to come up with some kind of data point to establish that the price insensitive early adopters who could plop down $30K or $50K or who knows what for a set -- heck let's just fantasize and say $10K even though that's not happening -- would like to trade a feature that might add$20 to a panel to have that savings passed on to them. Your buzz phrase may describe their bread-and-butter sets, but it doesn't explain the high end stuff.

The explanation others have made that you don't agree with is far more plausible -- that in the rush to totally re-engineer everything as they said "from the ground up" they had to limit their spec list to avoid ending up like the healthcare.gov site launch and they simply took 3D out to meet their launch. I agree with others that it will show back up next year for the flagship models. So those who want to early adopt this year will have to accept that they are buying rev 1 of the new gen product and will probably deal not just with the loss of 3D but almost inevitably various glitches with the way all the FALD is handled, etc.

Well said! I would imagine that it will return in 2015 maybe in a glasses free 4k iteration. Having 4k resolution and passing the reference series Dolby Vision down the next years P-series and glasses free would be amazing. The market has grown cold for 3D at the moment. If you walk into any major retailer you will no longer find 3D demo station like at the beginning of 2013. They have all been replaced with second screen,voice and facial recognition smart TV's. Best buy has the entire 3d accessory section down to a single 12" wide endcap with glasses and a popular blu-ray or two. The blu-ray section itself is seldom labeled the "3D" section and crammed in the new release area. I am sure that the hardware I software to do 3D is only $20,but the premium we pay is $100-$200 extra.
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post #111 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by falconman515 View Post

And do what move that TV to my bedroom (cause we all know the NEW TV is going in the living room) and have the family huddle up in bet to watch a 3D movie! rolleyes.gif

A New TV is normally the "Primary" television the family watches ... So what put two TV's side by side? LOL

Its funny that you say that. I did the very thing for 2 years since 3D makes my wife motion sick I needed setting TV's up side by side since our bedroom didn't have the space. The fact ofb the matter is the market is stale for 3D due to lack of general support. We that invested in the tech early on and promised it would be here to stay are feeling a little let down that we have been abandoned in a sense,but while I enjoyed passive 3D because it was there and glasses were always included I fooled around with. All told though I maybe watched a handful of hours just to demo to friends,so for me it won't be missed.
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post #112 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas View Post

You keep citing this line about how they are all about giving consumers the best bang for their buck like you are a paid marketer for them (not saying you are, just saying I keep reading the same catch-phrase from you)…

It's kind of laughable to be making that claim when dealing with a 120" super high end TV that will cost probably in the mid-five figures. It may be true that if you take the entire US marketplace of TV buyers that "most" don't care about 3D, but that's different than the tiny subset of the market that would be considering these flagship TV's. You'll have to come up with some kind of data point to establish that the price insensitive early adopters who could plop down $30K or $50K or who knows what for a set -- heck let's just fantasize and say $10K even though that's not happening -- would like to trade a feature that might add$20 to a panel to have that savings passed on to them. Your buzz phrase may describe their bread-and-butter sets, but it doesn't explain the high end stuff.

The explanation others have made that you don't agree with is far more plausible -- that in the rush to totally re-engineer everything as they said "from the ground up" they had to limit their spec list to avoid ending up like the healthcare.gov site launch and they simply took 3D out to meet their launch. I agree with others that it will show back up next year for the flagship models. So those who want to early adopt this year will have to accept that they are buying rev 1 of the new gen product and will probably deal not just with the loss of 3D but almost inevitably various glitches with the way all the FALD is handled, etc.

Obviously I do not work for Vizio. Never before have I even considered Vizio but I am tired of the edge-lit crap that is currently out there, and you can not deny that these are looking very good so far. If input lag is low, then I'm sold. I don't even care how much it costs, I just want a big screen (65" +) with input lag under 30ms.
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post #113 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

If input lag is low, then I'm sold. I don't even care how much it costs, I just want a big screen (65" +) with input lag under 30ms.

Sounds like a 65" 4K Vizio for you (assuming Vizio can deliver the PQ and low latency they have promised).

They have definitely made High Velocity Mode with very low latency for gaming one of the distinguishing features of the 4K models (P and R):

http://ces.vizio.com/p-series.html#skip

-fafrd
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post #114 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Sounds like a 65" 4K Vizio for you (assuming Vizio can deliver the PQ and low latency they have promised).

They have definitely made High Velocity Mode with very low latency for gaming one of the distinguishing features of the 4K models (P and R):

http://ces.vizio.com/p-series.html#skip

-fafrd

Yes, and that is what gives me hope. I want to be excited but at the same time don't want to get my hopes up and then be let down. Does anyone have any insight on to when the p-series will be available? I see the 2014 E-series is already at Bestbuy and Walmart.
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post #115 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

Yes, and that is what gives me hope. I want to be excited but at the same time don't want to get my hopes up and then be let down. Does anyone have any insight on to when the p-series will be available? I see the 2014 E-series is already at Bestbuy and Walmart.

I don't remember where I read but I saw a few articles hinting towards May or June more than likely around the same time as the reference series
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post #116 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by goplutus View Post

A chart with the three non-reference model series:



Thanks for this. How do we know if we're looking at the 2013 model or the 2014? For example, I've been very close to pulling the trigger on a 2013 model of the E420i-A0, just because I figured the the new models wouldn't be ready for a few months and I need a new tv now.

I've seen a few posts saying the 2014 E series are at Best Buy already - are they in store only? Because I only see the older 2013 ones on their website. Same goes for Amazon. They actually have the 2014 version of the E400i (though at a higher price than this document suggests), but they only have the 2013 version of the E420i.
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post #117 of 4485 Old 01-08-2014, 10:23 PM
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Thanks for this. How do we know if we're looking at the 2013 model or the 2014? For example, I've been very close to pulling the trigger on a 2013 model of the E420i-A0, just because I figured the the new models wouldn't be ready for a few months and I need a new tv now.

I've seen a few posts saying the 2014 E series are at Best Buy already - are they in store only? Because I only see the older 2013 ones on their website. Same goes for Amazon. They actually have the 2014 version of the E400i (though at a higher price than this document suggests), but they only have the 2013 version of the E420i.

I'd wait and make damn SURE you're getting a 2014 E-series. Mark Henninger (of AVS) just said that not only does the new full-array M-series offer a considerably better picture than the 2013 edge-lit M but in some ways the entry level E now outperforms the 2013 M as well!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510706/vizio-120-reference-series-uhdtv-at-ces-2014
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post #118 of 4485 Old 01-09-2014, 12:19 AM
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It appears there is a 85" 4K seiki model that will be selling for $8,000. Considering that, I would expect the 120" reference vizio to be closer to $25K. Link: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510732/seiki-pro-uhdtvs-at-ces-2014/0_40
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post #119 of 4485 Old 01-09-2014, 12:30 AM
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I doubt 3D is adding even $100 at retail at this point. It's almost certainly not adding $200. When I cite those figures, it means cost to implement is in the low 10s of dollars.

I also very much doubt it comes back next year, except perhaps in limited models. 3D is not at Redbox, not on iTunes, not on Vudu (at least from what I've seen), not a priority for Netflix (according to Netflix, which is focused on 4K). It's super popular with a couple % of homes that love it and has never been used on the vast majority of 3D-capable sets sold to date.

Vizio is willing to lose that small %age of customers to make millions more in gross margin. Period.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #120 of 4485 Old 01-09-2014, 01:23 AM
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I am guessing Vizio is waiting to fine tune passive 3D in 4k. HDMI 2.0 and 60fps are new technologies. If you absolutely have to have 3D in the living room, maybe wait a year or buy a different brand.

The 2014 line looks to have plenty of attractive features. Local dimming is ambitious in itself, especially when few competitors are doing it, and their prices on 4k sets are much lower than the current trend.
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Polk Audio Monitor70 Series Ii Floorstanding Loudspeaker , Panasonic Th 58px60u 58 Inch Plasma Hdtv , Vizio
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