2014 Vizio Thread All models - Page 94 - AVS Forum
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post #2791 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proyal View Post

Basically if i understand correctly on smaller sizes you may even get 5 dimming zones ? The blooming should be terrible right ?

From the Reviewed.com review of the Vizio E480i-B2 LED TV (6 Zones):

"The stellar picture quality owes a lot to the TV's full-array LED backlight. Unlike edgelit TVs, the E480i-B2 has LEDs behind the entire screen, not just around the borders. The results—combined with judicious local dimming—were very favorable. This isn't the brightest TV on the market, but it's certainly bright enough, even in the Calibrated Dark picture mode we used during testing. Black levels were very impressive for an LCD, too, as was the accuracy of all colors. Best of all? No blooming, a common problem associated with local dimming where the dim LEDs create halos of light around objects on screen."

When I asked Lee to clarify about no blooming:

"...and one big reason why there wasn't much blooming is that the local dimming simply isn't very "active." Differences in black level/peak brightness were surprisingly minimal with dimming enabled/disabled—enough to notice an increase in overall PQ, but not enough that individual zones being dimmed broke up the overall uniformity along the edges of the screen. 4:3 or letterboxed content logically should have suffered from blooming, but at lower backlight levels it simply wasn't perceptible.

I guess the main takeaway is that even with dimming disabled, the TV still looks really good. The overall affect is appreciable, but not intense."


I expect the M series with 32 zones to have a more aggressive dimming scheme since there are more zones and so forth with the P series.

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post #2792 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proyal View Post

16, 32, 64, 384 dimming zones for what sizes ?

For the maximum size in each series ? So more correctly it would be up to 16,32,64,384 dimming zones ?

Yes, but that's the language that Vizio uses in their PR: "up to 16 Active LED Zones" for the E-Series and "up to 32 Active LED Zones" for the M-Series. They do not use that language in their P-Series PR, stating "featuring a backlight that consists of 64 Active LED Zones". Likewise, the Reference Series PR just states "a powerful 800 nit bright backlight and 384 Active LED Zones".

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post #2793 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Yes, but that's the language that Vizio uses in their PR: "up to 16 Active LED Zones" for the E-Series and "up to 32 Active LED Zones" for the M-Series. They do not use that language in their P-Series PR, stating "featuring a backlight that consists of 64 Active LED Zones". Likewise, the Reference Series PR just states "a powerful 800 nit bright backlight and 384 Active LED Zones".

I concur, all the P series models will have 64 zones and M series models 49" and larger (per Scott Wilkinson) will likely have 32 zones.

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post #2794 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 11:34 AM
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Do you guys think the non-smart M series will be able to dish 27ms of input lag like the E series?

FULL ARRAY >

Vizio E (Non-Smart) 50" - 28ms of lag
Vizio M (Non-Smart) 49" - ?
Toshiba 7400 55" - ?

It has come down to these 3 1080p FALD LED's. The downside? The 49" Vizio M isn't available yet and nobody knows if it's rocking one of those inferior panels like the '48" E series for ex.
Hopefully we'll have Leo B input lag measurements on the Toshiba pretty soon!
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post #2795 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 11:41 AM
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I have the M652i-B2 in my cart on Amazon and it is now showing a ship date of June 6 between 8am-11am..... YES!!!

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post #2796 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Do you guys think the non-smart M series will be able to dish 27ms of input lag like the E series?

What non-smart M-Series models would those be? All M-Series models are smart TVs.

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post #2797 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Oakley View Post

I know this has been explained before but I can't find it. Can someone please explain Vizio's model numbering and how it relates to model year? I don't get it....

Thank you.
Scott

Would someone please respond to this?

Thank you.

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post #2798 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 12:17 PM
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A=2013 B=2014 this has been answered more than once in the past few pages.


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post #2799 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Oakley View Post

Would someone please respond to this?

Thank you.

This link has a chart for the E series but you can infer from that the naming scheme of the P and M series also

The "B" designates the 2014 model year

The "i" designates it's a Smart TV

The first 2 digits designates the screen size and this is important, the number after that designates whether it's (1) edge-lit or (0) full array

Example: E550i-B2

This is a E series, 55 inches, Full Array, Smart, 2014

The number after the B is a bit of a mystery but all the B2 models would be grouped into one manual.

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post #2800 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

What non-smart M-Series models would those be? All M-Series models are smart TVs.

If all of the M series are smart TV's than they will most likely be boasting 42ms(terrible input lag imo) like the 'Smart' E series. Where as the Non-Smart E series have been tested with having 27ms of lag.
if the 42ms applies to the Smart M series, than count me out. :P I have a big feeling that i'm just going to end up with the Toshiba L7400. No need to plop down to the states to get one since i can order one online(B&H ships to canada) for ze' grand total including shipping of about $1,350. tongue.gif
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post #2801 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

All E-Series models from 50" on up are "i".

Then I'd have to go for the 48".....But doesn't the 48" have an inferior panel vs the 50"?
Wow what a complete load of sh**. Gamers are screwed and extremely limited once again. Oh look, i can't go past 49" because all of the larger sized models are 'smart'(i) tv's which are pushing almost 3(42ms....) lousy frames of freaking lag.
So it limits you to having to find a non smart TV, getting NO smart features(for those that care, i don't) and you are limited to 48" or below in size. Now I'm hearing that the 48"'s panel is cheap compared to the rest. WTF? Some people are actually fine with 42ms, based on my my numerous HDTV adventures it's been terrible for me(One of my older LCD TV's did 46ms via HDMI and 16ms via component)..... Even 32ms is disappointing, like it was on my S30(Using HDMI, component gives you 16ms) and the 34ms from my S60. Playable, sure, but platformers feeling heavier, a little clunky and don't have that zippity 'on the dime' quickness and lightness factor that they do on a LAG free CRT SDTV. My sets input lag numbers measured from 16, 32, 34, 46, and over 50(LG plasma, go figure).....

The M series are All Smart TV's as well....No thanks, again if input lag from the Smart E series translates to the Smart M series..... I truly hope the Toshiba L7400 delivers the goods....

Looks like it's either the Toshiba 55" L7400....or the Vizio 48" E series for me as a last resort.
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post #2802 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Yes, but that's the language that Vizio uses in their PR: "up to 16 Active LED Zones" for the E-Series and "up to 32 Active LED Zones" for the M-Series. They do not use that language in their P-Series PR, stating "featuring a backlight that consists of 64 Active LED Zones". Likewise, the Reference Series PR just states "a powerful 800 nit bright backlight and 384 Active LED Zones".
That's not quite right. Supposedly the 70" E series has 18 zones. link
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post #2803 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Then I'd have to go for the 48".....But doesn't the 48" have an inferior panel vs the 50"?
Wow what a complete load of sh**. Gamers are screwed and extremely limited once again. Oh look, i can't go past 49" because all of the larger sized models are 'smart'(i) tv's which are pushing almost 3(42ms....) lousy frames of freaking lag.
So it limits you to having to find a non smart TV, getting NO smart features(for those that care, i don't) and you are limited to 48" or below in size. Now I'm hearing that the 48"'s panel is cheap compared to the rest. WTF? Some people are actually fine with 42ms, based on my my numerous HDTV adventures it's been terrible for me(One of my older LCD TV's did 46ms via HDMI and 16ms via component)..... Even 32ms is disappointing, like it was on my S30(Using HDMI, component gives you 16ms) and the 34ms from my S60. Playable, sure, but platformers feeling heavier, a little clunky and don't have that zippity 'on the dime' quickness and lightness factor that they do on a LAG free CRT SDTV. My sets input lag numbers measured from 16, 32, 34, 46, and over 50(LG plasma, go figure).....

The M series are All Smart TV's as well....No thanks, again if input lag from the Smart E series translates to the Smart M series..... I truly hope the Toshiba L7400 delivers the goods....

Looks like it's either the Toshiba 55" L7400....or the Vizio 48" E series for me as a last resort.

The vizio P and R series, as well as the new toshiba 4k, are supposed to have an extremely fast game mode. It is not clear as to whether it has to be with a 4k signal, or if a 1080p signal will still work for this feature though.
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post #2804 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

The vizio P and R series, as well as the new toshiba 4k, are supposed to have an extremely fast game mode. It is not clear as to whether it has to be with a 4k signal, or if a 1080p signal will still work for this feature though.

The problem is, the P series won't be arriving until Fall and i can't wait that long. There's no way, and who knows how 720p and 1080p content will look on it being upscaled to 4k and all. Based on what's currently available, my money is on the Toshiba L7400..... fingers crossed for a glowing review and low input lag. :cool:Didn't the japanese model pull off 10-18ms of input lag?
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post #2805 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 02:33 PM
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The Toshiba L7400 has been bandied about here as perhaps a better alternative to the 2014 M series.

The L7400 is almost a 1/2 inch thicker than the 2014 55" M series which may suggest its full array backlighting is not as full as Vizio's full array backlighting. Also, it's unclear what kind of dimming scheme is employed on the Toshiba.

But it supposedly has a high grade panel with a native 120 Hz refresh rate. Historically (well recent history anyway) Toshiba has been a 3rd tier TV manufacturer and the 50L1400U had a really poor review so I'm a little skeptical.

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post #2806 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

The Toshiba L7400 has been bandied about here as perhaps a better alternative to the 2014 M series.

The L7400 is almost a 1/2 inch thicker than the 2014 55" M series which may suggest its full array backlighting is not as full as Vizio's full array backlighting. Also, it's unclear what kind of dimming scheme is employed on the Toshiba.

But it supposedly has a high grade panel with a native 120 Hz refresh rate. Historically (well recent history anyway) Toshiba has been a 3rd tier TV manufacturer and the 50L1400U had a really poor review so I'm a little skeptical.

That's the thing, you never see any high praise or solid reviews coming from Toshiba displays. Perhaps they've upped their game? I don't know, i too am a little skeptical. I can always just fall back on the Vizio (non-smart) 48" E if the L7400 turns out to be disappointing.
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post #2807 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

The Toshiba L7400 has been bandied about here as perhaps a better alternative to the 2014 M series.

The L7400 is almost a 1/2 inch thicker than the 2014 55" M series which may suggest its full array backlighting is not as full as Vizio's full array backlighting.

I'm sorry, but what suggests that to you? Vizio's last year's edge-lit panels were thinner than this year's direct-lit ones. Why would more LEDs lead to a thinner panel?

Also, where do you see the L7400U's depth w/o stand listed? EDIT: Nevermind--I found it on the product's page at Toshiba's site. Interesting that it weighs half a pound less than the M552i-B2 as well.

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post #2808 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

The problem is, the P series won't be arriving until Fall and i can't wait that long. There's no way, and who knows how 720p and 1080p content will look on it being upscaled to 4k and all. Based on what's currently available, my money is on the Toshiba L7400..... fingers crossed for a glowing review and low input lag. :cool:Didn't the japanese model pull off 10-18ms of input lag?

If you see input lag numbers that were not taken using an LB input lag tester, you can basically double that to get the real input lag. So far, Toshiba is just doing 'ok' on their 2014 sets as far as input lag is concerned. My guess is the l7400u has more input due to it having more features.
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post #2809 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

If you see input lag numbers that were not taken using an LB input lag tester, you can basically double that to get the real input lag. So far, Toshiba is just doing 'ok' on their 2014 sets as far as input lag is concerned. My guess is the l7400u has more input due to it having more features.


With the LB testing method, the Non-smart 48" & smaller E series got 27ms, where as the smart displays scored 42ms. At least, going by what one user mentioned in this thread.

The 48" seems to have a different panel....with only 6 zones. It's my lucky day!tongue.gif
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post #2810 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

With the LB testing method, the Non-smart 48" & smaller E series got 27ms, where as the smart displays scored 42ms. At least, going by what one user mentioned in this thread.

The 48" seems to have a different panel....with only 6 zones. It's my lucky day!tongue.gif

Yes that was me who tested those.
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post #2811 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

Yes that was me who tested those.

doh! How could i forget a UFO. tongue.gif
I'm guessing CNET will wind up with the same results, in the year 2018 when they finally get themselves a Vizio E to review. lol
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post #2812 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

This link has a chart for the E series but you can infer from that the naming scheme of the P and M series also

The "B" designates the 2014 model year

The "i" designates it's a Smart TV

The first 2 digits designates the screen size and this is important, the number after that designates whether it's (1) edge-lit or (0) full array

Example: E550i-B2

This is a E series, 55 inches, Full Array, Smart, 2014

The number after the B is a bit of a mystery but all the B2 models would be grouped into one manual.

Wow, they really need to work on their numbering system......but thank you very much.
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post #2813 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I'm sorry, but what suggests that to you? Vizio's last year's edge-lit panels were thinner than this year's direct-lit ones. Why would more LEDs lead to a thinner panel?

Also, where do you see the L7400U's depth w/o stand listed? EDIT: Nevermind--I found it on the product's page at Toshiba's site. Interesting that it weighs half a pound less than the M552i-B2 as well.

Hey, no need to be sorry. Actually, I was surprised that the FA sets were only marginally thicker than last year's edge-lit models and I wondered why and this is what I came up with which makes sense to me.

"Direct-lit LED backlights are an offshoot of full-array backlighting, in that they use LEDs spread across the entire back panel of the TV. (The TV's spec page may just refer to these TVs as having a full-array backlight.) However, there are a few key differences compared to the more expensive full-array LED sets we've tested previously. One is that they use significantly fewer LEDs across the back of the panel. Another is that these sets lack the local dimming feature.

In addition, these TVs are much deeper than previous LED-backlit models, especially the ultra-thin edge LED sets. In fact, they more closely resemble LCD TVs with CCFL backlights. The reason: Because fewer LEDs are used, they have to be moved farther away from the screen to provide adequate light coverage across the panel, much the way the beam of a flashlight gets wider as you move it away from an object."

What is a direct-lit LED LCD TV?

Edit: I'm not saying this is the case, but it may be the case. The Toshiba is still quite a bit thinner than last year's direct-lit 55" E series (3.7").

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post #2814 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 03:55 PM
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Looks like Sam's Club has very little stock left of the 2013 M series. Hope that's a sign of more 2014's soon.
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post #2815 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 04:03 PM
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The L1400 is really a super basic set with 60Hz panel. Don't take that into account.

 

The dimming zones on vizio models are way too little and blooming is almost assured.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5De69nSQ80

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3HoXuo6K-U

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post #2816 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post


This link has a chart for the E series but you can infer from that the naming scheme of the P and M series also

The "B" designates the 2014 model year

The "i" designates it's a Smart TV

The first 2 digits designates the screen size and this is important, the number after that designates whether it's (1) edge-lit or (0) full array

Example: E550i-B2

This is a E series, 55 inches, Full Array, Smart, 2014

The number after the B is a bit of a mystery but all the B2 models would be grouped into one manual.


So what does the first "2" in Vizio M652i-B2 that's on Amazon mean? 32 zones maybe?


Cheers, Dave
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post #2817 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 04:12 PM
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Toshiba makes much ado about the L7400U's "Radiance Full Array LED panel incorporating Toshiba’s own SuperBright LEDs ... and Quantum Black™ Local Dimming". It would be nice if they'd speak in more plan language and tell us the number of dimming zones, as does Vizio.

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post #2818 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proyal View Post

The L1400 is really a super basic set with 60Hz panel. Don't take that into account.

The dimming zones on vizio models are way too little and blooming is almost assured.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5De69nSQ80
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3HoXuo6K-U

Maybe you should head over to the official 2014 M thread and take a look at whats been posted before you start throwing around baseless claims.
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post #2819 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

So what does the first "2" in Vizio M652i-B2 that's on Amazon mean? 32 zones maybe?

The third digit of all of the P-Series model numbers is also "2" and they supposedly feature 64 zones.

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post #2820 of 4486 Old 05-10-2014, 04:23 PM
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That's the thing, you never see any high praise or solid reviews coming from Toshiba displays. Perhaps they've upped their game? I don't know, i too am a little skeptical. I can always just fall back on the Vizio (non-smart) 48" E if the L7400 turns out to be disappointing.

Toshiba got most of its panels from LG last year. These new 58 and 65 are from AUO. Don't know if this 55" is still from LG or another supplier, but at the very least it is using Toshiba SuperBright LEDs in the back light unit so uniformity maybe better. If the 55" is an IPS panel it is most likely from LG Displays, like their edge-lit 84Z9X.
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