2014 Sharp AQUOS Line-Up - Page 112 - AVS Forum
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post #3331 of 3819 Old 06-21-2014, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
Did you order the Darblet yet?
lol.. not yet. I'll probably pick one up after 4th of July. Too many birthdays and work to be had where I won't even really be able to enjoy it for an extended period of time haha
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post #3332 of 3819 Old 06-21-2014, 03:19 PM
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mechman,

The reason the colours (especially green) were off and couldn't be brought in line is because user mode locks into the extended gamut.

Regarding the tint control, you can somewhat set that with the meter by taking readings at different tint settings and seeing what changes occur in Calman. I just use the blue filter and I am guessing the extended gamut was a factor as well in that tint number being so high.

Nice job doing the user run. The gamma value is too low showing that the default gamma preset of 0 is not good unless people want a slightly washed out image but I guess it'll be brighter so that is something more people care about than image richness. I am sure you know that though given your excellent movie calibration.

Nice to see what the UQ in low temp comes out to default and as figured, it's noticeably too blue. It may not be as bad as the SQ out of the box yet it's still too high if one wants a neutral looking image/greyscale.

I'd be very curious what johnfull's settings read so if you don't mind doing quick initial readings for that then we're (him included from what I gather) dying to know.

ROB

Last edited by rlindo; 06-21-2014 at 03:54 PM.
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post #3333 of 3819 Old 06-21-2014, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asanievas22 View Post
lol.. not yet. I'll probably pick one up after 4th of July. Too many birthdays and work to be had where I won't even really be able to enjoy it for an extended period of time haha
haha damn those tings getting in the way.

One thing I forgot to mention before when I was giving my feedback on it with the SQ is that you want to be sure your sharpness setting is at 0. It should be at 0 anyway with these TVs since anything adds ringing/edge enhancement but a 0 setting is required with the Darblet.

It really is amazing what that little device does to the image. Basically since I got it close to 2 years ago I've just had it in the set and forget mode with my projector so it was nice testing it on the SQ and remembering just what an improvement it brings since you don't realize that over time in set and forget as you just become used to the awesomeness.

ROB
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post #3334 of 3819 Old 06-21-2014, 05:47 PM
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Thanks, Mechman! I'll plug in your settings on Monday -- I won't have a chance on the weekend.
Anyone else who has been using my calibration should try it, too, and give your feedback.
I will post your settings on the page I set up for the UQ model after I check it out.
One person said my setting 'looked too real' for his wife, so we'll see what yours looks like.
That was on the User mode and I suggested she might be reacting to the Film Mode soap opera effect.
Can you try the User mode as well? I found fleshtones more pleasing there than with Standard after
I got the white level looking good to my eye. I think I settled on a warmer white there than on Standard.
Thanks for your efforts -- these are awesome TVs and we should work to get them doing their best...
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post #3335 of 3819 Old 06-21-2014, 10:13 PM
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A few newer SQ pics using the rlindo/johnfull combo, basically start with rlindo (2014 Sharp AQUOS Line-Up), and change:
Automatic Light Sensor = On
Backlight = -16
Contrast = +29
Brightness = +1
Motion Enhancement = AquoMotion240
Film Mode = Standard
Color Gamut Range = Expanded
Light Sensor Adjustment = +16/-11

I imagine these are not 100% accurate for what directors intended, and I will probably wind up changing them again shortly, but I figured I would pass them on.
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post #3336 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechman25 View Post
I had a chance to sit down last night with the meter and do a USER calibration.
I tried to stay with the direction you were going johnfull with auto lighting on and set to -11 to +16.
I also left gamma at o which gave an average gamma of 2.05
Color and tint were done with blue filter.
I have attached some pics of pre and post calibration.
I got the RGB colors even for the RGB balance but they were running a little high above the 0 line.
On the CMS side, green was so far out that I could not get rid of the error on green so I left the CMS values at 0 for all.
This is something that rlindo (I think)ran in to when trying to calibrate game mode.
So here are the numbers I came up with.


AV Mode User
Backlight Auto -11 to +16
Contrast +29
Brightness +2
Color 0
Tint +8
Sharpness 0
Resolution Enhanced Mode 1
Motion enhancement 120hz High
Clear picture processing Off
CMS All 0
Color Temp Low
LO
R -3
G +9
B -26
Hi
R -9
G -1
B -21
Active contrast Off
Gamma adj 0
Film mode Off
Digital noise reduction Off


I am going to try out these settings for a couple of days and see what they look like.
Is this what you were looking for johnfull?


Also for some of the other guys using a meter, is there a method to set color and tint using your meter instead of the blue filter?
I am tending to not believe the higher tint numbers I am getting using a blue filter.
Thanks again for doing a Standard setting with the meter, Mechman.
I found time (in the wee wee hours!) to do some comparisons and have one important question:
Do you account for the yellow pixel of the Quattron system in your calculations?
Being intermediary between red and green, the meter may pick it up as one or the other or both.
Depending on that, all the rest of the numbers would be off as well as calculations based on them.
I've read elsewhere that it is a problem for professional calibrators.

I tried the 2-Point temperature numbers and had my own 10-Point numbers to toggle back and
forth between. My screen, in monochrome, looks too blue, it is true! I could back off on the
blue somewhat to get closer to a neutral monochrome gradation, but turning on the color shows
my preferred white temperature against the colors of the rest of the screen.
Mechman's screen looks yellow/green in monochrome and with less contrast (Gamma).
When the color is switched on, this yellow/green cast throws the colors off and explains why he
needed to alter the global Tint value -- something I avoid like the plague for the sake of
color accuracy. I had found the same objectionable yellow/green cast on the Movie setting last
week and mentioned it. The yellow pixel has to be accounted for somehow to use a meter.

Has anyone googled 'Quattron calibration' to find out how to overcome this situation?

The blueness of my Standard screen was the reason I switched to the User mode very quickly.
I had arrived at the blueness by biasing the monochrome picture more and more to get the
fleshtones within the range of acceptability. The blue desaturates the yellow tendancy and
allows more overall Saturation without faces turning into lemons or tangerines.
In the User mode, there is a less aggressive Chroma algorithm at work and it took a lot less
bias to sweeten the fleshtones, resulting in a warmer white and a more colorful picture.
I still toggle back and forth between my User and my Standard setting and see advantages
for each on diffferent sources. Since USER allows each source to have a different input, the
STANDARD can be used for the web browser (for example) while USER is used for BluRay.

That's another drawback to the static calibration with a meter -- the interaction of the set's
internal logic with the input numbers is not seen in action. Each PICTURE QUALITY setting
takes your numbers and runs with them in a different direction. My very favorite one is the
THX MOVIE mode for color rendition. It reminds me of Kodachrome slides in the transparency
and smooth contour of color gradation. The unacceptable drawback is that the backlight stays
in a fixed setting -- either 'Dark Room' or 'Bright Room' -- a terrible waste of the sensor and
how it maintains brightness and contrast across conditions and content.

One clue about the yellow pixel comes from Sharp's description of the
advantages of Quattron, one of which is brighter white resulting from
2 pathways instead of one: RGB and BY. The blue/yellow white portion
seems to be unseen by the calibration equipment, but is instead seen as
an excess of blue alone and the resulting calculations are too yellow...
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Last edited by johnfull; 06-22-2014 at 02:07 AM.
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post #3337 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 05:40 AM
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Love love love,..nothing but LOVE for 4K. Very excited for the 3rd phase (1080i, 1080p, 4K ) of HDTV and all it has to offer for HT enthusiasts. Looks like 4K + Red ray will be like going from SD cable to satellite - laser disc to DVD all over again. Put on your seat belt I can tell it's going to be exhilarating.

Remember those precious moments in 1996 when you were just bewildered how clean & sharp watching movies on DVD were even though it's kinda gross compared to current 1080p picture today. It's funny, now 1080p & BD will be like SD cable & laser disc as 4K/Red ray rises to it's maturity.

And I believe deep down this time 4K is the final resting place, the plateau, pinnacle peak for PQ. It will reach the point of marginal return as there is really no where else can PQ get any better to the point where you can see a substantial improvement. I get that notion even now because the current LG LED I have now going on 2 yrs is the 1st time since 95 when big screen TV began it's rise, that I have absolutely zero desire to upgrade a new TV. Since 95 I just had to buy a new TV every 2 yrs because that was about the time the new models produced a better picture, sets getting thinner, and as C/R #'s rose every year.
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post #3338 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 07:01 AM
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johnfull,

As I have mentioned before, I really don't think you understand how the whole meter thing works. When it takes a reading there is no magic sauce that factors in after the fact that will skew the greyscale. Do you really think PROFESSIONAL calibrators would be spending all that money on meters and software if it didn't actually do what it was intended to do?

It's possible mechman's meter is off and the image is coming out with a yellow/green cast but it is more likely your brain is wrong on this (given it has been programmed to think a too blue white is correct in terms of display accuracy so an accurate white point and greyscale will look yellow) and the meter is not broken and is giving the correct reading. I mean come on...enough with acting like your eye trumps a meter and the implication that all pro calibrators have no idea what they are doing by using equipment and should just go by their eye.

Regarding these sets and their apparently magic yellow pixel that can somehow trump a meter that specifically takes the image on screen and compares it to a set white point value, these sets have been calibrated by trained calibrators in the reviews (cnet, reviewed.com) and NONE of them said "after calibration the image is too yellow"

These are people that have seen HUNDREDS of TVs and are ISF certified so if the image was too yellow after calibration don't you think they'd see it?

As for the difference in the preset modes, I'm pretty sure that comes down to different settings that may be default and locked rather than any internal differences. From what I saw the only difference with user is that the extended gamut is locked in. If user and standard had the same settings that could be changed then the image would look the same if everything else is equal.

As I have stated, go with what you want in terms of how your display looks and if people prefer that look (albeit as probably inaccurate as it is) then GREAT but quit acting like using actual equipment and software to set the display is somehow giving a wrong image and spreading misinformation. There is nothing special about these TVs that somehow trumps calibration equipment.

Regarding the auto light sensor, from Sharp themselves and what others have said elsewhere, all this does is adjust the backlight based on ambient lighting. It has zero to do with altering specific content. The only way it'd change based on content would be the ambient light the material is giving off into the room. I'd think this would be incredibly annoying if it is that sensitive to adjust as you could go from a bright scene in a movie to a dark scene and you'd see the backlight dim.

ROB
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post #3339 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 07:18 AM
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Regarding Quattrons and calibration -- just as a sample.

sharp quattron is it marketing gimmick? I think so



So my advice to all you folks who are saying "it's a gimmick," sight unseen is to wait until you see it to decide -- and THEN make sure you get to play with the menu to make sure it's not TWEAKED.
The problem with that statement is that these sets have proven to be difficult to calibrate, with an inaccurate color spectrum and poor gray scale. So Dr. Raymond Soneira's issues with the Sharp have proven to be true.

Quote:

The result is not fantastic. I did not take advantage of the full potential of the CMS system in LE820 but did perform a RGB calibration. I did manage to get gamma close to 2.2 and corrected the color temperature to our reference of 6500 Kelvin (almost). I also reduced brightness a lot.

Still, we see some color deviations and the reason is properly the Quattron technology. I examined the gamut in detail and saw that LE820 pushes yellow and green a bit too much giving more the bright yellow and green shades a more vivid expression than conventional TVs.

As you can see in the gamut in the left side of the graph above the actual gamut that a human eye can perceive (the whole color gamut) and the one that the monitor/TV actually reproduces is far from the same.
Today we use some pre-defined standards that tell us how colors should be reproduced. The gamut should be expanded a long time ago because both players and displays are capable of displaying more but it's tricky because almost all equipment and all content is reproduced in the standardized gamut.

So what about LE820? Color accuracy is actually quite good for most of the gamut but in the yellow and green outer point LE820 pushes the gamut beyond its limits. This means that green and yellow appear more intense/vivid than they should but also means that the color accuracy is not perfect - and the picture is not 100 % natural.
This applies mostly to the very saturated colors such as intense yellow, intense blue and intense green.


http://flatpanelshd.com/review.php?s...&id=1272005448

I've seen the Sharps in store and they look great but there's a difference between "looking great" and accuracy. The folks on this forum are after accuracy.
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post #3340 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
johnfull,

As I have mentioned before, I really don't think you understand how the whole meter thing works. When it takes a reading there is no magic sauce that factors in after the fact that will skew the greyscale. Do you really think PROFESSIONAL calibrators would be spending all that money on meters and software if it didn't actually do what it was intended to do?

It's possible mechman's meter is off and the image is coming out with a yellow/green cast but it is more likely your brain is wrong on this (given it has been programmed to think a too blue white is correct in terms of display accuracy so an accurate white point and greyscale will look yellow) and the meter is not broken and is giving the correct reading. I mean come on...enough with acting like your eye trumps a meter and the implication that all pro calibrators have no idea what they are doing by using equipment and should just go by their eye.

Regarding these sets and their apparently magic yellow pixel that can somehow trump a meter that specifically takes the image on screen and compares it to a set white point value, these sets have been calibrated by trained calibrators in the reviews (cnet, reviewed.com) and NONE of them said "after calibration the image is too yellow"

These are people that have seen HUNDREDS of TVs and are ISF certified so if the image was too yellow after calibration don't you think they'd see it?

As for the difference in the preset modes, I'm pretty sure that comes down to different settings that may be default and locked rather than any internal differences. From what I saw the only difference with user is that the extended gamut is locked in. If user and standard had the same settings that could be changed then the image would look the same if everything else is equal.

As I have stated, go with what you want in terms of how your display looks and if people prefer that look (albeit as probably inaccurate as it is) then GREAT but quit acting like using actual equipment and software to set the display is somehow giving a wrong image and spreading misinformation. There is nothing special about these TVs that somehow trumps calibration equipment.

Regarding the auto light sensor, from Sharp themselves and what others have said elsewhere, all this does is adjust the backlight based on ambient lighting. It has zero to do with altering specific content. The only way it'd change based on content would be the ambient light the material is giving off into the room. I'd think this would be incredibly annoying if it is that sensitive to adjust as you could go from a bright scene in a movie to a dark scene and you'd see the backlight dim.
Rob, I appreciate your evangelism on calibration -- I really do!
The testimony of others and of my own eyes has lead me to certain theories.
I've owned Quattron TVs for more than 2 years now and have entered into lots of debate.
Like anything, one can take a dogmatic view or one can observe and be pragmatic.
I posted an old discussion about the Quattron technology to show you what I already told
you here and privately; the system is outside the norm for RGB calibration.
I tried various methods of achieving accurate pictures and will continue to do so.
It seems easy enough for you to criticise, but you must admit that you have never seen
the results of my settings on a UQ set. I have asked Mechman to look at my settings and
perhaps he will. An honest critique by an actual observer goes far further than your
increasingly shrill attacks on my eyesight and/or sanity.
Plenty of folks have now posted to say that they think my settings are better than anything
they have tried. I would love to find some better because I know they aren't perfect.
So far, they are not forthcoming. I will work with Mechman to get to the bottom of the
RGBY riddle -- whether or not the yellow pixel is throwing off RGB sensors in his calculations.
I can't really work with you, Rob, not because you are attacking me but because you have a
different model to which my calculations do not apply. Would you buy a Quattron of your own?
I would buy another one in a heartbeat because I know that they can shine with some TLC.
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post #3341 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 07:57 AM
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What exactly is your point with posting that? All it does is further show me you really don't understand how calibrating with equipment is done. To go with greyscale you can calibrate colours with the CMS using a meter so if a colour is off you can adjust that if the CMS works well enough. What you posted has to do with yellow and green out of the box of a 3 year old TV and the person who wrote that said they didn't even use the CMS to try and help with out of the box issues. Again, the CMS is there for that stuff and Sharp has improved their gamut out of the box since then according to what I read meaning less CMS adjustments needed.

If the other point is to say the current standard isn't enough compared to human vision then great as I'm sure everyone would agree with that. I fail to see why that matters though seeing as material is produced using the same standard meaning any limitations will be in the source and you can't magically fix that. If a person doesn't give a crap about that then awesome for them (really, I couldn't care less how someone views their content) but one needs to quit using terms that reflect accuracy because it is not accurate as well as acting like an accurate display calibrated with equipment that is programmed to match the standard is wrong.

ROB
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post #3342 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley Seymour View Post
Thanks to AVManic and Rlindo for their SQ settings. Using Johnfull's settings specific for the UQ add another level of PQ. Watching the Belmont Stakes with the first settings gave a florescent glow to the infield. Watching the World Cup with the new settings is a treat. The night scenes of the beach have plenty of black to deal with but the faint outline of the mountain is visible. The set last night with Alexi Lawless slouching behind a rustic table had a 3D feel. I was able to overlook his Bill Walton impersonation and enjoy the color and depth of the image.
Yellow and green are still evident in faces though my wife claims she can't see the effect.
When first entered, Johnfull's settings seemed really off, dark and washed out. Intending to reset them, I returned from work to find my wife watching the World Cup. Noticing an improvement in the PQ I had to check if the previous settings were somehow reset. They were the same as I had reset but the image now looked the best yet. Perhaps my imagination, but this TV seems like it needs to warm up to new settings. No matter, Johnfull's settings are highly recommended!!
You can turn up the Light Sensor minimum if a darkened room makes
the picture look too dark. I found -11 good, but you can go higher.

I strongly recommend my USER settings over the earlier STANDARD settings.
I worked with the Standard as long as it brought improvement, but faces still were too yellow.
The User setting has a completely different way it handles color and the faces look much
better without so much tinkering with other colors. The white is less blue as well, which is
closer to that magical color temperature that everyone quotes.
I agree that the World Cup looks stunning on these UQ TVs!
Thanks for your encouragement in my effort to make them shine. Go, USA!
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post #3343 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
What exactly is your point with posting that? All it does is further show me you really don't understand how calibrating with equipment is done. To go with greyscale you can calibrate colours with the CMS using a meter so if a colour is off you can adjust that if the CMS works well enough. What you posted has to do with yellow and green out of the box of a 3 year old TV and the person who wrote that said they didn't even use the CMS to try and help with out of the box issues. Again, the CMS is there for that stuff and Sharp has improved their gamut out of the box since then according to what I read meaning less CMS adjustments needed.

If the other point is to say the current standard isn't enough compared to human vision then great as I'm sure everyone would agree with that. I fail to see why that matters though seeing as material is produced using the same standard meaning any limitations will be in the source and you can't magically fix that. If a person doesn't give a crap about that then awesome for them (really, I couldn't care less how someone views their content) but one needs to quit using terms that reflect accuracy because it is not accurate as well as acting like an accurate display calibrated with equipment that is programmed to match the standard is wrong.
Not the CMS, but the White balance that is done first thing with the 2-point or 10-point scale.
The meter reads Red Green and Blue, but these TVs have Yellow as well.
They are made to deliver white light via both RBG and BY.
If the meter doesn't register the yellow contribution, it will be thrown off.
It is all in how the meter reads the light -- white light is composite and is read that way.
The CMS should only be used with the color clipping tests to make sure each color stays
in range of what the TV can output and is done AFTER setting the White temperature
because those settings drive the colors at varying levels.
I fool around with the yellow, blue and cyan as a final fluorish to improve face tones
and to expand the blue spectrum respectively.
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post #3344 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfull View Post
Rob, I appreciate your evangelism on calibration -- I really do!
The testimony of others and of my own eyes has lead me to certain theories.
I've owned Quattron TVs for more than 2 years now and have entered into lots of debate.
Like anything, one can take a dogmatic view or one can observe and be pragmatic.
I posted an old discussion about the Quattron technology to show you what I already told
you here and privately; the system is outside the norm for RGB calibration.
I tried various methods of achieving accurate pictures and will continue to do so.
It seems easy enough for you to criticise, but you must admit that you have never seen
the results of my settings on a UQ set. I have asked Mechman to look at my settings and
perhaps he will. An honest critique by an actual observer goes far further than your
increasingly shrill attacks on my eyesight and/or sanity.
Plenty of folks have now posted to say that they think my settings are better than anything
they have tried. I would love to find some better because I know they aren't perfect.
So far, they are not forthcoming. I will work with Mechman to get to the bottom of the
RGBY riddle -- whether or not the yellow pixel is throwing off RGB sensors in his calculations.
I can't really work with you, Rob, not because you are attacking me but because you have a
different model to which my calculations do not apply. Would you buy a Quattron of your own?
I would buy another one in a heartbeat because I know that they can shine with some TLC.
It's not evangelism. My point is you often whip out terms describing accuracy when talking about your tweaks and I am telling you it isn't accuracy. The other point is you act like equipment somehow just can't get an accurate image but your eyes can and you act like these TVs are somehow special and can't be calibrated to be accurate with a meter when I am telling you they can. It clearly shows you have no idea what you are talking about which is fine but quit acting like you do.

I don't care if others think your settings are amazing and I'm happy if they find they are. That doesn't change the fact they aren't accurate to the source which is my point yet you often talk about your settings as though you are giving a more accurate picture to the source and you make implied comments that anyone who calibrates with equipment to the industry standard is wrong.

I look forward to Mechman doing a run with your settings so I can see the results being off and probably then read how the only reason for that is because his meter and software is wrong or that it doesn't matter because in your mind you have set up your own standard which I guess directors and everyone else should follow.

I guess a problem here is we are defining accuracy to be different. Accuracy to me means the image looks like how it is supposed to as per the source while accuracy to you apparently means trying to match an image on screen to be like what you think it'd look like if it were happening outside your window.

It's one thing to set up an image to be how you like it and telling others you set it up to be how you like it. It's another to set up the image that way and then trying to give off the impression it is accurate and getting into debates with people who actually use equipment to get their display to be accurate and at the same time implying the equipment just can't do the job.
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post #3345 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfull View Post
Not the CMS, but the White balance that is done first thing with the 2-point or 10-point scale.
The meter reads Red Green and Blue, but these TVs have Yellow as well.
They are made to deliver white light via both RBG and BY.
If the meter doesn't register the yellow contribution, it will be thrown off.
It is all in how the meter reads the light -- white light is composite and is read that way.
The CMS should only be used with the color clipping tests to make sure each color stays
in range of what the TV can output and is done AFTER setting the White temperature
because those settings drive the colors at varying levels.
I fool around with the yellow, blue and cyan as a final fluorish to improve face tones
and to expand the blue spectrum respectively.
Once again you just don't understand. A meter is set to a specific white point (d65) and if there is yellow in it then the white point reading would be off. I mean it's really that simple. The yellow subpixel (which is a marketing gimmick as has been stated by numerous people) blends in with the red green and blue to produce white. It isn't just shut off until after someone sets up their greyscale and magically turns on and makes everything yellow.

A meter can get an accurate reading of the greyscale on these TVs and my eyes back that up given my history with other calibrated displays as do the eyes of those reviewers I mentioned who are also ISF certified calibrators and know far more than I do. I fear that I could get every single person in the industry (display and entertainment) to view a Sharp that has been calibrated with a meter and they could confirm it is fine and you'd still argue the point.

I won't clutter up this thread anymore because there is no point trying to talk about this when you just don't understand how it all works and it's not worth my time when you refuse to accept you don't know as much as you think you know about something (calibration equipment and software) you've never even used. I also don't need to be called an evangelical because I actually generally know what I'm talking about.

ROB
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post #3346 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 08:57 AM
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Evangelical in the good sense of the word -- you promote accuracy and I appreciate that.
You ignore the inherent difference of a 4-color system from the traditional 3-color system.
While most commentators call it a gimmick, it has its advantages as well as drawbacks.
One drawback is difficulty in calibration. You have said you couldn't get the blue under control.
I tried several times to explain that blue does double duty to boost the white on these sets and
that your equipment may or may not be adjustable to account for that.
You have maybe twice as much blue output because you have it complementing red and green
on the traditional method and yellow with the Quattron method.
Your calculations are probably based on RGB, which leaves out the blue that is complemented
with yellow, thus making your readings look way too blue.
Compound that with the fact that the LEDs really are too blue and you are out of control.
It took a long time to get my 2 year old set to not look blue on every scene.
It has been much easier with the new UQ set, which makes me think they have improved the LEDs.
I want you to evangelize on accuracy because I want new TVs to come to us ready to go out
of the box like computers are. It is horrible to spend $3,000 and get the look of uncalibrated TV.
I have improved the out of the box picture and have been handed plenty of thanks for sharing.
Like I said, I would welcome learned discussion about the specifics of Quattron versus RGB.
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post #3347 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfull View Post
Like I said, I would welcome learned discussion about the specifics of Quattron versus RGB.
If we could get this debate in 1080i or better, I think I could score a big win by getting my wife to watch this show instead of Real Housewives.

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post #3348 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by labboypro View Post
If we could get this debate in 1080i or better, I think I could score a big win by getting my wife to watch this show instead of Real Housewives.

Sorry 'bout all that!
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I have no comment on the debate. I am reading each person's point. All I can say is that I have used everyones settings that they have posted. If Mechmans are calibrated and very similar to how mine would calibrate I would agree with John that the faces are too yellow. I don't dislike them. When I use Johns settings the tv looks like I a, viewing through a window. It does look that good. Will I get mine professionally calibrated, yeah someday. For now though Johns initial settings and additional posted revised settings really look nice on my set. For me the proof is in what I see.

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post #3350 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechman25 View Post
I had a chance to sit down last night with the meter and do a USER calibration.
I tried to stay with the direction you were going johnfull with auto lighting on and set to -11 to +16.
I also left gamma at o which gave an average gamma of 2.05
Color and tint were done with blue filter.
I have attached some pics of pre and post calibration.
I got the RGB colors even for the RGB balance but they were running a little high above the 0 line.
On the CMS side, green was so far out that I could not get rid of the error on green so I left the CMS values at 0 for all.
This is something that rlindo (I think)ran in to when trying to calibrate game mode.
So here are the numbers I came up with.


AV Mode User
Backlight Auto -11 to +16
Contrast +29
Brightness +2
Color 0
Tint +8
Sharpness 0
Resolution Enhanced Mode 1
Motion enhancement 120hz High
Clear picture processing Off
CMS All 0
Color Temp Low
LO
R -3
G +9
B -26
Hi
R -9
G -1
B -21
Active contrast Off
Gamma adj 0
Film mode Off
Digital noise reduction Off


I am going to try out these settings for a couple of days and see what they look like.
Is this what you were looking for johnfull?


Also for some of the other guys using a meter, is there a method to set color and tint using your meter instead of the blue filter?
I am tending to not believe the higher tint numbers I am getting using a blue filter.
Any possibility of your meter getting false readings on the blue, on account of the yellow pixel?
Do you think the meter is colorblind to yellow? What would be the remedy?
They advertise the yellow as being a wide aperature for letting in light, so maybe we could figure
a doubling of the blue output? Maybe less to start? You could look at my settings and see if you
think they have less coloration in the white -- I didn't have to resort to global Tint changes to
get to where I got (wherever that is!). If you're going to check my settings, though, I prefer
the USER setting to the STANDARD and it has the added advantage of a smooth 2-point scale.
Its peak white is much less blue besides, so would need less doctoring to dial in the temperature.
It's the temperature, though, after deciding how much to alter the blue, that will be tricky.
It the meter is only reading RB&B output, it will show too much blue and give a very high
temperature reading. I'm not sure how to translate the added blue to mix with yellow into the
false high temperature reading. I think this is the crux of the problem, though. Thanks!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelexip View Post
A few newer SQ pics using the rlindo/johnfull combo, basically start with rlindo (2014 Sharp AQUOS Line-Up), and change:
Automatic Light Sensor = On
Backlight = -16
Contrast = +29
Brightness = +1
Motion Enhancement = AquoMotion240
Film Mode = Standard
Color Gamut Range = Expanded
Light Sensor Adjustment = +16/-11

I imagine these are not 100% accurate for what directors intended, and I will probably wind up changing them again shortly, but I figured I would pass them on.
Those are stunning images! Very rich and saturated, with the right contrast/gamma.
How do the fleshtones of faces look in differing light (and different faces, of course!)?
Any strawberries or lemons in that bunch? Hopefully, you have hit the spot!
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post #3352 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiptouz View Post
I have no comment on the debate. I am reading each person's point. All I can say is that I have used everyones settings that they have posted. If Mechmans are calibrated and very similar to how mine would calibrate I would agree with John that the faces are too yellow. I don't dislike them. When I use Johns settings the tv looks like I a, viewing through a window. It does look that good. Will I get mine professionally calibrated, yeah someday. For now though Johns initial settings and additional posted revised settings really look nice on my set. For me the proof is in what I see.
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post #3353 of 3819 Old 06-22-2014, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelexip View Post
A few newer SQ pics using the rlindo/johnfull combo, basically start with rlindo (2014 Sharp AQUOS Line-Up), and change:
Automatic Light Sensor = On
Backlight = -16
Contrast = +29
Brightness = +1
Motion Enhancement = AquoMotion240
Film Mode = Standard
Color Gamut Range = Expanded
Light Sensor Adjustment = +16/-11

I imagine these are not 100% accurate for what directors intended, and I will probably wind up changing them again shortly, but I figured I would pass them on.
does anyone know what post @johnfull 's settings is?

**** sorry for quoting you in my post @pixelexip ... I was supposed to write you a separate post saying "thanks for posting this up" lol ****

Last edited by asanievas22; 06-22-2014 at 06:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by asanievas22 View Post
does anyone know what post @johnfull 's settings is?

**** sorry for quoting you in my post @pixelexip ... I was supposed to write you a separate post saying "thanks for posting this up" lol ****
Sharp UQ17U Calibrations
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post #3355 of 3819 Old 06-23-2014, 05:05 AM
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I have no comment on the debate. I am reading each person's point.
You should. One person clearly has no idea what they're talking about and the other person keeps trying to explain it to them. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
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post #3356 of 3819 Old 06-23-2014, 06:03 AM
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The proof is in the results.
If you have the UQ model, try it.
If not...
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post #3357 of 3819 Old 06-23-2014, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
You should. One person clearly has no idea what they're talking about and the other person keeps trying to explain it to them. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
Actually I don't have to. I am not qualified nor do I have the knowledge that both rlindo and johnfull have with regards to each persons position and do not plan on ever spending the time to gain such. I am just going by what I see, but you conveniently did not quote the whole post. If you have a position other than completely dismissing one side give it b/c some thread subscribers may appreciate the opinion you give. Otherwise don't be an ass.

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I have a week-old LC-70UQ17... I've got it up and running on the wall as I continue to construct the rest of my system... but I haven't had time yet to do any real "setting up" (ie with AVS-709 and S&M). But, just last night I noticed a single vertical line about 6-8" from the right edge of the screen. I only noticed it because I was watching a particularly 'stagnant' bit of light colored scene, and I only saw it when the unit was at 1080p. I did NOT see a complimentary line on the right side of the screen (I seem to recall some reporting these matching lines in some units and/or at some resolution ???). Do I have a defective unit or is there something in my settings I need to look at right away to rule out a problem? The only settings I've mucked with are that I turned it to Aquomotion960, Noise Reduction Off, and that's about it.

Anyone?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by labboypro View Post
I have a week-old LC-70UQ17... I've got it up and running on the wall as I continue to construct the rest of my system... but I haven't had time yet to do any real "setting up" (ie with AVS-709 and S&M). But, just last night I noticed a single vertical line about 6-8" from the right edge of the screen. I only noticed it because I was watching a particularly 'stagnant' bit of light colored scene, and I only saw it when the unit was at 1080p. I did NOT see a complimentary line on the right side of the screen (I seem to recall some reporting these matching lines in some units and/or at some resolution ???). Do I have a defective unit or is there something in my settings I need to look at right away to rule out a problem? The only settings I've mucked with are that I turned it to Aquomotion960, Noise Reduction Off, and that's about it.

Anyone?
Did you try a different input or different light scene?
It is a screen defect if it persists across media, whether in the panel itself or in
the electronics somewhere. I saw the reflection of a door frame in my screen
the first day I owned it and thought it was in the picture. Heart attack time!
Hopefully, it's either a reflection or an artifact in the program you're playing.
Keep us posted!
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post #3360 of 3819 Old 06-23-2014, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfull View Post
Did you try a different input or different light scene?
All my processing equipment is still in boxes as I'm building out the room at the moment... so I've been cheating and running directly into HDMI 1 on the TV. I did unbox my new Oppo 103 last night and plug it into HDMI 2.

I was just watching the season finale of Orphan Black a few minutes ago and snapped some crap-cam pics of the line when I saw it so pronounced on a Subaru commercial. Here's the line...








And here's the current TV mode info...



Since the line was present, I decided to fire up the AVS DVD on the Oppo. I grabbed the first test pattern with a prominent whiteness in it. No line (I would have expected it to be smack dab in the middle of the white field here)...



... from this test pattern screen (blur is the phone cam, of course)...

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