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post #4531 of 4547 Unread 07-19-2015, 08:40 PM
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Thanks jhughy...

So a meter (and software) will help me to accurately set both contrast/brightness plus all the individual colour settings, including hue saturation and value for each of the R, G, B, Y, C, M levels?

Are there any meters that one would recommend?

EDIT: After a little research, I like the sounds of the Spyder5 Elite, but I can't really ascertain whether it will provide calibration of all the adjustable colours on the Sharp (R, G, B, Y, C, M), or just the primary RGB. Can anyone answer this with certainty?

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post #4532 of 4547 Unread 07-20-2015, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemery76 View Post
Thanks jhughy...

So a meter (and software) will help me to accurately set both contrast/brightness plus all the individual colour settings, including hue saturation and value for each of the R, G, B, Y, C, M levels?

Are there any meters that one would recommend?

EDIT: After a little research, I like the sounds of the Spyder5 Elite, but I can't really ascertain whether it will provide calibration of all the adjustable colours on the Sharp (R, G, B, Y, C, M), or just the primary RGB. Can anyone answer this with certainty?
The X-Rite i1Display Pro is the meter that is recommended by most calibrators. Coupled with HCFR you'll be able to calibrate everything: contrast, brightness, gama, CMS including hue, saturation, value, etc.

There is a learning curve that is associated with calibrating. But just like everything in life... stick with it and don't hesitate to ask for help from the guys over at the HCFR thread.

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post #4533 of 4547 Unread 07-20-2015, 06:54 AM
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Clemery76

I've included a screen shot of my latest calibration results using both a 10 point gray scale adjustment and a 10 point saturation adjustment for each of the primary/secondary colors. As you can see, it was nearly impossible to get anything perfect. There was a lot of compromise in regards to the 10 point saturation sweeps (if I wanted the saturation sweeps to be perfect it would result in the color checker patterns to be off).

The CIE diagram is a good representation of how well the display will calibrate each color. I didn't really save a good "before" CIE diagram, but as you can imagine, the dots didn't line up even in the slightest. In fact, gray scale was so completely off that it was off the charts.

Here is a post calibration CIE diagram (you can see that some of the dots are still off from their respective target):



Here is a pre calibration gray scale sweep result (red, blue and green should be right at 100%. Also, the purple line should be below 4 from 0% to 100%. Ideally, it should be below 2):



Here is post calibration gray scale (not perfect... but much better):

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post #4534 of 4547 Unread 07-21-2015, 12:26 AM
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I have actually already gone and bought an X-Rite ColorMunki Display, since it seemed a cheap but reasonable entry point, so I hope its ok.

Thanks for the screenies and advice... I am not really looking to get it perfect, but just reasonably balanced, which I am struggling to do visually (even with standard AVSHD 709 test patterns). I would certainly be happy if I could get my values to be as close as yours, but I am guessing I am going to be spending more late nights calibrating to achieve anything near what I am hoping.

Like any obsession, I spent a little more time fiddling with settings last night, and got the orange problem reduced a little (who would have thought Cyan would be the culprit there?), but as close as it is, I still see colour blooming and noticably "off" colours, albeit to a much smaller degree. My challenge now is to see how close I can get it to my idea of perfect before the ColorMunki arrives.

At least I now only make slight changes every now and then, as opposed to constantly fiddling, and the last hour or so of viewing last night was simply spent enjoying the picture, that now looks sharper than it has since the day I got it. Even the TV broadcast issues I was moaning about in my former post have mostly been resolved thanks to tweaking the CMS settings. That said... there's still room for improvement! ;-)
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post #4535 of 4547 Unread 07-21-2015, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemery76 View Post
I have actually already gone and bought an X-Rite ColorMunki Display, since it seemed a cheap but reasonable entry point, so I hope its ok.

Thanks for the screenies and advice... I am not really looking to get it perfect, but just reasonably balanced, which I am struggling to do visually (even with standard AVSHD 709 test patterns). I would certainly be happy if I could get my values to be as close as yours, but I am guessing I am going to be spending more late nights calibrating to achieve anything near what I am hoping.

Like any obsession, I spent a little more time fiddling with settings last night, and got the orange problem reduced a little (who would have thought Cyan would be the culprit there?), but as close as it is, I still see colour blooming and noticably "off" colours, albeit to a much smaller degree. My challenge now is to see how close I can get it to my idea of perfect before the ColorMunki arrives.

At least I now only make slight changes every now and then, as opposed to constantly fiddling, and the last hour or so of viewing last night was simply spent enjoying the picture, that now looks sharper than it has since the day I got it. Even the TV broadcast issues I was moaning about in my former post have mostly been resolved thanks to tweaking the CMS settings. That said... there's still room for improvement! ;-)
I believe the ColorMunki will work fine with HCFR.

When you do get the meter, go ahead and download HCFR and start playing around with it. I started by using this guide which I skimmed through twice. Once I had a basic understanding of what I was doing I began to ask questions. Not surprisingly, there are a few guys at the HCFR thread that have Sharps with similar controls. We would be more than willing to help you.

Use a laptop with HDMI output... it will make things so incredibly easy. Connect your laptop directly to the TV via HDMI (laptop will then use the TV to display test patterns making it easier for you to make adjustments) and connect the meter directly to your laptop via HDMI then sling it over the back of your TV. I actually ended up buying a USB extension cord so that I didn't have to sit/stand right in front of the TV. You can relax on your couch or whatever if you have long USB cable and long HDMI cable.

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post #4536 of 4547 Unread 07-21-2015, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Here is the cal to the Sharp SQ 60" using HCFR and i1display Pro (after owning about 1.5 years and spending over 80 hours perfecting the calibration for Rec 709):

AV MODE: Movie
Automatic Light Sensor: Off
Backlight: +8
Contrast: +27
Brightness: +0
Color: +0
Tint: +0
Sharpness: +0

Advanced
Resolution Mode: Mode 1
Motion Enhancement: 120Hz Low
Clear Picture Processing: Off

C.M.S -Hue
R +7
Y +3
G -7
C +4
B +1
M -8

C.M.S - Saturation
R -2
Y -1
G +1
C +9
B +4
M -3

C.M.S. - Value
Not used

Color Temp: Low
R LO: +0
G LO: +10
B LO: -28
R HI: -2
G HI: -30
B HI: -30

Active Contrast: Off
Gamma Adjustment: -2
Film Mode: Off
Digital Noise Reduction: Off
Color Gamut Range: Standard
Monochrome: Off

After playing around calibrating for nearly 40 hours I finally discovered that having a lower contrast resulted in a lower average dE across the board with all saturation levels of the primaries/secondaries as well as decent color checker average dE. As a consequence, I increased the backlight. What resulted is a very accurate CIE diagram (compared to many other settings I have experimented with) and lower dE. Initially yellow was only accurate with a C.M.S. Saturation of +17. I found that this increased Orange on the color checker pattern too drastically (a dE of over 6) and flesh tones resulted in too much saturation making things noticeably orange... but the CIE diagram didn't reflect this as yellow "appeared" accurate between 0 and 90% saturation. When I used the color checker "yellow orange" pattern to reduce saturation to yellow then 100% yellow became accurate (low dE) and then Orange became accurate as well. Flesh/skin tones were much better.

Anyhow, anybody with an SQ should try out these settings. Remember, it is only good for Rec 709 material. Video games don't really do well as the input lag is too high for movie mode.

Thanks mate for this. I am going to plug your cms values into my parents' SQ the next time I am there and see how it compares to the last calibration I did on that set close to a year ago since I am annoyed at fleshtones with it. You probably don't remember me but I was active in this thread a bunch last summer when they got it and complained about the difficulty in calibrating the set. Nice to see you also see the frustration yet not nice you have had to deal with it.

I recently got myself the Panasonic 65CX850 and what a difference both in calibration ease and colour/accuracy.

I also agree that the models were screwed up by Sharp and that I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a SQ. Had Vizio been available here in Canada at the time then I would have had my parents get a 70" Vizio instead since it'd have seemingly had better everything compared to the SQ.
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post #4537 of 4547 Unread 07-21-2015, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
Thanks mate for this. I am going to plug your cms values into my parents' SQ the next time I am there and see how it compares to the last calibration I did on that set close to a year ago since I am annoyed at fleshtones with it. You probably don't remember me but I was active in this thread a bunch last summer when they got it and complained about the difficulty in calibrating the set. Nice to see you also see the frustration yet not nice you have had to deal with it.

I recently got myself the Panasonic 65CX850 and what a difference both in calibration ease and colour/accuracy.

I also agree that the models were screwed up by Sharp and that I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a SQ. Had Vizio been available here in Canada at the time then I would have had my parents get a 70" Vizio instead since it'd have seemingly had better everything compared to the SQ.
Hey it's good to see ya back in the thread! Of course I remember... it was likely you that led me to get my first calibration meter and finally get this thing calibrated.

This TV is a piece of work! I am looking forward to my next one... until then though I will continue to tinker and get things perfected. I'm likely done for a very long time though.

That 4k Panny looks like a great set. It was probably night and day difference getting things accurate on it compared to the SQ.
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post #4538 of 4547 Unread 07-21-2015, 04:19 PM
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haha I like that then if I got you down the calibration/accuracy path.

Do you notice any lip sync issues with your SQ? I notice it from time to time when I am at their house and it is frustrating. I have to put the TV in game mode it seems to get rid of it or at least lessen it.

The CX850 is indeed a pretty great and provides a very plasma-like image. Colour is incredible since they use a 3D LUT that has something like 8000 points so you get the great accuracy there and colours in dim scenes stay nice and vibrant. And yes, calibrating it was night and day compared to the SQ since the controls actually fully work and there is a 100 point range per control so you can easily make things "perfect" so to speak...oh and the greyscale doesn't come out of the box in super 9000k colour temp mode where you end up running out of adjustment in the white balance controls.
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post #4539 of 4547 Unread 07-21-2015, 06:43 PM
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haha I like that then if I got you down the calibration/accuracy path.

Do you notice any lip sync issues with your SQ? I notice it from time to time when I am at their house and it is frustrating. I have to put the TV in game mode it seems to get rid of it or at least lessen it.

The CX850 is indeed a pretty great and provides a very plasma-like image. Colour is incredible since they use a 3D LUT that has something like 8000 points so you get the great accuracy there and colours in dim scenes stay nice and vibrant. And yes, calibrating it was night and day compared to the SQ since the controls actually fully work and there is a 100 point range per control so you can easily make things "perfect" so to speak...oh and the greyscale doesn't come out of the box in super 9000k colour temp mode where you end up running out of adjustment in the white balance controls.
Yeah these Sharps were nowhere near 6500k out of the box... I think it is even comical how they have a Dynamic settings.

The lip sync issue is definitely prevalent on my panel as well. What I have done to remedy it is add an 80ms audio delay to my AVR. Fortunately I have that tool having the AVR. If I just had a set top box or BD player connected directly to the panel then I don't know how I would remedy it... possibly switching to gaming mode would work.

I too calibrated the game mode for HTPC gaming. The input lag was too great on movie mode. I also came to a realization that in order to get gray scale with a lower average dE that I needed to set contrast low (like +27 movie mode, +30 game mode.

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post #4540 of 4547 Unread 07-21-2015, 07:26 PM
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Yep, the contrast definitely needs to be lower than ideal to get the greyscale in check. I'm still baffled a year later as to why EVERY single colour temp preset is as blue as ti is. No excuse for the lowest coming in at over 8500K which is what I measured it at.

Crazy Sharp. heh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LePaul View Post
Did you guys see the new firmware update?

FIRMWARE FOR LC-60SQ15U

Version
213U1502131
Date
2/27/15
This firmware improves the audio playback in the Pandora application. It also improves the backlight level when in THX AV Mode and input signal is switched from 4k to 2k. It also adds support for the IR Blaster accessory, and updates the Smart Central 3.0 platform.

This firmware also contains all previous fixes and enhancements. Please see section 4-32 of the Operation Manual for the software update instructions.

For any LC70UD1U, LCxxLE650U, LCxxLE657U and LCxxC6500U models, this firmware is for models with Serial Numbers starting with "4xxxxxxxx". Please ensure you have the correct firmware version for your serial number before beginning the manual firmware upgrade via USB.

Version: 213U1502131

Date: 2/27/15
Are you Using another model firmware, does it work?
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post #4542 of 4547 Unread 07-30-2015, 07:31 AM
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Wish Sharp would get together with Amazon Prime...really poor they don't...

Best of luck
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post #4543 of 4547 Unread 08-01-2015, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
Yep, the contrast definitely needs to be lower than ideal to get the greyscale in check. I'm still baffled a year later as to why EVERY single colour temp preset is as blue as ti is. No excuse for the lowest coming in at over 8500K which is what I measured it at.

Crazy Sharp. heh

I received my ColorMunki this week and have just got it out and started playing around with HCFR, using the Standard AV mode to play around with. I have just gone through the greyscale calibrations and already I have questions that I hope the members of this forus may be able to shed some light on.

Firstly, like rlindo above, I also found that blue across the board was way too high. The LE960X features RGB gain controls for the 10-point scale, and I could never get blue down to anywhere near 100%, especially in the 0%-30% or 70%-100% areas.

I also find that from 70%-100%, any adjusts made to the individual RGB Gain controls had no effect on the readings, while the dE remained really high.

Any suggestions as to what I should consider?

Here is a before and after comparison of the greyscale, and note that the blue gain was reduced to its lowest levels at each step of the greyscale.

Any comments to help me learn tips on correcting identified errors would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!
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post #4544 of 4547 Unread 08-01-2015, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemery76 View Post
I received my ColorMunki this week and have just got it out and started playing around with HCFR, using the Standard AV mode to play around with. I have just gone through the greyscale calibrations and already I have questions that I hope the members of this forus may be able to shed some light on.

Firstly, like rlindo above, I also found that blue across the board was way too high. The LE960X features RGB gain controls for the 10-point scale, and I could never get blue down to anywhere near 100%, especially in the 0%-30% or 70%-100% areas.

I also find that from 70%-100%, any adjusts made to the individual RGB Gain controls had no effect on the readings, while the dE remained really high.

Any suggestions as to what I should consider?

Here is a before and after comparison of the greyscale, and note that the blue gain was reduced to its lowest levels at each step of the greyscale.

Any comments to help me learn tips on correcting identified errors would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!
Awesome! I'm glad to see that you've stepped into the world of calibrating.

There are effectively a TON of notes that I have taken from the HCFR thread on how to set up HCFR and how to get started with a Sharp. Unfortunately I'm on vacation and won't be sble to get you those notes for another week. Anyhow, I'll go off my worn memory until then.

Start by using movie AV mode. This will usually give you the lowest dE out the gate and yield a color temp of closer to 6500k versus other AV modes.

My Sharp has RGB low and RGB high adjustments for the 2 point. Unfortunately adjusting the 10 point resets the 2 point. So most of us just stuck with 2 point adjustments. Start by adjusting RGB high using the 70% white test pattern. To do this have gray scale selected on the drop down in HCFR and then click the green arrow/button that says continuous test or whatever. Then click 70% and the test pattern should display allowing you to take a continuous measurement while adjusting RGB high controls. Adjust until you have the lowest possible dE value. Getting all the RGB bars to 100% will get you the lowest dE value.

Do the same thing with 30% utilizing the RGB low controls. Once you do this run a 10 point check and post it for us to check out.

Oh.... disable all image enhancement options like active contrast, edge enhancement etc.

Also, might post in HCFR thread. Definitely get lots of expert help there.

Did you get contrast, brightness and backlight adjusted correctly? No need to mess with color, tint and sharpness yet. These controls usually do better at their default settings.
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post #4545 of 4547 Unread 08-01-2015, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Awesome! I'm glad to see that you've stepped into the world of calibrating.

There are effectively a TON of notes that I have taken from the HCFR thread on how to set up HCFR and how to get started with a Sharp. Unfortunately I'm on vacation and won't be sble to get you those notes for another week. Anyhow, I'll go off my worn memory until then.

Start by using movie AV mode. This will usually give you the lowest dE out the gate and yield a color temp of closer to 6500k versus other AV modes.

My Sharp has RGB low and RGB high adjustments for the 2 point. Unfortunately adjusting the 10 point resets the 2 point. So most of us just stuck with 2 point adjustments. Start by adjusting RGB high using the 70% white test pattern. To do this have gray scale selected on the drop down in HCFR and then click the green arrow/button that says continuous test or whatever. Then click 70% and the test pattern should display allowing you to take a continuous measurement while adjusting RGB high controls. Adjust until you have the lowest possible dE value. Getting all the RGB bars to 100% will get you the lowest dE value.

Do the same thing with 30% utilizing the RGB low controls. Once you do this run a 10 point check and post it for us to check out.

Oh.... disable all image enhancement options like active contrast, edge enhancement etc.

Also, might post in HCFR thread. Definitely get lots of expert help there.

Did you get contrast, brightness and backlight adjusted correctly? No need to mess with color, tint and sharpness yet. These controls usually do better at their default settings.
Hey thanks for the quick response... no need to cut into your vacation time though! I'm in no rush, just playing around for now. I am just using Standard to experiment and get used to the tools, so will tackle AV Movie and THX modes once confident, and hopefully will find that the preset temp is more within an acceptable range.

I have been using calibrations DVD/BD's for years, so i just turn all the extra processing and sharpness off by default! Backlight is a feature that I have not had before though, and still learning the impact that it has on contrast, brightness, colour etc.

I will apply your recommendations above (again just using Standard as a test) and will post the results.

Cheers!
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OK, so I have played a little more with the ColorMunki on Standard mode, and applied your suggestion of calibrating the HI and LO RGB levels at 30% & 70% respectively, with the results attached to this post. The results were very interesting, with the blue falling right into line and the overall curve seemingly a lot more accurate... but it has introduced a massive dip around the 60% level. Any advice on what might have caused this?
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post #4547 of 4547 Unread Today, 09:30 PM
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I also thought I would check out the default THX settings, and ultimately tried calibrating the 10-point scale (again, just to see the effect it has), and it would seem that I am better off with the default values than my customised calibrations. Not sure if I am doing it wrong, but the curve seemed more in line with the default values, even though the individual RGB levels were measuring vast imbalances at each step of the 10 point scale (blue being the dominant colour in each case), and I was mostly successful in equalising the RGB values to 100%, especially in the low end of the scale. But what I found was that from 60% onwards, any adjustments made to the RGB levels in the tv settings made no change to the reading (I would reduce blue gain to -30, and increase green to +30 and red to +15, yet the measured values remained virtually static - blue, for example, would change between 140.6%-140.8%). Could this be an issue with the ColorMunki, or is it people's experience that readings/adjustments become less accurate at the brighter end of the scale?

I have attached before and after graphs of the THX mode. Is there any advice on how I can reign in the 60%-80% colour and dE values?

Thanks in advance, of course!
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