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post #4561 of 4576 Old 08-15-2015, 06:14 PM
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jhughy2010,

I'm at my parents house right now and remembered your settings you posted so I did try them out and unfortunately they don't work well with this specific SQ/this setup. Damn! I was really hoping they would work and fix some of the issues I have with this set like the excessive yellow spots on skin.

I'm going to have to tackle this sumbitch again later on. Watching this after using my Panny CX850 is a bit difficult. hehe
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post #4562 of 4576 Old 08-17-2015, 11:03 AM
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Just bought the LC-70SQ10U and its the same as the SQ15U model but without 3D. From what I've read trough this thread am the first person here with this model, so it does exist. Am from Mexico and maybe this model is designed for emergent economies or whatever. Was like $120 dls cheaper than SQ15 and $250 dls than UQ17. Paid $1,150 dls for it new in box.

I usually buy my electronic devices at the States and bring them over, but now that the peso has lost 30% of its value this year against the dollar, for some reasons prices have stayed the same so I can actually get decent prices.

After 2 weeks of owning this model and having tried all the settings recommended here and other places, I've been using rlindo settings. The ones before the 10 point reference things.

I don't own Blue Ray discs so all of the settings that I've tried have been playing 1gb rips movies from computer and from a private channel of Roku in which movies are HD of decent quality but nothing amazing. I used to own a 5 year old Sharp Aquos 46 Led-LCD TV and that thing has a similar menu and was way easy to calibrate.

One thing I love about this TV is that I sit like 8 feet away from it and some days ago I was very sick so stayed at home the whole day playing PS4 and watching movies and not at one moment I felt my eyes tired. I have several AV Modes calibrated from here but usually use a User Mode that I adapt some of someone else and personalize it. I could share it but I did just by eye and by taste and it´s a setting for ****ty material to look better.

So all in all is nice to see that this thread is alive and everyone is doing their best for us to take the most advantage of our tv set.
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post #4563 of 4576 Old 08-17-2015, 11:12 AM
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I ordered a ColorMunki photo spectrophotometer which should be arriving Wednesday and the next time I am at my parents to dog watch I will look to really try and dial in the SQ15 and get it looking as good as I can.

I've gained calibration knowledge over the last year and that coupled with more led based experience messing with my CX850 and the spectro makes me think I can get the SQ looking better than I originally had it looking.
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post #4564 of 4576 Old 08-17-2015, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
I ordered a ColorMunki photo spectrophotometer which should be arriving Wednesday and the next time I am at my parents to dog watch I will look to really try and dial in the SQ15 and get it looking as good as I can.

I've gained calibration knowledge over the last year and that coupled with more led based experience messing with my CX850 and the spectro makes me think I can get the SQ looking better than I originally had it looking.
That would be great. I would be honest and I really like a lot more your calibrations without the 10 point thing that with it. Been thankful with all of your settings but I don't know maybe my tv viewing distance is different and lighting at my living room is varying a lot so that could be it.
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post #4565 of 4576 Old 08-17-2015, 12:07 PM
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I did a 10 point with this TV? I thought I never bothered since the 2 point controls get screwed up when using it.

Edit: Yep, I see the last run (I think last) I did was using the 10 point since I was able to get a more linear greyscale and gamma tracking that way. I'll see how it is with just the 2 point and then may try 10 point if I'm not satisfied with the 2 point result. Chances are I will stick with the 2 point because a) it isn't my TV and my parents won't care about this stuff and b) it's never going to hit true reference standards so no point in trying to do something the TV simply won't ever be able to do.

There is a chance I may have to be there on Friday to dog sit during the day so if so, that's when I will do this.

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post #4566 of 4576 Old 08-18-2015, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
jhughy2010,

I'm at my parents house right now and remembered your settings you posted so I did try them out and unfortunately they don't work well with this specific SQ/this setup. Damn! I was really hoping they would work and fix some of the issues I have with this set like the excessive yellow spots on skin.

I'm going to have to tackle this sumbitch again later on. Watching this after using my Panny CX850 is a bit difficult. hehe
Yeah this set really is a pain in the rear getting excess yellow under control. As you can see with my CIE diagram that I posted, yellow is pretty much screwed up permanently. I think it has a lot to do with the extra sub pixel (yellow) that causes this set to screw yellow up so much. I found it was either one extreme or the other. In order to get things "looking" good in regard to fleshtones I had to dial yellow back drastically which resulted in an off the chart CIE diagram in regards to yellow. The dE for yellow sky rocketed. But in contrast, skin tones under color checker had a relatively low dE with yellow dialed way back. Just another reason why I hate this set!

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I did a 10 point with this TV? I thought I never bothered since the 2 point controls get screwed up when using it.

Edit: Yep, I see the last run (I think last) I did was using the 10 point since I was able to get a more linear greyscale and gamma tracking that way. I'll see how it is with just the 2 point and then may try 10 point if I'm not satisfied with the 2 point result. Chances are I will stick with the 2 point because a) it isn't my TV and my parents won't care about this stuff and b) it's never going to hit true reference standards so no point in trying to do something the TV simply won't ever be able to do.

There is a chance I may have to be there on Friday to dog sit during the day so if so, that's when I will do this.
I'm going to set some more time aside and try to dial things in as well. I noticed while watching "House of Cards" that the blacks were crushed to smithereens. I wonder if that is how the show was mastered (always dark) but I have a feeling that my luminance is a relative low. I lowered contrast some to get gray scale in line and as a result I may need to increase the back-light more. I remember one pro calibrator raised the back-light to maximum to get this set dialed in. I may try to do that.

Also, check out post 4533. See how the 90% saturation point is below the 80% saturation target for yellow on the CIE diagram? This is another example of how messed up this set is. In the upper part of the yellow portion of the CIE diagram you can see the yellow targets for the color checker tests. The points are not even close to the targets. Just below the yellow saturation targets (between yellow and red targets) are the skin tone targets. One of them is under-saturated severely. Again, nearly impossible to fix.

I did notice that my post for settings had an error. Green High for Color Temp is not -30. It is supposed to be +20. I'll fix the post.
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post #4567 of 4576 Old 08-18-2015, 04:39 AM
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I thought the -30 for the green gain was odd and wondered if it was a typo yet figured wtf knows with these sets. It may have been why things didn't work out on that set and when I'm back over there I'll try again before I slap the spectro on the screen and see what's up.

Yes, that is messed up how yellow is tracking so poorly from 30% to 90% since 30% seems to almost be in the 20% box. Like you, I dialed back yellow to try and lessen the skin tone yellow spots being so bright and saturated. I believe I turned it down after I posted my figures here a year ago. Still didn't work.

I'm actually looking forward to trying to tackle this beast yet again.
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post #4568 of 4576 Old 08-18-2015, 07:20 AM
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I'm actually over at their place dog sitting right now and trying to deal with this set. Got the greyscale/gamma decently tracked and now doing battle with this joke of a cms.

Attached is a saturation chart with colour settings at default. I mean look at this garbage. This is pathetic and there is NO WAY I can tame this beast without a lumagen or other external device that can fix Sharp's pathetic bull****. Before resetting things I worked on 100% and everything else was complete crap.

Checked out some Person of Interest and detective Carter's face was yellow.

The funny thing with getting an external processor like the lumagen is you can just go and buy a better tv that won't be this pathetic for the same price or less.

I also measured the set's black level and it came in at a lousy 0.063 cd/m2 with white at 112.

Doesn't help that the CMS controls are broken both with value not doing anything and saturation doing more than it should.

Not hard to see why Sharp pulled out of the TV business with this type of incompetent ****.
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post #4569 of 4576 Old 08-18-2015, 10:35 AM
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Well, I tried and I feel I got the image to be a bit better and lessened the the yellow splotch look. Couldn't of course do it and keep things in line so yellow will read out like jhughy's run. To me it is a far better tradeoff than having this people look like they have jaundice. yellow areas on skin are still more pronounced than they should be.

I got greyscale dialed in and actually had brightness at 120 cd/m2 on white but to do that either required setting contrast high (which throws out colours and makes the yellow worse) or upping the backlight to +11 which then made the clouding far more visible so I decided to just give up the brightness target.

I used the 10 point controls again (sorry antala) because that's the best way to get the greyscale to be consistent and I was targeting a BT.1886 gamma curve which because of the mediocre black means the overall gamma is around 2.2.

av mode: movie
backlight +5
contrast +23 (if the cms actually worked how it should and had a functioning luminance adjustment then one could jack up contrast a good bit more)
brightness 0
colour 0
tint 0
sharpness 0

advanced menu

resolution enhanced: off (this causes worsening of the yellow when it is on and it also dims the image)
motion enhancement: off (personal preference)
clear picture proc: off

cms hue (in order they appear)
-7, -5, -7, 5, -15, -1

cms saturation (in order they appear)
0, -10 (because yellow sucks so much), 5, 5, 5, 6

cms value: not used because this is broken and should probably be for the cms luminance funny since a luminance control would probably go a long way to fixing the colour issues on this model

colour temp 10 point setting on:

pos 1: 0, 8, -30
pos 2: -9, 9, -30
pos 3: 4, 17, -30
pos 4: 8, 16, -30
pos 5: 3, 18, -30
pos 6: -1, 21, -30
pos 7: -6, 18, -30
pos 8: -7, 21, -30
pos 9: -8, 17, -30
pos 10: 0, 0, -30

gee look at that, -30 for every blue value. stunned!

active contrast: off
gamma: -3
film mode: off (personal pref)
digital noise reduction: off
colour gamut: standard

Watching some Person of Interest on blu-ray right now and I can say I'm not disgusted by the yellowing of some facial areas like I was before. Skin tones are still off yet this is passable.
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post #4570 of 4576 Old 08-18-2015, 10:38 AM
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jhughy,

If you decide to do a run with the 10 point controls then some info...other than at 10 and I think maybe 20%, the controls don't actually do the changes for the levels that correspond to the numbers and work on the % level above. So if you select position 4 then the changes will be for 50%. Position 9 works for 100% but position 10 is also a slight tweak for 100%.
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post #4571 of 4576 Old 08-18-2015, 11:06 AM
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jhughy,

If you decide to do a run with the 10 point controls then some info...other than at 10 and I think maybe 20%, the controls don't actually do the changes for the levels that correspond to the numbers and work on the % level above. So if you select position 4 then the changes will be for 50%. Position 9 works for 100% but position 10 is also a slight tweak for 100%.
Am grateful for all that you'll doing. Can't wait to get home and try these settings.

This is just a personal question but once you have the settings that you like do you use them for everything..Like for example Hockey, Baseball, Videogames and Regular TV?
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post #4572 of 4576 Old 08-18-2015, 11:35 AM
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Am grateful for all that you'll doing. Can't wait to get home and try these settings.

This is just a personal question but once you have the settings that you like do you use them for everything..Like for example Hockey, Baseball, Videogames and Regular TV?
Yes, whenever I calibrate my own displays I use the same settings for everything. Others don't often do this and have specific settings for things like sports.
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post #4573 of 4576 Old 08-18-2015, 11:22 PM
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@rlindo

Yes these sets are full of gimmicks and the only fix would likely be a lumagen like you mentioned. I am really disappointed that the sets CMS value is broken. Undoubtedly having value work would fix some of the problems with yellow and magenta.

I have not tried the 10 point (too many reported that it wasn't performing better than 2 point due to the resetting of the 2 point values). I will however give it a try.

I'm surprised that +23 contrast ended up being a comfortable setting during your cal. I found that even with +27 the blacks were crushed and there was a lack of detail (unable to see folds in black sport coats during House of Cards for an example). I can however certainly imagine that +23 would yield much lower average dE during a cal... it was a huge revalation to me when I discovered that average dE dropped dramatically when I went from +30 to +27 for contrast.

If I remember right I did play around with resolution enhancement and I noticed a pretty significant difference in the sharpness of my desktop background with my HTPC. I found that with it on the large pixels didn't seem to be as noticeable with the smaller desktop icons.

Lastly, what was your strategy when calibrating CMS? I ask because at first I opted to calibrate each value to 100% saturation for both primaries and secondaries. This morphed into only focusing on 75% saturation. Then after obtaining more advice I did a 10 point saturation adjustment focusing mostly on say 20%, 40%, 50% and 80%. Then my last calibration I ditched calibrating the primaries and secondaries and just focused on the color checker patterns. There are some 20 plus measurements in HCFR that focus on these colors. Some tests like foliage really jacked up green. So green was left alone (maintained the saturation test adjustments). I remember that getting orange dE low on the color checker really helped get the jaundice out of the faces. It did, however, raise dE for yellow quite a bit. But as you can see... yellow is significantly jacked up below 100% saturation anyway.

TVs shouldn't be this hard to calibrate... I recently read the review by Mark Henninger regarding the Vizio 4k set he had been auditioning.... goodness that set seems like an easy thing to calibrate. I will certainly be looking at Vizio's the next go around!
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post #4574 of 4576 Old Yesterday, 06:24 AM
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jhughy,

The 10 point will work if the targeted gamma is within range and one wants to just have as smooth a greyscale/gamma as possible. If they didn't screw up the whole 2 pt/10 pt thing then it'd have worked how it should. I still find 10 pt to be better than 2 pt on their set at least since 2 point gives some spots that aren't in line. Your set may behave differently though and it tracks fine with just the 2 point. 10 pt also makes targeting bt.1886 fairly doable.

I went with a lower contrast setting just for the effect it was having on the luminance, specifically with yellow. If I raised that more then the yellow issue with skintones became more visible and annoying to me so it was more for that than other stuff. A setting of 20 was actually the best for the cms luminance readings yet I bumped it up since (I believe) greyscale at the top end became better/less blue with it higher and the effect on colours wasn't too bothersome and bumping it up meant I would lower the backlight which helped with the clouding.

Do you notice issues with shadow detail on other material or just house of cards? What's your gamma reading at the low end? Have you bumped up the brightness setting to +1 to see if it overall works better despite it raising the black level a bit? I find shadow detail to be a tricky thing to gauge because a lot of stuff simply isn't supposed to be seen. Does HCFR have internal patterns to use or do you use a calibration disc like the avs one? If you use the avs disc, are you able to see levels 17+ on the brightness pattern? There is also a near black window pattern in the colorhcfr section on the disc and if you check that out and can see the 1% window then I'd think things are fine.

For the cms I also first tried 100% and it looked like piss in content and confirmed by checking the saturation sweeps after. I then targeted 75% in the saturation sweeps and noticed that 25 and 50 seemed to track better to it than everything does to 100% so I just stuck with that and did a bit of tweaking by eye on skintones. Lowering that yellow saturation helped big time for the faces. The spots I see of yellow on skin are there on other displays so it's part of the source but on this they just seem to be way more distracting and visible than they should be. On other sets they are mild and blend in better. I debated hooking up my laptop to it and sending the Calman internal patterns and checking out the colourchecker results yet figured I didn't care enough to put in that work since the cms is so borked.

That's good that the resolution enhancement actually does have value and can be beneficial. I wanted to keep it on yet it just had too much a negative effect on the upper gamma, colours and overall brightness when trying to minimize clouding.

I agree that TVs shouldn't be that hard to calibrate since they shouldn't have broken controls which the SQ line has in what seems like every area. My CX850 is a dream to calibrate and every TV should follow that model of controls/ability.

I'd definitely recommend the Vizio line given they seem to have great performance bang for the buck. The local dimming algorithm seems to have an effect on calibration but it sounds like it is somewhat like on my CX850 and you can get fairly deal with that using certain patterns. It's a bit tricky at first to figure out the interaction of the dimming on things but once you get the hang of how it all interacts then it's fairly easy in repeated runs.

Now I will say that despite all this, I do find the SQ can produce a decent image despite it having issues with accuracy and calibration and colours seem to be solid except for that yellow junk. It's quite a sharp/detailed image and I don't find any issues with motion. I can see people who don't care about accuracy being very pleased with it all and probably thinking we're kooks.
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post #4575 of 4576 Old Yesterday, 06:36 PM
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jhughy,

The 10 point will work if the targeted gamma is within range and one wants to just have as smooth a greyscale/gamma as possible. If they didn't screw up the whole 2 pt/10 pt thing then it'd have worked how it should. I still find 10 pt to be better than 2 pt on their set at least since 2 point gives some spots that aren't in line. Your set may behave differently though and it tracks fine with just the 2 point. 10 pt also makes targeting bt.1886 fairly doable.
I'm definitely going to give this a try next go around.

Quote:
I went with a lower contrast setting just for the effect it was having on the luminance, specifically with yellow. If I raised that more then the yellow issue with skintones became more visible and annoying to me so it was more for that than other stuff. A setting of 20 was actually the best for the cms luminance readings yet I bumped it up since (I believe) greyscale at the top end became better/less blue with it higher and the effect on colours wasn't too bothersome and bumping it up meant I would lower the backlight which helped with the clouding.
I think what I'll do is run a 10 point gray scale test at each level of contrast to see where the returns are greatest (lowest average dE). Good advice!

Quote:
Do you notice issues with shadow detail on other material or just house of cards? What's your gamma reading at the low end? Have you bumped up the brightness setting to +1 to see if it overall works better despite it raising the black level a bit? I find shadow detail to be a tricky thing to gauge because a lot of stuff simply isn't supposed to be seen. Does HCFR have internal patterns to use or do you use a calibration disc like the avs one? If you use the avs disc, are you able to see levels 17+ on the brightness pattern? There is also a near black window pattern in the colorhcfr section on the disc and if you check that out and can see the 1% window then I'd think things are fine.
You're right... I checked out "Defiance" on Netflix and there was noticeably more shadow detail than House of Cards. I will however (during my next calibration try) check out the brightness pattern to see what my results are.

Quote:
That's good that the resolution enhancement actually does have value and can be beneficial. I wanted to keep it on yet it just had too much a negative effect on the upper gamma, colours and overall brightness when trying to minimize clouding.
I just tried this out again. Disabling resolution enhancement had a dramatic affect on colors. I would have to re-calibrate completely if I wanted to keep it off. Too bad there is no way to do a complete side by side comparison. I think having it set to mode 1 though is really helping out making things "appear" sharper.

Quote:
Now I will say that despite all this, I do find the SQ can produce a decent image despite it having issues with accuracy and calibration and colours seem to be solid except for that yellow junk. It's quite a sharp/detailed image and I don't find any issues with motion. I can see people who don't care about accuracy being very pleased with it all and probably thinking we're kooks.
Agreed. It's not completely horrible... it is however an overpriced set considering what you get. In hindsight I would have bought the Vizio 65 inch model (like a 2014 E series) and saved a few hundred dollars and many a headache calibrating it!
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I'd say that if you prefer the resolution enhanced 1 image and have tweaked the image to look decently with it that you should definitely keep it enabled.

Good to know shadow detail was fine in Defiance and it may have just been House of Cards.

Looking forward to see the results of your next calibration run.
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