Panasonic Claims New LED-lit LCDs Match Plasma Quality at CES 2014 - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 368 Old 03-27-2014, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

More on the AX900 and comparison to the ZT60: http://www.trustedreviews.com/panasonic-tx-l65ax900_TV_review

This is apparently an IPS panel with only 128 dimming zones that exhibited 'some evidence of backlight haloing' (blooming).

The only reason Panasonic would have gone IPS is if they were more concerned about off-angle viewing than they were about blooming (possibly driven by their obsession to make head-to-head comparison's with their own ZT60...).

I would be willing to trade off a somewhat narrower viewing angle for elimination of blooming on average viewing content, so these early review of the AX900 have wet my appetite for the 384-dimming-zone MVA Vizio Reference Series...

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This is striking to say the least, thanks predominantly to a combination of a slight (three degree) backward tilt and a full-width bar-style stand that extends just a couple of inches below the screen’s bottom edge.

Panasonic claims that the low-sitting, gently leaning and metallic-finished design should integrate better with contemporary furniture and living room styles

Not liking what I'm reading on this design.


As far the haloing, I don't see it in their one picture comparison. The black shadow under the shoe exhibits no haloing.
The fact the LED displays 10 times the shadow detail over the plasma, which itself had amazing shadow detail, leads me to believe that jacked the contrast & backlights to the fullest on the LED.

In a home setting, lowering them should alleviate haloing.
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post #362 of 368 Old 03-27-2014, 11:07 AM
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Do not understand how you can get colors  " DCI 98% Color " 

 

http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-58AX800U

 

Panasonic has a special mechanism that fits panel color ? 
Or is it for just the movies that come with  " DCI 98% Color "  ?

How to benefit from the addition of color  ?

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post #363 of 368 Old 03-27-2014, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

More on the AX900 and comparison to the ZT60: http://www.trustedreviews.com/panasonic-tx-l65ax900_TV_review

This is apparently an IPS panel with only 128 dimming zones that exhibited 'some evidence of backlight haloing' (blooming).

The only reason Panasonic would have gone IPS is if they were more concerned about off-angle viewing than they were about blooming (possibly driven by their obsession to make head-to-head comparison's with their own ZT60...).

I would be willing to trade off a somewhat narrower viewing angle for elimination of blooming on average viewing content, so these early review of the AX900 have wet my appetite for the 384-dimming-zone MVA Vizio Reference Series...

Quote:
This is striking to say the least, thanks predominantly to a combination of a slight (three degree) backward tilt and a full-width bar-style stand that extends just a couple of inches below the screen’s bottom edge.

Panasonic claims that the low-sitting, gently leaning and metallic-finished design should integrate better with contemporary furniture and living room styles

Not liking what I'm reading on this design.


As far the haloing, I don't see it in their one picture comparison. The black shadow under the shoe exhibits no haloing.
The fact the LED displays 10 times the shadow detail over the plasma, which itself had amazing shadow detail, leads me to believe that jacked the contrast & backlights to the fullest on the LED.

In a home setting, lowering them should elevate haloing.

Why would lowering contrast and backlight elevate blooming?

Blooming (haloing) is unfortunately directly related to native panel contrast ratio and your eyes adjust to whatever the background brightness is.

Take the brightest pixels within a dimming zone and those define the backlight brightness required in that dimming zone (those pixels are full 'ON').

Surrounding pixels that should be black within the same dimming zone cannot be darker than that same brightness divided by the panels native contrast ratio (those pixels are full 'OFF').

For an IPS panel, that translates into a 'darkest-local-dark' of less than 1/1000th the brightest bright within the same dimming zone.

For a VA panel, the 'darkest-local-dark' can be about 3 times darker - 1/3000th the brightest bright within the same dimming zone.

Increasing contrast makes blooming worse (push the brightest brights higher and the darkest darks lower but the panel was already maxed out).

Changing brightness has no impact on blooming - everything scales up or scales down together, but your eyes have a dynamic contrast range and adjust along with the change in brightness.
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post #364 of 368 Old 03-27-2014, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6311 View Post

Do not understand how you can get colors  " DCI 98% Color " 

http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-58AX800U

Panasonic has a special mechanism that fits panel color ? 

Or is it for just the movies that come with  " DCI 98% Color "  ?
How to benefit from the addition of color  ?

There is a thread on exactly that subject here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1506566/dolby-high-dynamic-range-initiative

and another here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1521141/2014-ntsc-100-high-color-gamut-panels-using-red-phospher
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post #365 of 368 Old 03-27-2014, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post


Changing brightness has no impact on blooming - everything scales up or scales down together, but your eyes have a dynamic contrast range and adjust along with the change in brightness.

The backligtht normally determines the black levels of a LCD.

Setting it to max can give a TV in the range of bright white of 400.00 cd/m2, but a light grey black of 1.00 cd/m2.
Lowering the backlight all the way down to the minimum can give you a dim white of 70.00 cd.m2, but a deep black of 0.02 cd/m2.

In theory the backlight seeping though the zones shouldn't be as pronounced or noticeable.

At least that's what calibrations for older FALD sets take into account.
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post #366 of 368 Old 03-27-2014, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post


Changing brightness has no impact on blooming - everything scales up or scales down together, but your eyes have a dynamic contrast range and adjust along with the change in brightness.

The backligtht normally determines the black levels of a LCD.

Setting it to max can give a TV in the range of bright white of 400.00 cd/m2, but a light grey black of 1.00 cd/m2.
Lowering the backlight all the way down to the minimum can give you a dim white of 70.00 cd.m2, but a deep black of 0.02 cd/m2.

In theory the backlight seeping though the zones shouldn't be as pronounced or noticeable.

At least that's what calibrations for older FALD sets take into account.

I don't know about older FALD implementation and how they worked. You are correct that absolute black level will be directly determined by brightness. The more important point however is that contrast ratio and the relative visibility of blooming does not depend on brightness - contrast ratio depends only on the native contrast ratio of the panel and the scene being displayed, and blooming in a dimming zone with 0-level blacks depends on the native contrast ratio and the brightest content within that specific dimming zone (which determines how much the zone can be dimmed).

Now if there are various setting of how aggressive local dimming will be (possibly tied in some way to the contrast setting), that is another thing. Deactivating local dimming will result in NO blooming because the entire backlight will be held at a constant brightness (so lousy but uniform contrast ratio over the entre image).
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post #367 of 368 Old 04-11-2014, 09:05 AM
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Ok! Their is a AX900! Check this out on comparing to the ZT60! http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1397194552
I confess I am a fan of FALD LED LCD from 2007 when I picked up one!
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post #368 of 368 Old 04-11-2014, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post


Changing brightness has no impact on blooming - everything scales up or scales down together, but your eyes have a dynamic contrast range and adjust along with the change in brightness.

The backligtht normally determines the black levels of a LCD.
.



Black is set with the Brightness Control. wink.gif

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