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post #451 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 12:25 PM
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Its not so disappointing to find out that sony is using IPS panel from LG .After all Apple uses them!!!!!. i can tell you that Any company who uses IPS panel cannot seem to pull out deep blacks like LG can panasonic and a few others who invest in those IPS panels just cant seem to pull it off even with there tricks ... I have LG Flagship full array 65la9700 and the the contrast is about a solid on/off contrast of 24,000:1 ansi contrast of 1,767:1 and they managed to pull out a native black level of 0.005cd/m2 and i brightness off 120cd/m2 which is plenty Dark & plenty bright!! i dont have to tell ya because its full array uniformity was great!!  NOt sure how bright dynamic range will be for sony but it better be brighter and darker then LG full array which at least they make SOME of there specs available unlike SONY who wants to keep everything a secrete....LG has not made the mistake sony made going active 3D in the x950B anyone who has seen passive 3d on 4k tv will understand......  Of course i have to play devils advocate here LG has mistakes of course.. from gamma balance to buggy CMS software to blooming in the corners ( which All has been fixed through firmware update) they have even manage to enhance the noise reduction. its the best 4K set on the market to DATE. usb3.0 h. 265 limited at 30hz only.. the only downfall is no HDMI 2.0 support. unfortunately given that LG could not clarify weather we would be promised a upgrade like the President of communication said plus the fact i had some banding LG agreed to a Full refund so i,m thinking of holding out on the Sony because its full array and hdmi 2.0 and there H.265 goes up to 60 hz.. But if it to uses LG IPS panel They better throw in every trick in the book because 8 bit panels is why people see bands..sony full array is 8 bit also which concerns me deeply when it comes to banding ... ONe main problem people have with the 9700 is the viewing angles.. because they have not mastered how to filter the so called nano LED.. contrast drops when off angle and haloing becomes very intrusive.. Again i dont have that problem because i,m dead smack in the sweet spot..  clearly i,m stating the benefits of LG and there weakness. i Hope sony has learned from LG achievement/mistakes especially if there using LG IPS panel. one thing is clear you can get these sets for 3-5k on the streets ....sony better price match with LG!! or people will lean the other way... 8,000 bucks for a 65 is idiotic marketing.. seeing as how the korean rival full array is 3 thousand cheaper!! sony will not sell many at those price points.. but i,m still curious what difference sony will make with a IPS panel this will be very interesting to watch unfold......

Is LG putting out a 2014 version of the 65LA9700 FALD LED/LCD with upgrades like HDMI 2.0, or is the 2013 version the end of the line as far as LG FALD??
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post #452 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 12:39 PM
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es LG poniendo a cabo una versión 2014 de la 65LA9700 FALD LED / LCD con mejoras como HDMI 2.0, o es la versión 2013 de la final de la línea en cuanto a LG FAL

sorry but what is the meaning of IPS panel???

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post #453 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 12:50 PM
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It's funny, I saw a 4K LG panel just today at BB and it did look very good.

What I found a bit concerning was the issue of 4K compatibility. A Panasonic 4K set was running a 4K demo via a USB stick. The salesman took the USB stick from the Panasonic (at my request) and we inserted it into both the Samsung and Sony 4K TVs.

No dice. Both sets would not recognize the content on the 4K demo stick despite the fact that they did recognize the presences of the stick as well as the file hierarchy. Now could this be due to some proprietary coding on the Panasonic demo? I guess that's certainly possible, but to me it's just a bit concerning.

I'm planning on getting a 4K camcorder next week and one of the things I really want to test is if the content plays on virtually any 4K set. If the camera only plays on Sony 4K sets (the cam is a Sony), I think this will strike a real warning bell in my mind regarding source compatibility.
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post #454 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 12:51 PM
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Iniciado por fafrd go_quote.gif


es LG poniendo a cabo una versión 2014 de la 65LA9700 FALD LED / LCD con mejoras como HDMI 2.0, o es la versión 2013 de la final de la línea en cuanto a LG FAL
sorry but what is the meaning of IPS panel???

Wow - interesting to see myself quoted in Spanish - hope I didn't say anything too embarrassing biggrin.gif

IPS stands for 'In-Plane-Switching' (as opposed to the other major class of LCD panel type: 'VA' which stands for 'Vertical Alignment').

In general IPS panels have a wider viewing angle and lower native contrast level than VA panel, but there are now many sub-variants which have delivered improvements in both directions.

Wikipedia is a good source of additional background information in case you want to know more...
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post #455 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 12:56 PM
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It's funny, I saw a 4K LG panel just today at BB and it did look very good.

What I found a bit concerning was the issue of 4K compatibility. A Panasonic 4K set was running a 4K demo via a USB stick. The salesman took the USB stick from the Panasonic (at my request) and we inserted it into both the Samsung and Sony 4K TVs.

No dice. Both sets would not recognize the content on the 4K demo stick despite the fact that they did recognize the presences of the stick as well as the file hierarchy. Now could this be due to some proprietary coding on the Panasonic demo? I guess that's certainly possible, but to me it's just a bit concerning.

I'm planning on getting a 4K camcorder next week and one of the things I really want to test is if the content plays on virtually any 4K set. If the camera only plays on Sony 4K sets (the cam is a Sony), I think this will strike a real warning bell in my mind regarding source compatibility.

Good catch Ken - I guess we are on the bleeding-edge as far as this 4K stuff...

The LG 65LA9700 did not get very good reviews, and poor off-angle viewing performance was one of the strongest criticisms. Did you get a chance to look at the set from off-angle and if so, I would appreciate any comments you could add as to whether those criticisms are warranted or might be overblown.
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post #456 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 12:56 PM
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post #457 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 01:11 PM
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Fafrd, I didn't really check it out to any great degree. I was there more to check 4K compatibility.
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post #458 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 01:15 PM
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Wow - interesting to see myself quoted in Spanish - hope I didn't say anything too embarrassing biggrin.gif

IPS stands for 'In-Plane-Switching' (as opposed to the other major class of LCD panel type: 'VA' which stands for 'Vertical Alignment').

In general IPS panels have a wider viewing angle and lower native contrast level than VA panel, but there are now many sub-variants which have delivered improvements in both directions.

Wikipedia is a good source of additional background information in case you want to know more...

So do you think that sony is going tou use the IPS panel in the x950B 2014??

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post #459 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 01:17 PM
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Fafrd, I didn't really check it out to any great degree. I was there more to check 4K compatibility.

Great - thanks. In case you find yourself in front of one again as you continue in your quest for '4K content compatibility' I'd appreciate any comments you can add as to off-angle viewing performance of that set or any other aspect of PQ that strikes your attention. As an owner of a Sharp Elite, I highly value your opinion of any FALD LED/LCD and whether it looks like it belongs in the exclusive club that the Elite has been the only member of up to now...
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post #460 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 01:21 PM
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Wow - interesting to see myself quoted in Spanish - hope I didn't say anything too embarrassing biggrin.gif


IPS stands for 'In-Plane-Switching' (as opposed to the other major class of LCD panel type: 'VA' which stands for 'Vertical Alignment').


In general IPS panels have a wider viewing angle and lower native contrast level than VA panel, but there are now many sub-variants which have delivered improvements in both directions.


Wikipedia is a good source of additional background information in case you want to know more...
So do you think that sony is going tou use the IPS panel in the x950B 2014??

I don't have any idea and there are probably others on the Forum in a better position to answer your question. The panel type really doesn't matter as much as the contrast and dark-level performance and from the reports out of CES, the X950B is one of the best FALD LED/LCDs ever made, with great contrast. Whether Sony did that by using an IPS panel and boosting its relatively weaker native contrast with a more effective FALD backlight or whether they did it by taking advantage of the higher native contrast of a VA panel, doesn't really matter as long as the end result is great.

Off-angle viewing is likely to be more limited if they went VA, but even there, it appears that the gap has been closing steadily...
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post #461 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 01:40 PM
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So to get a reasonably uniform, reasonably high-contrast panel we'll have to step up to the X950B for $4000? Wow.
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post #462 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 01:41 PM
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I don't have any idea and there are probably others on the Forum in a better position to answer your question. The panel type really doesn't matter as much as the contrast and dark-level performance and from the reports out of CES, the X950B is one of the best FALD LED/LCDs ever made, with great contrast. Whether Sony did that by using an IPS panel and boosting its relatively weaker native contrast with a more effective FALD backlight or whether they did it by taking advantage of the higher native contrast of a VA panel, doesn't really matter as long as the end result is great.

Off-angle viewing is likely to be more limited if they went VA, but even there, it appears that the gap has been closing steadily...

you are right the most important is the contrast and the deep darks on the TV _I can tell you because I have  the sony 4k XBRX900A and the XBRHX929 and I can see de difference between deep darks from 4k and hx929.

 

the hx929 is sooo better than 4k ..maybe i think the full array leds PEAK LED in the hx929 ...the 4k its only EDGE LED.

 

in dark esscenes rhe hx929 is excelent but in the 4k the black levels are greyish Brown.

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here is a good link on that
http://asia.cnet.com/lcd-types-tn-vs-va-vs-ips-62213690.htm

thank you for your tip is usefull

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post #464 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 02:04 PM
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LG will certainly make another Full array set but it wont come out in 2014 the whole 2014 line up ub9800 is edge lit. it seems LG drops full array every couple of years... at least that what i learned with the 8600 that was there first full array set...... i,m still waiting to see that LG 4k OLED hit the market.... it would be sweet if you can get one for around 10,000 considering there 55 oled was that price an it has now been reduce to 6400, maybe 5,000 street value.... its very exciting to see how LG prices the 4k OLED i mean for 10K that could be a game changer .......maybe im dreaming but what IF that tV was 10,000 sony would be crushed!!!! no one will buy a 8,000 dollar full array set if a 4k OLED is 10K .... hell i may pull the trigger for anything less then 12K that should future proof me for letssssss sayyyyyy idk....the next decade ;) lol more realistically at least 5 -6 years untill 8k becomes a reality....again that 4k OLED could easily be 20,000 but if LG made it 10-12K i,m in hell that only 4,000 more then sony 950B 8,000.00 asking price .... then again when LG first came out with there 9700 the web site price was 7499 seems sony isnt that far off but we all know they wont survive with those prices........

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post #465 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 02:08 PM
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So to get a reasonably uniform, reasonably high-contrast panel we'll have to step up to the X950B for $4000? Wow.

Where did you see the X950B for $4000??? MSRP on that 65" TV is $8000...
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post #466 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 02:12 PM
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I don't have any idea and there are probably others on the Forum in a better position to answer your question. The panel type really doesn't matter as much as the contrast and dark-level performance and from the reports out of CES, the X950B is one of the best FALD LED/LCDs ever made, with great contrast. Whether Sony did that by using an IPS panel and boosting its relatively weaker native contrast with a more effective FALD backlight or whether they did it by taking advantage of the higher native contrast of a VA panel, doesn't really matter as long as the end result is great.


Off-angle viewing is likely to be more limited if they went VA, but even there, it appears that the gap has been closing steadily...
you are right the most important is the contrast and the deep darks on the TV _I can tell you because I have  the sony 4k XBRX900A and the XBRHX929 and I can see de difference between deep darks from 4k and hx929.

the hx929 is sooo better than 4k ..maybe i think the full array leds PEAK LED in the hx929 ...the 4k its only EDGE LED.

in dark esscenes rhe hx929 is excelent but in the 4k the black levels are greyish Brown.

Yeah, that is the typical difference between a well-implemented Full Array backlight with Local Dimming (FALD) versus any edge-lit backlight (with or without 'local dimming').

The only FALD offering from Sony in 2014 is the X950B. This panel should have the dark levels you have experienced on the hx929 with the 4K resolution and detail that you experienced on the X900A.

So the good news is that the X950B should be one of the best LED/LCD TVs ever produced.

The bad news is the 65" XBR-65X950B has an MSRP of $8000 and the 85" XBR-85X950B has an MSRP of $25,000...
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post #467 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 02:17 PM
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maybe he means when comparing LG FALD to SONY FALD as of now the difference is 4,000 considering u can find LG 9700 for 4-5 grand and sony asking price is 7,999.00

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post #468 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 02:22 PM
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u know why they dont have H.264 or H.265 sony locked there usb on there 900A with Lg you can insert a UHD clip and stream it flawlessly... for some reason you have to copy the file 4 times and rename file folders just to play UHD on a samsung forget sony you can only use there garbage media player 

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post #469 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 02:25 PM
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Is LG putting out a 2014 version of the 65LA9700 FALD LED/LCD with upgrades like HDMI 2.0, or is the 2013 version the end of the line as far as LG FALD??

LG will certainly make another Full array set but it wont come out in 2014 the whole 2014 line up ub9800 is edge lit. it seems LG drops full array every couple of years... at least that what i learned with the 8600 that was there first full array set...... i,m still waiting to see that LG 4k OLED hit the market.... it would be sweet if you can get one for around 10,000 considering there 55 oled was that price an it has now been reduce to 6400, maybe 5,000 street value.... its very exciting to see how LG prices the 4k OLED i mean for 10K that could be a game changer .......maybe im dreaming but what IF that tV was 10,000 sony would be crushed!!!! no one will buy a 8,000 dollar full array set if a 4k OLED is 10K .... hell i may pull the trigger for anything less then 12K that should future proof me for letssssss sayyyyyy idk....the next decade ;) lol more realistically at least 5 -6 years untill 8k becomes a reality....again that 4k OLED could easily be 20,000 but if LG made it 10-12K i,m in hell that only 4,000 more then sony 950B 8,000.00 asking price .... then again when LG first came out with there 9700 the web site price was 7499 seems sony isnt that far off but we all know they wont survive with those prices........

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post #470 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 02:39 PM
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LG will certainly make another Full array set but it wont come out in 2014 the whole 2014 line up ub9800 is edge lit. it seems LG drops full array every couple of years... at least that what i learned with the 8600 that was there first full array set...... i,m still waiting to see that LG 4k OLED hit the market.... it would be sweet if you can get one for around 10,000 considering there 55 oled was that price an it has now been reduce to 6400, maybe 5,000 street value....

The LG55EA9800 is currently available for $4600.

If you are interested in OLED, I suggest you spend some time in the OLED Forum and have a look at post #341 in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1493578/lg-55ea9800-55-oled-owners-thread/330

If you think $4600 for a 55" 1080p panel is exciting, you go girl...

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its very exciting to see how LG prices the 4k OLED i mean for 10K that could be a game changer .......maybe im dreaming but what IF that tV was 10,000 sony would be crushed!!!! no one will buy a 8,000 dollar full array set if a 4k OLED is 10K .... hell i may pull the trigger for anything less then 12K that should future proof me for letssssss sayyyyyy idk....the next decade wink.gif lol more realistically at least 5 -6 years untill 8k becomes a reality....again that 4k OLED could easily be 20,000 but if LG made it 10-12K i,m in hell that only 4,000 more then sony 950B 8,000.00 asking price ....

When making statements like the above, it's always helpful to be explicit about screen size. So yes, if the 77-inch 77EC9800 OLED came out priced at $10,000, that would be a game changer (but it ain't gonna happen). And I agree, Sony would sell very few 65" X950Bs for $8000 if you could get an OLED in an even larger screen size for only $2000 more (but again, it ain't gonna happen).

If your statement is intended to apply to a 55-inch 55EC9800 (if LG has even committed to such a product), I don't agree with any of your conclusions. $2K more for OLED-quality image but on a screen which is only 72% the size - most would want to compare image quality before making a snap decision. And if the X950B deliver the near-OLED quality of image that was reported out of CES, I suspect it would capture more market share at this tier than the 55" LG OLED...

Please make screen size clear in your comments so we can better understand what you are trying to express.
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then again when LG first came out with there 9700 the web site price was 7499 seems sony isnt that far off but we all know they wont survive with those prices........

LG didn't sell any panels at that original $9700 price (which is why they are now trying to flush whatever volume remains in the channels by selling at less than half that original MSRP.

So yes, Sony's MSRP for the 65" X950B is 'not so far off' of LG's insane and prohibitive initial pricing on the 55EA9800, but I believe we all know that Sony won't survive at those prices (at least in terms of selling many X950Bs and making a profit on that particular segment of their business - Sony as a company will survive just fine through the end of this year at least, and then the future of their TV business becomes much more doubtful).
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post #471 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 02:43 PM
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maybe he means when comparing LG FALD to SONY FALD as of now the difference is 4,000 considering u can find LG 9700 for 4-5 grand and sony asking price is 7,999.00

Yeah, if he meant $4000 more, that makes more sense...

You can get the LG 65LA9700 for $3400 currently, so the cost to 'step up' the Sony 65X950B is $4600 or 135% (65X950B costs 235% the price of 65LA9700).
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Yeah, that is the typical difference between a well-implemented Full Array backlight with Local Dimming (FALD) versus any edge-lit backlight (with or without 'local dimming').

The only FALD offering from Sony in 2014 is the X950B. This panel should have the dark levels you have experienced on the hx929 with the 4K resolution and detail that you experienced on the X900A.

So the good news is that the X950B should be one of the best LED/LCD TVs ever produced.

The bad news is the 65" XBR-65X950B has an MSRP of $8000 and the 85" XBR-85X950B has an MSRP of $25,000...

Yes it will be a very expensive TV $8000 for 65 TV  ufffffff  I read that entered the market in June the 4K the w series will be in spring 2014

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post #473 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 03:14 PM
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Yeah, that is the typical difference between a well-implemented Full Array backlight with Local Dimming (FALD) versus any edge-lit backlight (with or without 'local dimming').


The only FALD offering from Sony in 2014 is the X950B. This panel should have the dark levels you have experienced on the hx929 with the 4K resolution and detail that you experienced on the X900A.


So the good news is that the X950B should be one of the best LED/LCD TVs ever produced.


The bad news is the 65" XBR-65X950B has an MSRP of $8000 and the 85" XBR-85X950B has an MSRP of $25,000...
Yes it will be a very expensive TV $8000 for 65 TV  ufffffff  I read that entered the market in June the 4K the w series will be in spring 2014

I think Sony is going to do everything they can to get the 65" X950B entered into this years VE Shootout in late May / early June, so it might make into the channels around the beginning of June rather than the end (which is still officially 'Spring 2014' - Summer 2014 begins June 21 biggrin.gif)

But yeah, at $8000 for the 65" set, it's hard to imagine customers climbing over each other to be one of the first to being this new TV home, isn't it???

If the 65" Reference Series delivers picture quality as good or better than the Sony X950B at a price that is half as much (or even less), that's the panel I expect may be 'out of stock' everywhere you look until the early demand is satisfied...
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post #474 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 03:33 PM
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I think there will be much difference between X900A and X950B mainly in the dark levels regardless of the panel which is used .

Sony promises an improvement of up to 3 times brightness comparated with the previous models

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post #475 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by HPX4 View Post

I think there will be much difference between X900A and X950B mainly in the dark levels regardless of the panel which is used .
Sony promises an improvement of up to 3 times brightness comparated with the previous models

Yes, a well implemented full-array-local-dimming backlight should be able to deliver better effective contrast with an IPS panel than a VA panel with high native contrast ratio but no dimming backlight...
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post #476 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 04:25 PM
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Yes, a well implemented full-array-local-dimming backlight should be able to deliver better effective contrast with an IPS panel than a VA panel with high native contrast ratio but no dimming backlight...


ok but i don't know what type panel will be use the X950 IPS OR VA

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post #477 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 04:42 PM
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ok but i don't know what type panel will be use the X950 IPS OR VA

 

Here's my contribution to subject matter - a link listing panel types and their manufacturers on all 2013 Sony tvs.

 

.http://uhdtv.ro/tech/101-ghid-specificatii-tv-led-sony-generatia-2013

 

note, x900a uses A-MVA

 

Couldn't find listing for 2014 yet

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post #478 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Yes, a well implemented full-array-local-dimming backlight should be able to deliver better effective contrast with an IPS panel than a VA panel with high native contrast ratio but no dimming backlight...


ok but i don't know what type panel will be use the X950 IPS OR VA

If you think the of-angle viewing sucks, it is probably VA, and if the off-angle viewing seems acceptable, it doesn't matter biggrin.gif

In any case, from all reports out of CES, the FALD backlight has been well-implemented and so the contrast and-dark-level performance should hopefully make the X950B a category leader...
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post #479 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by HPX4 View Post

 


ok but i don't know what type panel will be use the X950 IPS OR VA

Here's my contribution to subject matter - a link listing panel types and their manufacturers on all 2013 Sony tvs.

.http://uhdtv.ro/tech/101-ghid-specificatii-tv-led-sony-generatia-2013

note, x900a uses A-MVA

Couldn't find listing for 2014 yet

That's really helpful and interesting, but unfortunately it is for 2013 and does not include the X950B (which is new for 2014)...

When a similar list comes out for 2014, hopefully the mystery of panel type used in the 65" X950B can be solved!
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post #480 of 583 Old 03-12-2014, 06:10 PM
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That's really helpful and interesting, but unfortunately it is for 2013 and does not include the X950B (which is new for 2014)...

When a similar list comes out for 2014, hopefully the mystery of panel type used in the 65" X950B can be solved!

we have to wait...thank you for your contribution.

 

I bought a movie of spiderman remasterized in 4K ...I know that until today the blu ray players and discs can be played ionly 1080p but Do you think  that the difference is very noticeable in a remastered 4K movie compared to the original movie?

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