Sony UHDTVs at CES 2014 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 583 Old 01-24-2014, 08:33 AM
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Come on, you know me, I am not a tease........If I had pricing I would have quoted street price.......
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post #182 of 583 Old 01-24-2014, 08:42 AM
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Very anxious to see the 950B compared side by side with a Vizio P series later this year. If the Sony is going to cost double the Vizio, you'd hope to see a serious performance difference.
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post #183 of 583 Old 01-24-2014, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_hawks_23 View Post

Very anxious to see the 950B compared side by side with a Vizio P series later this year. If the Sony is going to cost double the Vizio, you'd hope to see a serious performance difference.

I agree chi. For the kind of money Sony is asking it BETTER have a serious performance difference! That being said. I know Vizio has come along way and has gotton better but I still have my doubts about them.
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post #184 of 583 Old 01-24-2014, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Darkknightman View Post

How did you find that out if you don't mind me asking

He's a professional TV seller and knows people?

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #185 of 583 Old 01-24-2014, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_hawks_23 View Post

Very anxious to see the 950B compared side by side with a Vizio P series later this year. If the Sony is going to cost double the Vizio, you'd hope to see a serious performance difference.

I am hoping Vizio can deliver on their claims, but I doubt Vizio can gain the knowledge necessary to display a picture with good quality overnight. Sony has been in the business for a long time and they have a lot of intellectual property from the decades of R&D. It's even taken Samsung at least 10 years to produce a "good picture" and Samsung's R&D funding alone dwarfs Vizio as a company. I hope to be proven wrong though so we can all enjoy cheaper SONY tvs. smile.gif
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post #186 of 583 Old 01-24-2014, 05:25 PM
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Ive got a zt and a Vt to last me, but, the IR is starting to get annoying. Never had even close to this type if IR on my Kuro. If the vizio or Sony can get close to the panny plasmas, I will be buying.
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post #187 of 583 Old 01-25-2014, 04:44 AM
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It's a shame World Cup 2014 won't be broadcast in 4K. The demo footage they have from Confederations Cup looks amazing. I would have loved to pick up one of these sets in time for the World Cup.

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post #188 of 583 Old 01-25-2014, 07:01 AM
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I totally agree. I would have major problems with the new 2014 line just due to the stupid edge legs.
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post #189 of 583 Old 01-25-2014, 07:05 AM
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The adjustable legs that could be moved just a little inward towards the center would be a good thing.
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post #190 of 583 Old 01-25-2014, 09:51 AM
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I believe it's been mentioned several times that the legs are adjustable and can be moved in a little to accommodate smaller tables. It's even on Sony's CES 2014 page under "The Latest Technology" and "Sound Design".
http://store.sony.com/-cms-ces.2014.television.landing.page;pgid=zeh.EzZeFPVSRpDNUFUX6Old0000p6ZJyAwH;sid=kUBEvYW7dlxDvddwxZXsuR2x_gwBzOr31DHXfLk6

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post #191 of 583 Old 01-25-2014, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterbrew2 View Post

It's a shame World Cup 2014 won't be broadcast in 4K. The demo footage they have from Confederations Cup looks amazing. I would have loved to pick up one of these sets in time for the World Cup.

Yes I was blown away with 4K football, it looked amazing. I heard in ASIA it will be broadcast in 4K, I could be wrong. They are setting up an UHD sat this year from what I heard. Too bad here in America we are years behind as always.

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post #192 of 583 Old 01-26-2014, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_hawks_23 View Post

Very anxious to see the 950B compared side by side with a Vizio P series later this year. If the Sony is going to cost double the Vizio, you'd hope to see a serious performance difference.
Going off the last Vizio FALD set, there was a HUGE difference to the Sony Side....... Forget the model numbers.........
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post #193 of 583 Old 01-26-2014, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjerina View Post

I totally agree. I would have major problems with the new 2014 line just due to the stupid edge legs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace of Space View Post

I believe it's been mentioned several times that the legs are adjustable and can be moved in a little to accommodate smaller tables. It's even on Sony's CES 2014 page under "The Latest Technology" and "Sound Design".
http://store.sony.com/-cms-ces.2014.television.landing.page;pgid=zeh.EzZeFPVSRpDNUFUX6Old0000p6ZJyAwH;sid=kUBEvYW7dlxDvddwxZXsuR2x_gwBzOr31DHXfLk6

It's more than "a little". The legs are simply not a problem. The TV will work on any normal table. Period.

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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Going off the last Vizio FALD set, there was a HUGE difference to the Sony Side....... Forget the model numbers.........

Using last year's models is simply not a valid basis for comparison.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #194 of 583 Old 01-26-2014, 02:59 PM
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Sony said that the Final match of the World Cup will be recorded in 4K atleast.
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post #195 of 583 Old 01-26-2014, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Going off the last Vizio FALD set, there was a HUGE difference to the Sony Side....... Forget the model numbers.........

But last time around, Dolby was not working with Vizio for the implementation of FALD. I'm hoping Vizio surprises all of us this time around (with Dolby's help biggrin.gif )...

-fafrd
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post #196 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 10:32 AM
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http://store.sony.com/69.5-diag-x850b-4k-ultra-hd-tv-zid27-XBR70X850B/cat-27-catid-Collections-CES-2014-TVs



Im curious as to what this guy will cost...

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post #197 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

http://store.sony.com/69.5-diag-x850b-4k-ultra-hd-tv-zid27-XBR70X850B/cat-27-catid-Collections-CES-2014-TVs



Im curious as to what this guy will cost...

What does this mean (from Sony Website): http://store.sony.com/69.5-diag-x850b-4k-ultra-hd-tv-zid27-XBR70X850B/cat-27-catid-Collections-CES-2014-TVs?affiliateCustomId=6146852&CJURL=http://store.sony.com/69.5-diag-x850b-4k-ultra-hd-tv-zid27-XBR70X850B/cat-27-catid-Collections-CES-2014-TVs&camp=CJ_DF&clickId=10396361&affiliateId=96g9vx76dncb&XID=A:6146852:CJ

69.5” (diag) X850B 4K Ultra HD TV
Item: XBR-70X850B
Display Features
•Triluminos Display : Yes
•Backlight Type : LED
•Display Device : LCD
•Dimming Type : Local Dimming



From CNET article: http://ces.cnet.com/8301-35303_1-57616738/sony-tvs-at-ces-2014-tripling-down-on-4k/

XBR-X850B series:
4K resolution,
Triluminous display
Another thing we loved about the W900A was its color, which seemed a cut above the competition, thanks to its quantum dot-equipped Triluminous backlight.
The X850B, Sony's cheapest 4K set, keeps that backlight but loses any kind of local dimming.

Is the X850B FALD or not???

-fafrd
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post #198 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 10:59 AM
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The 850B says this :Dynamic Edge LED backlight for amazing contrast


IMO, the 850B is just a refresh of the 850A, which is edge lit with dynamic dimming, and adds a 70" model. I think only the uber flagship XBR has FALD and will be costly. I know someone with a 850A XBR and the PQ seems to be outstanding, price just isnt the greatest.

If I change it has to be 70"+ and I have made up my mind on that because I will lose black level performance from the VT50. Only two I see right now of any interest are the 850B 70" and P series 70" Vizio.

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post #199 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 11:17 AM
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If I change it has to be 70"+ and I have made up my mind on that because I will lose black level performance from the VT50. Only two I see right now of any interest are the 850B 70" and P series 70" Vizio.[/quote]


My exact thoughts but feel the 70" Sony is going to be high priced frown.gif. Hoping the 70" Vizio "P" is the ticket wink.gif
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post #200 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 11:19 AM
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Well, and as a plasma fan, a lot of people keep saying save your $$$ and wait on OLED. I really wish Panasonic or Samsung would have put out a 70+" plasma in my price range before dumping the market.

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post #201 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

The 850B says this :Dynamic Edge LED backlight for amazing contrast


IMO, the 850B is just a refresh of the 850A, which is edge lit with dynamic dimming, and adds a 70" model. I think only the uber flagship XBR has FALD and will be costly. I know someone with a 850A XBR and the PQ seems to be outstanding, price just isnt the greatest.

If I change it has to be 70"+ and I have made up my mind on that because I will lose black level performance from the VT50. Only two I see right now of any interest are the 850B 70" and P series 70" Vizio.

I have not really been following Sony that closely, so apologies if these are stupid questions, but I am confused.

Is the XBR-70X850B the same as '850B' or is there another '850B' which is not 'XBR'???

Where did you see that about: 'Dynamic Edge LED backlight for amazing contrast'?? I can not find it on the Sony web link you provided...

Both the Sony site and the CNET article agree that the XBR-X850B uses the 'triluminous display' - is this a full array? Is it the 'Edge LED backlight you refer to above?

The Sony site claims local dimming and your above comment refers to 'Dynamic Edge LED backlight (which I assume implies local dimming) while the CNET article suggests that the XBR-X850B has NO local dimming - which is correct?

Again, apologies if these questions are dumb for someone who follows the Sony product line more closely...

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post #202 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 11:31 AM
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Triluminuos is related to color, not the really the backlighting or edge lighting scheme. The comment on Dyamic Edge Lighting is to the right under Highlights.

There is currently a 800 and 900 series XBR UHD in 65", one has speakers and the other does not. Same features as the 2014's. Thats what I think this 850B XBR is just a refresh. There are also 800 and 900 series "W" models, thats where it gets confusing.

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post #203 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

I have not really been following Sony that closely, so apologies if these are stupid questions, but I am confused.

Is the XBR-70X850B the same as '850B' or is there another '850B' which is not 'XBR'???

Where did you see that about: 'Dynamic Edge LED backlight for amazing contrast'?? I can not find it on the Sony web link you provided...

Both the Sony site and the CNET article agree that the XBR-X850B uses the 'triluminous display' - is this a full array? Is it the 'Edge LED backlight you refer to above?

The Sony site claims local dimming and your above comment refers to 'Dynamic Edge LED backlight (which I assume implies local dimming) while the CNET article suggests that the XBR-X850B has NO local dimming - which is correct?

Again, apologies if these questions are dumb for someone who follows the Sony product line more closely...

-fafrd

Triluminous technology is a type of backlight that allows more colors to be available for the LCD panel to use. Triluminous technology can be wither edge-lit or backlit. Only the 2014 x950b uses triluminous FALD. The 2014 x850b has frame dimming, not local dimming. Frame dimming basically means the entire picture is dimmed instead of local areas of the screen. In other words, if there is a black screen with white lettering in the center, the entire picture will be dimmed, including the white lettering.
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post #204 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

The comment on Dyamic Edge Lighting is to the right under Highlights.



So here it is - thanks :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Triluminuos is related to color, not the really the backlighting or edge lighting scheme.


I suspected as much but thanks for the clarification. Triluminous filter (or whatever it is) can be used will Full-Array or edge-lit and has nothing to do with dimming, correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

There is currently a 800 and 900 series XBR UHD in 65", one has speakers and the other does not. Same features as the 2014's. Thats what I think this 850B XBR is just a refresh. There are also 800 and 900 series "W" models, thats where it gets confusing.

Yeah, and the only set that appears to be FALD is the XBR-X950B, right?

So the CNET article was wrong about the XBR-X850B. It is edge-lit triluminous but it does have 'local dimming' (to the extent than the dimming on any edge-lit panel can be considered 'local :-)

Thanks for the clarification,

-fafrd
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post #205 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post


Triluminous technology is a type of backlight that allows more colors to be available for the LCD panel to use. Triluminous technology can be wither edge-lit or backlit. Only the 2014 x950b uses triluminous FALD. The 2014 x850b has frame dimming, not local dimming. Frame dimming basically means the entire picture is dimmed instead of local areas of the screen. In other words, if there is a black screen with white lettering in the center, the entire picture will be dimmed, including the white lettering.

Thanks, I think I'm finally sorting most of this out.

Still confused about the 2014 x850b dimming, however. If the panel only supports 'frame' dimming, then how can the Sony site claim: 'Dimming Type: Local Dimming'

If it is only frame dimming, then the CNET article is accurate and the Sony site is a misrepresentation...

-fafrd
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post #206 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Thanks, I think I'm finally sorting most of this out.

Still confused about the 2014 x850b dimming, however. If the panel only supports 'frame' dimming, then how can the Sony site claim: 'Dimming Type: Local Dimming'

If it is only frame dimming, then the CNET article is accurate and the Sony site is a misrepresentation...

-fafrd

I just checked their site. All the x850b models specify frame dimming except the 70" version, which says local dimming.
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post #207 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

I just checked their site. All the x850b models specify frame dimming except the 70" version, which says local dimming.

I just checked and you are correct - all other sizes (49", 55" and 65") say:

Dimming Type : Frame Dimming

Do we think there is any significance to this? Is it a typo or is it possible that the 70" has been architected differently? In any case, they all say 'Dynamic Edge LED Backlight' so even the 70" cannot be FALD...

-fafrd
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post #208 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

I just checked and you are correct - all other sizes (49", 55" and 65") say:

Dimming Type : Frame Dimming

Do we think there is any significance to this? Is it a typo or is it possible that the 70" has been architected differently? In any case, they all say 'Dynamic Edge LED Backlight' so even the 70" cannot be FALD...

-fafrd

There seems to be some confusion in terms of wording used to describe LED LCD back-light systems.
Do not quote me on this, but I thought that "Direct Local Dimming" = a certain number of zones of back-light, where "Full Array Local Dimming" = a greater number of zones of back-light than direct. How many zones are required so that the FALD can be given to a particular set, I do not know. For example,the Vizio P series has less zones (64 total) than their R Series (384) , making the R series a FALD set.



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post #209 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post


There seems to be some confusion in terms of wording used to describe LED LCD back-light systems.
Do not quote me on this, but I thought that "Direct Local Dimming" = a certain number of zones of back-light, where "Full Array Local Dimming" = a greater number of zones of back-light than direct. How many zones are required so that the FALD can be given to a particular set, I do not know. For example,the Vizio P series has less zones (64 total) than their R Series (384) , making the R series a FALD set.



Paul

There is confusion for sure (and some of it purposeful, no doubt), but I think you may be confusing 'zones' with LEDs...

'Direct-lit' is poorly worded to mean a smaller number of LEDs placed farther away from the LCD resulting in a thicker, less expensive panel. It can also imply lack of local dimming but that seems not to be consistent.

'Full Array' is also poorly worded to mean a denser array of LEDs which can be located closer to the LCD, so more LEDs than 'direct' and both 'thinner' and presumably more expensive.

'Dimming' of an LED backlight can be supported by either of these configurations as well as 'edge lit' and it is in the implementation of backlight dimming that 'zones' come into the equation.

'Local Dimming' ought to have some meaning in terms of 'locality' so that the number of dimming zones is high and the size of the individual zones is small ('local'), but unfortunately it doesn't work that way and is fudgified all the time.

So the Vizio Reference Series with 384 dimming zones certainly qualifies as a 'true' Full Array Local Dimming panel (FALD), but Visio claims that their E-Series panel with only 16 (or fewer for smaller panels) dimming zones is also FALD. Edge-lit displays that implement dimming also claim that it is 'Local Dimming' even though there is no way to dim a zone that does not extend at least half-way across the screen when the backlight is edge-lit. For an example of this look at the Sony XBR-70X850B which is the subject of this thread - it has a:

'Dynamic Edge LED Backlight''and is
'Dimming Type: Local Dimming' (unless that is a typo).

-fafrd

p.s. and you are correct, the Vizio P Series with 64 dimming zones, falls somewhere in between the 'true' FALD Reference Series with 384 dimming zones and the 'FALD-in-name-only' E-Series with 'up to' 16 dimming zones (and as few as 5 or 6 in some cases)...
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post #210 of 583 Old 01-29-2014, 07:00 PM
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The only models from Sony for 2014 with full array local dimming are: XBR-65X950B, XBR-85X950B.

All the rest of their TVs are edge-lit LED with dimming, these edge-lit sets do not have the full array of LEDs behind the panel, as the nomenclature suggests, the LEDs are located only at the edges.



1. CCFL
2. Edge Lit LED
3. Full array LED (with Local dimming optional)
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