Sony UHDTVs at CES 2014 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
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As expected, the Sony press conference emphasized UHD/4K, citing the company's involvement in every aspect of 4K content capture, production, distribution, and display. Sony's Video Unlimited service now offers over 140 UHD titles for download to its video server, and it is working with YouTube on a new 4K codec dubbed VP9 to allow more efficient streaming.

 

Sony also announced a partnership with Netflix, bringing Netflix president Reed Hastings on stage to claim, "The Internet is a natural medium to deliver 4K." Not sure I agree with that, but Hastings did say that with HEVC (aka H.265), streaming 4K would requires a bandwidth to the home of less than 15 Mbps. We also learned that season 2 of House of Cards, which is shot on Red digital cameras, will be streamed in UHD.

 

Of course, you need a UHDTV to watch the growing body of content, and Sony's got you covered there, too. New for 2014 is the flagship XBR-X950B series in 65" and 85" screen sizes; XBR-X900B series in 55", 65", and 79" sizes; and XBR-X850B series in 49", 55", 65", and 70" sizes. All three series incorporate the Triluminous quantum-dot illumination technology, HDMI 2.0 with 2160p/60 capabilities, and HEVC decoding. The X950B features full-array backlighting, while the other two lines use edgelighting. Also, the X950B and X900B provide extended dynamic range, which is said to produce higher peak white and deeper blacks, though I don't yet know if the panels use more than 8 bits to avoid banding.

 

Seen here are the XBR-55X900B (top) and XBR-65X950B (bottom). The X900B features Sony's Magnetic Fluid speakers. (Photo by Mark Henninger)

 

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post #2 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 12:42 AM
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Why Sony made its top end 4ks active 3D boggles the mind. Meanwhile the newer 850b gets passive 3d now.

TVs: http://store.sony.com/-cms-ces.2014.television.landing.page
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post #3 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 12:51 AM
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With Active Shutter we will see UHD 3D, while with passive it´d be only FHD 3D...i guess Sony wanted UHD 2D AND 3D for
their new Flagship model.
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post #4 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 02:29 AM
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There isn't even a 4K/UHD 3D standard in place yet; note that the 3D part of the specifications clearly says "2K only", even for the bad boy 85".

I reckon Sony only went active because Samsung did it on their current 4K line. It's a shame too, because I hate active, no matter how high a resolution it achieves.

Be interesting to see if Sony have fitted a proper full HD 3D polariser to the new X850 passive models at 55" and 49". LG's latest (though pre-CES) 55" 4K with passive seems to pass the full resolution, so there's no reason why the VERY latest Sony's can't do the same...
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post #5 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

"The Internet is a natural medium to deliver 4K." Not sure I agree with that
I think he is right. Seems Sony does aswell, with their own streaming sollution. Its difficult to imagine another physical format being competitive in todays market, even if it brings higher quality along with it.
I think we should be happy 4K content is being distributed so soon or at all. Im pretty impressed.
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post #6 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 08:39 AM
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I was holding out on buying a current model W/X900 to see what CES brings and I'm disappointed by the lineup for a number of reasons.

First is the Active 3D on many of the high end models. I'm alright with 3D movies and passive HD on a 4K seemed like a dream, but is now only available on the lowest end 4K model which would be fine, but I'd much prefer edge-lit local dimming to simple frame dimming. For the time being passive 1080p 3D at full resolution was the only thing selling me on 4K until much more content becomes available.

Second is the speakers on the 900s. It might end up out of my price range anyway, but the X900B speakers cause some sizing issues. I have a dedicated surround sound setup and 60" was my target screen size, but 60" is nowhere to be found. Perhaps a slim bezel 65" could fit in my setup, but certainly not one with additional size added by the speakers.

I was really just hoping for a X900A minus the speakers, but keeping the passive and adding some better HDMI 2.0 and HEVC support, but instead Sony seems to have thrown a feature here and a feature there at least in terms of the things I think people would care about (dimming, passive, no speakers)

I should probably wait to see where the pricing falls, but I might just pony up for a W900A since they are on sale now or wait out and simply get a W950B. I'd imagine the current W900A has better PQ than the 4k X850's will on account of the dimming and that is more important for 90% of my viewing/gaming.
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post #7 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 08:57 AM
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The new legs are a bad design choice.

With the centered stands you can have a tv stand that is narrower than the width of the tv. Now with these legs at the very end of the tv, you have to get a tv stand that is at least as wide as the tv. Who came up with this silly idea???
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post #8 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iatacs19 View Post

The new legs are a bad design choice.

With the centered stands you can have a tv stand that is narrower than the width of the tv. Now with these legs at the very end of the tv, you have to get a tv stand that is at least as wide as the tv. Who came up with this silly idea???

I agree. It seems like Samsung and Sony are locked in a bitter battle to see who can make the worst stand for their flagship TV.
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post #9 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGamble View Post

With Active Shutter we will see UHD 3D, while with passive it´d be only FHD 3D...i guess Sony wanted UHD 2D AND 3D for
their new Flagship model.

Not so. Their specs specifically say that the 3D will only be for 1080P. I agree with the previous poster -- this choice is mind-blowing stupid of them. They are providing a 4K set that can only do 2K 3D, which means there was no reason not to have it be the superior passive 3D at Full HD. Even stranger, they have smaller 4K sets that do have passive 3D and their comparable 2013 set had it.

What makes it even more strange is they seem to have a random mishmash of passive versus active 3D between their sets. Even within the same model #, some of them are active or passive just based on screen size.

Pretty big fail. Too bad too. Without passive Full HD 3D it's off my possibility list.
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post #10 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 10:07 AM
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Boy am I glad I passed on 4K last year and will again this year. Sony cant seem to make up their minds on the Passive and Active 3D thing for 4K not to mention there is not a lot of 4K material out there and wont be for awhile. Now they bring Netflix on board with hopes that their 4K streaming will attract more consumers? No wonder Sony is losing money with their tv business. As a Sony supporter its sad to see the direction the company is going, very sad.
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post #11 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 10:37 AM
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UGH Active 3D. I was hoping they would keep suit with last years model and have passive for the high end :-(. The only thing that makes it hard to not wait for the next gen, (compared to last years models), is FALD.
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post #12 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by as2onish View Post

I was really just hoping for a X900A minus the speakers, but keeping the passive and adding some better HDMI 2.0 and HEVC support, but instead Sony seems to have thrown a feature here and a feature there at least in terms of the things I think people would care about (dimming, passive, no speakers)

You're spot on, it's like they've split the existing feature set across the three new ranges. Madness.

Oh, and I agree about the stands: they're utterly horrible, and would be no use to me anyway (my 55X9 lives on a narrow hifi rack, I'd be **** outta luck with these new ones!).
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post #13 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 11:59 AM
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Ugh... I hate the side speakers design of the X900B series. At the very least, they should make them removable. A minimalist design is the key for large displays.
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post #14 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 12:14 PM
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The Sony site says the stand is adjustable. I think the "feet" can slide in and don't have to be right at the ends.
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post #15 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

You're spot on, it's like they've split the existing feature set across the three new ranges. Madness.

It almost feels like if money was no object it'd still be hard to choose a TV in their lineup. Obviously the X950B takes the cake, especially if its full-array dimming works out. Active becomes an annoying blemish on what looks like a great TV otherwise...

If the X950B didn't exist however, the lineup is simply baffling. The 1080p W950 almost looks like the most attractive choice. The reality is that money is a huge factor and as a result most of us live in a world where the X950s price/size rules it out. I held off a year in the hopes that the feature set would converge in an attractive way even if it pushed my financial boundaries a bit, but instead I'm left wondering if I should snap up a W900 on sale or just sit out everything for another two years with my CCFL...
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Does anyone have the overall dimensions for the new Sony's? Their spec sheets do not provide that information.
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On their 2013 lineup, Sony W8 had used LG IPS panels (along with Samsung, Panasonic and LG itself for the mid-line) with the passive 3D feature instead of the VA display on the W9 line.

Should they keep it:? I haven´t noticed wich panel their using, as there´s no info available.

The KDL-W805 models have as much reflex as a plasma display in order to get some contrast on brighter rooms... May be nice at night and on controlled light rooms, but they look like mirrors on daylight...
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post #18 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 04:30 PM
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My, oh my, what a bunch of naysayers !
Am i the only person excited by the news that Sony, for one, is offering UHDTV + FALD + HDMI 2.0 + HEVC support in 65" and 85" sizes in the XBR-X950B series ?
At this point after reading so may test reports of LED TVs and the poor performance of LED edge-lit models, i just hope and pray to find an UHDTV sized at around 85" diagonal that uses FALD, doesn't have any horizontal or vertical "banding", doesn't exhibit corners lighter than the middle of the screen, no magenta/green shading on white areas of the image, no dead pixels, poor upscaling, etc, etc.....You know, usually what a buyer expects when spending thousands of dollars for a TV.
I would gladly trade all this 3-D complaining gibberish for features which are actually meaningful and at the end offer that "looking - through - a - window" picture.
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post #19 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 04:40 PM
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Hey, I´m sorry for this stupid question, but isn´t active 3D glasses what we all wanted? Is passive 3D glasses like LG´s the best way to see 3D tv?
regards
Or are you refering to another thing?
Marco
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post #20 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 05:17 PM
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Played with the set at CES and it is amazing competing with OLED on blacks and contrast and beating it on color. Its a shame about the Active 3D though.
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MCaugusto I totally agree, on the 950 the active 3D is a small price to pay on an otherwise very exciting display. Problem is its likely going to be out of reach budget wise for many like myself and what I'm left with is all over the place.
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post #22 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSTNFAN View Post

The Sony site says the stand is adjustable. I think the "feet" can slide in and don't have to be right at the ends.

Correct.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by as2onish View Post

It almost feels like if money was no object it'd still be hard to choose a TV in their lineup. Obviously the X950B takes the cake, especially if its full-array dimming works out. Active becomes an annoying blemish on what looks like a great TV otherwise...

The demo set looked very, very impressive. It's the LCD I would buy if I had to buy an LCD (although I imagine the price will be astronomical).

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #24 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

My, oh my, what a bunch of naysayers !
Am i the only person excited by the news that Sony, for one, is offering UHDTV + FALD + HDMI 2.0 + HEVC support in 65" and 85" sizes in the XBR-X950B series ?
At this point after reading so may test reports of LED TVs and the poor performance of LED edge-lit models, i just hope and pray to find an UHDTV sized at around 85" diagonal that uses FALD, doesn't have any horizontal or vertical "banding", doesn't exhibit corners lighter than the middle of the screen, no magenta/green shading on white areas of the image, no dead pixels, poor upscaling, etc, etc.....You know, usually what a buyer expects when spending thousands of dollars for a TV.
I would gladly trade all this 3-D complaining gibberish for features which are actually meaningful and at the end offer that "looking - through - a - window" picture.

The thing is, if you strip out the ability to get Full HD 3D passively, what is the real practical benefit of getting a 4K TV at this point? There seem to be 84"+ TV's coming out from virtually every manufacture this year, several allegedly with FALD. Meaningful native 4K content remains more of a down-the-road promise than a relative. HDMI 2 will be standard for everyone's 2014 true 4K panels. To me the two practical benefits are super large set sizes of which there are many options and True HD passive 3D, since I will never waste my time with another Active 3D set again. If Sony was the only company making an 84+" product I might have to settle, but why would I if others are sticking with passive 3D on 4K sets?
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post #25 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Marco View Post

Hey, I´m sorry for this stupid question, but isn´t active 3D glasses what we all wanted? Is passive 3D glasses like LG´s the best way to see 3D tv?
regards
Or are you refering to another thing?
Marco

Early on everyone got excited about active 3D because it maintained the full HD resolution whereas passive 3D halved the vertical resolution to achieve the polarized image. But in practice Active 3D has been a mess because it's too high maintenance for most people. The glasses either have to be kept constantly charged or have batteries replaced. If they loss charge or change batteries you often have to re-sync them to the set. When they start to run low they can get out of sync and introduce flickering to your visible image, and they often run low before getting through a single movie. They are heavier and bulkier than passive glasses. There is no standard so you have to research which glasses work for your set and the manufactures keep changing their own standards so older sets glasses stop being supported except for third party options online. Many of the glasses use IR and have to be line-of-site. And, biggest typical complaint of all, they are EXPENSIVE. Often over $100 each for the official brand glasses, though much less for the third party versions. They were a total consumer FAIL but for a very small subset of die-hard fans.

Passive glasses are light, universal and require no maintenance at all. And they are basically free -- the glasses you get any time you see a 3D movie at the theater will work just fine. I have collected about a dozen for our passive 3D TV. None of the family ever bother watching 3D on the active set anymore, despite technically having a higher resolution.

All the 2013 4K 3D sets used passive 3D because with the extra resolution they could conquer the one and only downside of passive by still having full 1080P vertical resolution. So the fact that Sony isn't doing this for their flagship model basically makes its 3D feature useless.
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post #26 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 08:29 PM
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It's just great to see full array local dimming coming back to some degree. It really looked like it was being abandoned by Sony and most others (still is for the most part).

As for active vs passive 3D, a big yawn from me. I'm not a fan of 3D in any form.
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post #27 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
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The demo set looked very, very impressive. It's the LCD I would buy if I had to buy an LCD (although I imagine the price will be astronomical).

In rogo we trust.

Looking forward to seeing that set in person. Too bad they're not smart enough to make a 75inch version. So either an expensive 65inch or an astronomical 85inch.
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post #28 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 08:52 PM
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Anyone know if this new wedge shape TV's are wall mountable?

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Anyone at CES get to compare the X950B with the Vizio Reference series? On paper they look like the sets those of us interested in picture quality would be interested in.

55HX950 l SC-1522-K l SP-PK51FS l RW12-D l XBox 360 Slim l PS3 60GB l RNG200 l P31 LIVE:BPMURR PSN:BPMURR

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post #30 of 583 Old 01-07-2014, 09:57 PM
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I asked and the answer was yes, the "wedge TVs" are wall-mountable. Regular wall mounts too. Through the use of spacers or tilt brackets.

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