Speculation on MSRP of 65" Visio R(eference) versus P(remium) - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: What is the MSRP Visio will announce for the 65" R(eference) Series TV?
less than $3000 12 13.79%
$3000-$3500 29 33.33%
$3500-$4000 21 24.14%
$4000-$4500 6 6.90%
$4500-$5000 7 8.05%
$5000-$5500 2 2.30%
$5500-$6000 2 2.30%
$6000-$6500 1 1.15%
$6500-$7000 5 5.75%
more than $7000 2 2.30%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 61 Old 01-08-2014, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE (June 8, 2014). It's been 5 months to the day from when I started this thread / poll.

There is going to be an invitation-only Vizio event next week where many of us are hoping additional information on the 65" Reference Series including pricing is finally announced.

So with that background, I thought I'd update the thread. With the exception of the Panasonic AX900, all 2014 65" Flagship has now been released, and here is how it stacks up as of today (in order of increasing price):

  • Samsung UN65HU8550, 65" flat 4K ELPD LED/LCD, $5000 MSRP, current street off $2700 [this is a sub-Flagship, but is the 'flat flagship']
  • Samsung UN65HU9000, 65" curved 4K ELPD LED/LCD, $6000 MSRP, current street off $3400
  • •Sharp LC70UD1U, 70" flat 4K ELFD LED/LCD, $6000 MSRP, current street of $3500
  • Toshiba65L9400U, 65" flat 4K FALD LED/LCD, $4500 MSRP, $3700 street price
  • Panasonic TC-65AX800U, 65" flat 4K WCG ELPD LED/LCD, $4500 MSRP, $4000 street price [32 pseudo dimming-zone sub-Flagship]
  • LG 65UB9800, 65" flat 4K ELPD LED/LCD, $6000 MSRP, $4500 street price [this is the LED/LCD Flagship]
  • Sony XBR-65X900B, 65" flat 4K WCG ELPD LED/LCD, $6000 MSRP, $5000 street price [this is a sub-Flagship]
  • Sony XBR-65X950B, 65" flat 4K WCG FALD LED/LCD, $8000 MSRP, $8000 street price


In the US market, Samsung and Vizio are #1 and #2, so I believe the pricing of the Samsung UN65HU8550 ($2700 street) and the UN65HU9000 ($3400 street) will be the pricing Vizio is most focused on when deciding where to price the 65" Reference Series:

Vizio 65-inch Reference Series, 65" flat 4K WCG FALD LED/LCD, no MSRP yet (384 local dimming zone Flagship]

The poll from the month or so after CES indicated a 37% preference for a price range of $3000-3500 for the 65" Reference Series and I believe that will prove to have been the correct call.

With Samsung's drop to $2700 for their 'flat flagship' UNH65HU8550, there is probably an increased chance that Vizio could price the 65" R below $3000 (10% chance from the poll) but I believe that it is more likely that Vizio will view the curved UN65HU9000 as the Samsung Flagship the R Series will be competing against and will price at some 'brand/reputation discount' to the price of that Samsung Flagship.

A 10% discount to the current street price of the UN65HU9000 would mean $3060, so I think there is a good chance that Vizio may price the 65" R Series at $3000 ($2999, which I view as the lowest likely price) or they will try to go head-to-ahead against the Samsung UN65HU9000 which would mean a price of $3400 (which I now view as the highest likely price for the 65" Visio R Series.

I'm going to split the difference and come out with my forecasted price of $3200 for the 65" Visio Reference Series. Among other things, this price is exactly $1000 or close to 50% higher than the price of $2200 that Vizio has already announced for the 65" P Series.

If the 65" Reference Series is in fact materializing this year, we should know pricing soon, so I guess we'll have a chance to assess how good my crystal ball is biggrin.gif

=======================================================================
ORIGINAL POST FROM January 8, 2014

Visio has not yet published pricing for the new R(eference) Series and I'm curious for any speculation on the premium they will ask over the P series.

In the interview, they state that they have some logistical issues to sort out before they can finalize pricing of the R Series, and for the 120" model, this is understandable.

For the 65" R series, there are no logistical issues to sort out, so the issue of pricing just comes down to how aggressive Visio wants to be versus other vendors top-of-the-line 4K TVs.

The 65" P Series has an MSRP of $2200. The 65" R Series has an additional 320 LED dimming zones and a custom Vizeo panel, but pretty much all of the other internal are the same.

Vizeo charged a 50% premium for the 4K P Series versus the 1080p M Series, and if they want to continue to be as aggressive at the higher end of the market as they are at the lower end (and they can make a profit at that level), I would not be surprised to see them target the same 50% premium of the R Series over the P.

This would mean a $3300 MSRP for the R Series (which would win a lot of customers in 2014 assuming it delivers the promised performance). So that is my guess as to the pricing on the 65" R Series.

Now if they don't actually want to sell many of these (because they have capacity constraints on the custom panel, or whatever), they may charge as much as a 100% premium over the P Series (meaning a MSRP of $4400) which would mean that this Reference Series 65" TV was just an initiative to have an entry for the 2014 VE shootout with a shot to win the top prize, but they never really intended to sell any significant number of these TVs...

-fafrd
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post #2 of 61 Old 01-08-2014, 07:13 PM
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thanks alot fafrd for the speculation smile.gif

if they could offer like 80"+ with R series and aggressive pricing like $4k - $5k . then Vizio is the 2014 winner .
just take my money wink.gif
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post #3 of 61 Old 01-08-2014, 07:54 PM
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I want to see this poll for the 120" version. People have been speculating from $8K to $100K…
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post #4 of 61 Old 01-08-2014, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyy484 View Post

thanks alot fafrd for the speculation smile.gif

if they could offer like 80"+ with R series and aggressive pricing like $4k - $5k . then Vizio is the 2014 winner .
just take my money wink.gif

Agreed. 65" is too small, so a non-starter for me. At that size I would just keep my existing 65" or get a current gen plasma high end model. It needs to be 80"+. I could live with 120" too, but not for more than the cost of a car which it likely will be...
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post #5 of 61 Old 01-09-2014, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas View Post

Agreed. 65" is too small, so a non-starter for me. At that size I would just keep my existing 65" or get a current gen plasma high end model. It needs to be 80"+. I could live with 120" too, but not for more than the cost of a car which it likely will be...
same here .. am no way buying less then 80" TV ( using a projector right now 92" )

the 70" P series coast $2.6k
how about 80" P series like $3.5k ( R series could go $4k-$5k range )
its a trade off
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post #6 of 61 Old 01-11-2014, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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The results so far indicate that only about 10% of us (3 out of 24) believe that the Visio 65" R Series is only for show and is not intended to be a real product competing against the 4K 65" Flagships of Sony and Samsung for business at the high-end this year...

Anyone else care to voice an opinion?

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post #7 of 61 Old 01-11-2014, 06:13 PM
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I am not 100% convinced they will produce a "reference line" but it would be nice if they did.

To knock out most of the Japanese brands from the U.S. market they don't have to take them out of the high end, they just have to eviscerate their sales volume. The first two targeted brands are Toshiba and Panasonic, which at this point have no high end sales to knock out (or at least infinitesimal). What the reference product does is create a halo around Vizio that it has never had, so it's a good idea to try it.

The idea that a 120-inch set is going to be affordable is honestly laughably dumb. In theory, you could sell such a thing for $10,000 at a profit; as a practical matter they are most assuredly not targeting a price within a country mile of that. Given where competing products are being targeted, I'd guess Vizio might be looking at $40,000 or so. Anything less than $25,000 seems like a complete and utter fantasy. The likelihood of the 120-inch Reference set shipping is low in 2014, though.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #8 of 61 Old 01-11-2014, 06:37 PM
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I'm not a big fan of Vizio but if they can produce this FALD, 4K, 65" TV for under $3500 they will cause a huge rift in the display market. This should cause Samsung, Sony and the others to lower their prices to something more reasonable. I look forward to seeing the official price and reviews.
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post #9 of 61 Old 01-11-2014, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsegt View Post

I'm not a big fan of Vizio but if they can produce this FALD, 4K, 65" TV for under $3500 they will cause a huge rift in the display market. This should cause Samsung, Sony and the others to lower their prices to something more reasonable. I look forward to seeing the official price and reviews.

The 65" P Series is a 4K FALD priced at $2200, so the gauntlet has already been thrown.

I fully expect the 65" R(eference) Series to be priced below that level unless it is only for bragging rights and can not be manufactured this year.

In fact, I'm hoping Vizio has enough confidence in their 2014 Manufacturing capacity for the 65" R Series to price it at $2999 - that would REALLY take the high-end market by storm (and hopefully drive it to a higher volume level - world-class PQ for the almost-everyman :-)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

The results so far indicate that only about 10% of us (3 out of 24) believe that the Visio 65" R Series is only for show and is not intended to be a real product competing against the 4K 65" Flagships of Sony and Samsung for business at the high-end this year...

Anyone else care to voice an opinion?

-fafrd
I much believe it will hit the market Q4 2014
at that time competing some flagships like Sony and Samsung is about right ..
Sony and Samsung not gonna watch the show from Vizio and keep quiet !!

and if you look at the R series specs more of it like 2015 tech
the Vizio will keep holding their gold card for the right time ..

as P series still holding the market and competitive in terms of price and PQ with the current gear
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post #11 of 61 Old 01-11-2014, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyy484 View Post

I much believe it will hit the market Q4 2014
at that time competing some flagships like Sony and Samsung is about right ..
Sony and Samsung not gonna watch the show from Vizio and keep quiet !!

and if you look at the R series specs more of it like 2015 tech
the Vizio will keep holding their gold card for the right time ..

as P series still holding the market and competitive in terms of price and PQ with the current gear

Agree with you on everything except the VE shootout. I believe the main reason Vizio has introduced a 65" R Series is to enter the 2014 shootout (and hopefully to win :-)

To do that, they would need to deliver a production R Series panel by April to Value Electronics. And there may be additional entry requirements such as the model being available through one of more consumer channels..,.

In any case, the next four months should prove pretty interesting!

-fafrd
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post #12 of 61 Old 01-11-2014, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyy484 View Post

I much believe it will hit the market Q4 2014
at that time competing some flagships like Sony and Samsung is about right ..
Sony and Samsung not gonna watch the show from Vizio and keep quiet !!

and if you look at the R series specs more of it like 2015 tech
the Vizio will keep holding their gold card for the right time ..

as P series still holding the market and competitive in terms of price and PQ with the current gear

It will hit the market I would say July/August forcing Sony/Samsung to drop the price of their annual refresh of their line up (pre-2015). Like at the end of 2012 when Samsung introduced the es9000 75" and Sony snuck in the HX950 while many retailer's were still selling the HX929. I think like the OLED displays they will be relegated to stores with design centers like Nebraska Furniture Mart and Magnolia (California,Chicago and Texas) where it can be shown next the flagship displays. We'll definitely see the 65" while more expensive than P-series not as out of reach as the easily 25k 120".
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post #13 of 61 Old 01-11-2014, 10:52 PM
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Agree with you on everything except the VE shootout. I believe the main reason Vizio has introduced a 65" R Series is to enter the 2014 shootout (and hopefully to win :-)

To do that, they would need to deliver a production R Series panel by April to Value Electronics. And there may be additional entry requirements such as the model being available through one of more consumer channels..,.

In any case, the next four months should prove pretty interesting!

-fafrd
Quote:
It will hit the market I would say July/August forcing Sony/Samsung to drop the price of their annual refresh of their line up (pre-2015). Like at the end of 2012 when Samsung introduced the es9000 75" and Sony snuck in the HX950 while many retailer's were still selling the HX929. I think like the OLED displays they will be relegated to stores with design centers like Nebraska Furniture Mart and Magnolia (California,Chicago and Texas) where it can be shown next the flagship displays. We'll definitely see the 65" while more expensive than P-series not as out of reach as the easily 25k 120".
I agree ..
we don't even know how P series will work out against Sony and Samsung this year
as M series last year design to compete the top of the line market TV
and now we have the P series as 4k with very good specs and price

I think R Series holding its breath for what Sony or Samsung will come out with ( for their next move ) in witch CES 2014 says no move before mid of this year
so they didn't talk alot about pricing and release date of R Series yet !!

I think its a hard challenge for Sony and Samsung to compete with the price and quality ( P series ) .. while R series beast still waiting around the corner
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post #14 of 61 Old 01-12-2014, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyy484 View Post


I agree ..
we don't even know how P series will work out against Sony and Samsung this year
as M series last year design to compete the top of the line market TV
and now we have the P series as 4k with very good specs and price

I think R Series holding its breath for what Sony or Samsung will come out with ( for their next move ) in witch CES 2014 says no move before mid of this year
so they didn't talk alot about pricing and release date of R Series yet !!

I think its a hard challenge for Sony and Samsung to compete with the price and quality ( P series ) .. while R series beast still waiting around the corner

I'm with you there... The big unknown is how important the 2014 VE Shootout is to Vizio's strategy and whether industrialization of the R Series is far enough along that they have a chance to enter it into this year's competition (April, I believe). As a fall-back, they will hopefully be able to enter the P Series, but it is a bigger tossup whether that model has a chance to win (especially against the Panasonic ZT60, which has become the new reference standard).

The pricing they release for the R is really secondary to the release date and whether they have a shot to get the R entered in this year's shootout. No doubt they want to put their best foot forward, and the fact that they had an impressive 65" R Series to demonstrate at CES last week is reason for optimism, but only they know if they will be able to get production sets into the shootout before the deadline...

If they do 'release' the 65" R Series in time to enter the VE Shootout, they will need to announce an MSRP at that time.

I think Sony and Samsung are on their heels waiting to see what other surprises Vizio has in store for them as 2104 continues to unfold... Other than responding by dropping their prices on 4K (which they will not do unless it is life and death as it will make them look weak and like they are following), there is not much more they can do this year...

-fafrd
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post #15 of 61 Old 01-12-2014, 12:00 PM
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I marked the $3500-$4000 entry but I probably should have marked $4000 -$4500 as I truly think that the best possible price they will come up with is $3999. Oh and I bet they don't make it to market in quantity until October (August sea ship + ~ 8 weeks to get to retailers.

Just my predictions.

Personally I am in the market for a new TV this year and I hope their prices brings down the competitors because I personally will not buy a 4KTV that doesn't support 3D.
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

I'm with you there... The big unknown is how important the 2014 VE Shootout is to Vizio's strategy and whether industrialization of the R Series is far enough along that they have a chance to enter it into this year's competition (April, I believe). As a fall-back, they will hopefully be able to enter the P Series, but it is a bigger tossup whether that model has a chance to win (especially against the Panasonic ZT60, which has become the new reference standard).

The pricing they release for the R is really secondary to the release date and whether they have a shot to get the R entered in this year's shootout. No doubt they want to put their best foot forward, and the fact that they had an impressive 65" R Series to demonstrate at CES last week is reason for optimism, but only they know if they will be able to get production sets into the shootout before the deadline...

If they do 'release' the 65" R Series in time to enter the VE Shootout, they will need to announce an MSRP at that time.

I think Sony and Samsung are on their heels waiting to see what other surprises Vizio has in store for them as 2104 continues to unfold... Other than responding by dropping their prices on 4K (which they will not do unless it is life and death as it will make them look weak and like they are following), there is not much more they can do this year...

-fafrd

You could be right as i go along with you %100
shoot-out the game starts .. and what an exciting year is 2014
Its about time ...

forgive my English
thanks alot fafrd smile.gif
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post #17 of 61 Old 01-25-2014, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, with 44 votes in, it seems that 90% of AVS members believe the Vizio 65" Reference Series will be priced below $4500 (and close to 80% believe it will be priced below $4000...).

With nothing to do about the R Series for several months until additional information is released, speculation is all we are left with, so I thought I might as well troll for any additional votes...


-fafrd
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post #18 of 61 Old 04-16-2014, 07:08 PM
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No matter what price point Vizio comes in with the 65", it will have no effect on other brands prices. In fact, it won't matter what the price of the 120" is, they won't sell too many of them in this economy. ANYBODY willing to buy a 120" TV will be looking for the best picture and not concerned about price. If Vizio's BIG screen turns out to have the best picture, then they will sell the lions share of the big screen gems and only to a select few....relatively speaking. Remember, when it comes to big ticket items, they are all about show and tell. Mercedes knows exactly how many S-Class cars they will sell before the first one ever hits the assembly line. The middle-class has, is and always will wait for the trckle down technology and the trickle down prices.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRT View Post

Mercedes knows exactly how many S-Class cars they will sell before the first one ever hits the assembly line.

They most certainly do not.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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Until prices for the R series is released by Vizio I refuse to believe it will make production. For this year anyway.
Anyone know why prices were released for the P series and not the R at this years CES????
That's what I'm thinking too.smile.gif
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post #21 of 61 Old 04-17-2014, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post

Until prices for the R series is released by Vizio I refuse to believe it will make production. For this year anyway.
Anyone know why prices were released for the P series and not the R at this years CES????
That's what I'm thinking too.smile.gif

Optionality.

The 2014 VE Shootout has now been scheduled for late June / early July.

The Sony X950B will be in.

The Toshiba L9400U will be in.

Even the 77" 4

There are currently no Vizio TVs planned for the competition.

There will likely be a great deal of noise generated by the winners of this years shootout and if Vizio is still silent on the 65" Reference Series by then (and has not released pricing, for example), I would see it as very unlikely that the 65" Reference Series would materialize in time for Christmas sales.
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

In fact, I'm hoping Vizio has enough confidence in their 2014 Manufacturing capacity for the 65" R Series to price it at $2999

 

Wait a second.  Vizio is manufacturing panels now?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Agree with you on everything except the VE shootout. I believe the main reason Vizio has introduced a 65" R Series is to enter the 2014 shootout (and hopefully to win :-)

 

I think you're placing far too much importance on the VE shootout.

 

 

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Originally Posted by JaguarCRO View Post

I marked the $3500-$4000 entry but I probably should have marked $4000 -$4500 as I truly think that the best possible price they will come up with is $3999. Oh and I bet they don't make it to market in quantity until October (August sea ship + ~ 8 weeks to get to retailers.

Just my predictions.

Personally I am in the market for a new TV this year and I hope their prices brings down the competitors because I personally will not buy a 4KTV that doesn't support 3D.

 

IF they make this thing (a huge IF even now), I wouldn't buy it either.  3D is mandatory in my house.

 

 

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Originally Posted by TRT View Post

No matter what price point Vizio comes in with the 65", it will have no effect on other brands prices. In fact, it won't matter what the price of the 120" is, they won't sell too many of them in this economy.
 
That makes no sense.  Of COURSE it will matter what the price of it is.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRT View Post

ANYBODY willing to buy a 120" TV will be looking for the best picture and not concerned about price.

 

(????) Unless the price is low.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRT View Post

If Vizio's BIG screen turns out to have the best picture, then they will sell the lions share of the big screen gems and only to a select few....relatively speaking. Remember, when it comes to big ticket items, they are all about show and tell. Mercedes knows exactly how many S-Class cars they will sell before the first one ever hits the assembly line.

 

I'm sorry, but what on earth are you talking about?  This is not true.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post

Until prices for the R series is released by Vizio I refuse to believe it will make production. For this year anyway.
Anyone know why prices were released for the P series and not the R at this years CES????
That's what I'm thinking too.smile.gif

 

I'm guessing that they just couldn't figure out how expensive it going to be at that time.  They sure don't want to guess too low and burn themselves in the press later, and guessing too high moots the point of their announcement since Vizio is all about low prices.  In fact, is there any evidence at all that Vizio is even moving forward with the R for 2014?


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post #23 of 61 Old 04-18-2014, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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In fact, I'm hoping Vizio has enough confidence in their 2014 Manufacturing capacity for the 65" R Series to price it at $2999

Wait a second.  Vizio is manufacturing panels now?

That's not what I was intending to imply. But if you don't have capacity reserved through all of your subconns to serve market demand, you are not going to be able serve high unexpected demand at the drop of a hat. If Vizio prices the 65" R Series high, it means they don't really expect to sell many and don't need to have a lot of capacity reserved. If they price as low as $3000, it means they want to take the high-end market by storm and they will have lined up the manufacturing capacity through their subcontractors and suppliers to do so in advance.

Since I wrote that earlier quote, I now don't believe the 65" Reference Series will be priced below $3000 (mainly because of the integrated 5.1 Soundbar, which has a market value of $300), but I still expect them to price the 65" Reference Series below $4000 (if/when it comes out, if ever :-)

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Agree with you on everything except the VE shootout. I believe the main reason Vizio has introduced a 65" R Series is to enter the 2014 shootout (and hopefully to win :-)

I think you're placing far too much importance on the VE shootout.

You are probably right, and the way things are unfolding, is sure seems like Vizio has no chance to get the 65" R Series into this year's shootout (despite the delay to early July).
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post #24 of 61 Old 06-08-2014, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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It's been 5 months to the day from when I started this thread / poll.

There is going to be an invitation-only Vizio event next week where many of us are hoping additional information on the 65" Reference Series including pricing is finally announced.

So with that background, I thought I'd update the thread. With the exception of the Panasonic AX900, all 2014 65" Flagship has now been released, and here is how it stacks up as of today (in order of increasing price):

  • Samsung UN65HU8550, 65" flat 4K ELPD LED/LCD, $5000 MSRP, current street off $2700 [this is a sub-Flagship, but is the 'flat flagship']
  • Samsung UN65HU9000, 65" curved 4K ELPD LED/LCD, $6000 MSRP, current street off $3400
  • •Sharp LC70UD1U, 70" flat 4K ELFD LED/LCD, $6000 MSRP, current street of $3500
  • Toshiba65L9400U, 65" flat 4K FALD LED/LCD, $4500 MSRP, $3700 street price
  • Panasonic TC-65AX800U, 65" flat 4K WCG ELPD LED/LCD, $4500 MSRP, $4000 street price [32 pseudo dimming-zone sub-Flagship]
  • LG 65UB9800, 65" flat 4K ELPD LED/LCD, $6000 MSRP, $4500 street price [this is the LED/LCD Flagship]
  • Sony XBR-65X900B, 65" flat 4K WCG ELPD LED/LCD, $6000 MSRP, $5000 street price [this is a sub-Flagship]
  • Sony XBR-65X950B, 65" flat 4K WCG FALD LED/LCD, $8000 MSRP, $8000 street price


In the US market, Samsung and Vizio are #1 and #2, so I believe the pricing of the Samsung UN65HU8550 ($2700 street) and the UN65HU9000 ($3400 street) will be the pricing Vizio is most focused on when deciding where to price the 65" Reference Series:

Vizio 65-inch Reference Series, 65" flat 4K WCG FALD LED/LCD, no MSRP yet (384 local dimming zone Flagship]

The poll from the month or so after CES indicated a 37% preference for a price range of $3000-3500 for the 65" Reference Series and I believe that will prove to have been the correct call.

With Samsung's drop to $2700 for their 'flat flagship' UNH65HU8550, there is probably an increased chance that Vizio could price the 65" R below $3000 (10% chance from the poll) but I believe that it is more likely that Vizio will view the curved UN65HU9000 as the Samsung Flagship the R Series will be competing against and will price at some 'brand/reputation discount' to the price of that Samsung Flagship.

A 10% discount to the current street price of the UN65HU9000 would mean $3060, so I think there is a good chance that Vizio may price the 65" R Series at $3000 ($2999, which I view as the lowest likely price) or they will try to go head-to-ahead against the Samsung UN65HU9000 which would mean a price of $3400 (which I now view as the highest likely price for the 65" Visio R Series.

I'm going to split the difference and come out with my forecasted price of $3200 for the 65" Visio Reference Series. Among other things, this price is exactly $1000 or close to 50% higher than the price of $2200 that Vizio has already announced for the 65" P Series.

If the 65" Reference Series is in fact materializing this year, we should know pricing soon, so I guess we'll have a chance to assess how good my crystal ball is biggrin.gif
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I'll place my prediction in: vizio-R will never be offered.
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I'll place my prediction in: vizio-R will never be offered.

Duly noted (and consistent with what you've expressed in the past).

I'm 50/50 at the moment but I'm 90% sure we are going to know one way or the other with more clarity within the next 4-5 weeks.

No price announced by 2014 VE Shootout = no 65" Vizio Reference Series in 2014 for me.
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My prediction is that two models of the R series will be available, as promised, but they will be quite expensive. I voted $5000-5500, but maybe that's not high enough. Why would it be priced low? You don't get respect by selling cheap stuff. And if Vizio has production difficulties, well, the higher they price it, the fewer they'll have to make.

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post #28 of 61 Old 06-08-2014, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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My prediction is that two models of the R series will be available, as promised, but they will be quite expensive. I voted $5000-5500, but maybe that's not high enough. Why would it be priced low? You don't get respect by selling cheap stuff. And if Vizio has production difficulties, well, the higher they price it, the fewer they'll have to make.

Well, yeah, sure - that the LG strategy with their WOLED TVs. For the 120" R Series (if it materializes), perhaps that strategy makes sense but that is not the panel size this thread is focused on.

But for the 65" Reference Series, I can't agree with you. 65" is mainstream (65" in the new 55" biggrin.gif) and it is difficult to fathom why Vizio would have any interest to pursue a Sony strategy to price at the level that they sell no sets.

Vizio's main rival in the US market is Samsung. The street price of Samsung's most-expensive 65" 2014 TV, the UN65HU9000m is now approaching $3300. Explain to me how being priced higher than their main rival's most expensive similar product would get any 'respect'. You seem to be confusing Vizio with Sony or assuming that Sony's business model is what Vizio is aiming to mimic with their 2014 Reference Series initiative.

Vizio doesn't care about Sony - they care about Samsung and on the heals of Samsung, LG.

I don't believe Vizio is making the effort launch the 65" Reference Series to gain respect - they want to take market share from Samsung at the Flagship tier of the US market (where they have never had a presence before).

Again, the 120" Reference Series may be for bragging rights and chest-beating only (as you are suggesting), but I don't see any way that strategy could apply to the 65" R.
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I don't see a $3k MSRP happenening. That would only be a $800 premium over the P. I see ~$4.5k. If it is as good as people who saw it at CES think why would they need to go head to head with inferior UHD edge-lit sets on price? They have the P-series for that.

Best the Sony X950B for about half the price...
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I don't see a $3k MSRP happenening. That would only be a $800 premium over the P. I see ~$4.5k. If it is as good as people who saw it at CES think why would they need to go head to head with inferior UHD edge-lit sets on price? They have the P-series for that.

Best the Sony X950B for about half the price...

That's a given, but I don't believe that is what Vizio is aiming for. Samsung will probably sell more than 10 times the number of UN65HU9000s than Sony sell 65X950s and Vizio wants to take share from Samsung, not Sony.

At a similar price, without the 'curve' but with the Soundbar and a picture quality that looks as good on the showroom floor and gets the nod as being superior in most reviews, Vizio has a chance to gain some market share from Samsung this year at the Flagship tier.

At a higher price, it ain't gonna' happen (and even at the same price, Vizio has to overcome the perceived quality / reputation gap they still have versus Samsung).

I agree $3000 is a long shot and would signal the same kind of aggressiveness and confidence Vizio has already demonstrated with the 2014 E, M, and especially P Series carrying over to the R Series as well. That's why I'm sticking to my forecast of $3200.

Just look at what the P-Series pricing has done to the 4K Flagship market over the past few (outside of 'heads-in-the-sand' Sony and Panasonic :-):

  • Samsung UN65HU8550, 65" flat 4K ELPD LED/LCD, is currently selling at 46% off of MSRP!
  • Samsung UN65HU9000, 65" curved 4K ELPD LED/LCD, is currently selling at 45% off of MSRP!
  • Sharp LC70UD1U, 70" flat 4K ELFD LED/LCD,is currently selling at 42% off of MSRP!
  • Toshiba65L9400U, 65" flat 4K FALD LED/LCD, is currently rumored to be introduced at 18% below MSRP
  • LG 65UB9800, 65" flat 4K ELPD LED/LCD, gas been introduced at 25% off of MSRP!


The market at this 65" Flagship tier has shifted from $4500-6000 where it has been historically to $3000-4000 even before products have hit the shelves in many cases.

None of those vendors had any idea they'd be selling those products at those prices this early in the year - credit Vizio and their aggressive pricing for the 65" P Series as the main driving force for these early and steep discounts this year.

I don't see an argument why Vizio wouldn't want to force similar disruption at the Flagship-tier (and obviously Samsung is concerned about the same thing, given where pricing has gone with the UN65HU9000 and UN65HU8550 over the past couple of weeks).
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