Vizio Eliminates 3D at CES 2014 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 121 Old 01-08-2014, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I took a tour of Vizio's new lineup today. I'll discuss that in separate posts. However, there was one thing that all of the new models had in common: no support for 3D. The only 3D panel the company showed off was an experimental unit featuring Dolby 3D—and it was no match for the tremendous image quality seen in its new Reference line of TVs.

Vizio's 2014 lineup is really impressive, but 3D fans will have to look elsewhere if the feature is a priority. The question is this: Will other manufacturers follow Vizio's lead?


For its 2014 lineup, Vizio eliminated 3D support and focused on 2D image quality


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post #2 of 121 Old 01-08-2014, 08:56 PM
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Where is Vizio at CES?... They are not listed in the directory and online. Can someone tell me where I can see their TVs at CES?

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post #3 of 121 Old 01-08-2014, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I took a tour of Vizio's new lineup today. I'll discuss that in separate posts.

Hey Mark!

Looking forward to hearing your impressions on the new E, M and P-series! Most importantly, how has the shift to full-array with local dimming improved picture quality with respect to uniformity/resolution of light bleed, flashlighting etc over their 2013 edge-lit sets? 3D is not as important to me as having a consistent hi-quality natural looking picture.
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post #4 of 121 Old 01-08-2014, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Joshua View Post

Where is Vizio at CES?... They are not listed in the directory and online. Can someone tell me where I can see their TVs at CES?

Seeing Vizio's lineup is by appointment only. The company is set up at the Wynn, and it's true that Vizio is not part of the official CES show.

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post #5 of 121 Old 01-09-2014, 05:23 AM
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That kinda sucks. I like 3d playing gears of war 3 on the 360 was awesome
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post #6 of 121 Old 01-09-2014, 01:54 PM
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No buying vizio's in my future, at least for non business use; they still make great sign displays in an office setting.
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post #7 of 121 Old 01-09-2014, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

No buying vizio's in my future, at least for non business use; they still make great sign displays in an office setting.

Vizio also made the single most impressive TV at CES 2014, the 120-inch Reference Series.

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post #8 of 121 Old 01-09-2014, 06:59 PM
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As long as you do not want to watch 3d....
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post #9 of 121 Old 01-09-2014, 09:39 PM
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I'm actually tempted to buy vizio now just on principle, haha. I'm sure the inclusion of 3d isn't an expensive feature, but it is one I wish I didn't HAVE to pay for to get great 2D picture performance. seems like most of the displays with the best 2D picture quality have pretty mediocre 3D performance anyway... so I wouldn't mind if 3D either went away completely, or became a niche market

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post #10 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 06:42 AM
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Totally agree
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post #11 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Vizio also made the single most impressive TV at CES 2014, the 120-inch Reference Series.

Are there any photos of this available? Also, the TV on the attached photo closest to the camera looks like it's a 21:9 set, not sure if that's supposed to be the 120" inch or not.

EDIT: I just saw there's a dedicated thread for the 120", so disregard my question above.smile.gif
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post #12 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 07:37 AM
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Big mistake. I pray other companies don't follow this idea and start dropping 3D. 3D support is only a few years old, and many people are only now discovering it. Not everybody has rushed out to buy the latest 3D sets. Some people wait until they need a new tv to buy one, and are just now in the market for a new one. If they go with Vizio it seems 3D isn't even an option. Bad move.
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post #13 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Big mistake. I pray other companies don't follow this idea and start dropping 3D. 3D support is only a few years old, and many people are only now discovering it. Not everybody has rushed out to buy the latest 3D sets. Some people wait until they need a new tv to buy one, and are just now in the market for a new one. If they go with Vizio it seems 3D isn't even an option. Bad move.

I agree, good 3D is not just a silly gimmick that should be brushed off.

There are movies which are enhanced by 3D, and yes there are garbage 3D movies.

I like having the option available and I hate losing features.

2D/3D PQ are both important for me.

I've enjoyed or had more fun with some quality 3D movies than some 2D movies.

Avengers and Jurassic Park are both really impressive 3D conversions.

I was in the market for a new TV this month and I went with the Vizio 70" 2013 M 3D TV.

They still got my business, but I was disappointed with their decision to remove 3D from their entire 2014 lineup.

ENTIRE lineup, really Vizio.
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post #14 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 08:40 AM
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Won't improving picture quality, namely contrast and color, create a more life-like and three-dimensional picture? Isn't that what 3D is striving for anyway? I've seen one 3D film and I'm not overly impressed with the effect. There were issues with 3D anyway (half the resolution to each eye, dimmer picture, off-angle viewing, uncomfortable glasses, etc.), so I would rather see manufacturers focus on technology to improve the picture quality or enhance other features rather than keep dumping money into overcoming those issues. It (3D) is something that, honestly, most people don't give a crap about and have no interest in paying more to have on their TV, including me. If you want 3D there are plenty of TVs out there right now you can purchase or get a 2014 model from another manufacturer. But I feel the writing is on the wall for 3D TVs. Even the PS4 doesn't support Blu-ray 3D playback. Sony may be intending to add it with an update in the future, but who knows?

I am a 2013 Panasonic plasma owner and I am glad I bought my new TV in 2013 rather than wait, and I'm not complaining that plasma didn't even show up at CES. Technology is constantly evolving, perhaps too quickly, so we're going to suffer through tech that comes, goes, or never makes it to market. Better technologies and TVs are on the way, so enjoy what you have, that's my best advice.
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post #15 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ToonMasterTim View Post

Won't improving picture quality, namely contrast and color, create a more life-like and three-dimensional picture? Isn't that what 3D is striving for anyway? I've seen one 3D film and I'm not overly impressed with the effect. There were issues with 3D anyway (half the resolution to each eye, dimmer picture, off-angle viewing, uncomfortable glasses, etc.), so I would rather see manufacturers focus on technology to improve the picture quality or enhance other features rather than keep dumping money into overcoming those issues. It (3D) is something that, honestly, most people don't give a crap about and have no interest in paying more to have on their TV, including me. If you want 3D there are plenty of TVs out there right now you can purchase or get a 2014 model from another manufacturer. But I feel the writing is on the wall for 3D TVs. Even the PS4 doesn't support Blu-ray 3D playback. Sony may be intending to add it with an update in the future, but who knows?

I am a 2013 Panasonic plasma owner and I am glad I bought my new TV in 2013 rather than wait, and I'm not complaining that plasma didn't even show up at CES. Technology is constantly evolving, perhaps too quickly, so we're going to suffer through tech that comes, goes, or never makes it to market. Better technologies and TVs are on the way, so enjoy what you have, that's my best advice.

I've seen amazing laser sharp 3D many times over.

Having 3D as an option does nothing to decrease the work being done to provide pristine 2D images.

Yes, i've seen 2D images on Panasonic and Pioneer Kuro plasmas that were so sharp that they looked 3D, was definately impressive.

Still doesn't mean that Passive or Active 3D should just be eliminated.

I want more features for my money, not less.

Excellent 2D PQ is obtainable on TVs that also have a 3D option.

Why does it have to be one or the other?
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post #16 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 09:09 AM
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Original post says they left it out of their 2014 tv lineup. It didn't say they abandoned 3D technology forever. Calm down, if you're into 3D then you probably already have a 3D tv that you can use and this won't affect you anyway. Or get one from another company. Pretty sure OP also mentions an experimental 3D tv with Dolby. Relax wackers...

Not making 3D tv's for a year or so will not slow vizio down at all. They make amazing products at affordable prices. From the looks of it, they're going to keep the competition of their heels with these newly displayed models at ces.
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post #17 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 09:18 AM
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I also think that this was a bad move...I can understand that there are people that don't like 3D, but there are other people that do like it. There's no reason to drop the 3D feature in the entire 2014 line models, they could have leave this 3D potential public just content with some models with 3D, and the rest without 3D and everybody happy.
In the same way that there are people that consider the 3D an useless feature, I also consider useless to have a 4k tv when there's no content, when you need at least a 80 inches tv to see the difference or to be sitting 10 inches from the tv to distinguish between 1080p and 4k...
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post #18 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToonMasterTim View Post

Won't improving picture quality, namely contrast and color, create a more life-like and three-dimensional picture? Isn't that what 3D is striving for anyway? I've seen one 3D film and I'm not overly impressed with the effect. There were issues with 3D anyway (half the resolution to each eye, dimmer picture, off-angle viewing, uncomfortable glasses, etc.), so I would rather see manufacturers focus on technology to improve the picture quality or enhance other features rather than keep dumping money into overcoming those issues. It (3D) is something that, honestly, most people don't give a crap about and have no interest in paying more to have on their TV, including me. If you want 3D there are plenty of TVs out there right now you can purchase or get a 2014 model from another manufacturer. But I feel the writing is on the wall for 3D TVs. Even the PS4 doesn't support Blu-ray 3D playback. Sony may be intending to add it with an update in the future, but who knows?

I am a 2013 Panasonic plasma owner and I am glad I bought my new TV in 2013 rather than wait, and I'm not complaining that plasma didn't even show up at CES. Technology is constantly evolving, perhaps too quickly, so we're going to suffer through tech that comes, goes, or never makes it to market. Better technologies and TVs are on the way, so enjoy what you have, that's my best advice.

Improved color and contrast and better blacks has nothing to do with adding a 3rd dimension. 3D films can add an immersion that cannot be matched regardless of picture quality. I own a Samsung anyways, because I prefer the active glasses because of the higher 1080p 3D resolution, rather than the half-resolution the Vizios and LG and other brands use. But I still hate to see 3D get the shaft like this. They barely give people a chance to discover it before they drop it.

Just because you don't give a crap about 3D doesn't mean everybody is like you. 3D brings a lot of people into the theatre, and a look on the 3D section of forum.blu-ray.com shows there's lots of interest in 3D blu-rays.
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post #19 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Rjloper9 View Post

Original post says they left it out of their 2014 tv lineup. It didn't say they abandoned 3D technology forever. Calm down, if you're into 3D then you probably already have a 3D tv that you can use and this won't affect you anyway. Or get one from another company. Pretty sure OP also mentions an experimental 3D tv with Dolby. Relax wackers...

Not making 3D tv's for a year or so will not slow vizio down at all. They make amazing products at affordable prices. From the looks of it, they're going to keep the competition of their heels with these newly displayed models at ces.

This is the wrong way to look at it. As I mentioned earlier, not everybody goes out to buy a new tv whenever they want. Many people wait until their current tv dies to give them a reason to upgrade to a better one. So now anybody who is in the market for a tv this year and looks at Vizio won't even have the option of getting 3D if they want to. Many people buy a tv now and even though they don't specifically want 3D they discover after playing around with it a bit that they actually enjoy it.
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

This is the wrong way to look at it. As I mentioned earlier, not everybody goes out to buy a new tv whenever they want. Many people wait until their current tv dies to give them a reason to upgrade to a better one. So now anybody who is in the market for a tv this year and looks at Vizio won't even have the option of getting 3D if they want to. Many people buy a tv now and even though they don't specifically want 3D they discover after playing around with it a bit that they actually enjoy it.

Well vizio obviously isn't worried about it. And like the original post said, the have an experimental 3D tv on display at ces. Maybe they have realized their 3D technology is/was subpar and are in the process of making it as great as their current and these new tv's look.

I have two vizio's that won't need replaced for quite awhile so I'm not concerned they're taking a year off to fine tune their technologies. I don't think this decision is an F U to the 3D community at all. I highly doubt they won't come out with something in the future that will rock the world of 3D and all the current nay sayers will then be singing their praises.

More importantly, people will be talking about how beautiful these new tv's are all year long.
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post #21 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 10:12 AM
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As long as you do not want to watch 3d....

No doubt about it - the 5 people who watch 3D TV will not be buying Visio this year. smile.gif
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post #22 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 10:48 AM
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Isn't it nice of all the other TV manufacturers and studios that release 3-D blu-rays to do it for just me and four other people?smile.gif

Seriously though, Vizio isn't on my radar at all anyway. I really don't know why everyone is making such a big deal about this. Back when 3-D really WAS dead (say the early 90's) fans still found ways to watch it at home (field sequential); so quit worrying. Besides, we all know what is REALLY dead......plasma. (Ducking!)wink.gif
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post #23 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Improved color and contrast and better blacks has nothing to do with adding a 3rd dimension. 3D films can add an immersion that cannot be matched regardless of picture quality. I own a Samsung anyways, because I prefer the active glasses because of the higher 1080p 3D resolution, rather than the half-resolution the Vizios and LG and other brands use. But I still hate to see 3D get the shaft like this. They barely give people a chance to discover it before they drop it.

Just because you don't give a crap about 3D doesn't mean everybody is like you. 3D brings a lot of people into the theatre, and a look on the 3D section of forum.blu-ray.com shows there's lots of interest in 3D blu-rays.

Then we're going to have to disagree because I can't agree with much of what you stated here. Contrast will create more depth and realism in the picture. And I don't see people going in droves to see 3D movies. Avatar perhaps being an exception, but one could also argue people went for the spectacle and that the luster has quickly worn off on 3D. 3D is nothing new. It was a gimmick TV manufacturers pumped into their models in hopes that people would get excited about movies made in 3D and want to experience it at home as well. There is certainly an interest for it, but it is a minority of the buying public, as was stated already.

But hey, if that's your thing, enjoy it. No one is taking it or your cookies anytime soon. People are getting their panties in a bunch over this when 3D is still available in numerous other TVs on the market. It makes sense to not include it because there isn't huge demand, and removing it will undoubtedly reduce costs in R&D, production, etc. It looks like Vizio sees greater opportunities to set themselves apart by focusing on FALD and other tech. I'd rather my money get me an LED with FALD, better screen uniformity, and overall performance than keep throwing money at 3D when I imagine most people who have it use it for less than 10% of their viewing, and it's probably much lower than that. Whether you wanted 3D or not, you got it. Practically every mid-range or high-end TV had it, and there are those who would gladly save a few hundred dollars to get the great PQ without having that extra cost and tech added in when they will rarely, if ever, use it.
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post #24 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 11:30 AM
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Seriously though, Vizio isn't on my radar at all anyway. I really don't know why everyone is making such a big deal about this. Back when 3-D really WAS dead (say the early 90's) fans still found ways to watch it at home (field sequential); so quit worrying. Besides, we all know what is REALLY dead......plasma. (Ducking!)wink.gif

Exactly! People act like Vizio is the only game in town. There are other manufacturers, folks. And they're producing 3D TVs this year! So if you're in the market, you can still get one. So it won't be a Vizio. Does it matter? The story here is that other manufacturers may follow suit. So next year you can be upset with them too. It's only a matter of time before they pull the plug because it isn't taking off like they had hoped. If the market isn't there the 3D Blu-rays will cease being produced, Netflix and other providers (are there any?) will stop delivering the content, and TV manufacturers will stop developing it and adding it to their TVs. Not necessarily in that order.

I am a 2013 Panasonic plasma owner, and I bought my TV before Panasonic's announcement. I'm satisfied. I'm not going to complain about plasma's demise because I know that better options are coming in the future. Even with or without OLED, TVs will improve. Moving away from the edge-lit LEDs and adding full-array backlighthing will help tremendously, given they add enough zones. Plus, better motion handling and other improvements will be welcome.
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post #25 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 11:38 AM
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Then we're going to have to disagree because I can't agree with much of what you stated here. Contrast will create more depth and realism in the picture. And I don't see people going in droves to see 3D movies. Avatar perhaps being an exception, but one could also argue people went for the spectacle and that the luster has quickly worn off on 3D. 3D is nothing new. It was a gimmick TV manufacturers pumped into their models in hopes that people would get excited about movies made in 3D and want to experience it at home as well. There is certainly an interest for it, but it is a minority of the buying public, as was stated already.

But hey, if that's your thing, enjoy it. No one is taking it or your cookies anytime soon. People are getting their panties in a bunch over this when 3D is still available in numerous other TVs on the market. It makes sense to not include it because there isn't huge demand, and removing it will undoubtedly reduce costs in R&D, production, etc. It looks like Vizio sees greater opportunities to set themselves apart by focusing on FALD and other tech. I'd rather my money get me an LED with FALD, better screen uniformity, and overall performance than keep throwing money at 3D when I imagine most people who have it use it for less than 10% of their viewing, and it's probably much lower than that. Whether you wanted 3D or not, you got it. Practically every mid-range or high-end TV had it, and there are those who would gladly save a few hundred dollars to get the great PQ without having that extra cost and tech added in when they will rarely, if ever, use it.

Have you not heard of Gravity? That got huge publicity and great reviews by both critics and audiences. I saw it and it was amazing in 3D. Over on the blu-ray forum there are lots of people counting down the days to buy this on 3D blu-ray. Hugo was a great film and looked great in 3D. The Avengers was huge in theatres and blu-ray sales. Pacific Rim didn't do well in theatres for reasons beyond my understanding but in the Pacific Rim thread over on blu-ray.com there are lots of people who say it looks fantastic in 3D on blu-ray. I just bought the Wizard of Oz conversion last month and it looks stunning in 3D. In fact when I went to see Titanic, Pacific Rim, Gravity, and the new Oz film last year, the theatre had a pretty good audience. And I go in the afternoon on the weekend. Plus tickets are expensive, and many people stay home now and wait for the blu-ray. I do that often now. For the price of 2 tickets I can wait 4 months and buy it on 3D blu-ray and watch it as many times as I want on my 3D tv.

The problem is 3D haters think nobody likes 3D just because they don't. They talk like only "5 people" like it, like the above commenter joked. More and more 3D classics are hitting 3D blu-ray. House of Wax came out last year and looks amazing since it was filmed so well in 3D (like most older 50's 3D films were). Amityville 3D came out last year by Shout Factory on 3D blu-ray. Creature from the Black Lagoon and Dial M for Murder. They're working on Kiss Me Kate next. For those that enjoy it, there's lots to be excited about for home 3D. If you don't like it, fine, but there are more fans of this technology than you think. It's not just a gimmick when it's used well. Even as a gimmick it can be fun.

People are upset in here because Vizio is dropping 3D entirely form their entire 2014 lineup. It would be one thing if some models had it and some didn't to lower cost. But they're not even offering any new models with 3D as an option. I have a good selection of 3D blu-rays at this point, as many people do, and I certainly would not buy a new tv if I needed one that didn't support 3D. People buy into this 3D tech and buy 3D blu-rays and now some manufacturers don't even want to bother to support the format already.
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post #26 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 11:54 AM
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Certainly you don't think 3D was going to be supported forever, do you?

Those movies you mentioned were available to see in theaters in 2D as well. They made a lot of bank at the box office, but it wasn't because they were in 3D, and I know you weren't saying they made money just because of 3D, but that they were big screen spectacles that probably lend well to 3D (or were shot in 3D, IDK). I saw The Avengers in 2D and it looked great, despite not being in 3D. I enjoyed the experience and I bought the 2D Blu-ray.

Theaters probably love it because they can charge more for the 3D movie. Again, if that's your thing, go for it. The push seems to be glasses-free 3D because, let's face it, people don't like wearing glasses. And if you do wear glasses, and many people do (including me--sometimes), putting on the 3D glasses over your glasses isn't comfortable and diminishes the "joy factor" while watching. I stand by my previous statements that 3D is a gimmick and that most people don't want or use 3D. It's likely a very vocal minority. If 3D is your thing, you can still enjoy it, just don't buy a 2014 Vizio.
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post #27 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 12:25 PM
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To me 3D is essential when buying a new TV, as is 4K. At this point I wouldn't even for a second consider a set that lacks one or both of these features.
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Originally Posted by ToonMasterTim View Post

The push seems to be glasses-free 3D because, let's face it, people don't like wearing glasses.
Last year, American consumers spent $2.3 billion on nonprescription sunglasses.
[...]
The 260 million pairs of sunglasses sold include those bought from street vendors and at flea markets, as well as glasses purchased at drugstores, supermarkets, and boutiques.
http://www.csmonitor.com/1994/0809/09013.html/%28page%29/2
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post #28 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_TC View Post

To me 3D is essential when buying a new TV, as is 4K. At this point I wouldn't even for a second consider a set that lacks one or both of these features.
Last year, American consumers spent $2.3 billion on nonprescription sunglasses.
[...]
The 260 million pairs of sunglasses sold include those bought from street vendors and at flea markets, as well as glasses purchased at drugstores, supermarkets, and boutiques.
http://www.csmonitor.com/1994/0809/09013.html/%28page%29/2

That includes sunglasses, which people often need when going to the beach, driving, or conducting other outdoor activities. And it includes non-prescription (reading) glasses for those who don't have insurance or for some reason don't see the optometrist, like my parents. I'm not sure what your point is in posting the article. I suppose it is meant to argue the point that people don't like wearing glasses. I suppose I could link to an article like this one that says, "more than 700,000 LASIK procedures are performed each year; this number was obtained from the American Society for Cataract and Refractive Surgery's eye surgery education council." and argue that people get this surgery because they don't like wearing glasses. My wife wore glasses all her life and was delighted to have LASIK so she wouldn't have to wear glasses or contacts and deal with the costs associated with them. The point I was stating is that wearing 3D glasses in addition to normal glasses (prescription or not) isn't ideal. Having to wear the glasses is a very common complaint I see regarding 3D. It bothers some, it doesn't others. No doubt.
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post #29 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 12:55 PM
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I hear people whine all the time about having to wear glasses for 95 minutes during a 3D film, but then they go out and stick earbuds in their ears or wear headphones for hours to listen to music, and people can't seem to walk in public without holding a phone and staring at it as they go about their business. Hilarious. They claim 3D glasses are a big inconvenience while walking around like they're half android with all their electronic gadgets attached to themselves. I wear prescription glasses, and wearing 3D glasses over them is a minor annoyance that isn't a big deal to me considering how much I enjoy a good 3D film. People who complain about poor 3D are often basing it on a single bad experience with one poorly done 3D film. People have one bad experience because the 3D was poor and they'll never give 3D another chance, which is a shame. I've seen some mediocre 3D films for sure and some bad ones, but most of the newer 3D stuff is excellent. The conversions like Avengers, Pacific Rim, Gravity, Wizard of Oz, and Titanic are amazing, and rivals films shot with true 3D equipment.
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post #30 of 121 Old 01-10-2014, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I hear people whine all the time about having to wear glasses for 95 minutes during a 3D film, but then they go out and stick earbuds in their ears or wear headphones for hours to listen to music, and people can't seem to walk in public without holding a phone and staring at it as they go about their business. Hilarious. They claim 3D glasses are a big inconvenience while walking around like they're half android with all their electronic gadgets attached to themselves. I wear prescription glasses, and wearing 3D glasses over them is a minor annoyance that isn't a big deal to me considering how much I enjoy a good 3D film. People who complain about poor 3D are often basing it on a single bad experience with one poorly done 3D film. People have one bad experience because the 3D was poor and they'll never give 3D another chance, which is a shame. I've seen some mediocre 3D films for sure and some bad ones, but most of the newer 3D stuff is excellent. The conversions like Avengers, Pacific Rim, Gravity, Wizard of Oz, and Titanic are amazing, and rivals films shot with true 3D equipment.

eagle_2, your samsung F8000 is active 3d?

In that case, can you tell me is you have had or tried the passive 3d? lots of differences? I have read that the active 3d for example in a plasma, makes the image very dark...

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