Vizio 120" Reference Series UHDTV at CES 2014 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 114 Old 01-18-2014, 01:55 PM
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Custom-shmustom. The only way to realistically produce a 120-inch panel is on Sharp's 10G fab. That it doesn't show up for purchase for others should surprise no one. I'm sure it's not really in "production" yet. But that doesn't mean they couldn't run the few thousand (max) they would need to satisfy Vizio if this product gets a greenlight (which is unlikely in 2014).

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #92 of 114 Old 01-18-2014, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Custom-shmustom. The only way to realistically produce a 120-inch panel is on Sharp's 10G fab. That it doesn't show up for purchase for others should surprise no one. I'm sure it's not really in "production" yet. But that doesn't mean they couldn't run the few thousand (max) they would need to satisfy Vizio if this product gets a greenlight (which is unlikely in 2014).

Do you think it is safe to assume that the same fab is providing the custom panels for both the 120" and 65" R Series panels?

-fafrd

p.s. also, do you know of any other panels announced out of CES that are designed to support rec. 2020?
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post #93 of 114 Old 01-19-2014, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Do you think it is safe to assume that the same fab is providing the custom panels for both the 120" and 65" R Series panels?

Doubtful.

No fab is actually especially good for making 65" panels, but there is no evidence at all Sharp makes them at Sakai, which is great at making 60s and 70s. (And the 120s are almost certainly being test fabbed by using a 2 x 2 60 piece of a the 10G class in a 2-up config).

LG makes 65s on an 8G line and supplies Vizio (I believe)... Any tier-1 maker that isn't Sharp could be the source of the panels.
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p.s. also, do you know of any other panels announced out of CES that are designed to support rec. 2020?

I didn't really pay much attention to it. I'm skeptical about sources, so was less concerned about displays....

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #94 of 114 Old 01-19-2014, 09:23 PM
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post #95 of 114 Old 01-28-2014, 10:07 AM
 
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Reference Series UHDTV
When sold to the public ???

If you have connections to VIZIO ask them
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post #96 of 114 Old 01-28-2014, 01:06 PM
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Somewhere here I read that the 120" must be comprised of 2 60" panels. If so, is there a visible line of demarcation between them, running vertically down the middle of the picture?

b

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post #97 of 114 Old 01-28-2014, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Somewhere here I read that the 120" must be comprised of 2 60" panels. If so, is there a visible line of demarcation between them, running vertically down the middle of the picture?

b

Four screens actually.

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post #98 of 114 Old 01-28-2014, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Somewhere here I read that the 120" must be comprised of 2 60" panels. If so, is there a visible line of demarcation between them, running vertically down the middle of the picture?

b

As already stated, a 120" panel requires the area of 4 60" panels (not 2). And there is no 'line of demarcation' between them. Think about printing a photo 4-to-a-page (4-1/4"x5-1/2") or full-page (8-1/2"x11"). A sheet of glass that would normally be sliced into quarters once 'printed' is instead left whole...

-fafrd
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post #99 of 114 Old 01-28-2014, 01:37 PM
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Gotcha. I misread it and didn't catch that it is simply talking about the area needed. Yeah, "2 60" panels" didn't quite ring true for me either.

That is one giant piece of glass!

eek.gif

Wish I had heard of it earlier and that it was not actually at the show but at the Wynn, and by invitation only. Next year I am going to allow for more surprises!

b

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post #100 of 114 Old 01-28-2014, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Gotcha. I misread it and didn't catch that it is simply talking about the area needed. Yeah, "2 60" panels" didn't quite ring true for me either.

That is one giant piece of glass!

eek.gif

Wish I had heard of it earlier and that it was not actually at the show but at the Wynn, and by invitation only. Next year I am going to allow for more surprises!

b

Yeah, tell me about it! It's basically 5'x8-3/4' - bigger than a full sheet of plywood!

I have sympathy for Vizio when they say that they have a few logistical challenges to sort out before they can commit the delivery date for the 120" panel...

-fafrd
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post #101 of 114 Old 01-28-2014, 08:32 PM
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It's made on a sheet that would normally be cut into 8 60-inch TVs but is instead cut into 2 120-inch TVs... The sheet normally runs 2 x 4... In this case, it runs 1 x 2.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #102 of 114 Old 01-28-2014, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It's made on a sheet that would normally be cut into 8 60-inch TVs but is instead cut into 2 120-inch TVs... The sheet normally runs 2 x 4... In this case, it runs 1 x 2.

If Vizio truly wanted to, this could be a sub $10k product, or at the very least a follow up model with a few corners cut could manage it next year. This may shake up the market considerably, or all the other manufacturers might just ignore it. Sharp's 70" and above models have done little to force down the prices from the other big names sadly.

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post #103 of 114 Old 01-28-2014, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

p.s. also, do you know of any other panels announced out of CES that are designed to support rec. 2020?

The Samsung HU9000 and HU8500 have a new color engine that is estimated to reach 70-80% of the Rec. 2020 standard. However, both of the Samsungs use an 8 bit panel rather than 10 or 12 bit, so it should be interesting to see how they compare to the Vizio as far as color.

The Sony TVs with Triluminos are also able to surpass Rec. 709 but there is no report on how close they can get to Rec. 2020.
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post #104 of 114 Old 02-13-2014, 06:35 PM
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* Hope this set sells for under $20,00. wink.gif
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post #105 of 114 Old 03-08-2014, 10:27 PM
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Does anyone have the actual panel measurements for the R-series 120"?
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post #106 of 114 Old 03-09-2014, 02:41 PM
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Does anyone have the actual panel measurements for the R-series 120"?

No information at all on the R-Series other than what Vizio has posted on the Vizio/CES website: http://ces.vizio.com/

If you are waiting for a 120" Vizio Reference, I wouldn't hold my breath - if this TV sees the light of day before Black Friday it will be a minor miracle...
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post #107 of 114 Old 03-10-2014, 04:02 AM
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Nope it will be out for Football season.
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post #108 of 114 Old 05-16-2014, 09:58 PM
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Found it 74.8” H x 106.9” W.
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post #109 of 114 Old 05-17-2014, 01:06 AM
 
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Talk and promises and no launch date   ?

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post #110 of 114 Old 05-17-2014, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsegt View Post

The Samsung HU9000 and HU8500 have a new color engine that is estimated to reach 70-80% of the Rec. 2020 standard. However, both of the Samsungs use an 8 bit panel rather than 10 or 12 bit, so it should be interesting to see how they compare to the Vizio as far as color.

The Sony TVs with Triluminos are also able to surpass Rec. 709 but there is no report on how close they can get to Rec. 2020.

If you want rec 2020 4.2.2. you will need a 10 bit panel.
8 bit panel will only give you 4.2.0 at rec 2020.
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post #111 of 114 Old 05-17-2014, 08:22 AM
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If you want rec 2020 4.2.2. you will need a 10 bit panel.
8 bit panel will only give you 4.2.0 at rec 2020.
What!?!?!? The color primaries define the color space. Those are a function of the backlight and the color filter and have nothing to do with the bit depth. You could have a 1 bit panel that's rec2020.

Further, you don't seem to understand what 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 color are. They don't have anything to do with the LCD, drivers, or bit depth of the panel. It deals with the chroma resolution of the input video signal in comparison to the luma resolution.
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post #112 of 114 Old 05-17-2014, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

What!?!?!? The color primaries define the color space. Those are a function of the backlight and the color filter and have nothing to do with the bit depth. You could have a 1 bit panel that's rec2020.

Further, you don't seem to understand what 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 color are. They don't have anything to do with the LCD, drivers, or bit depth of the panel. It deals with the chroma resolution of the input video signal in comparison to the luma resolution.
Try this: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?subaction=showfull&id=1366264710
Dolby vision needs 10 bit panels

The Reference series was in a separate area, so no side-by-side comparison was possible. Still, it's easy to say the Reference series looked much better, at least being fed native UHD content that had been graded for the expanded dynamic range and color gamut. Vizio did not show it displaying conventionally graded content, with which the P series looked mighty fine.

Sony was showing its own HDR technology, not Dolby Vision, and it looked quite good from a cursory examination. The problem there is that the panel is still 8-bit, and I don't know if the studios will grade content for its capabilities specifically. The advantage of Dolby Vision is that the extra info beyond conventional dynamic range and gamut is encoded as metadata and can be ignored by TVs that do not have those capabilities. I don't know if the Sony HDR system works that way or not, or even if Sony has developed an encoding scheme that allows content to be graded for it. If so, what happens if that content is sent to a conventional TV? I don't know.
Scott Wilkinson

I have a Samsung FALD LED 10 bit panel from 2007 and Samsung went back to 8 bit panels with rec 709 not offering an advantage with a 10 bit panel.
Cheaper to make a 8 bit panel!
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post #113 of 114 Old 05-17-2014, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 6athome View Post

Try this: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?subaction=showfull&id=1366264710
Dolby vision needs 10 bit panels

The Reference series was in a separate area, so no side-by-side comparison was possible. Still, it's easy to say the Reference series looked much better, at least being fed native UHD content that had been graded for the expanded dynamic range and color gamut. Vizio did not show it displaying conventionally graded content, with which the P series looked mighty fine.

Sony was showing its own HDR technology, not Dolby Vision, and it looked quite good from a cursory examination. The problem there is that the panel is still 8-bit, and I don't know if the studios will grade content for its capabilities specifically. The advantage of Dolby Vision is that the extra info beyond conventional dynamic range and gamut is encoded as metadata and can be ignored by TVs that do not have those capabilities. I don't know if the Sony HDR system works that way or not, or even if Sony has developed an encoding scheme that allows content to be graded for it. If so, what happens if that content is sent to a conventional TV? I don't know.
Scott Wilkinson

I have a Samsung FALD LED 10 bit panel from 2007 and Samsung went back to 8 bit panels with rec 709 not offering an advantage with a 10 bit panel.
Cheaper to make a 8 bit panel!
Great, but none of this explains what you said before. I'm well aware of what a 10 bit panel or greater would allow / offer.
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post #114 of 114 Old 05-18-2014, 05:49 PM
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Great, but none of this explains what you said before. I'm well aware of what a 10 bit panel or greater would allow / offer.

Ok! Try this http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?subaction=showfull&id=1390209932

Dolby wants us to use 10-bit or 12-bit instead – which is already included in the Ultra HD standard, too.

http://televisions.reviewed.com/features/whats-so-great-about-vizios-reference-series
Found this on web
Now, more to the point of the benefits (or advantages) offered by 10-bit LCD panel technology…

Every liquid crystal display panel contains millions of individual transparent “thin film” (most often indium tin oxide, aka ITO) transistors arranged on a glass substrate to form a very precisely patterned array. Each of these electronically ‘addressable’ transistors corresponds to an individual green (G), red (R), or blue (B) subpixel, which in turn forms individual (RGB) pixels. These digitally controlled pixels, when combined with other display components such as a backlight unit, allow the LCD panel to reproduce roughly 70% or more of the colors within a color gamut specified by a particular color display standard.

Each green, red, and blue subpixel is capable of producing several discrete levels of intensity as indicated by the bit-depth per subpixel color. A single 8-bit subpixel can produce (2^8 or) 256 discrete levels of intensity. 10-bit subpixels can produce (2^10 or) 1024 discrete levels and 12-bit subpixels can produce (2^12 or) 4096 levels of monochromatic color for each individual G, R, and B subpixel. By combining the individual green, red, and blue subpixels into a single pixel (along with a little help from the additive color mixture process and excluding any form of digital ‘manipulation,’) a digital, fixed-pixel, color liquid crystal display can be manufactured that is capable of reproducing (2^8)^3 = 16,777,216, (2^10)^3 = 1,073,741,824, or more, discrete colors from each pixel on such a display. Thus, increasing the color bit-depths by 2 bits per subpixel, i.e., from 8-bit to 10-bit subpixels and from 10-bit to 12-bit subpixels, will increase the total quantity of reproduced discrete colors by a factor of 64 times. Hence, a 10-bit display panel is capable of reproducing 64 times the quantity of colors reproduced by an ordinary 8-bit LCD panel. All things being equal this will provide much smoother transitions between adjacent discrete colors and a much better representation of the colors we experience in day-to-day life, and therefore a more realistic video image.
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