Vizio M Series HDTVs at CES 2014 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 135 Old 01-11-2014, 12:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Last year's M series used LED edgelighting, but all of Vizio's 2014 models now use full-array LED backlighting with local dimming—12 zones in the 42" model and 32 in models measuring 49" and above. In addition, the new M series implements a feature called Active Pixel Tuning, which adjusts the brightness of individual pixels dynamically—for example, opening the LCD shutters of the pixels reproducing stars in an otherwise black background, preventing halos. The image quality was excellent, certainly better than last year's M series.

 

The M series ranges from 32" ($330) to a whopping 80" ($3300).

 

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post #2 of 135 Old 01-11-2014, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

Last year's M series used LED edgelighting, but all of Vizio's 2014 models now use full-array LED backlighting with local dimming—12 zones in the 42" model and 32 is models measuring 49" and above. In addition, the new M series implements a feature called Active Pixel Tuning, which adjusts the brightness of individual pixels dynamically—for example, opening the LCD shutters of the pixels reproducing stars in an otherwise black background, preventing halos. The image quality was excellent, certainly better than last year's M series.



The M series ranges from 32" ($330) to a whopping 80" ($3300).

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Very good to hear as this may be the way to go for our situation. While our next set will go in our living room, I am due for one in the bedroom as well. So I think we may go budget this time around and wait to see what advancements are made over the next year in the 4K arena as well as the continuing development of what looks to be a very promising Reference series!

I am blown away that one can get a 70 inch FALD for well under $2000 when you consider the inevitable Costco ($200) discount to MSRP. I'd buy one tomorrow if I could get my hands on one!
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post #3 of 135 Old 01-11-2014, 11:52 AM
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Very good to hear as this may be the way to go for our situation. While our next set will go in our living room, I am due for one in the bedroom as well. So I think we may go budget this time around and wait to see what advancements are made over the next year in the 4K arena as well as the continuing development of what looks to be a very promising Reference series!

I am blown away that one can get a 70 inch FALD for well under $2000 when you consider the inevitable Costco ($200) discount to MSRP. I'd buy one tomorrow if I could get my hands on one!

I know what you mean by going budget but Samsungs' new "7" series will likely be quite a bit more expensive than even Vizio's "P" series. The "7" series line will still be edge-lit with a video based dimming scheme, unless I'm missing something it's absurd how much better Vizio's "M" series will be than the "7" series at a lower price.
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post #4 of 135 Old 01-11-2014, 05:27 PM
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I know what you mean by going budget but Samsungs' new "7" series will likely be quite a bit more expensive than even Vizio's "P" series. The "7" series line will still be edge-lit with a video based dimming scheme, unless I'm missing something it's absurd how much better Vizio's "M" series will be than the "7" series at a lower price.

You and me both...

I guess I'm still reeling at all the good news coming out of Vizio this past week (to now include reviews from AVS guys talking about 40 inch E-series with praise wink.gif ) that I only really know one thing for sure at this point. I know I will be buying a Vizio this year, just not certain which model! Although I am leaning toward the M-series 70...
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post #5 of 135 Old 01-12-2014, 07:59 AM
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—12 zones in the 42" model and 32 in models measuring 49"

So... Will it be worth stepping up to a larger set for more zones? I'm really looking forward to these new sets being put through the review wringer. And they seem to be generating enough buzz that they will be.

- Jasen.
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post #6 of 135 Old 01-12-2014, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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So... Will it be worth stepping up to a larger set for more zones? I'm really looking forward to these new sets being put through the review wringer. And them seem to be generating enough buzz that they will be.
 


Yes, absolutely; more zones is definitely better.


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post #7 of 135 Old 01-12-2014, 10:52 AM
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Unfortunately this reminds me of when Hyundai wanted to get into the luxury car business and compete with Mercedes and BMW. Forgive the comparison. On paper everything looks great. The initial impressions are good. The value is there. But at the end of the day, the biggest obstacle Vizio is going to have is the fact that their name is on the TV with a certain portion of their buying public. My experience with them has not been very good. I've also had Panasonic, LG, Samsung and Sony. Every Sony I've ever had has needed repaired. LG's build quality was not good either. For me, Samsung and Panasonic have been top notch. I wouldn't touch anything but. The point that I'm trying to make is that these sets are going to have to be an absolute home run in reality, not just the specs, to start changing people's perception. Guess we have to wait and see.
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post #8 of 135 Old 01-12-2014, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cjsiv View Post

Unfortunately this reminds me of when Hyundai wanted to get into the luxury car business and compete with Mercedes and BMW. Forgive the comparison. On paper everything looks great. The initial impressions are good. The value is there. But at the end of the day, the biggest obstacle Vizio is going to have is the fact that their name is on the TV with a certain portion of their buying public. My experience with them has not been very good. I've also had Panasonic, LG, Samsung and Sony. Every Sony I've ever had has needed repaired. LG's build quality was not good either. For me, Samsung and Panasonic have been top notch. I wouldn't touch anything but. The point that I'm trying to make is that these sets are going to have to be an absolute home run in reality, not just the specs, to start changing people's perception. Guess we have to wait and see.

You probably have a point about perception catching up with reality but that's to your advantage if you're an astute shopper. Once perception catches up so do the prices matching those of the established premium brands. So if Vizio's new TVs come thru in performance it will still take some time for consumers to not think of Vizio as some tier 2 brand. But what the majority think sure isn't going to stop me from buying a Vizio if it's a performer.

My Hyundai analogy would be the eye catching Sonata competing with the Accord/Camry/Passat, something unheard of 5 years ago. Hyundai my not be considered a luxury brand but they're no longer considered a maker of cheap econo cars either.

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post #9 of 135 Old 01-12-2014, 11:20 AM
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Keeping the car analogy alive. Although the Hyundai can look sharp, when you get behind the wheel and under the hood, it is no Honda. I think it is a very fitting comparison to the build qualities of these sets. I was thinking about getting a Vizio as a filler for the next few years till these other technologies get ironed out and prices fall to normal mass market levels. Just don't know if I want the gamble.
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post #10 of 135 Old 01-12-2014, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cjsiv View Post

On paper everything looks great. The initial impressions are good. The value is there. But at the end of the day, the biggest obstacle Vizio is going to have is the fact that their name is on the TV with a certain portion of their buying public. The point that I'm trying to make is that these sets are going to have to be an absolute home run in reality, not just the specs, to start changing people's perception. Guess we have to wait and see.

Which is why for superior performance, the Vizio panels are going to have to offer a price far below competing offerings from the top-tier brands. I believe Vizio is aware of the challenges associated with changing brand perception and 'moving up the ranks' and it is preparing to take on that challenge that has motivated them to introduce a R(eference) line.

If you could buy Hyundai's luxury Sedan for half the price of a Mercedes, you might consider it. If the price was anywhere close, it would probably not be worth the risk...

-fafrd

p.s. another question for Scott - any impressions of differences between the Vizio M and E? I know the M has better specs and more dimming zones, but was the image noticeably superior in any way from what you saw at CES?
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post #11 of 135 Old 01-12-2014, 12:37 PM
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Keeping the car analogy alive. Although the Hyundai can look sharp, when you get behind the wheel and under the hood, it is no Honda. I think it is a very fitting comparison to the build qualities of these sets. I was thinking about getting a Vizio as a filler for the next few years till these other technologies get ironed out and prices fall to normal mass market levels. Just don't know if I want the gamble.


As one who has had many Accords in my lifetime I would say you're making my point about perception. No, I don't own Hyundai.

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Which is why for superior performance, the Vizio panels are going to have to offer a price far below competing offerings from the top-tier brands. I believe Vizio is aware of the challenges associated with changing brand perception and 'moving up the ranks' and it is preparing to take on that challenge that has motivated them to introduce a R(eference) line.

The current "M" series is already rated higher than the comparable F7100 by cnet and the new "M" series is going to destroy the H7100 yet many will blissfully pay more for the Samsung when the new models come out. The point is it's a win situation for the informed consumer.

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post #12 of 135 Old 01-12-2014, 12:53 PM
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When are these going to be reaching stores in my question. Looking for a new 55" or so for the living room.
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post #13 of 135 Old 01-12-2014, 12:58 PM
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I consider myself an informed consumer,definitely not a newbie to home theater. I love my 7100 and chose it over the M series, even though I could have bought 5 Inches larger with the vizio for the same price. If you do some research (as I did) you will find many thought cnets review of the 7100 was half assed. I went through many,many TVs last year and the Samsung is far above any of them that I tried performance wise. Their implementation of micro dimming,although software based and not full array,is artifact free and deep black. Much better than any of the others I demoed. If vizio pulls off performance on par with what they put down on paper,then they will really have a contender of a product. I hope they do and this really is their turning point. But up to this point, their implemenation of local dimming, app performance, motion blur, shoddy remote, build quality, etc has too many question marks on their record to automatically put them in the same league as Samsung or Sony until some reviews are officially in. In my opinion.

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post #14 of 135 Old 01-13-2014, 06:22 AM
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To all the people questioning the reliability of Vizio's HDTVs, according to Consumers Report Buying Guide only 3% on average needed repairs during their first few years of use, the same amount as Sharp and Samsung.
JVC, Sony and Panasonic came at 2% rate, Toshiba, LG and Philips at 4%, Magnavox and Hitachi at 5%, Westinghouse at 8% and Mitsubishi at 11%.
So, based on these findings it appears that Vizio's track record of reliability of its HDTVs is up there with the major Japanese and Korean manufacturers.
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post #15 of 135 Old 01-13-2014, 06:28 AM
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Although the Hyundai can look sharp, when you get behind the wheel and under the hood, it is no Honda.

I recently test drove Hondas. Current Honda is no Honda either. frown.gif
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post #16 of 135 Old 01-13-2014, 06:39 AM
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Has it been factually established that you are better off in practical PQ without obvious side effects having FALD with so few zones versus a good implementation of edge-lit or "full array" without local dimming? I get that intuitively everyone is excited about FALD returning to sets, as am I. I would would think the high end models with hundreds of zones are a no brainer, price aside. But I would also think having so few zones is not materially different than edge lighting, the best implementations of which have many discrete equivalent to zones in terms of their ability to selectively dim sections. Sure you won't have the light bleed on the edges but you could still get blooming and other problems. And I'm not sure if having only a 4 x 3 grid of zones, if not expertly implemented, will be less distracting with complex, discretely dark and light source material than some edge bleeding.

Again, this is a question not a statement. I haven't' seen these new sets or studied a set recently with comparably few FALD zones. But I have learned over the years not to make intuitive assumptions and instead trust measurable and observable results. Things often don't work out intuitively. All FALD will not be created equal, either in terms of zone count or implementation. Some sets will have better chips or software for managing dimming. Etc. If FALD does make a roaring come-back people will need to start paying attention to the details on FALD implementation and not just get excited that a set has FALD.
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post #17 of 135 Old 01-13-2014, 06:55 AM
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Has it been factually established that you are better off in practical PQ without obvious side effects having FALD with so few zones versus a good implementation of edge-lit or "full array" without local dimming?

I'm with you. I want to see some expert, professional reviews with test patterns, proper calibration, and all the other rigor that comes with a professional review. It seems VIZIO has struck out from the herd by going all FALD. Now lets see some measurements of how their implementation compares.

Unfortunately, only their low-end E series is available now. I really want to know how the Es compare to the Ms compare to everyone else. Patience.

- Jasen.

P.S. But the Olympics are coming soon and I really want a spiffy new set to watch them on. Sadly, I think there's a very low chance the new Ms will be available by then.
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post #18 of 135 Old 01-14-2014, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Citivas View Post

Has it been factually established that you are better off in practical PQ without obvious side effects having FALD with so few zones versus a good implementation of edge-lit or "full array" without local dimming? I get that intuitively everyone is excited about FALD returning to sets, as am I. I would would think the high end models with hundreds of zones are a no brainer, price aside. But I would also think having so few zones is not materially different than edge lighting, the best implementations of which have many discrete equivalent to zones in terms of their ability to selectively dim sections. Sure you won't have the light bleed on the edges but you could still get blooming and other problems. And I'm not sure if having only a 4 x 3 grid of zones, if not expertly implemented, will be less distracting with complex, discretely dark and light source material than some edge bleeding.

Again, this is a question not a statement. I haven't' seen these new sets or studied a set recently with comparably few FALD zones. But I have learned over the years not to make intuitive assumptions and instead trust measurable and observable results. Things often don't work out intuitively. All FALD will not be created equal, either in terms of zone count or implementation. Some sets will have better chips or software for managing dimming. Etc. If FALD does make a roaring come-back people will need to start paying attention to the details on FALD implementation and not just get excited that a set has FALD.

I'm with you - FALD with only a few zones is not really 'local' (and so should not be allowed to be called FALD)...

-fafrd
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post #19 of 135 Old 01-16-2014, 02:59 PM
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You don't have to have been around too long to remember when Samsung was a 4th tier brand....right there with Colby and Emerson.
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post #20 of 135 Old 01-16-2014, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

To all the people questioning the reliability of Vizio's HDTVs, according to Consumers Report Buying Guide only 3% on average needed repairs during their first few years of use, the same amount as Sharp and Samsung.
JVC, Sony and Panasonic came at 2% rate, Toshiba, LG and Philips at 4%, Magnavox and Hitachi at 5%, Westinghouse at 8% and Mitsubishi at 11%.
So, based on these findings it appears that Vizio's track record of reliability of its HDTVs is up there with the major Japanese and Korean manufacturers.

Consumer reports also had a disclaimer that any differece of 3% or less is meaningless, point being reliability wise Vizio is as good as any.
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post #21 of 135 Old 01-16-2014, 06:19 PM
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Hard to argue with the pricing on the M's

VIZIO M-Series Full-Array LED backlit LCD Smart TVs
(M322i) $329.99 (MSRP)
(M422i) $529.99 (MSRP)
(M492i) $699.99 (MSRP)
(M502i) $729.99 (MSRP)
(M552i) $899.99 (MSRP)
(M602i) $1,199.99 (MSRP)
(M652i) $1,499.99 (MSRP)
(M702i) $1,899.99 (MSRP)
(M801i) $3,299.99 (MSRP)

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post #22 of 135 Old 01-16-2014, 06:44 PM
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Something that Scott mentioned in the original post that no one here seems to be talking about is the "active pixel tuning". I agree that there should be a standard set for being advertized as a FALD tv. It does seem odd that theses sets have relatively low numbers of local dimming zones. Is this because of the effectiveness of the "active pixel tuning"? Or just a way to keep the cost down? No one will now until these sets hit the market. I think we can all agree the more local dimming zones the better, but Vizio could be onto something here. I am in the market for a new set this year and before CES I never considered Vizio as an option over Sony or Samsung, now these new M series & P series lines have become a real contender (on paper). I cant wait to see how these 2014 model compare to the competition, until then its fun to speculate.

Below is a link of the Product Marketing Manager for Vizio's tv category, he explains the difference between each series. And besides more local dimming zones the "active pixel tuning" seems to be the main difference in PQ when stepping up to the M series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qJvyhYWf3s
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post #23 of 135 Old 01-16-2014, 08:26 PM
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Something that Scott mentioned in the original post that no one here seems to be talking about is the "active pixel tuning". I agree that there should be a standard set for being advertized as a FALD tv. It does seem odd that theses sets have relatively low numbers of local dimming zones. Is this because of the effectiveness of the "active pixel tuning"? Or just a way to keep the cost down? No one will now until these sets hit the market. I think we can all agree the more local dimming zones the better, but Vizio could be onto something here. I am in the market for a new set this year and before CES I never considered Vizio as an option over Sony or Samsung, now these new M series & P series lines have become a real contender (on paper). I cant wait to see how these 2014 model compare to the competition, until then its fun to speculate.

Below is a link of the Product Marketing Manager for Vizio's tv category, he explains the difference between each series. And besides more local dimming zones the "active pixel tuning" seems to be the main difference in PQ when stepping up to the M series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qJvyhYWf3s

Sounds to me like the 'active pixel tuning' is some technology to be smart about the level of backlight presented in each part of the panel once the brightness of the LEDs has all been set that then allows for individual pixel values to be adjusted to provide the appropriate output level given the level of backlight directly behind each pixel. I would have thought that everyone would have done this since the beginning of FALD, but maybe not. With Dolby helping Vizio with local dimming, maybe this is a level of technology that Vizio now has access to that was beyond them last time they ventured into FALD.

Active pixel tuning is not advertised on the E Series, but it also would not surprise me to discover that some version of the same FALD compensation techniques are in use there. The early review on the Vizio E Series panels with as few as 6 local dimming zones just don't make sense unless there was some new technology brought to the FALD party in addition to the full-array LED backlight...

I'll be very interested to see how the M-Series compares to the E-Series once they are both out.

-fafrd
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post #24 of 135 Old 01-17-2014, 05:06 AM
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I think this is fantastic news for budget-conscious consumers looking for a decent quality TV. As for the car analogy, while name brand certainly does convey a certain cachet, this is much more prevalent in the auto industry than with TVs, IMO.

It's just too bad they aren't 3D-capable, but I won't harp on that.
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post #25 of 135 Old 01-19-2014, 05:12 AM
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You don't have to have been around too long to remember when Samsung was a 4th tier brand....right there with Colby and Emerson.

Personally, I could care less what tier vizio was in. Based on universal feedback at ces 14 the r series is the best display out there at the moment, and that rightfully should propel Vizio to number one, provided it is reliable, and the 65" is priced for mere mortals. While the Korean's were screwing around with the curved gimick, vizio was working on the stuff that really matters, like picture quality, and bleeding edge technology. The combination of vizio's aggressive pricing, features, and bleeding edge technology makes them the company that just plain gets it. It looks like the fact they are still percieved by the mainstream as a mid tier company keeps their pricing aggressive at the moment, and they may now occupy the bang for the buck category that Panasonic just vacated when they abandoned plasma. I have a vt60, and it is by far the best set I've ever had, and why we aren't seeing 70", and 80" 4k plasmas this year is just mind boggling, but I'm willing to vacate plasma for the vizio with hdr, hdmi 2.0, crazy amount of local dimming zones, and 10 bit color.

When the Chinese move up the rankings... and they will, they will be the force to be reckoned with in the display industry.
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post #26 of 135 Old 01-19-2014, 06:08 AM
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When did last years new models that were announced at the 2013 CES become readily available? Are we waiting for spring or summer?

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #27 of 135 Old 01-19-2014, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by tezster View Post

I think this is fantastic news for budget-conscious consumers looking for a decent quality TV. As for the car analogy, while name brand certainly does convey a certain cachet, this is much more prevalent in the auto industry than with TVs, IMO.

It's just too bad they aren't 3D-capable, but I won't harp on that.

Hyundai used to be hot garbage now they're almost up there with Honda.
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post #28 of 135 Old 01-19-2014, 08:14 AM
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When did last years new models that were announced at the 2013 CES become readily available? Are we waiting for spring or summer?

Not sure how accurate it is, but Amazon lists the first available date for everything in the current M series as between May 1 and May 31, with the exception of the 80", which was October 1.
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post #29 of 135 Old 01-19-2014, 10:08 AM
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Not sure how accurate it is, but Amazon lists the first available date for everything in the current M series as between May 1 and May 31, with the exception of the 80", which was October 1.
Nevermind. I misread and thought you were referring to the 2014 series.
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post #30 of 135 Old 01-19-2014, 12:42 PM
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I wanted to use last year as a actual example. Then I would say more like June.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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