Vizio P Series UHDTVs at CES 2014 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
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A new line for Vizio, the P series consists of the company's first UHDTVs. Like all 2014 Vizio TVs, these use full-array LED backlighting with local dimming, with 64 zones in this case along with Active Pixel Tuning. The V6 processor includes a quad-core GPU and dual-core CPU and a separate, dedicated VM50 processor takes care of UHD motion interpolation, scaling, etc. Also featured are HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, HEVC decoding, and 802.11ac WiFi. Another cool feature is High-Velocity mode, which can accept 1080p at 120 fps and low latency for gaming. The picture quality was exceptional with native UHD content shot on Red camera and played from a RedRay server; I did not get to see how the P series did with upscaling HD.

 

The P series ranges in size from 50" ($1000) to 70" ($2600). Man, that's a serious deal for UHD!

 

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post #2 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

A new line for Vizio, the P series consists of the company's first UHDTVs. Of course, these use full-array LED backlighting with local dimming, with 64 zones in this case along with Active Pixel Tuning. The V6 processor includes a quad-core GPU and dual-core CPU and a separate, dedicated VM50 processor takes care of UHD motion interpolation, scaling, etc. Also featured are HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, HEVC decoding, and 802.11ac WiFi. Another cool feature is High-Velocity mode, which can accept 1080p at 120 fps and low latency for gaming. The picture quality was exceptional with native UHD content shot on Red camera and played from a RedRay server; I did not get to see how the P series did with upscaling HD.



The P series ranges in size from 50" ($1000) to 70" ($2600). Man, that's a serious deal for UHD!

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Ahhh - I was hoping to read that you were able to see it upscale some SD/HD content.

Thanks for your impressions Scott, on these and the E and M-series!
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post #3 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 01:22 AM
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Scott does the P series have the Dolby HDR?
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post #4 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 02:18 AM
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Is the Hyper Velocity Mode basically there for PC games, as in you'll be able to set them to run in a 120Hz mode, or does it also do anything for console games to improve smoothness and reduce motion blur without increasing input lag? Because that's what I want from an LED HDTV when gaming - little to no motion blur and low input lag. There's always the option of backlight strobing from certain competitors, but they're also rather pricey.
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post #5 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 02:30 AM
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i was wishing they offer 80"+ with the P series or even the R series
R series my consideration ..

P series not bad for the budget if the PQ is where it says .. or very good but not perfect for just $2.6k 70"
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post #6 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 02:40 AM
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How does the PQ compare to plasma TV's? Interested in the 70" if it will look good as my PN64D8000.

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post #7 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewhale1 View Post

Scott does the P series have the Dolby HDR?
Only Series with HDR is the Reference Series

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post #8 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Noyd View Post

Only Series with HDR is the Reference Series

Ok thanks. Cant wait to see it for myself. Im hoping the P series is better than my Samsung d8000 as far as color (yes i know this one is a 4k and mines is a 1080p). If it is Im grabbing a 50 inch P as soon as i can grab one.
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post #9 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 07:13 AM
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I spent the first half of last year trying to decide on which TV to buy and finally bought a 70" M series which was my first Vizio, I've had nothing buy excellent performance from it and was 100% happy with it then I read this about the P Series. Looks like I'll be adding another TV to my collection when these launch. (That doesn't mean I'm not still 100% happy with the M btw)

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post #10 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 07:42 AM
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Do you see major retailers carrying 3 lines of the same size/brand? When presented with the E/M/P series I would think the P wouldn't sell well based on price per inch which is likely the deciding factor for most novices wandering Best Buy for a new TV. Even as it appears the P series is an exceptional value.

The predominant strategy seems to be to present the cheapest model at a current size, and the much more expensive model at the same size, at which point people say, I can't realty tell the difference and buy the cheaper one, which is a shame since the material presented on display models is generally terrible.
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post #11 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cabby View Post

Do you see major retailers carrying 3 lines of the same size/brand? When presented with the E/M/P series I would think the P wouldn't sell well based on price per inch which is likely the deciding factor for most novices wandering Best Buy for a new TV. Even as it appears the P series is an exceptional value.

The predominant strategy seems to be to present the cheapest model at a current size, and the much more expensive model at the same size, at which point people say, I can't realty tell the difference and buy the cheaper one, which is a shame since the material presented on display models is generally terrible.
I think 4K will be a big selling point with the P series this year, especially when people see the price compared to the Sony and Samsung 4K's and see the demo's on these TV's. I am willing to bet the average consumer who's knows nothing about TV's would spend extra money to get 4K even though they haven't a clue about it.
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post #12 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bluewhale1 View Post

Scott does the P series have the Dolby HDR?


Nope, only the Reference series.


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post #13 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 10:15 AM
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Is there any news about when (more or less) the P-series will be on the market?
Does anybody know which is the equivalence between the 'new' hz measurement they have chosen with the real hz? The P-series have like 960 And I don't know what is that exactly...as for the rest of models, 1800 for the Reference series...
What about the number of dimming zones? For the P-series says 64 zones (64 zones for all the sizes?), for the M-series UP to 32 zones (I assume that depending on the size, they have more or less zones...) and for the E-series UP to 16 zones...
For the P-series is the only one that says 64 zones...does it mean that also the 50 inches P-series will have 64 zones?
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post #14 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tdeath View Post

Is there any news about when (more or less) the P-series will be on the market?
Does anybody know which is the equivalence between the 'new' hz measurement they have chosen with the real hz? The P-series have like 960 And I don't know what is that exactly...as for the rest of models, 1800 for the Reference series...
What about the number of dimming zones? For the P-series says 64 zones (64 zones for all the sizes?), for the M-series UP to 32 zones (I assume that depending on the size, they have more or less zones...) and for the E-series UP to 16 zones...
For the P-series is the only one that says 64 zones...does it mean that also the 50 inches P-series will have 64 zones?

The current "M" series ranges from 8 6 zones (50 inch) to 16 zones (60 inch and up). My interpretation is again the bigger screens will have more zones for the "M" series. I also picked up on Vizio's verbiage that it didn't state up to 64 zones, but simply 64 zones and I take that to mean 64 zones for all screen sizes.

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post #15 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

The current "M" series ranges from 8 zones (50 inch) to 16 zones (60 inch and up). My interpretation is again the bigger screens will have more zones for the "M" series. I also picked up on the verbiage that the "P" series didn't state up to 64 zones but simply 64 zones and I take that to mean 64 zones for all screen sizes.
Where can I find how many dimming zones do the current M-series have? Btw I thought that my M501d-a2r had 6 zones instead of 8...
I'd like to know if, for real, all the P-series will have 64 zones for sure and all that cause I'm thinking about changing my M501 for one of those, I guess that it will improve quite a bit my current M series even though I lose the 3d
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Is the P series made with a 10 bit panel?
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post #17 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 10:48 AM
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Where can I find how many dimming zones do the current M-series have? Btw I thought that my M501d-a2r had 6 zones instead of 8...
I'd like to know if, for real, all the P-series will have 64 zones for sure and all that cause I'm thinking about changing my M501 for one of those, I guess that it will improve quite a bit my current M series even though I lose the 3d

My apologies you are correct, it's 6 zones.

http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/VIZIO-M551D-A2R-Review.htm

Also from Scott's impressions of the "M" series: "but all of Vizio's 2014 models now use full-array LED backlighting with local dimming—12 zones in the 42" model and 32 in models measuring 49" and above."

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1511152/vizio-m-series-hdtvs-at-ces-2014

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post #18 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 10:58 AM
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The current "M" series ranges from 8 6 zones (50 inch) to 16 zones (60 inch and up). My interpretation is again the bigger screens will have more zones for the "M" series. I also picked up on Vizio's verbiage that it didn't state up to 64 zones, but simply 64 zones and I take that to mean 64 zones for all screen sizes.

I believe that is true for the P Series (64 zones for 60", 65" and 70") but not for the M or the E (which have smaller screen sizes and for which Vizio has reserved the latitude to use fewer than 32 (M) or 16 (E) dimming zones...)

I'm just very curious to now what kind of performance they can get out of a FALD set with only 64 zones. Past attempts made it sound like fewer than 200 zones resulted in visible artifacts from dimming and/or visible dimming zones ("candle moving through a dark room effect"). The fact that there are some AVS members who seem pleased with the 2013 M Series (which is edge-lit and has no more than 64 dimming zones) leaves room for encouragement.

But ultimately I believe it is clear that only the (R)eference Series is going to be the real-deal as far as state-of-the-art FALD implementation (hopefully).

Then with that price-performance set, the P could well look like the better value (depending where the 65" R Series is priced), as Eric3316 has already stated...

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post #19 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 11:09 AM
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I came into the 2014 CES with anticipation that Samsung would announce new plasma models for this year but instead got news that they plan to introduce new models mid year. Then my jaw just dropped on the specs of Vizio's new model line up. And it absolutely dropped to the floor with specs and prices of the new "P" series. I'm awaiting the "P" series like a kid before Christmas and not so much for the 4K resolution but for having 60% of the specs of their reference series. If theses TVs upscale HD/SD well it's going to be gimme, gimme, gimme.

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post #20 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 11:18 AM
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The fact that there are some AVS members who seem pleased with the 2013 M Series (which is edge-lit and has no more than 64 dimming zones) leaves room for encouragement.

-fafrd

As one who tried out 3 50 inch "M" series TVs I wasn't one of them. I thought the blooming was horrendous and clouding and flashlighting was evident without it engaged. The fact that this year's "M" series will have full array back lighting should help out greatly in that regard.

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post #21 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 06:08 PM
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You can't do local dimming with edge lighting. Period.

You can do dimming zones that are in the shape of elongated rectangles, which makes them prone to very weird artifacting.

I would draw no conclusions from zone counts based on edge lit sets that claim to offer dimming. It's such an awful way of doing dimming.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #22 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 06:43 PM
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You can't do local dimming with edge lighting. Period.

You can do dimming zones that are in the shape of elongated rectangles, which makes them prone to very weird artifacting.

I would draw no conclusions from zone counts based on edge lit sets that claim to offer dimming. It's such an awful way of doing dimming.

All the 2014 Vizios are Full Array LEDs
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post #23 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 07:30 PM
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Just making sure I have things defined right. Full array local dimming means the leds are spread evenly behind the screen and edge lit has the leds only around the edge. What do active dimming zones do? I just know more is better. I've been under the impression that 64 was hig plasmas have 300 zones? Unless I'm mistaken isn't 64 a good amount?
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post #24 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 07:56 PM
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Just making sure I have things defined right. Full array local dimming means the leds are spread evenly behind the screen and edge lit has the leds only around the edge. What do active dimming zones do? I just know more is better. I've been under the impression that 64 was hig plasmas have 300 zones? Unless I'm mistaken isn't 64 a good amount?

You're right, full array local dimming has LEDs in zones all through the screen real estate and each zone can be dimmed according to the picture to create great black levels. It's the best out there but I guess as of now more expensive.

Edge LEDs have them all arranged along the edges and there are light guides that channel the light to the particular area of the screen that needs the light, however since such a bright source of light is at the edge of the screen there is inevitably some seepage of unwated light onto the edges of the screen

Of course there are a gazillion different opinions as to whether local dimming actually helps or not:

http://www.rtings.com/info/what-is-local-dimming

the best technology is Plasma but of course that is dead now because of all the bad publicity it got early in the game from screen burn in and such.
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post #25 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 08:02 PM
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Awesome stuff. Can the zones be automatically adjusted or do you only get the benefit if you manually do it?
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post #26 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 08:10 PM
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Awesome stuff. Can the zones be automatically adjusted or do you only get the benefit if you manually do it?

Nothing is done manually. The picture is analyzed and automatically the back-light is reduced in areas that call for darker colors or blacks, there by increasing contrast.
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Thus the more the better smile.gif
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post #28 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 10:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Is the P series made with a 10 bit panel?


No, 8-bit. Only the Reference series is 10-bit.


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post #29 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 10:38 PM
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One question, just to know...I guess that with the 4k tv, all the inferior resolutions are accepted, right?
I mean, that the movies in full hd will be reproduced in the same way that we can reproduce them now in our full hd TVs...

And...another question, is it worth to lose the 3d feature for the new tech that vizio uses in their new models? Change the 50 or 55 inches of the current M-series for the P-series with 64 dimming zones and full array led but no 3d?
I don't think that I will trade my M series for the new M series...
Any idea yet about the new refresh rates that they say in the web for the new models?
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post #30 of 403 Old 01-11-2014, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Where can I find how many dimming zones do the current M-series have? Btw I thought that my M501d-a2r had 6 zones instead of 8...
I'd like to know if, for real, all the P-series will have 64 zones for sure and all that cause I'm thinking about changing my M501 for one of those, I guess that it will improve quite a bit my current M series even though I lose the 3d


In Vizio's 2013 model-numbering scheme, the letter (E or M) is followed by the screen size, then 0 or 1, then d or i. If the number after the screen size is a 0, the set uses full-array backlighting; if it's a 1, it's edgelit. The d means it's 3D, while the i means it's a smart TV without 3D. So the M501d is a 50-inch edgelit 3D set. As an edgelit model, it does not have true local dimming, no matter what Vizio says.


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