Vizio Reference Series UHDTVs at CES 2014 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 511 Old 01-17-2014, 08:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by monitormaven View Post

[quote name="MassConfusion" url="/t/1511154/vizio-reference-series-uhdtvs-at-ces-2014/60#post_24225121"With all the movies that keep coming out in 3d i feel like the loss of 3d sucks.
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+1

Especially now that 4K displays would produce a full HD (1920x1080) image per eye with passive glasses.
+2
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post #92 of 511 Old 01-17-2014, 04:04 PM
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I think we can already consider vizio a top brand especially now it seems they have a tv at every range, except 3d. But yea i dont consider vizio a budget brand but they do have a line of low budget tvs.
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post #93 of 511 Old 01-17-2014, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

You know, that point has been made over and over (and over and over) on this thread and others. Everyone following this thread understands that there is a population of videophiles that would never purchase a new TV that does not support 3D, regardless of breathtaking improvements to picture quality.

Not that I am not a big believer that everyone should have their voice heard, but your statement merely parrot's all of the other similar statements on this thread and really does not add anything to the dialog. If you are interested in making your view heard by the community, it might be more effective to start a new poll on the subject so we can all get a sense of what % of AVS members feel as you do on the subject...

-fafrd
I'm also in the "no 3d, no interest category" but I'm confused on where I should go to voice my opinion on whether or not I'd be interested in these. Surely, it's acceptable to voice my opinion on the Vizio Reference Series UHDTVs, otherwise known as "THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD!!!!"
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post #94 of 511 Old 01-17-2014, 04:28 PM
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Post you "no 3d" over in the "Vizio Eliminates 3D" thread or look elsewhere for a TV. Pretty plain and simple!
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post #95 of 511 Old 01-17-2014, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post

I'm also in the "no 3d, no interest category" but I'm confused on where I should go to voice my opinion on whether or not I'd be interested in these. Surely, it's acceptable to voice my opinion on the Vizio Reference Series UHDTVs, otherwise known as "THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD!!!!"
There is a dedicated "No 3D vizio" thread on this very forum you can go there as well. The Reference series thread is for those excited about what the display has to offer even with the exclusion of 3D. Vizio is not going to pull a Xbox one style 180 and suddenly add it back in. Microsoft had the entire community up in arms, but the relatively low number of of people that actually use 3D on Vizio is not enough to sway them.
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post #96 of 511 Old 01-17-2014, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Thanks. I had already seen that link - interesting info regarding the 'bleeding edge' but it makes no mention of competing HDR standards. Do you know if Microsoft has it's own initiative for HDR that is promoting a standard different that Dolby's???

I will poke around the HTPC forum to see what I can learn...

-fafrd
I think it all falls back to REC.2020 standard and people like Dolby ad to it. Microsoft should allow REC.2020 with all the gamers who use high end stuff.
Read about nivida disabling their 10 bit drivers in windows so you have to buy their professional Quadro card which cost a lot more. I think nivida and ati will change their mind with the new 10 bit panel and not disable their 10 bit drivers. 4k tv with HTPC and 4k gaming will take off .
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post #97 of 511 Old 01-17-2014, 05:47 PM
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"Kudos" to Vizio!!!

Thank you for listening and bringing out "full array backlit" UHD 4K TV's with remarkable blacks... Edge lit technology is pure crap and a step backwards... You get a thinner TV with awful blacks and light bleed from the edges.. Again, "Kudos" to Vizio for bringing out a reference TV that we can all appreciate.. Job well done. smile.gif
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post #98 of 511 Old 01-17-2014, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Sound & Vision View Post

"Kudos" to Vizio!!!

Thank you for listening and bringing out "full array backlit" UHD 4K TV's with remarkable blacks... Edge lit technology is pure crap and a step backwards... You get a thinner TV with awful blacks and light bleed from the edges.. Again, "Kudos" to Vizio for bringing out a reference TV that we can all appreciate.. Job well done. smile.gif

So they made it official that the reference series 65" is coming to production for real this year, or were they just blowing smoke like they done before?

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post #99 of 511 Old 01-17-2014, 07:01 PM
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I'm excited about the R series but I think they are making a big mistake with the sizes. 65" is too small and the 120" is really just for bragging rights. Unless you are an oil sheik no one is going to be buying them. I think a 70" and 85" would have been a much better spread for this high end TV.
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post #100 of 511 Old 01-17-2014, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

I'm excited about the R series but I think they are making a big mistake with the sizes. 65" is too small and the 120" is really just for bragging rights. Unless you are an oil sheik no one is going to be buying them. I think a 70" and 85" would have been a much better spread for this high end TV.
It is the makers of the panels in 10 bit that is the limit of size. I don't know of anyone making a 70 to 79 panel in 10 bit. The p series in 70 is a 8 bit panel and even Sony 79 is 8 bit
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20131218PD217.html
I think buying a 4K 8 bit panel is close to buying a 4k with HDMI 1.4 , it will look nice but will not meet REC.2020 and in the long run you will miss a lot.
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post #101 of 511 Old 01-18-2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

I'm excited about the R series but I think they are making a big mistake with the sizes. 65" is too small and the 120" is really just for bragging rights. Unless you are an oil sheik no one is going to be buying them. I think a 70" and 85" would have been a much better spread for this high end TV.

I agree 100%!

I've said it before and I'll say it again...Vizio should have included an 84" in their Reference Series to compete with LG, Samsung, Sony, and Toshiba's 84" models. It would have been much more "consumer-friendly" in both price and size.

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post #102 of 511 Old 01-18-2014, 03:00 PM
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Found a Vizio review I had not seen before that discloses a bit more detail on their color space:

http://televisions.reviewed.com/features/whats-so-great-about-vizios-reference-series

-fafrd

p.s. the video is another (slightly different) interview with McRae
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post #103 of 511 Old 01-18-2014, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Found a Vizio review I had not seen before that discloses a bit more detail on their color space:

http://televisions.reviewed.com/features/whats-so-great-about-vizios-reference-series

-fafrd

p.s. the video is another (slightly different) interview with McRae

Thanks for the link to the article. This is the first time that I've heard this about the new Reference series:
Quote:

Each Reference Series panel will allegedly be factory calibrated to D65, though I heard no mention of ISF or THX specification. Hwang relayed that the Reference Series' software should give home hobbyists access to 10-point white balance, a CMS (Color Management System), and Gamma control—the TVs default to a 2.2 correction curve in order to operate more smoothly with most content sources.
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post #104 of 511 Old 01-18-2014, 05:13 PM
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I think 65" is a good size. Its all room dize and personal preference. And waf for the married people lol
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post #105 of 511 Old 01-18-2014, 06:51 PM
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So they made it official that the reference series 65" is coming to production for real this year, or were they just blowing smoke like they done before?

Yes, it's Official..... smile.gif
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post #106 of 511 Old 01-18-2014, 06:56 PM
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Thanks for the link to the article. This is the first time that I've heard this about the new Reference series:

You can have a reference TV without paying THX for the use of their name and all that is associated with it.. Just as long as the calibration adjustments and panel quality are there. Remember VIZIO is thinking of the consumer and what they feel is a good price point to sell these TV's.
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post #107 of 511 Old 01-18-2014, 07:41 PM
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I am just in awe of the 120" Vizio assuming all the proper components, add-ons produce picture quality that, at least on paper, should surpass any other TV currently on the market. I currently have 3 Sharp 90" panels that have been properly calibrated and produce superb images but with 384 point local dimming and all the other image enhancing electronics this new TV should be breathtaking. I am in no hurry since I won't be purchasing TVs for another 18 to 24 months (starting to build a new home later this year) so will have to see how the selling price settles out on this TV. In another 24 to 35 months perhaps OLED will be available in this size range (hopefully without those d....... curved screens). Does anyone have an opinion how the OLED might compare with an LED-LCD TV tricked out with all the electronics that this TV promises? I know, theoretically, that the contrast ratio may be slightly better but what about the brightness level in a brightly lit room - I have heard OLEDs don't do well in this type of lighting situation.
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post #108 of 511 Old 01-18-2014, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Sound & Vision View Post

You can have a reference TV without paying THX for the use of their name and all that is associated with it.. Just as long as the calibration adjustments and panel quality are there. Remember VIZIO is thinking of the consumer and what they feel is a good price point to sell these TV's.

Indeed. I didn't really care about the THX certification. I was just surprised that they would come factory calibrated to D65. I thought that was a nice extra that Vizio is providing and demonstrates how much they are concerned with the quality on this series.
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post #109 of 511 Old 01-19-2014, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by efranzen View Post

Quote:

Each Reference Series panel will allegedly be factory calibrated to D65, though I heard no mention of ISF or THX specification. Hwang relayed that the Reference Series' software should give home hobbyists access to 10-point white balance, a CMS (Color Management System), and Gamma control—the TVs default to a 2.2 correction curve in order to operate more smoothly with most content sources.

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Originally Posted by efranzen View Post

I was just surprised that they would come factory calibrated to D65. I thought that was a nice extra that Vizio is providing and demonstrates how much they are concerned with the quality on this series.


We'll see. Time is money. By far the more import aspect of the R series is the full array local dimming offered for the first time at prices affordable for average enthusiasts. Assuming blacks comparable to the Sharp Elites, other manufacturers should have similar offerings for 2015. It appears that the consumer will be getting excellent value for the money, and for people like me, a potential calibrator's dream.

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post #110 of 511 Old 01-19-2014, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Sound & Vision View Post

You can have a reference TV without paying THX for the use of their name and all that is associated with it.. Just as long as the calibration adjustments and panel quality are there. Remember VIZIO is thinking of the consumer and what they feel is a good price point to sell these TV's.

You can also get a THX-certified calibration for any TV. Voila, it's THX-approved! Of course it costs more than a typical ISF calibration from Best Buy. With an LCD panel, that calibration will last, too—unlike on a plasma.

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post #111 of 511 Old 01-19-2014, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound & Vision View Post

With an LCD panel, that calibration will last, too—unlike on a plasma.

Don't make promises you can't keep, Mark. All displays drift. smile.gif

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post #112 of 511 Old 01-19-2014, 08:12 AM
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Don't make promises you can't keep, Mark. All displays drift. smile.gif

I assuredly did not say "last forever." Neveretheless, there's no comparison between the phosphors in a plasma and LED-lit LCD in terms of color stability and panel longevity—LED-lit LCD is much more stable over a longer period of time.
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post #113 of 511 Old 01-19-2014, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Sound & Vision View Post

You can have a reference TV without paying THX for the use of their name and all that is associated with it.. Just as long as the calibration adjustments and panel quality are there. Remember VIZIO is thinking of the consumer and what they feel is a good price point to sell these TV's.
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Originally Posted by efranzen View Post

Thanks for the link to the article. This is the first time that I've heard this about the new Reference series:

All THX cert really gives you is that the color's are accurate in that mode. It has nothing to do with grayscale adjustment. Every Panasonic plasma with a thx mode still needed calibration. THX just works to ensure the color LUTs are proper.

I do find the comment that it will come D65 interesting. Gamma 2.2 is not a big deal, the $260 Insignia I just bought for an extra football has a pretty good gamma out of the box and there is no adjustment for it.

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post #114 of 511 Old 01-19-2014, 09:20 AM
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For everyone that has an issue with Vizio removing 3D, please take it here

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510698/vizio-eliminates-3d-at-ces-2014

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post #115 of 511 Old 01-19-2014, 09:27 AM
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So, I really want the 70" screen size for my family room, and do I understand correctly that the R series will not have a 70"? If so, I'm wondering, for moderately bright rooms, if the P series 70" image quality will satisfy most viewers who could be characterized as "enthusiasts", as opposed to "videophiles". Would the benefit of 10 bit color with the R series be readily apparent when watching sports and news programming on HD cable service? What about current Blu-ray titles? What about 4K Blu-ray when finally available? If the 65" R series is going to be so superior that anybody will readily perceive it, maybe I could give up the extra screen real estate. Thanks for any tips!

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post #116 of 511 Old 01-19-2014, 10:26 AM
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I wont even consider LED/lCD until a 2014 '1080p' model can at least match the S60's Motion performance without any gimmicky soap opera mode or what have you that degrades or mucks with PQ. Plus dimming down the picture in order to achieve inky blacks. Am I in luck? :P

Panasonics big bad 4k LED is going for $5 grand for crying out loud.
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post #117 of 511 Old 01-19-2014, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

So, I really want the 70" screen size for my family room, and do I understand correctly that the R series will not have a 70"? If so, I'm wondering, for moderately bright rooms, if the P series 70" image quality will satisfy most viewers who could be characterized as "enthusiasts", as opposed to "videophiles". Would the benefit of 10 bit color with the R series be readily apparent when watching sports and news programming on HD cable service? What about current Blu-ray titles? What about 4K Blu-ray when finally available? If the 65" R series is going to be so superior that anybody will readily perceive it, maybe I could give up the extra screen real estate. Thanks for any tips!
I have questions along the same lines as the 10 bit question. Will a 10 bit display provide more shades (hence reduced banding or other color artifacts) with today's common sources (cable or OTA TV, Blu-Ray) with the current 709 color gamut or is this something that will only come into play if/when the expanded 2020 gamut is implemented? I have similar concerns about HDMI 2.0 which I gather goes along with 2020 and 60Hz input (correct?). Will it be needed and make the P series obsolete due to 8 bit panel and only HDMI 1.4. My uneducated guess is that 2020 things are some 5-10 years away and that any 4K sources we are likely to see before that will work on all existing 4K panels including the P series. However, I see concerns with current 4K sets as to whether there will be an HDMI 2.0 upgrade path. Will the P series need that at some point? Comments?
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post #118 of 511 Old 01-19-2014, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ball View Post

I have questions along the same lines as the 10 bit question. Will a 10 bit display provide more shades (hence reduced banding or other color artifacts) with today's common sources (cable or OTA TV, Blu-Ray) with the current 709 color gamut or is this something that will only come into play if/when the expanded 2020 gamut is implemented?

In theory, it ought to be possible to reduce color banding with a 10-bit panel, but this would require interpolating the rec 709 source to create intermediate shades of color that did not exist in the original source material. It would also require 10 bit processing through the entire input chain to the panel (which the Vizio Reference series apparently has...).

If the P Series has all of the same processing capability as the R Series and the only material difference is the 8 -bit panel versus the 10-bit panel, that should also mean that the P Series could in theory support Vizio's 80% coverage of rec 2020 with reduced color resolution (which could result in lightly worse color banding versus the banding with rec 709), though that might require a sottware/firmware upgrade...
Quote:
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I have similar concerns about HDMI 2.0 which I gather goes along with 2020 and 60Hz input (correct?). Will it be needed and make the P series obsolete due to 8 bit panel and only HDMI 1.4. My uneducated guess is that 2020 things are some 5-10 years away and that any 4K sources we are likely to see before that will work on all existing 4K panels including the P series. However, I see concerns with current 4K sets as to whether there will be an HDMI 2.0 upgrade path. Will the P series need that at some point? Comments?

I believe the P Series is HDMI 2.0 - the attached press release on the P Series makes reference to 'the latest HDMI standard for display of Ultra HD content up to 60 fps.'

http://store.vizio.com/news/vizio-announces-pricing-for-best-in-class-p-series-ultra-hd-full-array-led-smart-tv

-fafrd
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post #119 of 511 Old 01-19-2014, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Don't make promises you can't keep, Mark. All displays drift. smile.gif

I assuredly did not say "last forever." Neveretheless, there's no comparison between the phosphors in a plasma and LED-lit LCD in terms of color stability and panel longevity—LED-lit LCD is much more stable over a longer period of time.

True for the panels, not true for the inexpensive consumer components on the circuit boards. They all drift, sometimes substantially so, regardless of panel construction.
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post #120 of 511 Old 01-19-2014, 01:55 PM
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Im a 100% supporter of 6 month/12 month touch ups. It does two things IMO:

Keeps your display as reference as possible

Keeps a good relationship with the pro calibrator, who can be used for other HT advice down the road. Good acquaintance to have for audio and video, especially when you are getting ready to buy something.

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