Vizio Reference Series UHDTVs at CES 2014 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

My guess, regarding Best Buy being a possible channel for the new Vizio P and R Series, is that Vizio would limit them to Best Buy Magnolia stores. Even today you can't find high-end products, like the ZT Panasonic plasma series, in regular Best Buy stores. When Sharp was selling their excellent Elite LED tvs they were limited to Best Buy Magnolia stores and other "higher-end" electronic stores, like Ultimate Electronics. It may be that most of their sales will be through online stores (i.e. Amazon, Cleveland Plasma, et. al.) as we see today with most high-end flat panel displays.

You could be correct - the high-end plasmas are only available through Magnolia in the Bay Area as well (not in Best Buy). On the other hand, Best Buy does showcase the flagship panels of Samsung, Sony, and Sharp, so it's possible Vizio will try to position themselves in that same 'flagship' channel...

The pricing Vizio sets for the R Series will obviously be a critical factor: higher price=farther from Best Buy as a channel; lower price ($3000-3500)=higher likelihood of Best Buy as a Channel (though Best Buy would not qualify as one of the 'new' channels for the P and the R n any case...).

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post #182 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

You could be correct - the high-end plasmas are only available through Magnolia in the Bay Area as well (not in Best Buy). On the other hand, Best Buy does showcase the flagship panels of Samsung, Sony, and Sharp, so it's possible Vizio will try to position themselves in that same 'flagship' channel...

The pricing Vizio sets for the R Series will obviously be a critical factor: higher price=farther from Best Buy as a channel; lower price ($3000-3500)=higher likelihood of Best Buy as a Channel (though Best Buy would not qualify as one of the 'new' channels for the P and the R n any case...).

-fafrd

I agree with everything you say except what I've highlighted above. You *may* be correct, but if so this has changed. Last year (or was it in 2012?) I went into a local Best Buy multiple times wanting to see the Sharp Elite LED sets and they told me they were sold exclusively at their Magnolia stores.

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post #183 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

I agree with everything you say except what I've highlighted above. You *may* be correct, but if so this has changed. Last year (or was it in 2012?) I went into a local Best Buy multiple times wanting to see the Sharp Elite LED sets and they told me they were sold exclusively at their Magnolia stores.

You're correct, and I believe the situation was the same last year with the Panasonic ZT60 and VT60 (though my local Best Buy did have the Samsung F8500 plasma).

No doubt part of it has to do with how 'high-end' a set is (rare to see a TV costing more than $10,000 in a Best Buy) and part of it has to do with how much the manufacturers are willing to pay for the showcase space (what channels they choose to invest in).

The fact that Best Buy is currently showcasing the flagship 4K LED/LCDs from Sony and Samsung tells me that Vizio would probably have the option to have the Reference Series treated in the same way (if they are will to pay Best Buy's price).

It's likely that even the Elite could have been showcased at Best Buy, but Sharp realized that they were unlikely to sell any TVs at that price through that channel and so chose not to make that investment (and invest in showcasing through Magnolia instead).

If the 65" Reference Series is priced higher than (or even equal to) the 65" flagship 4K LED/LTVs of Sony and Sharp, it would make little sense for Vizio to invest in showcasing them at Best Buy (and they probably don't intend to actually sell any meaningful number this Christmas).

If the 65" R Series is priced significantly below the price of the top-tier brands 65" flagship panels, to me it means that Vizio does intend to sell a (relatively) large number of them this year and so investing in showcasing through a channel like Best By probably does make sense (though not lower-tier channels such as Costco and/or Walmart).

The pricing that gets announced will be earliest indication of where Vizio is trying to go with this Reference Series initiative...

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post #184 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

You're correct, and I believe the situation was the same last year with the Panasonic ZT60 and VT60 (though my local Best Buy did have the Samsung F8500 plasma).

No doubt part of it has to do with how 'high-end' a set is (rare to see a TV costing more than $10,000 in a Best Buy) and part of it has to do with how much the manufacturers are willing to pay for the showcase space (what channels they choose to invest in).

The fact that Best Buy is currently showcasing the flagship 4K LED/LCDs from Sony and Samsung tells me that Vizio would probably have the option to have the Reference Series treated in the same way (if they are will to pay Best Buy's price).

It's likely that even the Elite could have been showcased at Best Buy, but Sharp realized that they were unlikely to sell any TVs at that price through that channel and so chose not to make that investment (and invest in showcasing through Magnolia instead).

If the 65" Reference Series is priced higher than (or even equal to) the 65" flagship 4K LED/LTVs of Sony and Sharp, it would make little sense for Vizio to invest in showcasing them at Best Buy (and they probably don't intend to actually sell any meaningful number this Christmas).

If the 65" R Series is priced significantly below the price of the top-tier brands 65" flagship panels, to me it means that Vizio does intend to sell a (relatively) large number of them this year and so investing in showcasing through a channel like Best By probably does make sense (though not lower-tier channels such as Costco and/or Walmart).

The pricing that gets announced will be earliest indication of where Vizio is trying to go with this Reference Series initiative...

-fafrd

Good points...I concur with everyone of them!

I'm excited about the Vizio reference series and I'm truly hoping the price of the 65" will be very competitive, and if that means they may end up being showcased in Best Buy and other B&M stores, that would be great for all concerned.

My main interest in the R series is having a good replacement for my Pioneer KURO Elite should it meet with an early demise. I was excited in reading about the Sharp Elite, for when they were still in production I was sold on them and would have easily chosen it as a replacement for the KURO. The R Series, if it lives up to all the hype, will surpass the Sharp Elite by quite a bit with all the amazing technology built into it. The only downside from my perspective are the SIZES...the 65" is smaller than I would like (I would love to move up to at least a 70", if not larger)...and the 120" is much larger than I would like. I've said it on this thread (and elsewhere) before; I wish Vizio had chosen to compete with LG, Sony, Samsung and Toshiba's 84" UHDTVs by producing their own 84". That size would be perfect for my setup!!
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post #185 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

Good points...I concur with everyone of them!

I'm excited about the Vizio reference series and I'm truly hoping the price of the 65" will be very competitive, and if that means they may end up being showcased in Best Buy and other B&M stores, that would be great for all concerned.

My main interest in the R series is having a good replacement for my Pioneer KURO Elite should it meet with an early demise. I was excited in reading about the Sharp Elite, for when they were still in production I was sold on them and would have easily chosen it as a replacement for the KURO. The R Series, if it lives up to all the hype, will surpass the Sharp Elite by quite a bit with all the amazing technology built into it. The only downside from my perspective are the SIZES...the 65" is smaller than I would like (I would love to move up to at least a 70", if not larger)...and the 120" is much larger than I would like. I've said it on this thread (and elsewhere) before; I wish Vizio had chosen to compete with LG, Sony, Samsung and Toshiba's 84" UHDTVs by producing their own 84". That size would be perfect for my setup!!


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post #186 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

My main interest in the R series is having a good replacement for my Pioneer KURO Elite should it meet with an early demise. I was excited in reading about the Sharp Elite, for when they were still in production I was sold on them and would have easily chosen it as a replacement for the KURO. The R Series, if it lives up to all the hype, will surpass the Sharp Elite by quite a bit with all the amazing technology built into it.

Between the larger number of dimming zones than even the 70" Elite, the significantly greater amount of processing power available, Dolby's involvement (hopefully :-) in the FALD implementation, and the Active Pixel Tuning pixel-level compensation (which is also hopefully another area where Dolby contributed), I agree that the 65" Reference Series offers the potential to surpass the Sharp Elite. Whether it does, in fact, or falls short, completely depends on the quality of Vizio's engineering effort and their ability to execute. Let's hope they succeed to prove to all of us and the entire world that they are now a Company that belongs in the class of the storied Sharp of old...

The expanded color gamut is icing on the cake (as is the 4K panel), but I just hope they do as good or better of a job in the FALD implementation as Sharp did on the Elite.
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The only downside from my perspective are the SIZES...the 65" is smaller than I would like (I would love to move up to at least a 70", if not larger)...and the 120" is much larger than I would like. I've said it on this thread (and elsewhere) before; I wish Vizio had chosen to compete with LG, Sony, Samsung and Toshiba's 84" UHDTVs by producing their own 84". That size would be perfect for my setup!!

Coming from where they have been up to now, I will be very impressed if Vizio just manages to get an Elite-topping 65" Reference Series out the door this year (on top of the other three lines they are launching with FALD). The 120" doesn't matter to me at all and I think it would be an enormous shame for Vizio and all of us if any attention paid to the 120" Reference Panel ended up damaging the chances of the 65" Reference Series making it to market this year.

If Vizio is as successful with the 65" Reference Series this year as I am hoping, I'm pretty sure 2015 will be the year of expanded size offerings in the Series (including your 84" ;-). So just keep your fingers crossed that your Kuro can last another 18 months and you should be fine biggrin.gif ...

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post #187 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Wow, wow wow, slow down your role, beat you KURO Elite? eek.gif Don't have your hopes up to soon, it remains to be seen. wink.gif

I believe djoberg was referring to the 65" Vizio Reference Series besting the Sharp Elite LED/LCD, not his Kuro (though this should be pretty much the same standard, in theory at least :-).

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post #188 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 04:22 PM
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Wow, wow wow, slow down your role, beat you KURO Elite? eek.gif Don't have your hopes up to soon, it remains to be seen. wink.gif

I'm not *exactly* sure what the first part of your post is saying, but regarding the second part, I am HOPEFUL that the Vizio R Series will be a great flat panel that *could* be a replacement for my KURO. But I'm also a realist, so I know my hopes may be dashed when the Reference Series actually hits the market. From what I have read, from trusted sources (like Scott Wilkenson here at AVS who reported from CES 2014 on the R Series), the Reference Series may indeed live up to all the hype. And if it does, it will even be better than the Sharp Elite which won over quite a few plasma lovers. I have always favored plasma due to its excellent black levels, shadow details, colors, and a more *natural* picture, but the Sharp Elite is a worthy contender in all of these areas, and the R Series may very well surpass the PQ of the Sharp Elite.

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post #189 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

I'm not *exactly* sure what the first part of your post is saying, but regarding the second part, I am HOPEFUL that the Vizio R Series will be a great flat panel that *could* be a replacement for my KURO. But I'm also a realist, so I know my hopes may be dashed when the Reference Series actually hits the market. From what I have read, from trusted sources (like Scott Wilkenson here at AVS who reported from CES 2014 on the R Series), the Reference Series may indeed live up to all the hype. And if it does, it will even be better than the Sharp Elite which won over quite a few plasma lovers. I have always favored plasma due to its excellent black levels, shadow details, colors, and a more *natural* picture, but the Sharp Elite is a worthy contender in all of these areas, and the R Series may very well surpass the PQ of the Sharp Elite.

+10

(and with 4K pixel resolution and the potential of expanded color gamut to boot!)
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post #190 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

I'm not *exactly* sure what the first part of your post is saying, but regarding the second part, I am HOPEFUL that the Vizio R Series will be a great flat panel that *could* be a replacement for my KURO. But I'm also a realist, so I know my hopes may be dashed when the Reference Series actually hits the market. From what I have read, from trusted sources (like Scott Wilkenson here at AVS who reported from CES 2014 on the R Series), the Reference Series may indeed live up to all the hype. And if it does, it will even be better than the Sharp Elite which won over quite a few plasma lovers. I have always favored plasma due to its excellent black levels, shadow details, colors, and a more *natural* picture, but the Sharp Elite is a worthy contender in all of these areas, and the R Series may very well surpass the PQ of the Sharp Elite.

It would be nice if the Vizio could be at par with the Sharp Elite, it would be shocking if it beat it , not in Smart crap features/processor but in picture quality.

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post #191 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

It would be nice if the Vizio could be at par with the Sharp Elite, it would be shocking if it beat it , not in Smart crap features/processor but in picture quality.

I see it a bit differently. Technically, it should be possible for the Vizio Reference Series to best the Sharp Elite in picture quality for several reasons:

1/ greater number of dimming zones

2/ significantly great amount of processing power available, allowing new algorithms including pixel-level dimming compensation to be deployed

3/ involvement of Dolby as a partner and adoption of 'Dolby Vision' FALD technology

4/ no Sharp Elite chroma bug (a minimum to hope for with Dolby's involvement)

In addition, it would not surprise me if there have been advancements in other key technologies such as VA LCD native contrast levels and LED brightness over the past 3 years...

So in my assessment, the only reason that the Vizio Reference does not best the Sharp Elite is because Vizio's engineers are not yet up to the level of Sharp's from several years ago, and that despite the assistance of Dolby, they were incapable of matching the quality of Sharp's engineering effort...

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post #192 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 04:52 PM
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(and with 4K pixel resolution and the potential of expanded color gamut to boot!)

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It would be nice if the Vizio could be at par with the Sharp Elite, it would be shocking if it beat it , not in Smart crap features/processor but in picture quality.

Personally, I don't think it will be shocking if the Reference Series beats the Sharp Elite in PQ. In addition to 4K pixel resolution and the expanded color gamut of no less than 10 Bit (mentioned by fafrd), there is also Dolby Vision video processing built in. This added feature really got Scott Wilkenson's attention, so much so that he was able to say that he is finally excited about UHDTV. I have a lot of respect for Scott and value his opinion immensely; if he's excited, then I'm excited!

Again, I want to "shout from the rooftops" that I'm an avid plasma fan. I simply LOVE my KURO Elite! I have a dedicated theater room and so I have complete darkness at all times (I do have one window in the room but I have a room-darkening shade) and the PQ is phenomenal. I've owned it since 2009 and I still stand in awe of it! But I have read of others whose KURO died (it happens!) and so I want something to replace it with (immediately) in that unlikely event. Plus, I must admit that I have had the desire for quite some time to upgrade to a bigger size. A 60" is no slouch, but my room is more than capable of supporting up to a 120" screen. Ideally I would love an 84". So, even if my KURO doesn't die, I would be willing to buy another flat panel that was equal or better in PQ to get the size I want (I would then move my KURO to another room, perhaps our living room).

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post #193 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

I see it a bit differently. Technically, it should be possible for the Vizio Reference Series to best the Sharp Elite in picture quality for several reasons:

1/ greater number of dimming zones

2/ significantly great amount of processing power available, allowing new algorithms including pixel-level dimming compensation to be deployed

3/ involvement of Dolby as a partner and adoption of 'Dolby Vision' FALD technology

4/ no Sharp Elite chroma bug (a minimum to hope for with Dolby's involvement)

In addition, it would not surprise me if there have been advancements in other key technologies such as VA LCD native contrast levels and LED brightness over the past 3 years...

So in my assessment, the only reason that the Vizio Reference does not best the Sharp Elite is because Vizio's engineers are not yet up to the level of Sharp's from several years ago, and that despite the assistance of Dolby, they were incapable of matching the quality of Sharp's engineering effort...

-fafrd

I just saw your post after adding my last post. Of course I agree with you 100%.

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post #194 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 05:20 PM
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I just saw your post after adding my last post. Of course I agree with you 100%.

Here's to hoping that these Vizio engineers have done their homework for the past two years and 2014 is the year they prove to us all that they deserve to move to the front of the class!

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post #195 of 506 Old 01-25-2014, 05:39 PM
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Here's to hoping that these Vizio engineers have done their homework for the past two years and 2014 is the year they prove to us all that they deserve to move to the front of the class!

-fafrd

Ditto! cool.gif

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post #196 of 506 Old 01-26-2014, 04:07 AM
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Yes, but you'd have to go all the way back to CES 2013 for that. *cough* XVT *cough*

That's exactly my point.
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I'm still curious where they would even sell this thing. Even the 65 inch set I don't see competing very well at Costco - Costco would likely dump it in favor of sets that the majority of people actually buy.

Obviously, the Reference product is not headed for Costco if it comes into being.
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How does that work? Are you talking about purchasing an extended warranty through Costco?

Yes, the best place to buy SquareTrade warranties is Costco, no matter where you bought the TV.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #197 of 506 Old 01-26-2014, 05:18 AM
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This might be another producer of 65 inch panels with WCG and 10 bit for R series.

Innolux has begun production of 40-, 42-, 50-, 58-, 65- and 85-inch Ultra HD TV panels and 65-inch WCG (wide color gamut) Ultra HD TV panels, the sources indicated.
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post #198 of 506 Old 01-26-2014, 06:37 AM
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How does that work? Are you talking about purchasing an extended warranty through Costco?

Yes, the best place to buy SquareTrade warranties is Costco, no matter where you bought the TV.

 

This is true; the price is great compared to the same coverage directly out of Amazon.  However, when I bought the SquareTrade warranty (for my Amazon TV) through Costco, the warranty got so hopelessly mangled that I had to call SquareTrade directly to sort it out.  They corrected the problem instantly, and sounded as if they were used to having to do so.  If you go the Costco route for a TV purchased elsewhere, I would suggest just calling ST to verify.  Warranties after all, are about peace of mind.


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post #199 of 506 Old 01-26-2014, 11:57 AM
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Yes, the best place to buy SquareTrade warranties is Costco, no matter where you bought the TV.

Good to know - thanks.

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post #200 of 506 Old 01-26-2014, 01:57 PM
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This is true; the price is great compared to the same coverage directly out of Amazon.  However, when I bought the SquareTrade warranty (for my Amazon TV) through Costco, the warranty got so hopelessly mangled that I had to call SquareTrade directly to sort it out.  They corrected the problem instantly, and sounded as if they were used to having to do so.  If you go the Costco route for a TV purchased elsewhere, I would suggest just calling ST to verify.  Warranties after all, are about peace of mind.

Thanks for that info. I have two TVs bought elsewhere (Amazon and TigerDirect to be exact) with Costco-purchased SquareTrade warranties. Neither has needed any service thus far (knock on wood).

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #201 of 506 Old 01-26-2014, 02:50 PM
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I know this is a old post, but we might be in for a surprise from Vizio R series.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1379414468

This will tell you who is supplying the panels

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130911PD217.html

Vizio is expected to receive panels from AUO for the 50-inch and above sizes, but the 84-inch unit is expected to be supplied from LG Display. Foxconn Electronics (Hon Hai Precision Industry) is also expected to supply panels to Vizio
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post #202 of 506 Old 01-26-2014, 02:56 PM
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I think if any get out in first qtr its gonna be the P.

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post #203 of 506 Old 01-26-2014, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I think if any get out in first qtr its gonna be the P.

Agree. And since the Digitimes article was from early September, I'd probably give the information Vizio put out at CES a great deal more weight than the apparent schedule as of September last year.

Since Vizio has said nothing about the release date of the M-Series at CES, it is likely that the release date for that set will be late Q1 in the best case (since to release by mid-Q1, everything would have had to already be in process by CES and so they probably would have taken the opportunity to broadcast a release date that was just around the corner).

So my read is M-Series gets out just before the end of March best-case and the release of the P will likely lag that by at least 1-2 months.

If we are lucky, the P Series will be released in time for the 2014 AV Shootout in May, but it would take perfect execution and a great deal of good luck for the 65" Reference Series to be released in time for the VE Shootout as well.

So bottom-line, despite the Digitimes article from last September, it will surprise me if we see any Vizio UHDTVs released before the end of Q1...

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post #204 of 506 Old 01-27-2014, 09:22 AM
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Anyone know if the new dolby HDR feature and higher bit panels will provide any benefits to current content. ie any sort of intelligent 'upscale' benefit for the color range?
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post #205 of 506 Old 01-27-2014, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Anyone know if the new dolby HDR feature and higher bit panels will provide any benefits to current content. ie any sort of intelligent 'upscale' benefit for the color range?

The 6 cores along with the Dolby and 10 bit hardware will do a excellent job!
This is the oppo of TV'S
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post #206 of 506 Old 01-27-2014, 02:56 PM
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I'm still confused, will it be expanding the source color intelligently somehow or will it display it in its native color gamut?
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post #207 of 506 Old 01-29-2014, 07:34 AM
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I wonder how much heat that 120" Vizio Reference would give off. In the south we probably only could watch it in the winter.
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post #208 of 506 Old 01-29-2014, 08:09 AM
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Any reference series smaller than 65" rumors out there? 55" or 60" ? All I have been reading is just 65".
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post #209 of 506 Old 01-29-2014, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by videoray View Post

I wonder how much heat that 120" Vizio Reference would give off. In the south we probably only could watch it in the winter.

About the same amount of heat as four 60-inch LED-lit LCD TVs, which could be anything between 300-600 watts, depending on settings. Nothing a little bit of air-conditioning can't handle.


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post #210 of 506 Old 01-29-2014, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

About the same amount of heat as four 60-inch LED-lit LCD TVs, which could be anything between 300-600 watts, depending on settings. Nothing a little bit of air-conditioning can't handle.

Four?! Why 4? Wouldn't it be the same as 2 60 inchers? I'm not so good at math, but isn't it 60 + 60=120?
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