Official 2014 Vizio Exxx-Bx Series owners thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 10:39 AM
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Being right out of the box, I can understand this. I assume you can enable/disable local dimming? And it comes disabled? I don't recall how my XVT474SV was 3 years ago in regards to settings, but living with that excellent tv for a few months, I can tell you that only the center zones should be lit, with the rest of the screen having the zones disabled, and therefore being very very black. If it stays lit like that due to the small amount of zones on this series, I'll be staying far away, and pray the P series at the end of the year resembles the TruLED Vizio I had and foolishly sold 3 years ago mad.gif Maybe the "Pixel Tuning" in the M and P series actually offers good tech and isn't a gimmick? Fingers crossed!

Like the others here, I will be watching this thread closely biggrin.gif Thank You for posting any info, we are all drooling!

EDIT: I now realize that with so few dimming zones, they are strips covering large parts of the screen on these lower end models, explaining the light covering the screen from left to right. I will definitely be waiting for reviews of the M and P series to see if the Pixel Tuning does anything substantial to fix this.
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post #182 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinss View Post

I figured that wouldn't happen with a full array led.
Do we need a new term for these sets? "Full array" sounds very wonderful and impressive, until you learn that these sets only have 5 or 6 zones. With 16 on the 70" models. And the array is really just stripes across the set (as far as we can tell so far).

I really hope some magazines or other journalists can wring out the backlight layout on the various models from Vizio, and that we can see some tests comparing the different numbers of backlights.

- Jasen.
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post #183 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

Do we need a new term for these sets? "Full array" sounds very wonderful and impressive, until you learn that these sets only have 5 or 6 zones. With 16 on the 70" models. And the array is really just stripes across the set (as far as we can tell so far).

I really hope some magazines or other journalists can wring out the backlight layout on the various models from Vizio, and that we can see some tests comparing the different numbers of backlights
.

- Jasen.

Agreed. One would hope that the Fine Pixel Tuning(If I'm understanding it correctly) in the M and P series would fix that problem if it can turn on/off single led's within a given zone in order to kill the blooming. IF none of these new models do the dimming correctly, it's barely any better than edge-lit, if at all. Like I typed before, Fingers crossed! I've had several vizio sets in the past 5 years and all have served me well. I will keep buying and upgrading, in hopes that someday they hit the mark, and beat one or all of the big name companies at their own game:)

Maybe we got too excited over all the CES press releases?
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post #184 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 10:56 AM
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My e480i is out for delivery. I'll take pics once its all hooked up! I hope its great!
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post #185 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 11:07 AM
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I'm glad we're coming back down to Earth with the opinion on these sets, but we also shouldn't swing too hard in the other direction. From what I can tell, it's still a really good picture for a sub-$600 LED TV.

I was just about ready to pull the trigger on a 2013 E-model 42" when I came here and saw that the 2014 models were already being released. At the end of the day, as long as these sets have an improvement in PQ over the 2013 models, which were all reviewed very favorably for what they were, I'll be happy.
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post #186 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by OldSenileGuy View Post

I'm glad we're coming back down to Earth with the opinion on these sets, but we also shouldn't swing too hard in the other direction. From what I can tell, it's still a really good picture for a sub-$600 LED TV.

At the end of the day, as long as these sets have an improvement in PQ over the 2013 models, which were all reviewed very favorably for what they were, I'll be happy. I was just about ready to pull the trigger on a 2013 E-model 42" when I came here and saw that the 2014 models were already being released.

Thank You for reminding me of that. Regardless of what happens, Vizio put everyone on notice that they are not only here to stay, but are here to shake things up and push a standard that will hopefully make others take notice. I say good riddance to the edge-lit craze!!
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post #187 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

Do we need a new term for these sets? "Full array" sounds very wonderful and impressive, until you learn that these sets only have 5 or 6 zones. With 16 on the 70" models. And the array is really just stripes across the set (as far as we can tell so far).

I really hope some magazines or other journalists can wring out the backlight layout on the various models from Vizio, and that we can see some tests comparing the different numbers of backlights.

- Jasen.

I think your instinct is correct, but you are focusing on the wrong term. I believe these sets are 'Full Array' (taking Vizio at their word) but with only 5 or 6 dimming zones, that is a real stretch of the term 'local'

If the diagonal of the largest dimming zone is anything more than 1% of the diagonal of the overall panel, I would suggest that is a Full Array which is not 'Local' Dimming but something like 'Area' Dimming. So for example:

Full Array Local Dimming = diagonal of largest dimming zone < 10% of panel diagonal
Full Array Area Dimming = multiple dimming zones and diagonal of largest dimming zone > 10% of panel diagonal
Full Array Global Dimming = only the entire panel can be dimmed (no zones)

By hooking up a PC to the panel and moving the mouse around (with local dimming set to HIGH), it should be possible to spot the boundaries of the individual dimming zones - I'll be very interested to understand how the 5 or 6 dimming zones on these smaller Vizio sets are structured...

-fafrd
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post #188 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post



By hooking up a PC to the panel and moving the mouse around (with local dimming set to HIGH), it should be possible to spot the boundaries of the individual dimming zones - I'll be very interested to understand how the 5 or 6 dimming zones on these smaller Vizio sets are structured...

-fafrd


Maybe a dumb question but, how do I get a complete black screen on the laptop to test this?
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post #189 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 11:43 AM
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OK after some more time with my Visio E 40" here's a couple more observations.

A couple nights ago I wound up with the small DirectTV logo bouncing all over my black background. When you know there's only 5 zones and then you see this "glowing" (bloomed) Logo bouncing through them vertically…… and yeah they all light up to where you can see where they are. Not the most impressive look at the E model's technology. Huge bloom and clunky looking implementation.

But the conflicting observation is it all works well when you have quality images being displayed. It works really well and the images it is displaying with the settings I gave back on page 4, I think, are really sweet. More organic and clean looking with my DirecTV and streaming capabilities than I see in Best Buy with LCD. It is not harsh, colors are rich, with even 100 on the backlight and the display just subtly keeps all that potential on tap. If your contrast gives you proper white detail, then just pick what amount of FL you want to watch at.

I have not yet seen any black borders vertically on the sides that didn't look uniformly black. So with all its seeming potential for clunky implementation in the E series, check out the pictures it gives to you. cool.gifeek.gif
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post #190 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinss View Post

Maybe a dumb question but, how do I get a complete black screen on the laptop to test this?

That is a good question (to which I don't know the answer :-(. I believe it was Speakerphile that originally suggested this technique, so perhaps he has the answer...

-fafrd
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post #191 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

OK after some more time with my Visio E 40" here's a couple more observations.

A couple nights ago I wound up with the small DirectTV logo bouncing all over my black background. When you know there's only 5 zones and then you see this "glowing" (bloomed) Logo bouncing through them vertically…… and yeah they all light up to where you can see where they are. Not the most impressive look at the E model's technology. Huge bloom and clunky looking implementation.

But the conflicting observation is it all works well when you have quality images being displayed. It works really well and the images it is displaying with the settings I gave back on page 4, I think, are really sweet. More organic and clean looking with my DirecTV and streaming capabilities than I see in Best Buy with LCD. It is not harsh, colors are rich, with even 100 on the backlight and the display just subtly keeps all that potential on tap. If your contrast gives you proper white detail, then just pick what amount of FL you want to watch at.

I have not yet seen any black borders vertically on the sides that didn't look uniformly black. So with all its seeming potential for clunky implementation in the E series, check out the pictures it gives to you. cool.gifeek.gif

Thanks for the additional observations. I suspect that Vizio has added a bit of new secret sauce into the mix, and the contrasting results with a bouncing logo and real content may be an indication of that.

From what you witnessed with the bouncing logo, do you believe you have an idea of the boundaries of the 5 dimming zones? If so, any kind of picture you could sketch would be very interesting. Early guesses were 5 horizontal dimming zones extending across the entire panel - is this what you saw?

I found this article on local dimming and the halo effect: http://www.rtings.com/info/what-is-local-dimming

I don't know if there is anyway you can get ahold of the same movie (it is Tron II, isn't it?), but the example they show does a wonderful job of contrasting what the same image looks like with local dimming OFF on an LCD, local dimming ON an LCD, and the ideal image from a plasma. If there is any way you can check how your E Model displays the same image that would be fantastic. And if you can't get ahold of the same content, maybe there is another example someone can provide or point you to.

I honestly don't give a hoot about halo during credits or logos, but if the E Series shows the kind of halo effect from dark content shown in this Tron II example, that would be a be a big problem for me...

-fafrd
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post #192 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 12:20 PM
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It's pretty basic, just picture 5 roughly equal height zones, yes spreading across the entire width. And I did just a few minutes ago think maybe I saw a difference (faint) in the right side vertical of a 4x3 letterbox. If so it was quick, barely perceptible unless you're looking for it. Maybe the Best Buy crack wasn't fair as certainly in the Magnolia areas the LCDs look great. More was comparing to their's or Costco's outside racks were you buy these from.
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post #193 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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It's pretty basic, just picture 5 roughly equal height zones, yes spreading across the entire width. And I did just a few minutes ago think maybe I saw a difference (faint) in the right side vertical of a 4x3 letterbox. If so it was quick, barely perceptible unless you're looking for it. Maybe the Best Buy crack wasn't fair as certainly in the Magnolia areas the LCDs look great. More was comparing to their's or Costco's outside racks were you buy these from.

Great - thanks (and no need for a picture - your description is clear).

I just don't understand how Vizio can deliver any kid of local dimming performance with 5 horizontal zones...

I mean, that's the same kind of zone structure you would find on an Edge-Lit-Local-Dimming (EELD) panel...

The full array should provide some improvement in image uniformity, but the halo from this 5-zone horizontal FALD should not be any better than you would get with an EELD panel.

If you are not seeing halo and the black levels, black detail, and contrast are good (on dark material and in a dark room), that is great, but it is a mystery...

-fafrd
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post #194 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 01:09 PM
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Another newbie question here: I'm pondering getting one of the new E-series, in 39", 40", or 42". It seems likely that the smart version each model will not be much more money than the not-smart version. On the other hand, I had not planned on getting a smart TV (prefer to have a separate streaming box with more versatile controller) and I don't care about 120Hz. And I've wondered about turn-on time, after reading a few posts on various forums regarding slow turn-on times. It makes me wonder: Is turn-on time for a smart TV typically longer than turn-on time for the comparable non-smart model?

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post #195 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 01:13 PM
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Oh my god.. Just played Resident Evil 6 on Calibrated DARK, Watched Kick-Ass 2 the e480i is incredible. I have never seen this deep inky blacks before on a LED TV. I am so happy. NO flashlighting, NO ghosting its PERFECT! I am SO HAPPY guys! I will take pictures with my DSLR to show you guys just HOW AMAZING the blacks and whites are on this TV. Time to play with this TV more!
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post #196 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 01:32 PM
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For those want to test blooming on their new sets, try The Strangers (with Scott Speedman and Liv Tyler). Watch for dark scenes when the creepy killers are wearing the masks in a dark scene, or watch for panning scenes throughout the house, showing lit candles inside. The blooming on my otherwise stellar XVT474SV 3 years ago, distracted me the entire time. After that movie, blooming was always on my mind and it never went away, I started looking for, and noticing it more often than I wanted to admit. But when you're viewing a movie where everything is lit, I never saw a better picture in my life eek.gif

There were many other movies that a few of us would post in those threads to test for blooming. Off hand, another one I recall was Inception, where he reached into the black safe on the wall, and there would be blooming around his hand, very unsightly mad.gif

I pray the higher tiered models deal with this better, otherwise I may wait until 2015 to see what strides might me made to tame blooming/halos. If it wasn't for the lack of zones and how the LED lights are used in each zone, nothing beats true, full array local dimming.

Note: I see some people keeping their back lights at 100. I fiddled with my 553 and 474 a lot while owning them, and settled between 16 and 25, or something low like that, Try it out and see how the picture looks,
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post #197 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonmandts View Post

For those want to test blooming on their new sets, try The Strangers (with Scott Speedman and Liv Tyler). Watch for dark scenes when the creepy killers are wearing the masks in a dark scene, or watch for panning scenes throughout the house, showing lit candles inside. The blooming on my otherwise stellar XVT474SV 3 years ago, distracted me the entire time. After that movie, blooming was always on my mind and it never went away, I started looking for, and noticing it more often than I wanted to admit. But when you're viewing a movie where everything is lit, I never saw a better picture in my life eek.gif

There were many other movies that a few of us would post in those threads to test for blooming. Off hand, another one I recall was Inception, where he reached into the black safe on the wall, and there would be blooming around his hand, very unsightly mad.gif

I pray the higher tiered models deal with this better, otherwise I may wait until 2015 to see what strides might me made to tame blooming/halos. If it wasn't for the lack of zones and how the LED lights are used in each zone, nothing beats true, full array local dimming.

Note: I see some people keeping their back lights at 100. I fiddled with my 553 and 474 a lot while owning them, and settled between 16 and 25, or something low like that, Try it out and see how the picture looks,

It should be possible to test for halo / blooming with still images, right? Is there a repository of good images from actual movies to test for local-dimming halo/blooming (like the one I found from Tron II)???

People have such goof things to say about these panels, but really want to know how they perform on an example like the Tron II image when viewed in a completely dark room...

-fafrd
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post #198 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 02:52 PM
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Can someone confirm some things, I'm thinking of picking 55 inch at local sams club. 

 

1) http://store.vizio.com/eseries/e550ib2.html specs shows this LCD only has 12 active zones, while the 50 inch version has 16.  Is this true?  Not sure why would they do less active zones on a bigger screen?

 

2) However, if you look at specs under color it states 16.7 million colors (10 bits).  While the 50 inch version shows same thing except 8 bits.  Is this true that this panel is a 10 bit panel?

 

Thanks! Great wealth of info in this thread

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post #199 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by slashtom View Post

Can someone confirm some things, I'm thinking of picking 55 inch at local sams club. 

1) http://store.vizio.com/eseries/e550ib2.html specs shows this LCD only has 12 active zones, while the 50 inch version has 16.  Is this true?  Not sure why would they do less active zones on a bigger screen?

2) However, if you look at specs under color it states 16.7 million colors (10 bits).  While the 50 inch version shows same thing except 8 bits.  Is this true that this panel is a 10 bit panel?

Thanks! Great wealth of info in this thread

Interesting...

How did you get to that page - I cannot find a way to get there from 'Find All TVs'

-fafrd
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post #200 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 03:42 PM
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Interesting...

How did you get to that page - I cannot find a way to get there from 'Find All TVs'

-fafrd

I had to keep scrolling down on the eseries portion of the store.vizio.com  

 

I'm comparing the 50 inch vs the 55 inch.  

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post #201 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I had to keep scrolling down on the eseries portion of the store.vizio.com  

I'm comparing the 50 inch vs the 55 inch.  

the e550ib2 says 16.7M colors but that is 8-bit, not10. It is a typo.

-fafrd
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post #202 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 03:56 PM
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Oh my god.. Just played Resident Evil 6 on Calibrated DARK, Watched Kick-Ass 2 the e480i is incredible. I have never seen this deep inky blacks before on a LED TV. I am so happy. NO flashlighting, NO ghosting its PERFECT! I am SO HAPPY guys! I will take pictures with my DSLR to show you guys just HOW AMAZING the blacks and whites are on this TV. Time to play with this TV more!

I am still exploring mine and now that you mentioned Calibrated Dark, have gone there. Yeah dang it looks good too. I put Riddick from Amazon streaming rentals on, knowing from mention on projector forum it has pretty good low light details and is a good transfer. I tweaked from whatever their settings were to still Medium on the Black Detail adjustment, to 58 Backlight, 48 Brightness, 74 Contrast, 50 Color and 56 Sharpness. Local Dimming ON. Looks good, adjust this factory setting to taste as well, as it looks pretty good to start.

Have gone back into the 1st Calibrated mode and further tweaked, reflected in original trial settings on page 4. Now Backlight still at 100, Brightness at 54, Contrast down to 68, Color at 48-50, Tint at +3 and sharpness at 54. You can do a lot of fine tuning to taste of course. And some sources are different than others. Master of the obvious here. biggrin.gif
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post #203 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by slashtom View Post

Can someone confirm some things, I'm thinking of picking 55 inch at local sams club. 

1) http://store.vizio.com/eseries/e550ib2.html specs shows this LCD only has 12 active zones, while the 50 inch version has 16.  Is this true?  Not sure why would they do less active zones on a bigger screen?

It says 12 zones on the box.
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post #204 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 04:19 PM
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Another newbie question here: I'm pondering getting one of the new E-series, in 39", 40", or 42". It seems likely that the smart version each model will not be much more money than the not-smart version. On the other hand, I had not planned on getting a smart TV (prefer to have a separate streaming box with more versatile controller) and I don't care about 120Hz. And I've wondered about turn-on time, after reading a few posts on various forums regarding slow turn-on times. It makes me wonder: Is turn-on time for a smart TV typically longer than turn-on time for the comparable non-smart model?

i have the 40 inch smart E series and it doesnt take no longer than 2 seconds to turn on and 10 seconds for it to connect to my wifi so honestly its pretty quick maybe for a larger tv it would take longer though im not sure.

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post #205 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 04:27 PM
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anyone know whats the best settings for audio? i have an E400i-B2

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post #206 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 04:42 PM
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anyone know whats the best settings for audio? i have an E400i-B2

Let your ears be the judge.
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post #207 of 3215 Old 01-17-2014, 04:45 PM
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The simulated surround sounds reasonably crisp, maybe more clear than with it off (? what do other owners think ?) And of course you can fart around with the equalizer. All up to individual taste.
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post #208 of 3215 Old 01-18-2014, 03:27 AM
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I believe someone was asking about how the black bars look at the top and bottom. It's hard to get good pictures with the Iphone but here are 2 with the lights on and off.


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post #209 of 3215 Old 01-18-2014, 03:34 AM
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Wow!

 

Is that the 55 inch?  

 

Also how is the contrast ratio with other tvs you have seen?  I'm a little worried that the 50/55 inch share a 2mil to 1 dcr.

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post #210 of 3215 Old 01-18-2014, 04:21 AM
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That is the 50"
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Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

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vizio e 600-b3 , Vizio E Series E401i A2 40 Inch 1080p 120hz Led Lit Internet Hdtv , vizio m series m602i-b3
Gear in this thread - E401i by PriceGrabber.com



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