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post #91 of 159 Old 03-11-2014, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

The problem with that is that the reference W900A was a IPS panel!
Sony added their Triluminos tech & made the first ever IPS panel with better contrast than a VA panel.

From my own experience, the viewing angles from VA panels can be hit or miss. Good ones have wide enough angles to compete with IPS panels.

No, the w900a uses a VA panel.
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post #92 of 159 Old 03-11-2014, 05:32 PM
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DRN94, while I am happy you are pleased with the f8000, some facts need to be said. For starters, I recently tested a current firmware f8000 with the LB input lag tester. The input lag was a hair over 42ms in game mode, not good. Also, not only does the w900a have much lower input lag (sub 20ms), it is also able to give you a full 1080 lines of motion resolution with impulse mode engaged while only adding a little more input lag. Yes, the picture gets much dimmer, but at night its more than watchable. On top of that, the w900a use quantum dot technology, and the colors are much deeper than the f8000. Both the w900a and f8000 are great tv's, but only the w900a is truly excellent for gaming. The input lag of 42ms on the f8000 will be fine for most gamers, and in fact the phenomenon you have experienced with the f8000 is common. Your brain will adjust to the input lag, and make decisions faster to compensate for the increased lag. Other players will still have an edge on you though, and it comes down to skill. Add the fact that the current price of the w900a is basically stealing, and you have a tv that is unbeatable.
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post #93 of 159 Old 03-11-2014, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DRN94 View Post

The Sharp Elite could reach contrast ratios expected from the best plasmas but from what I've read the Sharp Elite had greyscale and color accuracy issues. ... .

The Sharp Elite had no grayscale tracking issues. There are some color accuracy issues (likely stemming from the RGB-Y pixel structure), but nothing extreme unless you're doing lab work. I frankly cannot notice it. Blackest blacks, great shadow detail and beautiful color (if you don't nitpick and do A-B when properly calibrated), and Bright. And if you have a processor with LUT capability whatever color inaccuracy there may be goes away. For me the one nit is the occasional dim flat area pulsing that comes up once in a blue moon, but no haloing, banding or other typical LCD problem makes up for that. Discontinued anyway, but I love my 70" and will keep until OLED comes of age and at a reasonable price. The current LCD generations don't tempt me in the least smile.gif.


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post #94 of 159 Old 03-11-2014, 07:08 PM
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post #95 of 159 Old 03-11-2014, 07:46 PM
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http://www.nfm.com/DetailsPage.aspx?productid=40031411
Found this by accident today.
That price sounds about right.
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post #96 of 159 Old 03-11-2014, 09:36 PM
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DRN94 how you feel about your F8000s is how I feel about my W900a. It's the best TV I've ever owned. Watching movies and especially Gaming (w/4:4:4 color mapping) is amazing. Too bad Sony nerf'd the1080p line this year.
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post #97 of 159 Old 03-11-2014, 10:50 PM
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It uses an AUO VA panel, and should blow away the Sharp and Vizio sets.

You are saying AUO has a 70-inch commodity-market panel? Where and how are they making that?

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #98 of 159 Old 03-12-2014, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

The problem with that is that the reference W900A was a IPS panel!
Sony added their Triluminos tech & made the first ever IPS panel with better contrast than a VA panel.

From my own experience, the viewing angles from VA panels can be hit or miss. Good ones have wide enough angles to compete with IPS panels.

No, the w900a uses a VA panel.

According to the review below, the W900A uses a PSA (Polymer Sustained Alignment) panel made by Samsung. If you have info to the contrary, please share it.

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/sony-kdl-55w900a-p15221/test.html
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post #99 of 159 Old 03-12-2014, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbowm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

The problem with that is that the reference W900A was a IPS panel!
Sony added their Triluminos tech & made the first ever IPS panel with better contrast than a VA panel.

From my own experience, the viewing angles from VA panels can be hit or miss. Good ones have wide enough angles to compete with IPS panels.

No, the w900a uses a VA panel.

According to the review below, the W900A uses a PSA (Polymer Sustained Alignment) panel made by Samsung. If you have info to the contrary, please share it.

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/sony-kdl-55w900a-p15221/test.html


Thank god Sony used a Samsung Panel on the W9 and not an LG panel. biggrin.gif
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post #100 of 159 Old 03-12-2014, 08:19 PM
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If the UHD full array local dimming X950B's native contrast is a more typical 3,000:1 and the full array local dimming can inflat that contrast ratio to over 10,000:1 with no obvious blooming or gamma errors, then I will be thoroughly impressed...

However, with LG's 55" 1080p OLED for $7,000 and Samsung's 55" 1080p OLED for $9,000 (whenever it is in stock again) will give the $8000 X950B a big run for its money. I would personally invest in an OLED before a 4K FALD LED. Near perfect viewing angles, plasma like motion resolution, unrivaled native contrast ratio, brighter than LED peak whites, and all the other advantages of OLED will outweigh any merit of the X950B, I can almost guarantee anyone that.

But if you must have 4K and a larger screen, then the X950B will probably be the best option. Let's just hope it doesn't have an LG IPS panel too... If it does, well then it looks like Samsung's flat edge lit 4K flagship will be the best option. It comes in curved for an extra $2,000! Anyone wanna pay that much for a curve? No? Figures...
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post #101 of 159 Old 03-12-2014, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRN94 View Post

If the UHD full array local dimming X950B's native contrast is a more typical 3,000:1 and the full array local dimming can inflat that contrast ratio to over 10,000:1 with no obvious blooming or gamma errors, then I will be thoroughly impressed...

However, with LG's 55" 1080p OLED for $7,000 and Samsung's 55" 1080p OLED for $9,000 (whenever it is in stock again) will give the $8000 X950B a big run for its money. I would personally invest in an OLED before a 4K FALD LED. Near perfect viewing angles, plasma like motion resolution, unrivaled native contrast ratio, brighter than LED peak whites, and all the other advantages of OLED will outweigh any merit of the X950B, I can almost guarantee anyone that.

But if you must have 4K and a larger screen, then the X950B will probably be the best option. Let's just hope it doesn't have an LG IPS panel too... If it does, well then it looks like Samsung's flat edge lit 4K flagship will be the best option. It comes in curved for an extra $2,000! Anyone wanna pay that much for a curve? No? Figures...

I see it pretty much exactly the same way - if 55" and 1080 works, then the 55" LG OLED (currently available for $4600) wins hands down.

If you need 65" and 4K, then maybe the X950B , or more likely the 65: Vizio Reference (which will hopefully cost no more than half the MSRP of the Sony) if it ends up materializing this year, or alternatively the 65" Toshiba L9400U (for which pricing has also not yet been released, but should cost less than the out-of-this-world-price-for-an-LED/LCD that Sony has determined for the X950B).
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post #102 of 159 Old 03-14-2014, 05:08 PM
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It's up to you PureHazard but that's what I would do. I know they are only 2 review's but things don't look good for the W950B. Sad really because it was supposed to be the successor to the excellent W900 but review's are showing that not to be the case at all. Thank god I didn't buy one and I wasn't going to due to I hate the Wedge Design. Sony using LG's IPS panel was a wrong move.

Ended up finding a store with a couple of new 55HX950s in stock. Just grabbed one today. My search for a new TV is done now. Good luck to those looking at this year's lineup.
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post #103 of 159 Old 03-14-2014, 07:06 PM
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 Near perfect viewing angles, plasma like motion resolution, unrivaled native contrast ratio, brighter than LED peak whites, and all the other advantages of OLED will outweigh any merit of the X950B, I can almost guarantee anyone that.

 

I'm not entirely sure where you found that information.

 

http://www.avforums.com/review/lg-ea980-55ea980-curved-1080p-oled-tv-review.9969

"Despite the incredibly fast response times of OLED, just like the Samsung KE55S9 the motion handling was more LCD-like, delivering about 400 lines of resolution with TruMotion off. Presumably LG are also driving the OLED pixels in their TV using a method called ‘sample-and-hold’ which, as the name suggests, displays and holds a static frame until the next one is refreshed. The only way to reduce motion blur caused by ‘sample-and-hold’ is to shorten the amount of time the frame is held for by engaging TruMotion. However we actually found that whilst TruMotion did improve the lines of resolution, it also introduced some quite noticeable artefacts, regardless of which setting we used - so we would recommend not using TruMotion, even for sports based action."

 

http://www.avforums.com/review/samsung-s9-ke55s9c-curved-oled-tv-review.9369

"The one area that did surprise us was motion handling. Given the incredibly fast response times of OLED, we had expected motion to have a more plasma-like appearance but in actual fact it was very LCD-like, delivering about 300 lines of resolution with Motion Plus off. According to Samsung the reason for this is that the OLED pixels are driven using a method called ‘sample-and-hold’ which, as the name suggests, displays and holds a static frame until the next one is refreshed. Since our eyes are always moving when tracking moving objects, this approach causes the held frame to blur across the retina. The flicker of an impulse-driven display like a plasma or a CRT shortens the frame samples and, coupled with the natural phosphor decay, eliminates motion blur. Samsung claim that ‘sample-and-hold’ is used because otherwise the motion on an OLED screen appears unnatural to the human eye."

 

I've seen no other information supporting your claims of "plasma-like motion" anywhere else, either.  Those were just the two sources off the top of my head.  Personally I believe that, once a new technique is developed to utilize OLED tech, we will see something that does touch(/beat) plasma quality motion.  Especially considering the fact that OLED has monumentally faster response times than LCD.  Until then, we're looking at a 4 cylinder engine powering a Bugatti body.

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post #104 of 159 Old 03-14-2014, 10:30 PM
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Not to mention, OLED can not achieve anywhere near LCD peak whites. I was watching an LG OLED in the store and every time a mostly bright scene came up, the ABL kicked in and it looked no different than a plasma. In fact, the Samsung f8500 near it looked better.
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post #105 of 159 Old 03-14-2014, 10:47 PM
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Looks like the first 2014 samsung tv review is up. Of course, almost 40ms of input lag eek.gif This is their budget model, so expect the higher end models with more features to have even more lag. http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/pn64h5000-201403143657.htm I guess Samsung just doesn't care about a very large segment of buyers?
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post #106 of 159 Old 03-14-2014, 11:37 PM
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What should I expect out of the 48" W600B? It's such a cheap TV at $650 - will it have decent quality or will it probably be plagued by tons of PQ issues? Should it also be expected to have the same extremely low input lag that the rest of the W series has? It's either wait for this to come out or go ahead with a Samsung E5000 (found one with a good Samsung panel used). Primarily will be used for gaming.

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post #107 of 159 Old 03-14-2014, 11:46 PM
 
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So OLED at the moment is at worst on equal footing when it comes to motion.
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Not to mention, OLED can not achieve anywhere near LCD peak whites. I was watching an LG OLED in the store and every time a mostly bright scene came up, the ABL kicked in and it looked no different than a plasma. In fact, the Samsung f8500 near it looked better.
That's generally okay unless you're watching only TV commercials in a sunroom, and the LG's light output is most likely limited by its variant of OLED tech (WOLED). The good news is this finding pertains to a first generation set, so this is not the end of the road like it is with plasma. The Samsung OLED with its RGB architecture, which seems to be dying on the vine due to production difficulties, is almost twice as bright. The F8500 is a special case with its unparalleled (for plasma) brightness. Peak whites are pretty far down on my list when it comes to reference viewing, so I know which tech is the most appealing to me.
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post #108 of 159 Old 03-15-2014, 03:06 PM
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Oh no! the plasma geeks are now pushing OLED because Plasma is dead! They just won't admit how LCD has won and now OLED is the next Plasma savior for them, just funny how burn in and all the problem's Plasma had is in OLED! Maybe that is why they say wait till tomorrow! it will be better!
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post #109 of 159 Old 03-15-2014, 05:09 PM
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Oh no! the plasma geeks are now pushing OLED because Plasma is dead! They just won't admit how LCD has won and now OLED is the next Plasma savior for them, just funny how burn in and all the problem's Plasma had is in OLED! Maybe that is why they say wait till tomorrow! it will be better!

now-what.jpg

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post #110 of 159 Old 03-15-2014, 11:38 PM
 
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The insecurity on tap is funny (do the glowing "best PQ ever" reviews of the 1st gen OLEDs have you upset?). You've got me wrong anyway, I'm a fan of reference PQ. Maybe there will be an all-around contender in 2014 that will finally dethrone the Sharp Elite from 2011 so you can beat your chest some more. Stop making it personal, for the 100th time.
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post #111 of 159 Old 03-16-2014, 05:54 AM
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The insecurity on tap is funny (do the glowing "best PQ ever" reviews of the 1st gen OLEDs have you upset?). You've got me wrong anyway, I'm a fan of reference PQ. Maybe there will be an all-around contender in 2014 that will finally dethrone the Sharp Elite from 2011 so you can beat your chest some more. Stop making it personal, for the 100th time.
For the 100th time, stop beating your dead plasma chest and go back to the plasma forum or better yet, your new savior OLED forum. FOR THE 100th TIME,THIS IS THE LCD FORUM!
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post #112 of 159 Old 03-16-2014, 07:57 AM
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The insecurity on tap is funny (do the glowing "best PQ ever" reviews of the 1st gen OLEDs have you upset?). You've got me wrong anyway, I'm a fan of reference PQ. Maybe there will be an all-around contender in 2014 that will finally dethrone the Sharp Elite from 2011 so you can beat your chest some more. Stop making it personal, for the 100th time.
For the 100th time, stop beating your dead plasma chest and go back to the plasma forum or better yet, your new savior OLED forum. FOR THE 100th TIME,THIS IS THE LCD FORUM!

 

Please get a few things straight before you post here.

 

  1. The LCD forum is not a club house.
  2. The LCD forum is not a place only for LCD fans.
  3. The LCD forum will periodically have threads that raise positions requiring an insight into display technology as a whole, and this includes raising the issues of plasmas (and other display technologies both current and historic in nature).
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post #113 of 159 Old 03-16-2014, 10:24 AM
 
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For the 100th time, stop beating your dead plasma chest and go back to the plasma forum or better yet, your new savior OLED forum. FOR THE 100th TIME,THIS IS THE LCD FORUM!
You don't decide who gets to post here and who doesn't. Once you get that through your head, your time here will be much less stressful. Toodles.
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post #114 of 159 Old 03-16-2014, 12:32 PM
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I just hope the W950b doesn't sucks like they reviewed it Overseas.
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post #115 of 159 Old 03-16-2014, 03:00 PM
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I just hope the W950b doesn't sucks like they reviewed it Overseas.
I'm with you on this. After doing a lot of reading/research I thought this was going to be my next TV. I'm not a gamer just like watching movies and sports. Next TV will be paired with a Marantz sr6008 that I just bought. It is funny how early reviews of the 950b are luke warm but the one review of the 800b was not so bad. I may just wait and see what the so called experts think about the Samsung un55h7150 or the new Toshiba 55L7400. I have just had my heart set on a Sony because of so many people claiming color superiority.
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post #116 of 159 Old 03-16-2014, 03:35 PM
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Please get a few things straight before you post here.
  1. The LCD forum is not a club house.
  2. The LCD forum is not a place only for LCD fans.
  3. The LCD forum will periodically have threads that raise positions requiring an insight into display technology as a whole, and this includes raising the issues of plasmas (and other display technologies both current and historic in nature).

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You don't decide who gets to post here and who doesn't. Once you get that through your head, your time here will be much less stressful. Toodles.
I guess you guys gave up on plasma? that is why you go to the LCD forum?
I think I missed my chance to go onto the plasma forum to tell how I don't have to shut the shades and turn off the lights to watch my LCD or how bright the picture is when called for and my 3D was well lit. OH WAIT, WHY GO TO A FORUM AND KNOCK THE TECHNOLOGY WHEN I NEVER INTENDED TO BUY THE TV!
I never went on a forum to tell people how bad plasma is,that they are looking too buy a dead technology! I guess the positive side is not what you guys are about!
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post #117 of 159 Old 03-16-2014, 04:53 PM
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Please get a few things straight before you post here.
  1. The LCD forum is not a club house.
  2. The LCD forum is not a place only for LCD fans.
  3. The LCD forum will periodically have threads that raise positions requiring an insight into display technology as a whole, and this includes raising the issues of plasmas (and other display technologies both current and historic in nature).
 
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You don't decide who gets to post here and who doesn't. Once you get that through your head, your time here will be much less stressful. Toodles.
I guess you guys gave up on plasma? that is why you go to the LCD forum?
I think I missed my chance to go onto the plasma forum to tell how I don't have to shut the shades and turn off the lights to watch my LCD or how bright the picture is when called for and my 3D was well lit. OH WAIT, WHY GO TO A FORUM AND KNOCK THE TECHNOLOGY WHEN I NEVER INTENDED TO BUY THE TV!
I never went on a forum to tell people how bad plasma is,that they are looking too buy a dead technology! I guess the positive side is not what you guys are about!

 

Apparently you're still not willing to join this conversation constructively.

 

For the record, to call out your assuming nature, I am not a plasma fan.  I've never owned a plasma, and I own an LED-LCD Sony.  I am actually not a fan of any PWM technology (as Vinnie97 will attest) but do strongly like any emissive technology.  While plasma has a lot of things superior to LCD there were just too many things wrong with it for me to deal with.  But none of that matters.  Why?  Because I do not need to be a plasma fan to point out how absurdly you're behaving.

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post #118 of 159 Old 03-16-2014, 06:06 PM
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Apparently you're still not willing to join this conversation constructively.

For the record, to call out your assuming nature, I am not a plasma fan.  I've never owned a plasma, and I own an LED-LCD Sony.  I am actually not a fan of any PWM technology (as Vinnie97 will attest) but do strongly like any emissive technology.  While plasma has a lot of things superior to LCD there were just too many things wrong with it for me to deal with.  But none of that matters.  Why?  Because I do not need to be a plasma fan to point out how absurdly you're behaving.
It is absurd for people who have no interest in the technology, to come onto the forum and do nothing but bash the TV'S. They Still don't admit the flaws with plasma and OLED.
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post #119 of 159 Old 03-16-2014, 08:00 PM
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Any good suggestions for a 65"+ tv? I game 40% tv/movie 60% of the time. plasma is out for me cause I'm just not careful enough to not get IR or anything of the source. PQ is pretty important to me. I was hoping the new sony 2014 tvs were gonna be good but the uk reviews thus far have been pretty bad. = ( maybe the 65x850b will be good. just wasn't trying to spend 4k+ = /
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post #120 of 159 Old 03-16-2014, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ayase View Post

Any good suggestions for a 65"+ tv? I game 40% tv/movie 60% of the time. plasma is out for me cause I'm just not careful enough to not get IR or anything of the source. PQ is pretty important to me. I was hoping the new sony 2014 tvs were gonna be good but the uk reviews thus far have been pretty bad. = ( maybe the 65x850b will be good. just wasn't trying to spend 4k+ = /

Suggest you have a look at the Vizio P and the 2014 Vizio M: http://ces.vizio.com/p-series.html#skip

http://store.vizio.com/news/vizio-announces-pricing-for-best-in-class-p-series-ultra-hd-full-array-led-smart-tv:

The Toshiba L9400U also looks like it could be a winner, but there has been no information on it since CES...
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Sony Kdl65w850a 65 Inch 3d Led Hdtv , Sony , Ces 2014
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