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post #1 of 41 Old 01-22-2014, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I am in the market for a new tv. I have looked at the Samsung UN60F8000 and I really like it. But i read about the panel lottery and flashlighting and clouding...ugh, it boggles the mind. Lately I have been reading about how plasmas seem to still be viable options. So I have been researching the Panasonic TC-P60VT60.

So my question is are plasmas still a viable option and whats better in the long run the Samsung or the Panny? I will be watching movies, television as well as gaming.

Any answers will be appreciated
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post #2 of 41 Old 01-22-2014, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Lewshus View Post

I am in the market for a new tv. I have looked at the Samsung UN60F8000 and I really like it. But i read about the panel lottery and flashlighting and clouding...ugh, it boggles the mind. Lately I have been reading about how plasmas seem to still be viable options. So I have been researching the Panasonic TC-P60VT60.

So my question is are plasmas still a viable option and whats better in the long run the Samsung or the Panny? I will be watching movies, television as well as gaming.

Any answers will be appreciated

Plasma is not on par with LCD, it's superior in picture quality. The VT60 is an excellent panel if you can still find one. They are almost completely sold out everywhere. However if you are one of those gamers that play for 8hrs marathons, I would go for LCD as you won't have to worry about IR. I game on mine all the time and don't have any IR or BI. Vizio surprisingly has some new LCD sets coming out this year that seem pretty promising, the Full Array panel ones. Your choice.

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post #3 of 41 Old 01-22-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Plasma is not on par with LCD, it's superior in picture quality. The VT60 is an excellent panel if you can still find one. They are almost completely sold out everywhere. However if you are one of those gamers that play for 8hrs marathons, I would go for LCD as you won't have to worry about IR. I game on mine all the time and don't have any IR or BI. Vizio surprisingly has some new LCD sets coming out this year that seem pretty promising, the Full Array panel ones. Your choice.

For nighttime viewing you are correct. For daytime viewing in a brightly-lit room, the picture quality of LED is superior to plasma (the one possible exception being the Samsung 8500, the brightest plasma ever made). So the environment one will be viewing/playing in needs to be taken into consideration to determine which type of display will best suit their needs...

-fafrd
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post #4 of 41 Old 01-22-2014, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

For nighttime viewing you are correct. For daytime viewing in a brightly-lit room, the picture quality of LED is superior to plasma (the one possible exception being the Samsung 8500, the brightest plasma ever made). So the environment one will be viewing/playing in needs to be taken into consideration to determine which type of display will best suit their needs...

-fafrd

Yeah I agree if the room is extremely bright, although I have 5 windows in my living room and the brightness is plenty on my panel, using THX bright mode setting in daytime, no issues. Plus it doesn't wash out if you are watching on either side, you have to be right in front of LCD's to get the best view.

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post #5 of 41 Old 01-22-2014, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Yeah I agree if the room is extremely bright, although I have 5 windows in my living room and the brightness is plenty on my panel, using THX bright mode setting in daytime, no issues. Plus it doesn't wash out if you are watching on either side, you have to be right in front of LCD's to get the best view.

To each his own. I just returned a new 65" ZT60 because it was unusable for daytime viewing (with my rear-facing full-wall windows, so a worst case from a reflection standpoint). My LG 5600 LCD (with matt screen) handles daytime viewing much, much better (though the blacks are not what I would like for movie night...).

The issue about off-angle viewing of LCDs is overblown in my view - yes, I could walk all the way to the side of the ZT60s screen with no loss of contrast, but so what? In our wide living room, our LCD easily allows up to 10 viewers with the worst viewing angles approaching 45 degrees and there is not a noticeable degradation in contrast.

Good blacks and shadow detail during dark room viewing versus enough brightness and reduced reflections for daytime viewing are the major factors to balance in deciding plasma versus LCD, in my view.

-fafrd

p.s. and of course, the whole subject is quickly becoming moot anyway...
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post #6 of 41 Old 01-22-2014, 11:59 PM
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I went from a 50 inch Vizio M-Series Razor that I bought around May last year, and wasn't even looking for a TV actually, I was happy with mine.. but then I read the holiday guide right here on AVS, just out of curiosity.. this was at the top for displays.. so then I read the down-right amazing reviews of the Panasonic ZT60, and I decided to buy one before they were all gone. Let me put it this way, I gave my Vizio to my brother-in-law, and every time I go over to his house, I am reminded the difference, and how substantial it is. I am SO glad I bought the ZT60. They are not even comparable.

Granted, that's a cheaper model LCD and the top Plasma, however, I can say it's the best picture I have ever seen.. and in many cases, it's better than picture quality at the theater!

One thing I would consider like the others have mentioned, is the brightness of the room. My ZT60 is plenty bright for me, even with the blinds open, but the ZT60 does do better in brighter rooms than the VT60. Both though, I read were very comparable in dark rooms. Here's a few links for you, these were what swayed me, and since the VT60 is very similar in performance in dark rooms, I think the reviews are still applicable:

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p60zt60/4505-6482_7-35567247.html

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tc-p65zt60-hdtv-first-review/

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/panasonic-tc-p65zt60-3d-plasma-hdtv

Just an excess of phrases like "best TV we've tested to date".... ."It simply offers the best overall TV picture quality you can buy right now, period." Now that's excluding the new OLED's, because those weren't out yet.. but otherwise, those were the statements said about it.^

Anyway, I share that, because I certainly love mine.. smile.gif

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post #7 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

To each his own. I just returned a new 65" ZT60 because it was unusable for daytime viewing (with my rear-facing full-wall windows, so a worst case from a reflection standpoint). My LG 5600 LCD (with matt screen) handles daytime viewing much, much better (though the blacks are not what I would like for movie night...).

The issue about off-angle viewing of LCDs is overblown in my view - yes, I could walk all the way to the side of the ZT60s screen with no loss of contrast, but so what? In our wide living room, our LCD easily allows up to 10 viewers with the worst viewing angles approaching 45 degrees and there is not a noticeable degradation in contrast.

Good blacks and shadow detail during dark room viewing versus enough brightness and reduced reflections for daytime viewing are the major factors to balance in deciding plasma versus LCD, in my view.

-fafrd

p.s. and of course, the whole subject is quickly becoming moot anyway...

I find that hard to believe, unusable., like you said to each his own. The off angle may be overblown in your eyes but not in everybody else's, many people have side seating areas to view a tv from. I went to a friend's house and he had a Sony LCD and the off angle was brutal, it lost all the picture, also there was a lot of motion blur watching sports. I won't get into the other problems but It's a shame you exchanged it for an LG. At least you are happy and can say you have passive 3D. biggrin.gif Ultimately it's ones choice of preferred technology.

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post #8 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

I find that hard to believe, unusable., like you said to each his own. The off angle may be overblown in your eyes but not in everybody else's, many people have side seating areas to view a tv from. I went to a friend's house and he had a Sony LCD and the off angle was brutal, it lost all the picture, also there was a lot of motion blur watching sports. I won't get into the other problems but It's a shame you exchanged it for an LG. At least you are happy and can say you have passive 3D. biggrin.gif Ultimately it's ones choice of preferred technology.

Of course, to each his own.

And I did not exchange the 65ZT60 for the LG55LW5600. I purchased the LG in early 2011 when I decided to pass on the Sharp Elite due to it's high price and the chroma defect. I've been lurking/waiting for an equivalent picture quality to the Elite without any defects and for a more reasonable price.

So when I saw the reviews of the ZT60 and the fact that Panasonic was pulling out of the business, I took the plunge and bought a 65" panel, greatly anticipating having the' best picture quality ever known' in my own home :-)

Picture was fantastic, blacks were fantastic, shadow detail was fantastic, colors were fantastic.

But the family did not like the 'softer' image of plasma compared to the 'sharper' image of LCD that we have come to enjoy. They kept saying the picture looked out of focus and that we were not looking at full HD quality. For a week, we did head-to-head comparisons of dark content viewing at night and I had a tough sell job on the family that the slightly better black level and shadow detail made the softer image of the plasma was a much. much better image than what the LG LCD was putting out with the same content in the dark. So slight edge to the plasma in the dark (but not nearly as obvious/significant as I had hoped for).

I was excited about the ZT60 because it was supposed to be the best plasma ever for daytime viewing, but in our viewing environment (which is probably extreme, with the rear facing windows, as already stated), it was unwatchable due to glare - the brightness of the screen even when set for bright viewing was note enough to even show through the worst of the glare. The matt-screen LG also suffers from glare in the same situation, but it is watchable and bright enough to show through even the worst glare.

So despite the rare daytime/afternoon viewing that we enjoy, it was a no-contest that the LCD was much, much better than the plasma when that viewing in that environment. The kids occasionally play video games with their friends in the afternoon and the overall consensus was that the marginal improvement in shadow detail during movie night was not worth the loss of the flexibility to watch and to play during the day.

So I returned the ZT60 and am hoping one of the FALD sets being released this year bests the Sharp Elite and fits my price range. As a fall-back, the Samsung 8500 plasma is supposed to have near-LCD brightness, so if none of the new-generation FALDS (including Vizio and Toshiba) is able to deliver an image on a par with the 8500 at a similar price, I may give that plasma a try. 4K doesn't not really interest me much, but state-of-the-art local dimming like the Sharp Elite does. And if it delivers the flexibility of expanded dynamic range and wider color gamut, that's icing on the cake...

Finding one panel to meet different viewing requirements is a challenge by definition. If your viewing requires extreme off-angle viewing and so you want to optimize or that viewing characteristic, then I agree with you that plasma is probably best. If that is not a requirement and flexibility of viewing conditions is important, LCD in general is more flexible in that respect (the 8500 being the first and only possible exception).

One thing that is certain is that today's plasma is as good as it is going to get and that technology will not be keeping up with any further evolution in the industry. 4K, rec 2020, glasses-free 3D, or whatever, plasma has reached the end of it's line. While LCD continues to evolve and improve (more or les along the lines of Moore's Law). I am hoping that the Vizio Reference Series proves that point and surpasses the Sharp Elite as the Best LCD Ever Made (and close to plasma in terms of black level and shadow detail), at a price point that makes it affordable.

While there is uncertainty as to whether the 65" Vizio Reference Series delivers that level of performance this year (or even any performance this year :-), there is much less uncertainty that affordable Elite-besting FALD panels are coming within the next few years, and Dolby's involvement in this second wave of what has always been the best execution of LCD TVs, is a significant bonus (that, again, is unlikely to ever be available on a plasma).

-fafrd
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post #9 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Player3 View Post

I went from a 50 inch Vizio M-Series Razor that I bought around May last year, and wasn't even looking for a TV actually, I was happy with mine.. but then I read the holiday guide right here on AVS, just out of curiosity.. this was at the top for displays.. so then I read the down-right amazing reviews of the Panasonic ZT60, and I decided to buy one before they were all gone. Let me put it this way, I gave my Vizio to my brother-in-law, and every time I go over to his house, I am reminded the difference, and how substantial it is. I am SO glad I bought the ZT60. They are not even comparable.

Granted, that's a cheaper model LCD and the top Plasma, however, I can say it's the best picture I have ever seen.. and in many cases, it's better than picture quality at the theater!

One thing I would consider like the others have mentioned, is the brightness of the room. My ZT60 is plenty bright for me, even with the blinds open, but the ZT60 does do better in brighter rooms than the VT60. Both though, I read were very comparable in dark rooms. Here's a few links for you, these were what swayed me, and since the VT60 is very similar in performance in dark rooms, I think the reviews are still applicable:

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p60zt60/4505-6482_7-35567247.html

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tc-p65zt60-hdtv-first-review/

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/panasonic-tc-p65zt60-3d-plasma-hdtv

Just an excess of phrases like "best TV we've tested to date".... ."It simply offers the best overall TV picture quality you can buy right now, period." Now that's excluding the new OLED's, because those weren't out yet.. but otherwise, those were the statements said about it.^

Anyway, I share that, because I certainly love mine.. smile.gif

With all the things I've learned from this forum now, this is the TV I wish I went for. I wish I held off getting an LED set back in the end of 2012. The 65" ZT60 sounds mesmerising.


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I find that hard to believe, unusable., like you said to each his own. The off angle may be overblown in your eyes but not in everybody else's, many people have side seating areas to view a tv from. I went to a friend's house and he had a Sony LCD and the off angle was brutal, it lost all the picture, also there was a lot of motion blur watching sports. I won't get into the other problems but It's a shame you exchanged it for an LG. At least you are happy and can say you have passive 3D. biggrin.gif Ultimately it's ones choice of preferred technology.

It probably wasn't calibrated. I've noticed usually, once the TV has been properly calibrated the viewing angle changes greatly. Plus after calibration the darker scenes, all ghosting had been eliminated.
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post #10 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 03:33 PM
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With all the things I've learned from this forum now, this is the TV I wish I went for. I wish I held off getting an LED set back in the end of 2012. The 65" ZT60 sounds mesmerising.


It probably wasn't calibrated. I've noticed usually, once the TV has been properly calibrated the viewing angle changes greatly. Plus after calibration the darker scenes, all ghosting had been eliminated.

Wow comparing a 2013 Vizio to a reference flagship plasma is laughable. I'm sorry but you can do all the calibration in the world and it wouldn't make a difference. Clouding, flash lighting, light bleed , motion blur etc.. It's the nature of the technology.

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post #11 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 03:39 PM
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How am I comparing? I never said calibrating would match it.
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post #12 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by xvfx View Post

With all the things I've learned from this forum now, this is the TV I wish I went for. I wish I held off getting an LED set back in the end of 2012. The 65" ZT60 sounds mesmerising.

Don't get me wrong, the ZT60 was the most fantastic panel I have ever seen (in the right viewing environment, meaning dark to modest light). It just didn't offer enough advantages in picture quality over the range of viewing conditions we have come to expect to justify the price...
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It probably wasn't calibrated. I've noticed usually, once the TV has been properly calibrated the viewing angle changes greatly. Plus after calibration the darker scenes, all ghosting had been eliminated.

Of course, whenever we are discussing comparisons of technologies (and especially side-to-side), it is assumed that the level of calibration and/or attention to optimize picture quality is roughly equivalent...

In the case of my side-by-side comparison between the Panasonic 65ZT60 plasma and the older LG 55LW5600 LED/LCD, neither set was professionally calibrated, but I used the CNET settings for both panels, as well as made my own tweaks to other image modes to attempt to get the best image possible from both panels for daytime viewing...

In the case of my testing and with that level of effort put into calibration of the LED/LCD, I've never seen any off-angle degradation or artifacts that would justify the characterization of off-angle viewing performance as 'brutal'...

-fafrd
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post #13 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 03:59 PM
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How am I comparing? I never said calibrating would match it.

I'm sorry I misunderstood your statement, I thought you were wanting a Vizio and were comparing it to the ZT60. I didn't say calibration would match it either.

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Well, IMO it depends on your viewing habits. If mostly watching movies, a good plasma is probably the way to go. But for an eclectic range of sources such as you indicated, especially sports, you may find a good LED the best overall solution. The problem with these new plasmas, unless you want to pony up for the much brighter Samsung 8500 series, is that they are rather dim and even more dim when the ABL kicks in.

For example, we watch a lot of NBA games, and when they are showing a wide shot of the court, the wood surface is actually pretty bright with all the lighting they have in these arenas, and my Panny 60ST60's ABL kicks in aggressively, dimming the picture, which results in a rather "un-dynamic" image. Now, football games come out far better because the green of the field is not nearly so bright. And a hockey rink's white ice will end up as a dull shade of gray with most new plasmas. Also, if you watch a lot of ESPN, the white ESPN logo at the lower right of the screen will almost certainly result in some degree of image retention if not outright burn in with plasma.

Personally, I have always had plasma, but now that they have this ABL, I am going to be forced to look at LED going forward. But If money is no object, then the Samsung 8500 series plasma may be just your ticket.

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Does ABL drive you nuts? I've heard many people it really annoys them. Personally the ZT60 would fit in great with my environment. Don't see TV during the day, no sunlight in the room where it would be as it's north facing. Watch a lot of movies, some sports but it's rare, usually Formula 1. Though ABL sounds as bad as Samsung's micro dimming?
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post #16 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 05:14 PM
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I have a 65 inch Samsung LED/LCD and it replaced my very loved 50" Pioneer KURO. The KURO is better in just about every PQ category. Except for screen size. This new set I have is decent, especially for the low price I paid for it. However, it is NOT making me forget my pio. Never will.

What I've done is decided to just enjoy a big screen for a while until OLED or whatever gets cheaper. Then, this get can get moved to the basement or something.

For the record, if I could have bought a NEW Pioneer KURO in a 65" size I may have. Yes, I did consider the Panasonic line and they are very good products but were still quite a bit more expensive than I wanted to pay. And, I guess I'm figuring plasmas days are numbered so I just didn't want to go with one at this stage of the game.
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post #17 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 05:35 PM
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Well, IMO it depends on your viewing habits. If mostly watching movies, a good plasma is probably the way to go. But for an eclectic range of sources such as you indicated, especially sports, you may find a good LED the best overall solution. The problem with these new plasmas, unless you want to pony up for the much brighter Samsung 8500 series, is that they are rather dim and even more dim when the ABL kicks in.

For example, we watch a lot of NBA games, and when they are showing a wide shot of the court, the wood surface is actually pretty bright with all the lighting they have in these arenas, and my Panny 60ST60's ABL kicks in aggressively, dimming the picture, which results in a rather "un-dynamic" image. Now, football games come out far better because the green of the field is not nearly so bright. And a hockey rink's white ice will end up as a dull shade of gray with most new plasmas. Also, if you watch a lot of ESPN, the white ESPN logo at the lower right of the screen will almost certainly result in some degree of image retention if not outright burn in with plasma.

Personally, I have always had plasma, but now that they have this ABL, I am going to be forced to look at LED going forward. But If money is no object, then the Samsung 8500 series plasma may be just your ticket.


I can't speak for the ST60 but I watch Basketball as well and I don't experience any dimming whatsoever, it could be a setting you have wrong. I watch Hockey too and it has been discussed a thousand times, the ice is not pure white as LCD show it, plasmas display it the way it looks in person. You can't even see the scrapes on the ice from players skating on a LCD, I compared them, the color is so overblown brightly that you cannot see the fine details. But there are lots of people that like that fake unatural vivid colours just like SOE. It's an indivual preference. Not all are like that though, high end LCD are better at displaying details. As for logos, all panels are different, some are more prone to IR than others. I can watch whatever I want for as long as I want and have no IR. BI is extremely difficult to get on new plasmas. Funny how the OG poster hasn't replied. biggrin.gif

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post #18 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 05:58 PM
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You can't even see the scrapes on the ice from players skating on a LCD

Buzz! BS alert!
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post #19 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 06:09 PM
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Buzz! BS alert!

Obviously you didn't read my post correctly, I said high end ones are better with details. I'm talking about cheap ones.

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post #20 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 06:45 PM
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I Saw the VT and ZT 60's at BB/Magnolia last week I have to say I can see why the reviewers rate them so high great picture .
ofc the room was dark but those had to be some of the best pictures I've seen .

I have a 2012 Sammie Plasma and Toshiba LED and they are decent but not like these two Panny's

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post #21 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 07:16 PM
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I had to replace my Panasonic 55ST50 due to overheating causing panel uniformity issues and I settled on a Sony KDL-55W900A. After calibrating the TV, I can honestly say the only PQ aspect that I miss from my Panny are the viewing angles. Fortunately, that doesn't matter much for me. The blacks are slightly higher, but you don't really notice it unless you are in a pitch dark room and that really only comprises a fraction of my viewing time. Otherwise, the colors are just as good, the shadow detail is excellent, and the motion resolution isn't different enough for me to casually notice. In other aspects though, it's superior. The 3d is far far better than the Panasonic was ever able to do and I can finally stop worrying about network logo IR. This thing produces a stunning picture frankly and it cost me pretty much the same that the Panasonic did two years ago.

I would have loved for my Panasonic to have lasted longer than two years and still be using it? Absolutely. The TV had top notch picture quality and it was a dark room movie watching machine. But, it developed problems due to an engineering flaw, 2013 Panasonic stock was too hard to locate, I didn't really trust Panasonic quality after that, and Samsung didn't make a right size of F8500. However, I don't feel like I got a raw deal by having to 'settle' for this particular LED LCD. It is stunning and should hopefully last me until OLED is affordable, ubiquitous, and largely problem free.
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post #22 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

I had to replace my Panasonic 55ST50 due to overheating causing panel uniformity issues and I settled on a Sony KDL-55W900A. After calibrating the TV, I can honestly say the only PQ aspect that I miss from my Panny are the viewing angles. Fortunately, that doesn't matter much for me. The blacks are slightly higher, but you don't really notice it unless you are in a pitch dark room and that really only comprises a fraction of my viewing time. Otherwise, the colors are just as good, the shadow detail is excellent, and the motion resolution isn't different enough for me to casually notice. In other aspects though, it's superior. The 3d is far far better than the Panasonic was ever able to do and I can finally stop worrying about network logo IR. This thing produces a stunning picture frankly and it cost me pretty much the same that the Panasonic did two years ago.

I would have loved for my Panasonic to have lasted longer than two years and still be using it? Absolutely. The TV had top notch picture quality and it was a dark room movie watching machine. But, it developed problems due to an engineering flaw, 2013 Panasonic stock was too hard to locate, I didn't really trust Panasonic quality after that, and Samsung didn't make a right size of F8500. However, I don't feel like I got a raw deal by having to 'settle' for this particular LED LCD. It is stunning and should hopefully last me until OLED is affordable, ubiquitous, and largely problem free.

This is a very helpful comparison - thank you.

Your comments closely parrot those reported by CNET, which said: "The W900's black areas were slightly lighter in some scenes, and the edges were prone to light leakage. Though gamma levels were more consistent from light to dark than the cheaper W802, it was a little more hesitant to show up shadow detail. Unsurprisingly, the fantastic Panasonic ST60 plasma was better in all areas, and at half the price of the Sony, too. Sure you can pay a lot extra for a picture that's almost as good as a plasma, but why should you?" [note: price started at $3299 at the time of the review and later dropped to $1000 by late last year]

And on off-axis viewing: "Off-axis performance of the Sony [W900] was much more impressive than the W800, with retained contrast and colors. The correspondingly wider viewing angle meant there is less of a sweet spot, so two or more people could watch this TV comfortably."

And the W900 was edge lit, with apparently some of the typical limitations that come with that compared to Full Array Local Dimming: "Uniformity: Compared directly against last year's HX850, the W900A does suffer some uniformity issues -- particularly with light leakage at the sides leading to a blue-black haze on a dark scene. "

The fact that you have been reasonably happy with your edge-lit LCD coming from a pretty good performance plasma encourages me that some of the second-general FALD panels coming out later this year will offer a picture that is better versus the 65ZT60 for the occasional bright-room daytime viewing with blacks and shadow detail are not significantly inferior during nighttime movie viewing.

Guess I'll just have to wait and see what Vizio and Toshiba are able to deliver later this year...

-fafrd
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post #23 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 08:27 PM
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I'll chime in here.

 

I recently bought a Panasonic VT60 (with a March build date at that).  Didn't have any unreasonable fan noise or buzzing.  The picture was absolutely fantastic.  I broke it in with D-Nice's slides and it was perfect with his settings.  It was a bitter-sweet moment, but I had to return it due the IR issues it had.  I understand that each panel varies, but I couldn't even watch Comedy Central for more than 30 minutes (commercials included) without having to deal with that logo being retained for hours.  I have an Xbox One and it has that stupid logo in the upper right corner.  Same issue.  I couldn't stand having to worry about a static logo being up too long and then spending hours trying to get rid of it.  It ruined my viewing experience.

 

I now have a Samsung F8000.  I'll concede the picture isn't as nice as the VT60 nor are the black levels as dark, but it does look pretty darn nice with Buzz's settings.  The Samsung is more viewable during the day if that matters to some.  Got a good panel too.

 

The inky blacks and PQ of the VT60 are pretty impressive, but I just couldn't live with having to deal with a constant IR worry.

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post #24 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 08:38 PM
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I'll chime in here.

I recently bought a Panasonic VT60 (with a March build date at that).  Didn't have any unreasonable fan noise or buzzing.  The picture was absolutely fantastic.  I broke it in with D-Nice's slides and it was perfect with his settings.  It was a bitter-sweet moment, but I had to return it due the IR issues it had.  I understand that each panel varies, but I couldn't even watch Comedy Central for more than 30 minutes (commercials included) without having to deal with that logo being retained for hours.  I have an Xbox One and it has that stupid logo in the upper right corner.  Same issue.  I couldn't stand having to worry about a static logo being up too long and then spending hours trying to get rid of it.  It ruined my viewing experience.

I now have a Samsung F8000.  I'll concede the picture isn't as nice as the VT60 nor are the black levels as dark, but it does look pretty darn nice with Buzz's settings.  The Samsung is more viewable during the day if that matters to some.  Got a good panel too.

The inky blacks and PQ of the VT60 are pretty impressive, but I just couldn't live with having to deal with a constant IR worry.

I didn't want to raise that issue, and to be honest, I can't say that I experienced it as badly as you (maybe because I was careful to avoid anything but letterbox for widescreen movies in the week we had the 65ZT60). Many will say it is overblown, but the bottom line is that plasmas bring a management concern that does not exist with LED/LCD. When I had to warn the kids never to leave the set on and abandoned while playing video games it did nothing to endear them to the new panel I was attempting to get the family to embrace. LED/LCD is much more of a 'set it and forget it' technology, with little to no management overhead save the occasional tweaking of calibration settings in the search for something even better, and I agree that that is another secondary (but important) advantage.

-fafrd

P.S. happy to hear you are happy with the F8000. I'm hoping one of the new 2014 FALD panels from either Toshiba or Vizio knocks it from it's perch as 'one of the top two best LED/LCDs of 2013' (and hopefully challenges the Sharp Elite as the 'Best LED/LCD Ever Made' biggrin.gif )
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post #25 of 41 Old 01-23-2014, 09:03 PM
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I will say I wholeheartedly agree that you would have to have been insane to spend $3299 on this Sony in 2013 with the other options out there. However, I bought it for $1699 and you can even get it for $1599 now.

I really struggled with the decision to not go with a 55VT60 instead. In the end though, I was just scared of the Panasonic. My ST50 suffered damage from its own heat due to insufficient thermal management and a common complaint with the ST60 is loud fan noise. It doesn't take a lot to connect the two, so the worry there is they did a quick and sloppy fix to hopefully mitigate the problem. I just didn't feel like taking the chance again.
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post #26 of 41 Old 01-24-2014, 01:18 PM
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Obviously you didn't read my post correctly, I said high end ones are better with details. I'm talking about cheap ones.

Watched Wild vs Blackhawks last night on my $490 2012 Samsung UN37EH5000 and saw skate blade marks on the ice just fine.
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post #27 of 41 Old 01-24-2014, 01:31 PM
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Watched Wild vs Blackhawks last night on my $490 2012 Samsung UN37EH5000 and saw skate blade marks on the ice just fine.

Keep enjoying your $490 37" toy.

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post #28 of 41 Old 01-24-2014, 01:33 PM
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Keep enjoying your $490 37" toy.

My KDL-55W900A arrives Monday.
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post #29 of 41 Old 01-24-2014, 01:35 PM
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My KDL-55W900A arrives Monday.


Now we're talking and don't tell me the sony is not an upgrade in pic quality. You will see details you hadn't seen before if you have the proper settings.

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post #30 of 41 Old 01-24-2014, 01:47 PM
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Now we're talking and don't tell me the sony is not an upgrade in pic quality. You will see details you hadn't seen before if you have the proper settings.

The 37" is our bedroom toy. The new 55" Sony is replacing a 42" Panasonic Pro Plasma because it doesn't have HDMI input for XBox1 LOL. Really hoping the Sony can process motion "well enough."
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