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post #1 of 103 Old 01-23-2014, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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So I just ordered my Sony 47" W series, and I need a good recommendation for some HDMI cables. I remember reading in here or somewhere else I should never pay more than $20. I walked by a guy who worked for Comcast and he told me the freebies they give out are just really cheap ones rated for 60hz, and I should get nicer $20 one rated for 120hz if I'm using it with a Gaming PC, and I might notice a difference. I asked a few other different people and they both said the same thing. I asked a Sony Rep, he said the same thing. I asked him where he's getting his information and he said independent research, not what Best Buy tells him to say. So what HDMI cables are these guys talking about, and this this a real thing? What should I buy and from where? The TV will be ready for pickup on Sunday so I really need to get moving on this ASAP. I didn't think I'd be buying the TV this soon and wasn't prepared. frown.gif
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post #2 of 103 Old 01-23-2014, 06:26 PM
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IMO the ComCast guy was just too lazy to walk to his truck and get you a cable. I base this on this:
Quote:
...just really cheap ones rated for 60hz, and I should get nicer $20 one rated for 120hz
MonoPrice is where folks around here often shop but you can get a decent cable for less than $20 lots of places. Just don't go to the Dollar Store...
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post #3 of 103 Old 01-23-2014, 06:26 PM
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Virtually any HDMI cable will do, as long as it's high-speed.
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post #4 of 103 Old 01-23-2014, 06:28 PM
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B.S. plain and simple. All you need are Certified High Speed HDMI cables. Period. The current HDMI hardware spec is 1.4. Notice that it is a hardware spec, not a cable spec. HDMI 2.0 (hardware spec) was released in Sept. 2013 and is being incorporated into some of the 2014 models. However, any High Speed HDMI cable from a reputable mfr will work just fine. Just stay away from the grossly overpriced cables from the "M" brand and buy from Monoprice, MediaBridge, Blue Jeans, etc.
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post #5 of 103 Old 01-23-2014, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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post #6 of 103 Old 01-23-2014, 09:03 PM
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Got these for all my tv's and components in my house and they work great. http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10250&cs_id=1025502&p_id=9303&seq=1&format=2
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post #7 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 02:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I've never heard of them before. What's their shipping like? Fast or slow? Expensive? Also, do I need Ethernet in my hdmi cables? I saw that on that page you linked to me.
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post #8 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

B.S. plain and simple. All you need are Certified High Speed HDMI cables. Period. The current HDMI hardware spec is 1.4. Notice that it is a hardware spec, not a cable spec. HDMI 2.0 (hardware spec) was released in Sept. 2013 and is being incorporated into some of the 2014 models. However, any High Speed HDMI cable from a reputable mfr will work just fine. Just stay away from the grossly overpriced cables from the "M" brand and buy from Monoprice, MediaBridge, Blue Jeans, etc.

 

Yes.

 

What bothers me though is that they decided to disallow manufacturers from putting HDMI specification numbers on the cables.

 

While this makes sense to a degree, what should have happened is that the HDMI consortium mooks should have established an HDMI Cable specification NUMBER.  In other words, no "high speed", "ethernet capable", or other confusing crap.  Basically two numbers exist:

 

HDMI revision (say, 1.4), to handle the line-discipline and data level protocols.  This is for the devices.

HDMI Cable Revision (say "HC5"), to  handle the capabilities of the cable (which describes overall data rate, resistance/foot, etc., etc., all the hidden geek metrics.)

 

To see how silly they were, imagine this: Imagine that Ethernet (the handshaking) came with a revision number.  And then for implementations of cables, for twisted pairs instead of the Cat5/6/7 etc. standard they said "High Speed", and whatever whackjob thought entered their marketing heads for descriptors.

 

It's truly a mess the way HDMI wanted it.

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post #9 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judaeus Apella View Post

I've never heard of them before. What's their shipping like? Fast or slow? Expensive? Also, do I need Ethernet in my hdmi cables? I saw that on that page you linked to me.

HDMI with ethernet is a specification that never really materialized, sort of like the Deep Color specification in consumer devices. My HDMI cables have the ethernet channel but there's nothing that can take advantage of it so it's a capability that goes un-used but doesn't affect the functionality of the cable at all.
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post #10 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post



It's truly a mess the way HDMI wanted it.

HDMI is a mess period but something that we're stuck with for the foreseeable future. Lots of snake oil salesmen out there making tons of money off of their "HDMI Ultra Gold Cables" blah blah bla...
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post #11 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 08:55 AM
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This CNET article, "What HDMI cable should I buy?" sums it up quite nicely.

"Let's cut to the chase: CNET strongly recommends cheap HDMI cables widely available from online retailers instead of the expensive counterparts sold in your local electronics store."
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post #13 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 10:05 AM
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I'm using 2 6 foot hdmi cables from 2007 that i bought at BJ'S wholesale club $19.97 for both at the time. No issues at all and still in use to this day.
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post #14 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 03:20 PM
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Current High Speed HDMI cables can certainly handle most of the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs that were released in Sept. 2013. However, there aren't any commercial devices, yet, that can take full advantage of what HDMI 2.0 specifies. I would just by certified high speed hdmi cables from a reputable vendor and not worry about it until blu-ray players etc are capable of sending data at full 2.0 specs. There won't be any cables specifically listed as HDMI 2.0 cables per se. They will just be high speed that meet the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs.
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post #15 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I measured everything, considered what kind of flexibility I needed in the cords, read the reviews, and picked these out:

Monoprice 10ft 28AWG High Speed HDMI® Cable With Ethernet - Metallic Series
Monoprice 15ft 28AWG Standard Speed HDMI® Cable With Ethernet - Metallic Series


10ft is for the cable box, and I wanted some slack. The 6foot cable I already have for it is really tight, because of the way I have to weave it through the TV stand's metal structure. I measured a minimum of 11ft for the PC and that's tight, so 15 feet will give me a good amount of slack when I need to move the PC around sometimes. I don't really care about the Ethernet, they're "high speed" like you guys said to get, ever customer rating is high and they describe similar situations I'll be using them in, they're flexible which I really need them to be, and look sturdy. I'm putting them in my shopping cart, I'll have to rush them if I want to get them in time probably.... unless you guys feel the need to warn me about anything. I'm ordering them tonight.
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post #16 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 04:02 PM
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The spec numbers are nonsensical when it comes to cables, which is why they are not allowed. Period.
----


Judaeus, you linked one high speed and one standard speed. To be honest, the standard speed is almost always fine, but for a few dollars you probably ought to get them both in high speed. Maybe one of these: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025503&p_id=10508&seq=1&format=2

If not, the ones you got will be fine... Honestly... they'll be fine...
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #17 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Crap, thanks for catching that. I've barely had any sleep... I have no freakin clue how I missed that. Oo *self slap*

I need to find another one then.... and it has to be 15" and cannot be directional. This is for a PC so the PC needs to sync up with the TV, not just send a video/audio signal.
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post #18 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judaeus Apella View Post

I don't really care about the Ethernet, they're "high speed" like you guys said to get, ever customer rating is high and they describe similar situations I'll be using them in, they're flexible which I really need them to be, and look sturdy..

If you really need flexible cables, you might want to consider Redmere cables. They are really thin, really flexible, and put absolutely no strain on the HDMI input. They're active cables which means they do have some small electronics in the sink end (tv side) so they can fail overtime like any other electronic device. That being said, I've been using a couple of 10' Redmere's and one 6' Redmere for almost a year now and they've been fine.

I might add that the Redmere cables are unidirectional. They only go one way but you can't hurt anything if you install them backwards. You just won't get a signal.
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post #19 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I read on monoprice those are directional. Doesn't the TV need to send a signal back to the PC to sync it up so windows recognizes the TV? If windows doesn't see the TV and properly sync up with it, my guess is it won't work. Also, I noticed those cables say "high performance", not "high speed", what's the difference?
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post #20 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 07:52 PM
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The only reason the cables are "directional" is because the chipset that draws the power from the sink end (which makes the cable active) is at the end that connects to the tv. Because the cables are active, the wires can be thinner (hence a thinner cable) and the run can be longer and still maintain the HDMI specs for high speed. HDMI is HDMI. Two of my Redmere cables connect the blu-ray player and AppleTV to the receiver. The other Redmere connects the receiver to the tv. A/V is perfect even when I stream a movie at 1080p. If I want to connect my MacBook Air to the tv, I just use a separate HDMI cable or I stream via the AppleTV. I don't use HTPC. You shouldn't have any problems with Windows other than the fact it's Windows wink.gif
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post #21 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you sure? I don't mean to doubt you but I'll be absolutely screwed if this doesn't work. lol

I just want to be absolutely sure you're 100% positive that if I use the Redmere cables, it will work with my GTX 770 video card and Windows will receive the signal from the TV to identify it and sync up with it. The reason is, the douches who run Best Buy decided to cut their return policy in half. So now you get 15 days instead of 30 to return something. They said its because research showed most customers return within 15 days, but you and I know its just an excuse to find a way to screw over customers and make more money. Bastards. So I have two weeks to figure everything out and get it working right.

This comment is also worrying me about that product. "I assumed that this cable would be pass-through on the audio portion. Video portion worked great, but audio came out modified. It pitch-shifted everything upward and gave everyone "chipmunk" type voices. I tried it with several laptops hooked to HDMI TV's and always the same results. For video only, SUPERB. For audio, not so much..."

He's using a computer like I am. What would cause something like that?

You know, I wanted to use a receiver... so I could connect my video card HDMI and a sound card optical as the first input and my cable DVR as the second input into the receiver, then use the receiver to switch back and forth between the two inputs.... but everything I saw was either too untrustworthy or too expensive. frown.giffrown.giffrown.gif I didn't want to spend more than $300 for the entire sound solution, and that includes speakers.

The other option would have been to find a way to do HDMI+Optical to HDMI, to combine a sound card audio signal and my video card video signal into one HDMI cable. Everything I saw having to do that though, either lowered the quality of the sound or was extremely pricy for what it did. frown.gif The only other option left I'm trying to explore is trying to find a way to send the audio of a sound card through a video card via its PCI-E connection without any extra connections... since there aren't any on the video card. Nvidia seems to have stereotyped PC gamers as people who sit at a desk with a monitor and PC speakers, and doesn't really care about the rest of us. I may make a thread asking if that's possible.
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post #22 of 103 Old 01-24-2014, 09:31 PM
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If you're going to setup your tv using HTPC then you might want to go to the HTPC forum and ask questions there. As I said, for the most part, HDMI is HDMI. The problems encountered with HTPC are the video card and it's associated drivers, HDCP compatibility (or lack of), etc. I guess I don't understand what you're trying to do. For $300 or thereabouts, you can get a decent entry level HTiB system. Then depending on the video card you have in your PC, you could connect it to the receiver if you wanted to for what ever you wanted to do. For example, we have a HTS (separate receiver and speakers). If I want to, I can connect my MacBook Air directly to the system via HDMI and use the big screen as an "external" monitor for my laptop or stream video (either thru a physical connection or wirelessly via AppleTV). Some PC/TV/receiver setups are more difficult than others.

The more simple of a setup you have the better. Too many extraneous connections to "make it work" is asking for problems and very difficult to troubleshoot.
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post #23 of 103 Old 01-25-2014, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The spec numbers are nonsensical when it comes to cables, which is why they are not allowed. Period.

 

Precisely why the cables themselves need their own designator other than hokey crap like "high speed".

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

The only reason the cables are "directional" is because the chipset that draws the power from the sink end (which makes the cable active) is at the end that connects to the tv.

 

Yes, yes, yes.  BTW, most everyone gets this wrong and thinks that Redmere for some reason cannot back-channel information.

 
Quote:
Because the cables are active, the wires can be thinner (hence a thinner cable) and the run can be longer

Yep.  I'd rephrase this though in that the run can be longer for any given thickness.  Except in very few insane cases, Redmere is about being thin, and only about being thin, to avoid the thickness you'd otherwise need for longer distances.

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post #24 of 103 Old 01-25-2014, 07:53 AM
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I use these:

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025508&p_id=10764&seq=1&format=2

Very thin and puts less strain on the HDMI ports.
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post #25 of 103 Old 01-25-2014, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Oops I just figured something out! Wow I'm glad I caught this. Since my needs have changed, I've split this topic off to the receiver area of the forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1513977/need-help-picking-out-parts-for-a-receiver-sound-system-for-gaming-pc-tv-and-dvr#post_24263544

Since making this thread, I've decided to abandon owning a sound bar and go with a receiver setup with bookshelf speakers. Sounds like it'll fix all my connection issues with my PC and will out perform a sound bar by a large margin... even if I just have 2.1 or 3.1.

I just saw a video explaining you need to use 24AWG with AV Receivers because of the resistance they put on the cables! I'm new to the whole HDMI thing so I of course have never heard of that before. Glad I watched that video!
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post #26 of 103 Old 01-25-2014, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post


Yep.  I'd rephrase this though in that the run can be longer for any given thickness.  Except in very few insane cases, Redmere is about being thin, and only about being thin, to avoid the thickness you'd otherwise need for longer distances.

Good point. And I agree about the cable nomenclature. It also might be a good idea to put the specs on the back of the packaging that the particular cable, and length, are certified for. Truth in packaging, what a concept! eek.gif
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post #27 of 103 Old 01-25-2014, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judaeus Apella View Post


I just saw a video explaining you need to use 24AWG with AV Receivers because of the resistance they put on the cables! I'm new to the whole HDMI thing so I of course have never heard of that before. Glad I watched that video!

If you're talking speaker wires that's not entirely true. It depends on the ohm rating of the speakers and the length. Again, there is a lot of snake oil with speaker wires, just like there is with HDMI.

For speaker wire education, see: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
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post #28 of 103 Old 01-25-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judaeus Apella View Post


I just saw a video explaining you need to use 24AWG with AV Receivers because of the resistance they put on the cables! I'm new to the whole HDMI thing so I of course have never heard of that before. Glad I watched that video!

If you're talking speaker wires that's not entirely true. It depends on the ohm rating of the speakers and the length. Again, there is a lot of snake oil with speaker wires, just like there is with HDMI.

For speaker wire education, see: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

 

There's a lot of snake oil in EVERYTHING related to video and audio accessories.  There are even vibration isolators FOR POWER CORDS for criminey sakes.


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post #29 of 103 Old 01-25-2014, 10:21 AM
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Magnolia has a cable for $600.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioquest-coffee-4-9-hdmi-cable-brown-black/1267451.p?id=1218245458636&skuId=1267451

If you need a longer one, here it is;
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioquest-coffee-39-4-hdmi-cable-white/1267764.p?id=1218245464814&skuId=1267764

Makes Monster Cable look really cheap. biggrin.gif

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post #30 of 103 Old 01-25-2014, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

There are even vibration isolators FOR POWER CORDS for criminey sakes.

Hmmm, I noticed that my picture stopped shaking once I installed a vibration isolator. wink.gif
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