Seiki SE50UY04. They lie. It's not 4K UHD. It's 2K HD. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 02-25-2014, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I was really angry when I discovered this.  Fortunately the Sears store where I bought my Seiki 50" (model SE50UY04) supposedly 4K UHD TV let me return it for a full refund.  For the price I thought it was too good to be true and it was.  It is actually a 1080 x 1920 HD TV.  The only thing UHD (4K) about it is that you can send it a UHD (2160x3840 30Hz) signal and it will display it downressed to the native resolution of the monitor (1080x1920) and tell you that it is in 2160x3840 mode by momentarily displaying a message box on the screen and if you press the "info" button on the remote control.  

 

If you don't believe me measure it yourself the way I did, actually count pixels ( you don't need to count to 1920):  

(1) Put the TV in 4K UHD 2160x3840 mode displaying a 2160x3840 signal.  ( I used a new high-end graphics card on my computer for this).

(2) Hold a magnifying glass (lens) up to the screen so that you can see individual pixels.  I used a 10 power magnifying loupe like photographers use for inspecting Kodachrome slides on a light box.

(3) Hold a ruler up to the screen also viewed under the magnifier.

(4) Count how many pixels across the screen in one centimeter according the the ruler.  A red spot, blue spot, green spot in a row horizontally is one pixel.

(5) Multiply the width of the screen in centimeters by the number of pixels per centimeter.  I got 1920 almost exactly.

(6) Repeat the experiment in 2K HD 1080x1920 mode and notice that the number of pixels doesn't change.  It is still 1080 x 1920, the native resolution of the monitor.

 

I can't believe Seiki is trying to get away with this.  They must be betting that no one will actually look at the pixels under a magnifier and count them.  Too many people just blindly believe the tech specs.

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post #2 of 37 Old 02-26-2014, 02:15 PM
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That's pretty disappointing. I was almost tempted to buy one. Now I won't.
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post #3 of 37 Old 02-26-2014, 03:30 PM
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well then hundreds if not thousands of people have been duped who have otherwise mostly raved about the set. guess they are all wrong?
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post #4 of 37 Old 02-26-2014, 04:23 PM
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What is more likely?

(1) Seiki is lying and no one else has noticed it, despite all the people who have hooked them up to PCs to use as a monitor rather than to watch video.

(2) A one-post wonder who claims to have already returned the TV has made up a story to troll people.
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post #5 of 37 Old 02-27-2014, 11:29 AM
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Seiki has a 50" TV that comes in a box that looks identical to that of the UHD model, so perhaps that is how the OP got misled. I have seen a number of videos from AV & computer equipment reviewers, and they've all verified that the SE50UY04 does indeed display a 4K image. Having seen the Sony 84" flagship model up close and personal (I think my nose print may still be on the screen...LOL), I think the Seiki is indeed a UHD display.
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post #6 of 37 Old 02-27-2014, 11:44 AM
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post #7 of 37 Old 02-27-2014, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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What am I going to believe, you or my own eyes. 

 

I don't normally bother to post comments, but I thought this discovery was important enough to be sure everyone knows about it.  If you don't believe me, do your own tests.  I would love to know what results other people get when they repeat the experiment and actually measure and count pixels and not just judge the subjective sharpness.  If anyone finds a way to get 4K out of that thing, I would love to know about it.  A true 4K TV at that price would be a great thing.

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post #8 of 37 Old 02-27-2014, 04:26 PM
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The people on this forum seem convinced that the Seiki is a true UHD TV:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?98027-1299-Seiki-UHDTV-50-quot-SE50UY04-Bought-it-today/page94
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post #9 of 37 Old 02-27-2014, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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For thousands of years everyone in the world thought the earth was flat until one day someone (named Eratosthenes) did an experiment and took a measurement.  You can either accept popular opinion as reality or take an experimental measurement of reality.

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post #10 of 37 Old 02-27-2014, 04:58 PM
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Fascinating. I'm just throwing things up here. Your loop test seems clear and you say the screen's own info display say 2160 x3840 BUT are you sure your graphics card is sending a 30 Hz signal? Is the cable HDMI 1.4? Is the card capable of sending out HDMI 1.4? What card? I know the screen info is indicating it's getting a 4K signal, but I'm just exploring possibilities here.

EDIT: OK, I see you made a comment to the CNET review. And you are using a GTX 760, which is perfectly capable of HDMI 1.4, 4K, 30Hz output.
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post #11 of 37 Old 02-27-2014, 05:11 PM
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Oh, what is your 4K source material?

...maybe it's only 2K.

Boy, I'd sure like to see a picture of the pixel structure. It could be odd. A good camera phone with close macro might capture it, even w/o the 10x loop.
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post #12 of 37 Old 02-28-2014, 12:16 AM
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Internet correction dept. here .

The panel in the Seiki SE50UY04 TV can be found right here http://www.panelook.com/V500DK1-LS1_Innolux_50_LCM_parameter_17279.html
Easy way to find the panel # is in the service menu .

This is a CHIMEI INNOLUX 50" 3840(RGB) x 2160 (QFFD) Super MVA 3D panel
@ 400cd/m2 - 5000:1 contrast ratio 10 bit 60Hz (120/240Hz simulated) WLED panel.
It's 4K as far as I'm concerned .

Both Sony and Samsung and others have both been known to use some decent CHIMEI 2K panels from time to time .
The picture may not be as good with up scaled 2 K content as other 4K sets out there or even many 2 K sets but that might not be the panels fault .

ofc I would choose a quality 2K set unless I needed an inexpensive 4K PC monitor FWIHR the Seiki does that fairly well.
I currently own a Sammie Plasma ,Sony ,LG and Toshiba 2K LED/LCD sets they are all 2012/2013 models and work well for my uses.

.... OH ..... the pixel count does not change with the program source material
any resolution supported by the main board is always scaled up or down as required to the panels native resolution regardless of what the display info pop up says that only displays the input signal.
The native resolution in this panel is most definitely 3840 x 2160. unless the OP's set was mis boxed.or otherwise assembled with the wrong main board ,T-con board and panel unlikely as that might be.

so much for pixel counting . .

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post #13 of 37 Old 02-28-2014, 12:46 AM
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4k or not, its one brand id steer clear of.
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post #14 of 37 Old 02-28-2014, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APhotographer View Post

For thousands of years everyone in the world thought the earth was flat until one day someone (named Eratosthenes) did an experiment and took a measurement.  You can either accept popular opinion as reality or take an experimental measurement of reality.

So what's your take on the Sharp Q+ models?
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post #15 of 37 Old 02-28-2014, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I am tired of arguing with you know-it-alls.  Go ahead and waste $600 on a poor quality 2K HD TV with bad color just because it says 4K UHD on the box.  I tried to warn you.

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post #16 of 37 Old 02-28-2014, 11:27 AM
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Loved reading this thread. Great entertainment... A+++ would read again.

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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post #17 of 37 Old 02-28-2014, 01:27 PM
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I don't know what to make of this report, since I couldn't find any other such report. And it's not because people aren't buying them and, in some cases, using them as computer monitors.
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post #18 of 37 Old 02-28-2014, 03:06 PM
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Thankfully this does not apply since all of our TV's are 1920x1080 or 3840x2160.

I've seen much content that works well on a TV stood up on edge.
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post #19 of 37 Old 02-28-2014, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APhotographer View Post

I am tired of arguing with you know-it-alls.  Go ahead and waste $600 on a poor quality 2K HD TV with bad color just because it says 4K UHD on the box.  I tried to warn you.
So, did my questions piss you off? Gee.
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post #20 of 37 Old 05-17-2014, 09:24 AM
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I think you are mistaken. I have used my Seiki SE50UY04 now for almost a half a year and I couldn't be more please, especially after having only paid $549 for this at Sears with free local pickup. It isn't perfect such as uneven backlighting which isn't noticeable but it is definitely 4K. I didn't painstakingly count every pixel but I did compare the pixel size to my 24" 1080p TV/monitor right next to it and the pixel size is almost identical which would make sense as a 50" is approximately 4 times larger than a 24", hence equivalent to four 24" monitors (more or less).

 

I should mention that I am using this exclusively as a computer monitor and not as a TV. However getting it to work right was not easy. My Microsoft Surface Pro 2 tablet does support 2160p but then Microsoft's own mini-DisplayPort to HDMI adapter doesn't work for 4K, not even the one specifically made for the second generation model. I had to go out and buy an active mini-DisplayPort to HDMI 1.4 adapter before I got any reliable results. I also purchased an 18GB HDMI cable with Redmere Technology and was good to go.

 

Then once managing to get it to work in 4K the default colors and overall picture quality were TERRIBLE to say the least. I found some recommended settings on CNET and now the colors are almost as good ass the primary screen. Overall I am very happy with my Seiki so far.

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post #21 of 37 Old 05-17-2014, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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You say, "I did compare the pixel size to my 24" 1080p TV."  What do you mean? How did you compare?  Did you look under a magnifier next to a ruler?

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post #22 of 37 Old 05-17-2014, 11:54 AM
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thousands of ppl may have believed the earth was flat, but once somebody pointed out that it wasn't, others could repeat that and confirm...

it's not 'scientific proof' that one person makes a single claim. science needs to be repeatable, and proof needs to be more than words on an internet forum.

if you want to be taken seriously I suggest you at LEAST post pictures to back up your claim. but let's leave the world being flat out of this. this isn't a lack of measurements, this is everybody else's measurements being difference from yours.

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post #23 of 37 Old 05-17-2014, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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No one but me has taken a measurement, they have only stated strongly held beliefs based on strongly held opinion. Did you take a measurement?  I took a measurement.  It is not high tech.  Get a magnifier strong enough to see individual pixels.  Hold up a ruler next to them, the same way you measured things in elementary school.  I would love for someone to repeat my simple experiment to see if it is repeatable instead of just deciding I must be wrong because it makes them angry.  I only posted my original comment to try to warn other people to not get ripped off.  I don't have any interest in proving I am right, I am only trying to warn those who will listen, and by all means, don't take my word for it.  Repeat the simple measurement yourself.  I don't know that I care to be bothered with getting another set from the store and returning it again.  I am not sure they would let me take pictures of the floor model in the store.  If I had known there would be so much controversy, I probably would have taken some pictures of the pixels or not bothered to try to warn people who don't seem willing to be warned.

 

If you are happy with your set I am glad. 

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post #24 of 37 Old 05-17-2014, 03:20 PM
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WOW!!! Never thought this would be such a heated topic. OK, real specs. 

While viewing the letter "R" in the word "Reply" immediately above this comment box on my Seiki SE50UY04, said letter R is 4mm high using a Westcott R590-18 "Flexible Stainless Steel Ruler" while looking at it via my Triplet L300 18mm-10X Loupe for accuracy. I then drag the exact same window to my Insignia NS-24E40SNA14 24" TV and measure it and it is still 4mm high.

 

What the heck, look at the pictures below. All monitors are being used in their native resolutions; Seiki 3840x2160, Insignia 1920x1080 and Microsoft Surface Pro 2 1920x1080.

 

I assert that since the dpi is nearly the same between the two monitors in question as they produce roughly the same image size the Seiki therefore must really be displaying 2160p or 3840x2160 as specified by the manufacturer. 

 

 

CONFIGURATION:

Microsoft Surface Pro 2 with 4GB RAM and 128GB Storage

Seiki SE50UY04 50" UHD 2160p TV / monitor

NS-24E40SNA14 24" HD 1080p TV / monitor

Accell Micro-DisplayPort to HDMI 1.4 adapter

Monoprice RedMere 18GB HDMI cable

Lenovo USB 3.0 Port Replicator with DisplayLink

*PNY RedMere HDMI cable

 

*Even though PNY cable claims to be HDMI 1.4a it did not work at all at 2160p while the Monoprice 18GB HDMI cable worked just fine.

 

 

My desktop.

 

Text is 4mm high on the 50" Seiki.

 

Text is 4mm high on the 24" Insignia.

 

Text is clean and crisp on the Seiki at 4K, not muddled via upscaling or interpolating.

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post #25 of 37 Old 05-17-2014, 04:27 PM
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APhotographer, I also measured it just now and come up with roughly 2160p. If you look at the pic below I count approximately 35 pixels per centimeter. I then measure the display and it is approximately 110.5 by 62 centimeters or 2170 x 3867.5 pixels which is pretty damn close to 3840 x 2160 so I must surmise that this monitor is closer to 2160p than 1080p. Do the math yourself.

 

 

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post #26 of 37 Old 05-17-2014, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryW View Post

What is more likely?

(1) Seiki is lying and no one else has noticed it, despite all the people who have hooked them up to PCs to use as a monitor rather than to watch video.

(2) A one-post wonder who claims to have already returned the TV has made up a story to troll people.


It's a conspiracy, and Microsoft, Nvidia and AMD are in on it.

I've got a SE50UY04 and a Samsung UN55F9000 4K, both hooked up to an HD 7950 crossfire gaming rig. Some paranoid Seiki 4k owner at another forum heard rumors of what the OP claimed. So he performed a test using 4K (3840 × 2160) calibration images and was relieved to learn his Seiki panel was indeed 4K.

Basically, the test goes like this, In 1080P mode, left side of the image should be solid grey. 2048x1536 you should see banding on the left side, but NOT lines. And in 4K, distinct lines on the left side will clearly be visible. Results for my Seiki and Samsung 4K displays were identical. Lines that are only visible on 4k displays without zooming in where present.


image link below


http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachments/room-acoustics-system-layout-setup/12998d1390528377-isf-gives-away-4k-test-patterns-calibrators-4k_testpattern.png
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post #27 of 37 Old 05-17-2014, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APhotographer View Post

No one but me has taken a measurement, they have only stated strongly held beliefs based on strongly held opinion. Did you take a measurement?  I took a measurement.  It is not high tech.  Get a magnifier strong enough to see individual pixels.  Hold up a ruler next to them, the same way you measured things in elementary school.  I would love for someone to repeat my simple experiment to see if it is repeatable instead of just deciding I must be wrong because it makes them angry.  I only posted my original comment to try to warn other people to not get ripped off.  I don't have any interest in proving I am right, I am only trying to warn those who will listen, and by all means, don't take my word for it.  Repeat the simple measurement yourself.  I don't know that I care to be bothered with getting another set from the store and returning it again.  I am not sure they would let me take pictures of the floor model in the store.  If I had known there would be so much controversy, I probably would have taken some pictures of the pixels or not bothered to try to warn people who don't seem willing to be warned.

If you are happy with your set I am glad. 

the ppl who have taken 'measurements' did not agree with you, and you called out the way they measured.

I'm not sure how a ruler and magnifying glass is any more accurate...

I'm a very scientific minded person. maybe that's why I'm having trouble believing this, but when I make a claim, I usually back it up with a LOT of proof

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post #28 of 37 Old 05-17-2014, 10:35 PM
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It's a conspiracy and here is the proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGUsd9jePKI

While others just prefer this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmEW7ZwggFg

[]s,
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post #29 of 37 Old 05-18-2014, 03:21 AM
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I observe OP has "Photographer" in his/her name.

The 4K occurs at 4:2:2 chroma (same as a lot of 1080p media, such as BluRay and HDTV broadcasts). If you tried to use 4K via computer, and displayed some stuff that had unexpected artifacts, there will be 4:2:2 artifacts with certain brightly colored photos, that may be confused as inability to display 4K.

Please make sure to not confuse half-resolution artifacts of 4:2:2 chroma, which occurs during high chroma material (e.g. Red text on blue will look half resolution). This is a problem that turns 1920x1080p displays into 960x1080p displays on high chroma contrast, low luma contrast, material and photos. Likewise, it also turns 3840x2160 displays into effective 1920x2160 during the display of high-chroma-contrast, low-luma-contrast material (e.g. Blue lines on red). But most common color pairs will show full resolution (e.g. Black text on white is at full 4K resolution) if properly hooked up.

Also, output your resolution correctly. Some incorrectly configured custom computer resolutions go into half resolution mode. Much like a dual-link DVI cable suddenly losing one of its two links. Or the bigger mistake of using a DVI-to-HDMI adaptor that doesn't support dual link at the DVI side. (There is a reason why some DVI-to-HDMI adapters cost a lot more than some others). Barring all else, I am betting the OP probably fell for this trap, as single-link DVI adapters creates half-horizontal-resolution artifacts at 1080p@120Hz and at 4K@30Hz. Eye-dee-ten-tee error?
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post #30 of 37 Old 05-18-2014, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esoxlee View Post


It's a conspiracy, and Microsoft, Nvidia and AMD are in on it.

I've got a SE50UY04 and a Samsung UN55F9000 4K, both hooked up to an HD 7950 crossfire gaming rig. Some paranoid Seiki 4k owner at another forum heard rumors of what the OP claimed. So he performed a test using 4K (3840 × 2160) calibration images and was relieved to learn his Seiki panel was indeed 4K.

Basically, the test goes like this, In 1080P mode, left side of the image should be solid grey. 2048x1536 you should see banding on the left side, but NOT lines. And in 4K, distinct lines on the left side will clearly be visible. Results for my Seiki and Samsung 4K displays were identical. Lines that are only visible on 4k displays without zooming in where present.


image link below


http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachments/room-acoustics-system-layout-setup/12998d1390528377-isf-gives-away-4k-test-patterns-calibrators-4k_testpattern.png

Yep, I see all lines on mine.

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