OFFICIAL Samsung 4k HU8550 and HU9000 thread - Page 193 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews > Display Devices > LCD Flat Panel Displays > OFFICIAL Samsung 4k HU8550 and HU9000 thread

LCD Flat Panel Displays

gosse7dn
01:08 PM Liked: 5
post #5761 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 70
Joined: Sep 2014
UPDATE #3 . Well had my tv repaired by Samsung and now have to wait another week because they sent me the board with the 1032 update on it and still had the same issue. Don't understand why they would do that. I am becoming very frustrated with this issue. It seems that they don't want to acknowledge that there is something wrong with that particular update.
CollinViegas's Avatar CollinViegas
01:17 PM Liked: 11
post #5762 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 501
Joined: Oct 2005
I was told that there is 4K demo video built into the TV, Is this true?

If so where do I go to access it?
Citivas's Avatar Citivas
01:23 PM Liked: 180
post #5763 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 2,516
Joined: Oct 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by sikclown View Post
Interesting. I haven't had that issue. I am assuming you are hard wired to network or have tried hard wired to rule out WiFi as a culprit (although slow Wifi is highly unlikely to just cause sound cut outs).
I have it hard-wired via Cat6 ethernet directly to the main router (which is based only 5 feet away) that connects to the cable modem. I am consistently getting over 50mbps. I can stream 2160 with no need to re-buffer and no video drop-outs or pausing. Audio drops out but video doesn't. And, again, I can take the same TV in the same location connected the same ways and stream Netflix from another device and not have the audio drop outs. And the drop out are fairly consistent, regardless of time, day or what program is streaming. This is 100% definitely a big with the Samsung Netflix App. No question.
Citivas's Avatar Citivas
01:26 PM Liked: 180
post #5764 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 2,516
Joined: Oct 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcec View Post
Dealer is right. These are all native 8-bit panels. However, they are also 10-bit because they do 8bit + Hi-FRC. From what I understand, Hi-FRC is a very standard/cheaper way of implementing 10-bit on a native 8-bit panel (or 12-bit on a native 10-bit panel), and your naked eye cannot tell the difference.

Here's the panel for 85" as an example. You'll see that on top it is advertised as a 10-bit panel. But if you look at details, it says 8-bit + Hi-FRC
http://www.panelook.com/LTA850FJ01_S...iew_22585.html
Dealer wasn't right. These are 8-bit panels. I said in my original reply that they could process 10-bits which is what you are referring to with the Hi-FRC. But that doesn't make them 10-bit panels. There's a whole other topic on this for anyone interested. Just search the forum.
bcec's Avatar bcec
05:12 PM Liked: 42
post #5765 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 183
Joined: Aug 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas View Post
Dealer wasn't right. These are 8-bit panels. I said in my original reply that they could process 10-bits which is what you are referring to with the Hi-FRC. But that doesn't make them 10-bit panels. There's a whole other topic on this for anyone interested. Just search the forum.
If you re-read my post, which you have quoted, I say "They are all native 8-bit panels. But they are also 10-bit because they do 8bit + Hi-FRC [...] and your naked eye cannot tell the difference". I don't quite understand your objection to this, so let me try to see:

1) Are you saying that hu8550 panels are not 8bit+Hi-FRC?
At least in case of 85", it is (posting the link here again for reference). I'd assume that other sizes are the same, but I am not sure.
http://www.panelook.com/LTA850FJ01_S...iew_22585.html

2) Or are you saying that Hi-FRC doesn't produce more colors, it just means panel can process 10-bit signal but can only output 8-bit?
This is clearly wrong. Hi-FRC (high frame rate control) is a method for dithering that allows a panel to reproduce (2^2)^3 times more color than it can do natively otherwise. Here is a presentation from Samsung themselves, from 2004. They explain how they get 8-bit panel color (2^8)^3 = 16.7M by using a 6-bit panel with Hi-FRC.
http://prohardver.hu/dl/cnt/2007-03/...ccz/hi-frc.pdf

Yes, I guess I would have felt better if the panel itself was native 10 or 12-bit. But it doesn't bother me much what technology they used to give 10-bit color (whether Hi-FRC or native), as long as I can't tell the difference.
Bassplayer6's Avatar Bassplayer6
05:26 PM Liked: 55
post #5766 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 462
Joined: Jun 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CollinViegas View Post
I was told that there is 4K demo video built into the TV, Is this true?

If so where do I go to access it?
It is the same video they play at the store which is also available to download via http://demo-uhd3d.com/files/uhd/Demo_Samsung_2014.zip
You can have the tv play the video by putting on demo mode via menu (it will erase all your settings)
Citivas's Avatar Citivas
05:37 PM Liked: 180
post #5767 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 2,516
Joined: Oct 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcec View Post
If you re-read my post, which you have quoted, I say "They are all native 8-bit panels. But they are also 10-bit because they do 8bit + Hi-FRC [...] and your naked eye cannot tell the difference". I don't quite understand your objection to this, so let me try to see:

1) Are you saying that hu8550 panels are not 8bit+Hi-FRC?
At least in case of 85", it is (posting the link here again for reference). I'd assume that other sizes are the same, but I am not sure.
http://www.panelook.com/LTA850FJ01_S...iew_22585.html

2) Or are you saying that Hi-FRC doesn't produce more colors, it just means panel can process 10-bit signal but can only output 8-bit?
This is clearly wrong. Hi-FRC (high frame rate control) is a method for dithering that allows a panel to reproduce (2^2)^3 times more color than it can do natively otherwise. Here is a presentation from Samsung themselves, from 2004. They explain how they get 8-bit panel color (2^8)^3 = 16.7M by using a 6-bit panel with Hi-FRC.
http://prohardver.hu/dl/cnt/2007-03/...ccz/hi-frc.pdf

Yes, I guess I would have felt better if the panel itself was native 10 or 12-bit. But it doesn't bother me much what technology they used to give 10-bit color, as long as I can't tell the difference.
I did read your post clearly the first time which is why in my response I acknowledged your reference to the Hi-FRC process. I had previously stated the Samsung 8-bit panel can process 10-bits so your were just elaborating on what I wrote. But that doesn't make them 10-bits and it still makes the dealer dead wrong to say they are 10-bit panels. That constitutes false advertising. They are 8-bit panels and only 8-bit panels. It would be fair to say, as I did, that the Samsungs can process 10-bit content. It's similar in concept to Sharp's Q+ series this year that simulates 4K (at least horizontally) and can process a full 4K signal. In both cases they are better than not having the ability to process the more detailed content. But that doest make the Sharp Q+ a 4K panel or the Samsung an 10-bit panel. And some of Samsung's competition are using true native 10-bit panels. LG's 9800 series for example.
bcec's Avatar bcec
06:04 PM Liked: 42
post #5768 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 183
Joined: Aug 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas View Post
I did read your post clearly the first time which is why in my response I acknowledged your reference to the Hi-FRC process. I had previously stated the Samsung 8-bit panel can process 10-bits so your were just elaborating on what I wrote. But that doesn't make them 10-bits and it still makes the dealer dead wrong to say they are 10-bit panels. That constitutes false advertising. They are 8-bit panels and only 8-bit panels. It would be fair to say, as I did, that the Samsungs can process 10-bit content. It's similar in concept to Sharp's Q+ series this year that simulates 4K (at least horizontally) and can process a full 4K signal. In both cases they are better than not having the ability to process the more detailed content. But that doest make the Sharp Q+ a 4K panel or the Samsung an 10-bit panel. And some of Samsung's competition are using true native 10-bit panels. LG's 9800 series for example.
When I ask someone "is this a 10 or 8 bit panel", I am interested in knowing whether it can reproduce 10-bit color or 8-bit. I don't care about the implementation detail, nor should anyone. Some implement it by a more expensive way of adding 2 more bits, some might try smarter engineering route to reduce costs. This is not much different than lossless compression.

Take a look at the panel link I've provided. Dealer was not dead wrong either, as panel itself is advertised as 10-bits right on top. No implementation detail is given in the headline obviously - unless of course you read the specs further down.

All I am saying is, I don't believe the dealer was being malicious or giving wrong information necessarily. We don't even know if the word "native" was used in the conversation, and conversation was about the implementation detail of how panel reproduces colors. Dealer was correct that panel can reproduce 10-bit color (2^10)^3 = 1B and that's all a customer should care about.

When people here insist that it is an 8-bit panel, it creates an incorrect assumption that it can only reproduce 8-bit colors, which is completely incorrect. I am finishing off with what I said in the original post, word by word:

Quote:
These are all native 8-bit panels. However, they are also 10-bit because they do 8bit + Hi-FRC. From what I understand, Hi-FRC is a very standard/cheaper way of implementing 10-bit on a native 8-bit panel (or 12-bit on a native 10-bit panel), and your naked eye cannot tell the difference.

Citivas's Avatar Citivas
06:18 PM Liked: 180
post #5769 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 2,516
Joined: Oct 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcec View Post
When I ask someone "is this a 10 or 8 bit panel", I am interested in knowing whether it can reproduce 10-bit color or 8-bit. I don't care about the implementation detail, nor should anyone. Some implement it by a more expensive way of adding 2 more bits, some might try smarter engineering route to reduce costs. This is not much different than lossless compression.

Take a look at the panel link I've provided. Dealer was not dead wrong either, as panel itself is advertised as 10-bits right on top. No implementation detail is given in the headline obviously - unless of course you read the specs further down.

All I am saying is, I don't believe the dealer was being malicious or giving wrong information necessarily. We don't even know if the word "native" was used in the conversation, and conversation was about the implementation detail of how panel reproduces colors. Dealer was correct that panel can reproduce 10-bit color (2^10)^3 = 1B and that's all a customer should care about.

When people here insist that it is an 8-bit panel, it creates an incorrect assumption that it can only reproduce 8-bit colors, which is completely incorrect. I am finishing off with what I said in the original post, word by word:
Some language is ambiguous, some is not. A "panel" is a physical thing. So there is an absolute right and wrong answer to the question of whether a panel is 8-bits or 10-bits. It is a completely different question to ask, "Can this TV play 10-bit content?" That's why I have consistently said it is an 8-bit panel that can process 10-bits. That doesn't "create an incorrect assumption" at all, since it clearly makes the distinction between the panel and its ability to process 10-bit content. Clear, correct and not ambiguous. Some people may not care about the distinction between what kind of panel it is versus what capacity of content it can receive and display and that's fine for them. Others will I don't agree that "it shouldn't matter to them." To each their own. That's why I try to stick with answering the question rather than advocacy. I have made no opinion, positive or negative, about Samsung's process for displaying 10-bit content on their 8-bit panels nor implied that it can only process 8-bit content -- just the opposite. I'm sticking with the facts. Up to each individual to do with them what they will.
bcec's Avatar bcec
06:37 PM Liked: 42
post #5770 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 183
Joined: Aug 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas View Post
Some language is ambiguous, some is not. A "panel" is a physical thing. So there is an absolute right and wrong answer to the question of whether a panel is 8-bits or 10-bits. It is a completely different question to ask, "Can this TV play 10-bit content?" That's why I have consistently said it is an 8-bit panel that can process 10-bits. That doesn't "create an incorrect assumption" at all, since it clearly makes the distinction between the panel and its ability to process 10-bit content. Clear, correct and not ambiguous. Some people may not care about the distinction between what kind of panel it is versus what capacity of content it can receive and display and that's fine for them. Others will I don't agree that "it shouldn't matter to them." To each their own. That's why I try to stick with answering the question rather than advocacy. I have made no opinion, positive or negative, about Samsung's process for displaying 10-bit content on their 8-bit panels nor implied that it can only process 8-bit content -- just the opposite. I'm sticking with the facts. Up to each individual to do with them what they will.
So have I. I said: "1) they are all native 8-bit. 2) they can do 10-bit. 3) you cannot tell the difference."

This is why your post, where you quoted me and said "just search the forums", confused me because I didn't say anything different. I wasn't even talking to you or quoting you in the first place. I haven't even seen your post or know that you have responded. I was responding to the fella, who said:

Quote:
My dealer told me the 8550/9000 models are supposed be 10-bit....
And I said (repeating here for more added drama) "1) they are all native 8-bit. 2) they can do 10-bit. 3) you cannot tell the difference."

Maybe we both need more beer?
Yuma's Avatar Yuma
06:38 PM Liked: 10
post #5771 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 11
Joined: Jun 2006
For those of you who chose the 8550 after considering the Sony x850B.. Do you have any insights that might help me make the decision? I guess the 850b is an IPS panel and the 8550 is??
bcec's Avatar bcec
06:49 PM Liked: 42
post #5772 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 183
Joined: Aug 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuma View Post
For those of you who chose the 8550 after considering the Sony x850B.. Do you have any insights that might help me make the decision? I guess the 850b is an IPS panel and the 8550 is??
Sony does what they classify as "Light HDMI 2.0": UHD@60Hz@4:2:0 only. Samsung claims they do UHD@60Hz@4:4:4. Even if Samsung doesn't, it will/can be upgradable in the future through one connect.

Having said that, blu-rays right now do only 4:2:0, and AFAIK, UHD spec is not final so we don't know whether you will need 4:4:4 or not.
hpm123's Avatar hpm123
07:00 PM Liked: 11
post #5773 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 140
Joined: Sep 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by CollinViegas View Post
I was told that there is 4K demo video built into the TV, Is this true?

If so where do I go to access it?

I'm yet to do any Blu-ray or Netflix viewing on my 65" HU8550 and tried downloading some of the 4k clips that were linked in prior posts - I was left feeling so-so about most clips that were recommended. But if you have that You-Tube built-in app working - fire it up and look for "Birds of Prey - 4K" - short clip but it was the first clip of video that made me say wow and showed me what this set is capable of.
Bassplayer6's Avatar Bassplayer6
09:53 PM Liked: 55
post #5774 of 15049
10-04-2014 | Posts: 462
Joined: Jun 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpm123 View Post
I'm yet to do any Blu-ray or Netflix viewing on my 65" HU8550 and tried downloading some of the 4k clips that were linked in prior posts - I was left feeling so-so about most clips that were recommended. But if you have that You-Tube built-in app working - fire it up and look for "Birds of Prey - 4K" - short clip but it was the first clip of video that made me say wow and showed me what this set is capable of.
In terms of resolution/definition, this is one of the best i have seen.
http://demo-uhd3d.com/files/uhd/Hisense.zip
Hdgamer77
01:06 AM Liked: 0
post #5775 of 15049
10-05-2014 | Posts: 18
Joined: Sep 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
I'd use a professional review as your starting point and then tweak it from there according to your personal preference and ambient light conditions. Below is a pro review done in Europe - use these and tweak it from there.

There is no such thing as a perfect setting as we all see things differently and have different viewing conditions and PREFERENCES that may not make sense to a diehard OCD fan with set in stone tunnel vision. I find most Calibrated numbers to be dull and washed out so tweak in accord with the money I spent not some strangers preference. Below at this link they ID recommend settings in their review.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1401086199
That link is a review for the h8000...
defjamz's Avatar defjamz
01:26 AM Liked: 48
post #5776 of 15049
10-05-2014 | Posts: 136
Joined: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuma View Post
For those of you who chose the 8550 after considering the Sony x850B.. Do you have any insights that might help me make the decision? I guess the 850b is an IPS panel and the 8550 is??
I happen to own both the HU8550 and the Sony x850b. Both are great sets, but the overall nod goes to the Sammy. Better black levels with the local dimming vs. the 'frame dimming' on the Sony. Colors are close, but slight edge to Sony here (although Sony lacks a full cms controls). With a good panel, either set will provide awesome image quality. But if I had to pick one, I'd have to choose the HU8550.
vega509's Avatar vega509
06:34 AM Liked: 44
post #5777 of 15049
10-05-2014 | Posts: 908
Joined: Apr 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
My dealer told me the 8550/9000 models are supposed be 10-bit....


On a side note, I am trying to watch the Counselor on the movie pack but it says it needs a passcode to view since it is rated "R"... Anyone know what the code is? I tried "0000" and it comes up with invalid code....
with mine, when it asks for a passcode, the set lost its internet connection. turning the set off and on again sometimes corrects it, other times I've had to go into the network settings and just run the test.
vega509's Avatar vega509
06:44 AM Liked: 44
post #5778 of 15049
10-05-2014 | Posts: 908
Joined: Apr 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpm123 View Post
I'm yet to do any Blu-ray or Netflix viewing on my 65" HU8550 and tried downloading some of the 4k clips that were linked in prior posts - I was left feeling so-so about most clips that were recommended. But if you have that You-Tube built-in app working - fire it up and look for "Birds of Prey - 4K" - short clip but it was the first clip of video that made me say wow and showed me what this set is capable of.
Awakening New Zealand is a 4+ minute clip on YouTube.
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar Cleveland Plasma
08:11 AM Liked: 763
post #5779 of 15049
10-05-2014 | Posts: 12,646
Joined: Jun 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by defjamz View Post
I happen to own both the HU8550 and the Sony x850b. Both are great sets, but the overall nod goes to the Sammy. Better black levels with the local dimming vs. the 'frame dimming' on the Sony. Colors are close, but slight edge to Sony here (although Sony lacks a full cms controls). With a good panel, either set will provide awesome image quality. But if I had to pick one, I'd have to choose the HU8550.
After reading these threads for some time now, Samsung seems to have it down this year......
tanwn1's Avatar tanwn1
09:03 AM Liked: 11
post #5780 of 15049
10-05-2014 | Posts: 137
Joined: Aug 2009
I went to Samsung website and there are 2 firmware 1112 and 2160. Should I do both firmware update?
david(dallas)'s Avatar david(dallas)
12:22 PM Liked: 40
post #5781 of 15049
10-05-2014 | Posts: 706
Joined: May 2003
Well so much for staying on firmware 1141. I ended up setting up my wifi connection for the smart hub. And even though I had the auto update turned off, it still updated as soon as I turned the tv off and on again.. I guess I will see if out messed up the blacks again later tonight..
westa6969's Avatar westa6969
12:44 PM Liked: 259
post #5782 of 15049
10-05-2014 | Posts: 7,100
Joined: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by gosse7dn View Post
Not sure if I am correct or if it matters but isn't that for the 9000 and not for the 8550?
I own three Samsungs across three years and the menu varies so little. This isn't rocket science unless your bringing high cost calibration tools and measures. It's a recommended starting point and then DIY from there or you could spend $400 or so on a calibrator. ChadB is recommended.
Hdgamer77
01:35 PM Liked: 0
post #5783 of 15049
10-05-2014 | Posts: 18
Joined: Sep 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
I own three Samsungs across three years and the menu varies so little. This isn't rocket science unless your bringing high cost calibration tools and measures. It's a recommended starting point and then DIY from there or you could spend $400 or so on a calibrator. ChadB is recommended.
But the link you posted was a review for the h8000. How can that be a startling point for our sets?
yosM45
02:01 PM Liked: 0
post #5784 of 15049
10-05-2014 | Posts: 38
Joined: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassplayer6 View Post
It is the same video they play at the store which is also available to download via http://demo-uhd3d.com/files/uhd/Demo_Samsung_2014.zip
You can have the tv play the video by putting on demo mode via menu (it will erase all your settings)

This site keeps saying I don't have permission to download, and giving me a 403 forbidden error?


Any ideas?
hpm123's Avatar hpm123
02:35 PM Liked: 11
post #5785 of 15049
10-05-2014 | Posts: 140
Joined: Sep 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassplayer6 View Post
In terms of resolution/definition, this is one of the best i have seen.
http://demo-uhd3d.com/files/uhd/Hisense.zip

Site looks to be locked down? Getting a forbidden. IIDRN giving same status -
Rudy1's Avatar Rudy1
02:42 PM Liked: 143
post #5786 of 15049
10-05-2014 | Posts: 3,296
Joined: Oct 2000
That site does appear to be locked down. Try this one:


david(dallas)'s Avatar david(dallas)
12:37 AM Liked: 40
post #5787 of 15049
10-06-2014 | Posts: 706
Joined: May 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuma View Post
For those of you who chose the 8550 after considering the Sony x850B.. Do you have any insights that might help me make the decision? I guess the 850b is an IPS panel and the 8550 is??
Sony 850b aren't IPS I don't believe, the 79 900b is. The 8550 blacks are generally better then the 850 and the 79 900. That's why I went for the 8550.
gosse7dn
07:00 AM Liked: 5
post #5788 of 15049
10-06-2014 | Posts: 70
Joined: Sep 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by david(dallas) View Post
Sony 850b aren't IPS I don't believe, the 79 900b is. The 8550 blacks are generally better then the 850 and the 79 900. That's why I went for the 8550.
I know that the 49 and the 55 inch models of the sony x850b are both IPS. In my experience with the Sony the frame dimming didn't look so great especially in a dark room. I was watching gravity and there was a scene where it was a dark image with SB floating into space. As she was spinning both the space and the black bars on top and bottom would light up and there were many scenes where the blacks would just blend into everything.

On a positive note the tv looked great during the day or a well lit room. Colors were vibrant, motion clarity was excellent, and the overall picture PQ was great. I generally watch tv in a pitch dark room so the tv wasn't right for me but still a great set. Thus the reason I went to the 8550 which still having issues with but overall liking it more than the Sony.
suddenlyissoon's Avatar suddenlyissoon
09:06 AM Liked: 17
post #5789 of 15049
10-06-2014 | Posts: 44
Joined: Nov 2011
I've been debating the x850B, the P-series Vizio and the 8550 Samsung for a while now. I was about to pull the trigger on the Samsung last night but I'm pretty worried about the input lag. Is it still in the 70's or did any of the firmware updates drop it lower?
Citivas's Avatar Citivas
09:13 AM Liked: 180
post #5790 of 15049
10-06-2014 | Posts: 2,516
Joined: Oct 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by suddenlyissoon View Post
I've been debating the x850B, the P-series Vizio and the 8550 Samsung for a while now. I was about to pull the trigger on the Samsung last night but I'm pretty worried about the input lag. Is it still in the 70's or did any of the firmware updates drop it lower?
Be very careful if you still pursue the Vizio P-series. It may be a nice set when the dust settles but initial owner reported issues are pretty significant. Different screen sizes have entirely different panel types and suppliers so there are better sizes and worse sizes. And they have been messing with the firmware in not good ways. I saw a bunch of posts about how the the last change they made basically disabled local dimming to solve blooming. It seems like a beta product they are still working out the kinks on.

Samsung's input lag is still pretty bad. It appears that the processing time to up convert everything to 4K is responsible, though that doesn't fully explain why it's worse for Samsung than others -- but it's not great for any 4K set right now. The game mode helps. And casual gamers have not complained. But if you are a hardcore FPS player it could be a real issue.
Tags: samsung u8550 , Samsung Un55c8000 55 Inch 1080p 240 Hz 3d Led Hdtv

Gear in this thread
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Subscribe to this Thread

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3