"Official" 2014 Sony XBR-55X900B / XBR-65X900B / XBR-79X900B Thread - Page 134 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-01-2014, 09:46 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 12,647
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 642 Post(s)
Liked: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by everunman View Post
Quoted to get your attention
Any thoughts on the LG OLED 4K 65 incher?
The best TV ever made.......period, end of discussion.
5x10 likes this.
Cleveland Plasma is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-01-2014, 12:24 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 4
I have a few questions

1) I read a few pages back that after the tv update, netflix should be a white screen instead of white. Is that true because I still have a red screen when starting app.

2) Picture has been great on my set aside for two things: when the screen is black such as when switching input - I see two whitish clouds/blobs on the left side of TV. Only seen on that blk screen, never when watching something.

3) what I notice is that when a program shows previous clips, the picture doesn't look good. For example, ESPN, when the commentators are speaking live it looks awesome but when they show a clip of let's say yesterday's baseball game - picture doesn't look as great. Is that normal?

Same thing happens when I watched recorded programs from TiVo.

4) Last question is I've noticed most 900b owners have the backlight on the low end. I have mine set to 7, once again normal? Some have even said that backlight on 2 with the 900B is brighter than max on the A series which I find hard to belief seeing as I've had both.
bwsteg is offline  
Old 08-01-2014, 12:32 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 25,893
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2214 Post(s)
Liked: 2174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
The best TV ever made.......period, end of discussion.
You saw it?
Ken Ross is offline  
Old 08-01-2014, 12:43 PM
Newbie
 
Waynedude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattopotamus View Post
I think the Sony wireless sub is the only choice with the built in speakers. It uses both the headphone jack and USB to connect wirelessly.

While the built in speakers are good, I always find myself having to toggle the volume up and down based on the background noise and people talking. A good sound bar would serve you better in that aspect.
I thought there were settings in the sound selection to output line level out on the audio jack and set it to Subwoofer? I would guess the Sony wireless sub uses the USB jack to power the wireless transmitter and the line out jack to get the sub output to transmit. Don't think it gets any audio over the USB.

Any more thoughts?

By the way, I read this entire blog before choosing the 65x900B, Thanks to everybody who contributed! You guys are awesome!
Aldonator likes this.
Waynedude is offline  
Old 08-01-2014, 12:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mattopotamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,319
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 592 Post(s)
Liked: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwsteg View Post
I have a few questions

1) I read a few pages back that after the tv update, netflix should be a white screen instead of white. Is that true because I still have a red screen when starting app.

2) Picture has been great on my set aside for two things: when the screen is black such as when switching input - I see two whitish clouds/blobs on the left side of TV. Only seen on that blk screen, never when watching something.

3) what I notice is that when a program shows previous clips, the picture doesn't look good. For example, ESPN, when the commentators are speaking live it looks awesome but when they show a clip of let's say yesterday's baseball game - picture doesn't look as great. Is that normal?

Same thing happens when I watched recorded programs from TiVo.

4) Last question is I've noticed most 900b owners have the backlight on the low end. I have mine set to 7, once again normal? Some have even said that backlight on 2 with the 900B is brighter than max on the A series which I find hard to belief seeing as I've had both.
1) I think they mean the app icon. It is white with red writing vs red with white writing. I think loading is the red with white letter though.

2) blank inputs are always wonkey

3) I have noticed that with ESPN in general. That is not the TV

4) what scene are you on? I think the B is way brighter than the A. Like others, 2 on the B equals about 8-9 on the A.
Mattopotamus is online now  
Old 08-01-2014, 12:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Thanks for the reply.

I have it set to standard
bwsteg is offline  
Old 08-01-2014, 01:07 PM
Member
 
cstromme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 11
This is a little bit of a noob question, but can I pipe the audio through the tv and out to a receiver? In other words, can I connect my devices through hdmi to the TV and then use a hdmi port on the tv to passthrough the audio to the receiver? And can I control the audio in any way doing that? Would mean a simpler use here than connecting all the devices to the receiver and then connecting that to the tv.
cstromme is offline  
Old 08-01-2014, 02:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Bassplayer6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 299 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattopotamus View Post
1) I think they mean the app icon. It is white with red writing vs red with white writing. I think loading is the red with white letter though.

2) blank inputs are always wonkey

3) I have noticed that with ESPN in general. That is not the TV

4) what scene are you on? I think the B is way brighter than the A. Like others, 2 on the B equals about 8-9 on the A.
Also make sure you have Eco setting off, as they can affect backlight on top of your settings.
Bassplayer6 is online now  
Old 08-01-2014, 03:06 PM
Member
 
HDDAVID's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Hello All,
Forgive me if this question has already been answered before,but there seems to be some confusion.
I'm interested in the 65X900B. United States model
My question is this, Does this model support HDCP 2.2?
I believe it already supports HDMI 2.0 ,and HEVC
Thank you all
HDDAVID is offline  
Old 08-01-2014, 03:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mattopotamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,319
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 592 Post(s)
Liked: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDDAVID View Post
Hello All,
Forgive me if this question has already been answered before,but there seems to be some confusion.
I'm interested in the 65X900B. United States model
My question is this, Does this model support HDCP 2.2?
I believe it already supports HDMI 2.0 ,and HEVC
Thank you all
It does. I belive HDMI 2 is the port than supports HDCP 2.2.

Both HDMI 1 and 2 are 2.0 though.
Mattopotamus is online now  
Old 08-01-2014, 05:17 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Also for some reason I can't access the movies app. When I select it, the screen goes black. Music app does work. Any ideas?
bwsteg is offline  
Old 08-01-2014, 05:27 PM
Senior Member
 
timc1475's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: IL.
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
The best TV ever made.......period, end of discussion.
Exciting times for sure Chris! They prolly will release the 65 1st followed up by his big bad brother the 77EC9800 IMO. Some great sales coming to CAV with these sets, as many are waiting for this. Soon we all will be able to chirp a new song sitting in front of a new OLED 4k techno marvel. Personally I found the "curve" aggravating to view initially. As I seen the Samsung 65HU9000 vs the 75HU8550 when I was out and about & much prefer flat. But... when a UHD set comes along this good with so many bonuses how can one buck against the goads? I'll learn to luv that darn curve if need be, unless their marketeers realize flat is marketable vs curved for this display tech.

Mr. Song says stay tuned: LG Display sees the OLED TV market emerging in late 2015 or early 2016
During a presentation in Korea, LGD's executive director of strategic marketing, Youngkwon Song, said that LGD is currently concentrating in lowering OLED TV production costs.

Sadly after reading more cons than pros on the 79X900B, I had to retire the idea of ownership.

Linky: http://www.oled-info.com/oled-tv-stories


What we will be is not what we are, what we are is not what we were...therefore hoping in all things becomes possible.
timc1475 is offline  
Old 08-01-2014, 05:44 PM
Advanced Member
 
Rf13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 632
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 234 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by timc1475 View Post
Exciting times for sure Chris! They prolly will release the 65 1st followed up by his big bad brother the 77EC9800 IMO. Some great sales coming to CAV with these sets, as many are waiting for this. Soon we all will be able to chirp a new song sitting in front of a new OLED 4k techno marvel. Personally I found the "curve" aggravating to view initially. As I seen the Samsung 65HU9000 vs the 75HU8550 when I was out and about & much prefer flat. But... when a UHD set comes along this good with so many bonuses how can one buck against the goads? I'll learn to luv that darn curve if need be, unless their marketeers realize flat is marketable vs curved for this display tech.

Mr. Song says stay tuned: LG Display sees the OLED TV market emerging in late 2015 or early 2016
During a presentation in Korea, LGD's executive director of strategic marketing, Youngkwon Song, said that LGD is currently concentrating in lowering OLED TV production costs.

Sadly after reading more cons than pros on the 79X900B, I had to retire the idea of ownership.

Linky: http://www.oled-info.com/oled-tv-stories

i actually find the curve on the lg a lot less noticeable. the curve on the 65hu9000 seems more noticeable than on the 78" to me.
Janibrewski likes this.
Rf13 is offline  
Old 08-01-2014, 06:50 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Question, my playstation now app never loads games, is the beta done? My connection test passes each time. I've even let it load and no games load or show up on screen, I see no game selections/choices.
Cuadros86 is offline  
Old 08-01-2014, 09:48 PM
Member
 
HDDAVID's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattopotamus View Post
It does. I belive HDMI 2 is the port than supports HDCP 2.2.

Both HDMI 1 and 2 are 2.0 though.
Thank you Mattopotamus
HDDAVID is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 02:30 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Question, I have some blotchy random dark spot when there's no input and really really dark scenes. Is this normal, I'm aware there will be uniformity issues but this really the only issue with it that I can see? Am I just too OCD or should I exchange it?
Cuadros86 is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 09:51 AM
Senior Member
 
Sammie2980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwsteg View Post
I have a few questions

1) I read a few pages back that after the tv update, netflix should be a white screen instead of white. Is that true because I still have a red screen when starting app.

2) Picture has been great on my set aside for two things: when the screen is black such as when switching input - I see two whitish clouds/blobs on the left side of TV. Only seen on that blk screen, never when watching something.

3) what I notice is that when a program shows previous clips, the picture doesn't look good. For example, ESPN, when the commentators are speaking live it looks awesome but when they show a clip of let's say yesterday's baseball game - picture doesn't look as great. Is that normal?

Same thing happens when I watched recorded programs from TiVo.

4) Last question is I've noticed most 900b owners have the backlight on the low end. I have mine set to 7, once again normal? Some have even said that backlight on 2 with the 900B is brighter than max on the A series which I find hard to belief seeing as I've had both.
Regarding your number 4 I figured I would chime in on what I have found. So I have been testing and doing multiple pass calibrations with different settings and adv settings and have tested the effects these settings have on brightness.

There are actually a few things that have an effect on this, of course there are more but these have a huge impact.
Scene
MotionFlow
Picture setting

These all play off each other.

What I have noticed is many that have their Backlight on the lower end are probably using True Cinema. You can have the backlight almost all the way down and it will still be very bright, where as if you use Impulse you need to turn it almost all the way up if not set to Max. This then plays into the picture settings. Which then effects certain aspects of picture quality and some of what you are seeing regarding your number 3 and number 2. I have experienced some of both and was able to calibrate it out.

I can give more detail in a bit on this as well as your 1-3 though I can't right now cause me and the wife need to run errands, but what motionflow setting are you using? What scene and what picture mode?

LivingRoom: XBR-65X900B / Oppo BDP103D / Yamaha RX-A2040 / REL T7 / HDP2500 / Def Tech Mythos Ones x 4, Eight, 2x Gem XL / PS4 / Xbox One / Wii U
Bedroom: 65ZT60 / Oppo BDP93 / Apple TV / PS3
Office: KRP-500M / Xbox 360

Last edited by Sammie2980; 08-02-2014 at 10:40 AM.
Sammie2980 is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 10:47 AM
Senior Member
 
Janibrewski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rf13 View Post
the curve on the 65hu9000 seems more noticeable than on the 78" to me.
I agree. The curve on the 9000 and the speakers on the X900B are far more tolerable to me on the 78"/79" sizes.
Janibrewski is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 10:54 AM
Advanced Member
 
Rf13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 632
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 234 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuadros86 View Post
Question, my playstation now app never loads games, is the beta done? My connection test passes each time. I've even let it load and no games load or show up on screen, I see no game selections/choices.
i just received a email from them about it, it should still be going to an open beta now as it should have been when the update hit the TV sets. also theirs supposed to be price drops on rentals hopefully they listen and price the movie rentals a little better. it seems they've listened to all the feedback I've sent so far so who knows. if you ask they seem to work quickly to get things done.
Rf13 is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 11:22 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie2980 View Post
Regarding your number 4 I figured I would chime in on what I have found. So I have been testing and doing multiple pass calibrations with different settings and adv settings and have tested the effects these settings have on brightness.

There are actually a few things that have an effect on this, of course there are more but these have a huge impact.
Scene
MotionFlow
Picture setting

These all play off each other.

What I have noticed is many that have their Backlight on the lower end are probably using True Cinema. You can have the backlight almost all the way down and it will still be very bright, where as if you use Impulse you need to turn it almost all the way up if not set to Max. This then plays into the picture settings. Which then effects certain aspects of picture quality and some of what you are seeing regarding your number 3 and number 2. I have experienced some of both and was able to calibrate it out.

I can give more detail in a bit on this as well as your 1-3 though I can't right now cause me and the wife need to run errands, but what motionflow setting are you using? What scene and what picture mode?

I have it set to standard. Backlight on 7, motion flow on standard as well. Picture is at 97, color at 60 and brightness at 50.
bwsteg is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 11:23 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 4
I've been trying to find someone's setting on standard who has some idea on how to calibrate but no dice thus far.
bwsteg is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 11:29 AM
Member
 
rsteagal100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Is the power cord on the 79" hard wired?
rsteagal100 is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 12:02 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Also can someone confirm that when they select the videos unlimited app, the screen goes black? Sony says that's normal since you need a 4k media player to access that app.
bwsteg is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 12:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ted99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsteagal100 View Post
Is the power cord on the 79" hard wired?
Yes
Ted99 is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 12:32 PM
Member
 
rsteagal100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
Yes
Bummer. Thanks.
rsteagal100 is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 02:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mattopotamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,319
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 592 Post(s)
Liked: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janibrewski View Post
I agree. The curve on the 9000 and the speakers on the X900B are far more tolerable to me on the 78"/79" sizes.
That is b.c on the smaller sizes (especially the 55") the added width is almost the screen size.
Janibrewski likes this.
Mattopotamus is online now  
Old 08-02-2014, 03:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
sgbroimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: CT Shore
Posts: 896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstromme View Post
This is a little bit of a noob question, but can I pipe the audio through the tv and out to a receiver? In other words, can I connect my devices through hdmi to the TV and then use a hdmi port on the tv to passthrough the audio to the receiver? And can I control the audio in any way doing that? Would mean a simpler use here than connecting all the devices to the receiver and then connecting that to the tv.

The short answer is that you probably can as the Sony's (mine anyway) have an ARC or audio return channel. You would not output the audio via HDMI, however, but rather via toslink optical (digital) or RCA's (analog, less desirable). The audio level can be first set in the TV if you have it set to speakers off and variable audio out (to get a level that keeps it in the proper range for the receiver), but also at the receiver of course, level, bass, treble etc. The question is why do you want to do that? That is really what a good receiver is for.
sgbroimp is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 09:18 PM
Senior Member
 
Sammie2980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwsteg View Post
I have it set to standard. Backlight on 7, motion flow on standard as well. Picture is at 97, color at 60 and brightness at 50.
Thats about right. I would say anything between 5 and 7 on Off, Smooth, Standard are good I would probably have it on the lower end just because they are not much darker then True Cinema. In terms of brightness of the picture it goes pretty much in that order. Off then brighter is Smooth/Standard which are about the same then True Cinema being the brightness. Then Clear > Clear Plus > Impulse. Impulse being the darkest of all settings. So using any of these you will need to adjust backlight accordingly.

So which one you choose then determines ideally what you have the picture set at. With the brighter ones you can crank it up to max if you want. I personally like hanging out around the 97 range for the darker motionflow settings.

As for your color and brightness only you would know if that is right since I would think you used some sort of calibration disk to set them at least. The color generally though is pretty close to being correct at 50. With the calibrations I have done I have only had to dial it down one to 2 clicks.

Keep in mind all of these settings are based off using Cinema scene. With Cinema 1 and Cinema 2. Which FYI for anyone that is interested. Cinema 1 and Cinema 2 can have semi separate settings. they share the same white balance settings which is soooo dumb. Because if you wanted to use one for day and night and would ideally use different WB for each...too bad. only works if it is on different input.

Anyways...

As for why you are seeing what you are seeing in number 2. As for #2 I have noticed it mainly happens when you have the backlight and picture to high. The higher you have it the more you see this. Also you will see it more if you are even a little off axis.

For number 3 I would say that is more of a compression issue. You can try using the MPEG noise reduction that may help some. I was getting a lot of issues with blacks flickering and just poor pq until I calibrated it out, which is why I have cinema 1 and 2 set up. One for TV (ATT Uverse) and one for BluRay etc.

LivingRoom: XBR-65X900B / Oppo BDP103D / Yamaha RX-A2040 / REL T7 / HDP2500 / Def Tech Mythos Ones x 4, Eight, 2x Gem XL / PS4 / Xbox One / Wii U
Bedroom: 65ZT60 / Oppo BDP93 / Apple TV / PS3
Office: KRP-500M / Xbox 360
Sammie2980 is offline  
Old 08-02-2014, 09:20 PM
Member
 
jan dijkgraaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Rotterdam-Holland.
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozziegn View Post
Or people like myself that are knocking on the 50+ year old range and do not care to have my walls or windows rattled anymore. I have the "A" version of this TV and its awesome. I still have my 5.1 surround sound system hooked up but I rarely use it anymore. This is where the TV's built-in speakers come in very handy. They aren't nowhere near surround sound quality but they are far better than the junk speakers that come in most flat panel displays.
If you're used to use a 5.1 system the sony speakers are just a joke..with no depht..litle impact..and poor amp for anything above 40/50 volume.
But it has nothing to do with rocking the walls or anyting like that..it's ambiance...space..perception of sound.
And yes the Sony are indeed better then most flat panel speakers..but what is the gain if you already own a good surround system?
Non..if you ask me..which nobody does...so I tell you .
Nothing beats a good audio system...nothing...and I'm 60+...take it from me.
jan dijkgraaff is offline  
Old 08-03-2014, 06:30 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 4
65x900B just dropped to $4000.
bwsteg is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off