"Official" 2014 Sony XBR-55X900B / XBR-65X900B / XBR-79X900B Thread - Page 139 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4141 of 6558 Old 08-11-2014, 08:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by quigonsir View Post
So a 10 bit panel can display 12 bit color?
Yes at the panel by dithering adjacent pixels at a very higher frame rate [ +FRC overdrive] it is additive color wise in nature likewise a 6 bit panel with [+hight frc] in 8 bit overdrive can display 8 bit color fine .

With [+frc ] (overdrive 8 bit mode if you will ) a 6 bit panel can display 8 bit color . At true native 10 bit panel in 10 bit display mode and likewise for a true 8 bit panel in 8 bit display mode smoother grey scale/color gradation will sometimes be apparent on *some test patterns but not ordinarily noticeable in pgm. viewing ..

I have a 2013 Sony LED w/overdrive panel it works fine you will never notice it. I only found out by getting the panel number from serv. menu and looking the panel specs up. Panel also shows smooth grey scale and color gradients on test patterns. IMO it's not an issue on the newest panels anymore.

OTOH HDMI chip bandwidth is a completely different thing and on it's own can certainly limit color bit depth vs frame rate .

AFAIK most with some exceptions 4K TV's right now are 8 bit panels using [+high frc] true10 bit 4K panels are just now entering the supply chain in volume and will probably be reserved for premium models any 12 bit panels will likely be 10 bit +high frc overdrive panels .

Some Sony sets use LG and Samsung SPVA-2 LCD cells with Foxconn fabricated and assembled back lights as do the triluminous FALD Sony panels and maybe same with an occasional AUO cell. I believe the AUP panels mostly in W800/850B come as complete assys .

All the Sony W600B use Samsung cells and Foxconn back lights .The 9x/9.5x sets that can usually be either LGD,AUO or Samsung LCD Cells with Foxconn back lights /edge lights . 84" Sony uses a CMO panel , Sony 70" 8x AFAIK uses Samsung SPVA-2 cell and Foxconn back light/edge light +high frc panel . Sony does not make TV panels .
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post #4142 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 04:26 AM
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Anyone here got the 55" with the feet mounted in the middle? I need to know how far apart they are. Thanks.
are you taking the plunge and getting the 900B? or did Sony honor their mistake they offered you?
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post #4143 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Mattopotamus View Post
are you taking the plunge and getting the 900B? or did Sony honor their mistake they offered you?
I didn't get offered the swap to begin with, I just assumed that I would. But then Sony said that this was an error and that the HDCP 2.2 board will be coming in September, so the repair centre stopped offering the swap to people and started pretending that they'd never even heard of such a thing (this is when I called them). THEN about a week ago they were telling people that the part wouldn't be available until November, so they started offering the swap again. And literally a day or two after I accepted the swap offer, they've been telling people that the part WILL be coming in September after all.

I'm hoping that they will still honour the swap which has been offered.
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post #4144 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
I didn't get offered the swap to begin with, I just assumed that I would. But then Sony said that this was an error and that the HDCP 2.2 board will be coming in September, so the repair centre stopped offering the swap to people and started pretending that they'd never even heard of such a thing (this is when I called them). THEN about a week ago they were telling people that the part wouldn't be available until November, so they started offering the swap again. And literally a day or two after I accepted the swap offer, they've been telling people that the part WILL be coming in September after all.

I'm hoping that they will still honour the swap which has been offered.
Nice to ride the YoYo Express
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post #4145 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by konigsberg7 View Post
Oh wow, crap I just re-read the 900B review by cnet and it says there is some illumination on the letterboxes. Oh man, I should of gotten the HU9000.
Hop in the HU9000 thread, issues there as well, issues on all of there darn TV's ...... Enjoy already
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post #4146 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 09:19 AM
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'twas ever thus
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post #4147 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
I didn't get offered the swap to begin with, I just assumed that I would. But then Sony said that this was an error and that the HDCP 2.2 board will be coming in September, so the repair centre stopped offering the swap to people and started pretending that they'd never even heard of such a thing (this is when I called them). THEN about a week ago they were telling people that the part wouldn't be available until November, so they started offering the swap again. And literally a day or two after I accepted the swap offer, they've been telling people that the part WILL be coming in September after all.

I'm hoping that they will still honour the swap which has been offered.
I hope they honor it. The only problem I see is that it can take up to 3 weeks for a replacement to ship, so they could still shaft you!
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post #4148 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 12:44 PM
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I just got my TV. Is there any advantage of me using this port replicator (for 1080p content) and also I cant seem to find out what these 4 bulky screws do. 2 Long 2 shorter and they are like wide and it seems like you can screws screws into the back of it.

Man this TV is good. Theres just one god damn band in the middle. It had to be in the middle.

It seemed scary at first though because if no input is connected none of the dimming is on and I thought my TV was messed up because i had clouding from 2 sides. But yeah its black and nice, I think I just need a replacement and It should be good. I put that gradient setting on high which fixes the banding but I still see it in the middle. You can only really notice it when panning blue/green
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post #4149 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 01:11 PM
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[QUOTE=konigsberg7;26508961]I just got my TV. Is there any advantage of me using this port replicator (for 1080p content) and also I cant seem to find out what these 4 bulky screws do. 2 Long 2 shorter and they are like wide and it seems like you can screws screws into the back of it.


My XBR79-X900B has two pairs of different height stand offs for screwing into the 400mm wall mount bracket holes. The tall ones go in the top and the short ones in the bottom to correct for the tapered TV case which accomodates the "bass" speakers on the bottom sides.
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post #4150 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 01:11 PM
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Just got my replacement/exchange unit today. Sony said the TV would be a new unit which from what I can tell is. However it came in a different box, much bigger with more padding. On the box it says factory new. I called sony and they say the tv is new but box is different because it comes from different warehouse and for more protection.

Also they said all refurbished units have a label on the back, my new unit does not. Also the new unit has a date of July 2014 and had all plastics, stickers, accessories were sealed, etc.

Anyone experienced the same?
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post #4151 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bwsteg View Post
Just got my replacement/exchange unit today. Sony said the TV would be a new unit which from what I can tell is. However it came in a different box, much bigger with more padding. On the box it says factory new. I called sony and they say the tv is new but box is different because it comes from different warehouse and for more protection.

Also they said all refurbished units have a label on the back, my new unit does not. Also the new unit has a date of July 2014 and had all plastics, stickers, accessories were sealed, etc.

Anyone experienced the same?
Yes. I still think they are refurbs haha. That could be better than new since it probably had the problem fixed.
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post #4152 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 01:34 PM
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Still I cant find out if this port connector that comes with the set would benefit me in 1080p? Whats MHL do for 1080p? Can I just stick my roku in the MHL spot and be fine with it?
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post #4153 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 01:37 PM
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Still I cant find out if this port connector that comes with the set would benefit me in 1080p? Whats MHL do for 1080p? Can I just stick my roku in the MHL spot and be fine with it?
MHL works great for the roku stick/Chromecast or hooking a tablet to the TV. It will power the device.

It works like a normal port too.
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post #4154 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 01:54 PM
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Whats this resolution setting that comes with it?
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post #4155 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 02:01 PM
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So for those that are interested I wrote a review and posted it in the review section. It should have pictures popping up in their soon. for some reason it is not linking images correctly. Though the link is there for the pictures if you want to click on them to see what they are.

I'll also be updating it later this week with new calibration report, settings, and more info on different 3D glasses etc.

Please forgive the photos in advance they aren't that good. I couldn't find my camera.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/dbtrev...4849&ri=review

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post #4156 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 02:15 PM
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Whats this resolution setting that comes with it?
I think this is what you mean?

MHL supports 1080P and 7.1 sound.
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post #4157 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 02:26 PM
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Yes. I still think they are refurbs haha. That could be better than new since it probably had the problem fixed.
Perhaps and I thought the same. But how can a unit built on July 2014 be refurbished that quick?

I called sony again and they swear that the unit is brand new.

Anyone else with experiences? Should I demand a retail box brand new unit?
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post #4158 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 03:05 PM
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Perhaps and I thought the same. But how can a unit built on July 2014 be refurbished that quick?

I called sony again and they swear that the unit is brand new.

Anyone else with experiences? Should I demand a retail box brand new unit?
if the picture quality is great why does it even matter if it is a refurb?

also, I do not know of anybody who has received an exchange from Sony in an actual retail box.

I have done around 8-10 exchanges with Sony. They all have the same box/packaging and they swear they are new.

They all give you a new warranty.
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post #4159 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 04:33 PM
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I have done around 8-10 exchanges with Sony.
They must have a poster of your face, hanging on their wall.
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post #4160 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 05:12 PM
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They must have a poster of your face, hanging on their wall.
It'll also have lots of little holes, for all the darts that have been thrown at it.

Serious question: what's the 3D like on the B? Most of the reviews of the 65 say that it's poor, although the hdtvtest review of the 55 said it was alright, so I'd love to get some real feedback from real owners of both sizes.
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post #4161 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 05:41 PM
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Firmware update

Pkg2.204AAA
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post #4162 of 6558 Old 08-12-2014, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
It'll also have lots of little holes, for all the darts that have been thrown at it.

Serious question: what's the 3D like on the B? Most of the reviews of the 65 say that it's poor, although the hdtvtest review of the 55 said it was alright, so I'd love to get some real feedback from real owners of both sizes.
It is very good, I just watched "Lincoln Vampire Killer, and it was Great.... , the glasses are the best I have ever worn ,,, light
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Any info on the pkg2.204aaa firmware update?
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Any info on the pkg2.204aaa firmware update?
I did not notice anything in particular.
Description on tv is the same "non-descriptive" as all the others.

Was hoping for 4k play via dlna...but not this time.
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post #4165 of 6558 Old 08-13-2014, 08:07 AM
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I did not notice anything in particular.
Description on tv is the same "non-descriptive" as all the others.

Was hoping for 4k play via dlna...but not this time.
They added the WWE Network in the APPS section...
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post #4166 of 6558 Old 08-13-2014, 09:19 AM
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They added the WWE Network in the APPS section...
Found this on the UK page:


Benefits and improvements:
  • Improves the Skype login on your TV
  • For 4K Televisions only: Improves the Twin Tuner function
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post #4167 of 6558 Old 08-13-2014, 10:40 AM
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HDMI 2.0a or 2.0b?

See the title.

Perhaps I missed this post already, but which standard is the x900b using? Is this even important? From my research the HDMI 2.0a can support higher color sub-sampling at UHD resolutions when compared to HDMI 2.0b. For example, 2.0a can support 12 bit color at 3840/60p, but 2.0b can only support 8 bit color at 3840/60p.

Here is a link to a helpful graph (must use Google translate):
http://www.hdfever.fr/2013/11/14/tab...-vs-hdmi-2-0b/
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post #4168 of 6558 Old 08-13-2014, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Yes at the panel by dithering adjacent pixels at a very higher frame rate [ +FRC overdrive] it is additive color wise in nature likewise a 6 bit panel with [+hight frc] in 8 bit overdrive can display 8 bit color fine .

With [+frc ] (overdrive 8 bit mode if you will ) a 6 bit panel can display 8 bit color . At true native 10 bit panel in 10 bit display mode and likewise for a true 8 bit panel in 8 bit display mode smoother grey scale/color gradation will sometimes be apparent on *some test patterns but not ordinarily noticeable in pgm. viewing ..

I have a 2013 Sony LED w/overdrive panel it works fine you will never notice it. I only found out by getting the panel number from serv. menu and looking the panel specs up. Panel also shows smooth grey scale and color gradients on test patterns. IMO it's not an issue on the newest panels anymore.

OTOH HDMI chip bandwidth is a completely different thing and on it's own can certainly limit color bit depth vs frame rate .

AFAIK most with some exceptions 4K TV's right now are 8 bit panels using [+high frc] true10 bit 4K panels are just now entering the supply chain in volume and will probably be reserved for premium models any 12 bit panels will likely be 10 bit +high frc overdrive panels .

Some Sony sets use LG and Samsung SPVA-2 LCD cells with Foxconn fabricated and assembled back lights as do the triluminous FALD Sony panels and maybe same with an occasional AUO cell. I believe the AUP panels mostly in W800/850B come as complete assys .

All the Sony W600B use Samsung cells and Foxconn back lights .The 9x/9.5x sets that can usually be either LGD,AUO or Samsung LCD Cells with Foxconn back lights /edge lights . 84" Sony uses a CMO panel , Sony 70" 8x AFAIK uses Samsung SPVA-2 cell and Foxconn back light/edge light +high frc panel . Sony does not make TV panels .
Okay, so I'm a newbie and I've been reading all this and I'm confused. If the 2020 standards are adopted with 10 bit color as part of the standard, are we SOL? If I am reading the above correctly, the answer is no, but our TVs won't have the full picture of UHD. Will it be distorted because of the 10 bit stream coming into a 8 bit hardware set up?

I tried calling Sony and I got three different answers on the question of 8 bit vs 10 bit. One guy said it was 8 bit, 10 bit and 12 bit (amazing!). The next said it was 8 bit. And then the third said absolutely 10 bit. The first guy sent me an info sheet on HDMI 1.3 to prove his point. The third sent me an info sheet that I haven't gotten yet. I'm sure it proves everything.

My question is to those who have more of a sense of things, why won't Sony say if it's 8 bit or 10 bit? They made a point in their marketing of the XBR8 of saying it was 10 bit and had billions of colors. If this TV was 10 bit, wouldn't they be touting billions of colors again?

Thanks for the replies. This is a great forum, a lot over my head, but still a great forum.
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post #4169 of 6558 Old 08-13-2014, 11:14 PM
 
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Okay, so I'm a newbie and I've been reading all this and I'm confused. If the 2020 standards are adopted with 10 bit color as part of the standard, are we SOL? If I am reading the above correctly, the answer is no, but our TVs won't have the full picture of UHD. Will it be distorted because of the 10 bit stream coming into a 8 bit hardware set up?

I tried calling Sony and I got three different answers on the question of 8 bit vs 10 bit. One guy said it was 8 bit, 10 bit and 12 bit (amazing!). The next said it was 8 bit. And then the third said absolutely 10 bit. The first guy sent me an info sheet on HDMI 1.3 to prove his point. The third sent me an info sheet that I haven't gotten yet. I'm sure it proves everything.

My question is to those who have more of a sense of things, why won't Sony say if it's 8 bit or 10 bit? They made a point in their marketing of the XBR8 of saying it was 10 bit and had billions of colors. If this TV was 10 bit, wouldn't they be touting billions of colors again?

Thanks for the replies. This is a great forum, a lot over my head, but still a great forum.
8 bit overdrive panels will display the full rec 2020 UHD color gamut just fine . 10 bit and 12 bit (more likely to be 10 bit overdrive panels ) will only offer smoother gray scale and color gradation and less color banding as a result .
e.g, Frame Rate Control / Temporal Dithering
The latest algorithms allow the full color palettes to display .

HDTV or rec 709 TV can not display 10 bit color with rec 709 but only 8 bit color palette within rec 709 the 10 bit panels only offer smoother gradation and (less dithering in some cases )


The maximum amount of colors achievable from liquid crystal ( LCD) pixel rotation alone without dithering is 262,144.
see below .


EDIT this information is in an article about PC monitor TN LCD panels some of this information may or may not not exactly apply to VA and IPS LCD TV panels most of it will . The 262,144 liquid crystal rotation color limitation may not apply to modern IPS and VA type panels ,.


Quote:
Dithering and Frame Rate Control (FRC) relate to the colour depth of a monitor panel and are technologies used to boost the colours which the matrix can display. For instance TN Film screens are traditionally more economical than other technologies when it comes to colour depth. In fact, they only display 64 red, 64 blue and 64 true green shades by default through pixel rotations. The maximum amount of colours achievable from liquid crystal rotation alone is 262,144. In order to reach 16 million colours and above, panel manufacturers commonly use two technologies: Dithering and Frame Rate Control (FRC). These terms are often interchanged, but strictly can mean different things.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/features....htm#dithering
AFAIK The latest algorithms allow the full color 8 or 10 bit color palettes to display on 6 or 8 bit panels respectively .

Last edited by tubetwister; 08-14-2014 at 08:42 AM.
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post #4170 of 6558 Old 08-14-2014, 07:58 AM
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8 bit overdrive panels will display the full rec 2020 UHD color gamut just fine . 10 bit and 12 bit (more likely to be 10 bit overdrive panels ) will only offer smoother gray scale and color gradation and less color banding as a result .
e.g, Frame Rate Control / Temporal Dithering
The latest algorithms allow the full color palettes to display .

HDTV or rec 709 TV can not display 10 bit color with rec 709 but only 8 bit color palette within rec 709 the 10 bit panels only offer smoother gradation and (less dithering in some cases )


The maximum amount of colors achievable from liquid crystal ( LCD) pixel rotation alone without dithering is 262,144.
see below .




AFAIK The latest algorithms allow the full color 8 or 10 bit color palettes to display on 6 or 8 bit panels respectively .
Wow, that is an awesome response and explanation. The link provided was great too. So temporal dithering allows for a mixture of colors to produce an additional color. By improving the algorithm and speeding it up the effect would be imperceptable unless under testing conditions. I would think this would work even better on UHD with the greatly increased number of pixels to work with. It also means that manufacturers with faster speeds and better programming would be at a severe advantage when it comes to keeping "older" tech from appearing old. At some point the difference between screens would only be detected in the laboratory and our eyes wouldn't be able to pick it up.

So is it a rule of thumb that 8 bit can jump to an effective 10 bit output but not jump up 2 levels to 12 bit? I would think that on a HDTV that would be true but given the increase in pixels for UHD that the possibility of producing an even greater color spectrum is there. I'm just not sure if it would degrade the picture. The crazy thing is that the human eye can only distinguish about 10 million colors so if a display can produce a billion colors, what advantage is there to producing more?
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