2014 Panasonic AX800 and AX900 4K FALD LED/LCD lineup - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 299 Old 03-24-2014, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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[EDIT: The below post is ERRONEOUS based on the erroneous initial article published by HDTVTEST. They published a correction the next day stating that the AX800 is Edge Lit Pseudo-local Dimming (ELPD) while the AX900 is in fact Full Array Local Dimming (FALD). I'm not going to correct the initial post beyond this comment since it has already been copied and reposted...]

Two articles posted today on the Panasonic AX800 and AX900.

The most important one is this HDTVTEST article found by jetjockey: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ax900-201403243688.htm

Most important point is that both the AX800 and AX900 are confirmed by Panasonic to be FALD:

'Contrary to what you might have heard or read before, a Panasonic spokesperson told HDTVTest that the AX800 – comprising the 50in TX-50AX800, the 58in TX-58AX800 and the 65in TX-65AX800 – features full-array local dimming LED backlight with 32 dimmable zones (branded as “Local Dimming PRO” by the Japanese manufacturer).'

'The range-topping Viera AX900 gets an upgrade in the number of LED clusters that can be switched on or off independently of each other, but only on the smaller screen sizes. The 55″ TX55AX900 and the 65″ TX65AX900 direct LED televisions will feature 128 dimming zones, carrying a moniker of “Local Dimming ULTRA”.

Only the 58" AX800 has been priced so far (MSRP of $3800) so we will need to wait to see where the 65" AX900 prices, but in any case, it is great to see a major brand with Panasonic's reputation for PQ commit the entire top of their 2014 lineup to FALD!

Here is the second article that posted today from flatpanelshd: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1395647244 (much less information, but confirmation that Panasonic appears to have begun a campaign).
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post #2 of 299 Old 03-24-2014, 09:28 PM
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Looks like they are keeping DisplayPort on their panels, that makes it very interesting as long as they got rid of the flaws of last years models
*UFO*, ChadThunder and soapbox like this.
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post #3 of 299 Old 03-24-2014, 10:09 PM
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If Panasonic can follow through and deliver a set with low input lag like in their previous line-ups (excluding 2013), then I will be very interested in these.
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post #4 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golem View Post

Looks like they are keeping DisplayPort on their panels, that makes it very interesting as long as they got rid of the flaws of last years models

 

Indeed, 2014 Panasonic 4K TVs may be the only way for us PC gamers to enjoy 4K gaming at 60P this year.

 

I just seriously hope they fixed those vertical bars from last year's model...

 

Speaking of DisplayPort, anyone knows how to get sound from PC to AV receiver when the graphics card only has DisplayPort outputs, and no HDMI?


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post #5 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Only the 58" AX800 has been priced so far (MSRP of $3800) .

I hope that is the suggested MSRP.
I wonder what the price hike will be on the AX900 compared to that
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post #6 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapbox View Post

Speaking of DisplayPort, anyone knows how to get sound from PC to AV receiver when the graphics card only has DisplayPort outputs, and no HDMI?
You get a DisplayPort to HDMI adapter that supports audio.
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post #7 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Two articles posted today on the Panasonic AX800 and AX900.

The most important one is this HDTVTEST article found by jetjockey: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ax900-201403243688.htm

Most important point is that both the AX800 and AX900 are confirmed by Panasonic to be FALD:

'Contrary to what you might have heard or read before, a Panasonic spokesperson told HDTVTest that the AX800 – comprising the 50in TX-50AX800, the 58in TX-58AX800 and the 65in TX-65AX800 – features full-array local dimming LED backlight with 32 dimmable zones (branded as “Local Dimming PRO” by the Japanese manufacturer).'
 

I checked the HDTVTest article today and it says AX800 is Edge-lit, not FALD:

 

The Panasonic AX800 – comprising the 50in TX-50AX800, the 58in TX-58AX800 and the 65in TX-65AX800 – features edge LED backlight with pseudo-local dimming (branded as “Local Dimming PRO” by the Japanese manufacturer).

 

Am I missing something?


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post #8 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post


You get a DisplayPort to HDMI adapter that supports audio.

Thanks for a quick reply. Does that include bit-streaming of DTS-HD and TrueHD?


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post #9 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapbox View Post

Thanks for a quick reply. Does that include bit-streaming of DTS-HD and TrueHD?
It claims to have that support. Some of that depends on the sound device integrated into the graphics card of the PC.
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post #10 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post


It claims to have that support. Some of that depends on the sound device integrated into the graphics card of the PC.

I'm looking at the new Radeon R9 295X2 that handles 4K pretty well, but it only comes with 4x miniDisplayports, no HDMI, hence the question. :-)


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post #11 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapbox View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Two articles posted today on the Panasonic AX800 and AX900.


The most important one is this HDTVTEST article found by jetjockey: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ax900-201403243688.htm


Most important point is that both the AX800 and AX900 are confirmed by Panasonic to be FALD:


'Contrary to what you might have heard or read before, a Panasonic spokesperson told HDTVTest that the AX800 – comprising the 50in TX-50AX800, the 58in TX-58AX800 and the 65in TX-65AX800 – features full-array local dimming LED backlight with 32 dimmable zones (branded as “Local Dimming PRO” by the Japanese manufacturer).'

 
I checked the HDTVTest article today and it says AX800 is Edge-lit, not FALD:

The Panasonic AX800 – comprising the 50in TX-50AX800, the 58in TX-58AX800 and the 65in TX-65AX800 – features edge LED backlight with pseudo-local dimming (branded as “Local Dimming PRO” by the Japanese manufacturer).

Am I missing something?

HDTVTEST posted a correction the next day and I thought I had edited all of my mistaken posts based on the initial article, but looks like I missed this one.

AX800 is edge lit pseudo-local dimming (ELPD)
AX900 is full array local dimming (FALD)
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post #12 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golem View Post

Looks like they are keeping DisplayPort on their panels, that makes it very interesting as long as they got rid of the flaws of last years models

I completely agree. I loved their first 4k as I thought the colors and especially the DisplayPort was a great thing, but with the damn vertical lines that showed through it was in no way acceptable. If they can deliver a set without those lines and continue to improve black level and reduce input lag, I would definitely get one.

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post #13 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapbox View Post

Indeed, 2014 Panasonic 4K TVs may be the only way for us PC gamers to enjoy 4K gaming at 60P this year.

I just seriously hope they fixed those vertical bars from last year's model...

Speaking of DisplayPort, anyone knows how to get sound from PC to AV receiver when the graphics card only has DisplayPort outputs, and no HDMI?

Get a sound card. When I had the first 4k Panasonic and of course took it back, what I used was a USB Sound Blaster External Sound Card. It just plugged into the USB port, then I ran a Optical Cable from it to my receiver and boom, 5.1 audio with video being sent by Display Port. Damn, it was incredible gaming at 4k/60fps, but those damn lines!

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post #14 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapbox View Post

Thanks for a quick reply. Does that include bit-streaming of DTS-HD and TrueHD?

That will not work if you want to maintain 4k @60fps though. The HDMI ports on the new Panasonic should be HDMI 2.0, but there is no such adapter that takes Display Port to HDMI 2.0. The adapter that guy is talking about, would send your audio, but it would limit your framerate to 30fps at 4k.

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post #15 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post


Get a sound card. When I had the first 4k Panasonic and of course took it back, what I used was a USB Sound Blaster External Sound Card. It just plugged into the USB port, then I ran a Optical Cable from it to my receiver and boom, 5.1 audio with video being sent by Display Port. Damn, it was incredible gaming at 4k/60fps, but those damn lines!

Hi Hawkmoon 

 

I thought optical cable cannot bitstream DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD? I thought one needed HDMI for supplying Hi-Res multichannel audio to receiver...


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post #16 of 299 Old 04-13-2014, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post


That will not work if you want to maintain 4k @60fps though. The HDMI ports on the new Panasonic should be HDMI 2.0, but there is no such adapter that takes Display Port to HDMI 2.0. The adapter that guy is talking about, would send your audio, but it would limit your framerate to 30fps at 4k.

No, no, I only need the adapter to supply audio to AV receiver.

 

4K @ 60p will be sent to TV's displayport input from a separate displayport output on the graphics card.

 

There are 4 miniDisplayports on R9 295X2, so this shouldn't be a problem using desktop cloning? Or is it?


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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

HDTVTEST posted a correction the next day and I thought I had edited all of my mistaken posts based on the initial article, but looks like I missed this one.

AX800 is edge lit pseudo-local dimming (ELPD)
AX900 is full array local dimming (FALD)


How can it be edge lit when it has 32 zones, more than Vizio's E & M series, which are full FALD despite the lack of zones?
It's either full array local dimming or not.
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post #18 of 299 Old 04-14-2014, 01:25 PM
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Is the 65" passive or active 3D?
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post #19 of 299 Old 04-14-2014, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

HDTVTEST posted a correction the next day and I thought I had edited all of my mistaken posts based on the initial article, but looks like I missed this one.

AX800 is edge lit pseudo-local dimming (ELPD)
AX900 is full array local dimming (FALD)


How can it be edge lit when it has 32 zones, more than Vizio's E & M series, which are full FALD despite the lack of zones?
It's either full array local dimming or not.

The M Series has 32 zones, organized as an 8 vertical X 4 horizontal matrix of dimming zones.

The E Series has 16 zones, organized as an 8 vertical x 2 horizontal matrix of dimming zones (the same organization as the pseudo-local dimming zones of an edge-lit set, but all of the LEDs are directly behind the LCD panel rather than being only along the outer edge).

The AX800, assuming it has 32 pseudo-local dimming zones, would be organized as a 16 vertical x 2 horizontal matrix of edge-lit dimming zones. Since the reference to the 32 dimming zones in the AX800 was from the same initial mistaken article from HDTVTEST, I'm not sure the AX800 actually has 32 dimming zones.

In any case, dimming zones and whether the LEDs are located behind the LCD panel or along its edges are independent factors (though once the dimming zones are organized in a true X x Y matrix where X and Y are both >2, that is only possible with a Full Array Backlight).
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post #20 of 299 Old 04-21-2014, 07:02 PM
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Well it looks like the 58" version has been released as the Panasonic Website now allows you to order it. It is showing up for $500 off the MSRP. Anyone going to take the plunge? I want to really badly as the display port for 4k gaming is what I am after, but after being burned by Panasonic's previous 4k, I might wait and see. I am also looking more towards the 65" version and their high-end 65" version. I just hope input lag and the dreaded vertical lines are not in this one as well. So who is jumping in first??? lol

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post #21 of 299 Old 04-21-2014, 07:25 PM
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Another update...

Best Buy is now showing both the AX80058" & 65" available to be ordered. Prices seem pretty competitive with existing 4k panels that are currently out. The 65" is listed at $3999.98 (shows it as $500.00 off), the 58" is listed at $3299.98 ($500 off). I am so tempted to give the 65" a shot. Panasonic are the only ones providing a Display Port which means I don't have to get rid of my current GPU's to drive the resolution. I have to talk to the wife to see what she has to say about it. She already green lighted getting a new 4k towards the end of the year when I was thinking of the flagship Sony or the AX900, but for me because of wanting it mainly for gaming, not sure if I need to go with the "TOP OF THE LINE" set. Decisions, decisions.... smile.gif

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post #22 of 299 Old 04-22-2014, 04:51 PM
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Hi


some off Pany infos always "fake" !I do not believe them! we need a tear-down picture? (I'm talking about Full-LED+LocalDimming)

therefore sounds is good and FALD is ok but is it true! and how does it work?

have to wait until user comments and also prof.test reviews

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post #23 of 299 Old 04-23-2014, 12:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albani View Post

Hi


some off Pany infos always "fake" !I do not believe them! we need a tear-down picture? (I'm talking about Full-LED+LocalDimming)

therefore sounds is good and FALD is ok but is it true! and how does it work?

have to wait until user comments and also prof.test reviews

Only the AX900 is supposed to be FALD. The AX800, which is what is being released now, is edge-lit and is not FALD. The AX900 is not coming out until late this year.
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post #24 of 299 Old 04-23-2014, 01:48 AM
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thx fr reply fafrd+

well at least my current panel Tosh SV is FALD and I'm still happy with this unit
so I prefer for my new panel with FALD as well,EDGE-LED suck and with lot of issues!
or after 1/2 years if we wait then shift to "OLED" panels and in fact TFT-LCD with EDGE/FL etc., are "DEAD"! tech

we have to see the new tech ....LED s such as Oled/Amoled and many others;FED/SED .....

PDP ise Dead(at least Pio and Pany closed)
TFT-LCD Dead too!!

lets look new type of panels tech with "reasonable" prices as well

Bye++

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Anyone find out what kind of 3d these sets have yet?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golem View Post

Anyone find out what kind of 3d these sets have yet?

The AX800 series is Adaptive. I am not 100% sure on the AX900, but I am going to assume adaptive as well.

Oddly enough...Best Buy has now removed the listing of both AX800 from their website. Wonder what is going on? On Panasonic's own site, they only list the 58" version as being available to order.

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post #27 of 299 Old 04-23-2014, 11:28 AM
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Adaptive? Isn't 3D either active or passive?
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post #28 of 299 Old 04-23-2014, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by golem View Post

Anyone find out what kind of 3d these sets have yet?

The AX800 series is Adaptive. I am not 100% sure on the AX900, but I am going to assume adaptive as well.

Oddly enough...Best Buy has now removed the listing of both AX800 from their website. Wonder what is going on? On Panasonic's own site, they only list the 58" version as being available to order.

bad sign :-(
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post #29 of 299 Old 04-23-2014, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albani View Post


I prefer for my new panel with FALD as well,EDGE-LED suck and with lot of issues!
or after 1/2 years if we wait then shift to "OLED" panels and in fact TFT-LCD with EDGE/FL etc., are "DEAD"! tech

If OLED materializes as a mas-market TV technology and eventually displaces LED/LCD as the dominant TV technology, it is going to take waaaay longer than 1/2 year - more like 5 years (at best). Even LG is not forecasting any meaningful volume of OLED TV sales before 2016, and even the 1M units they are hoping to ship by the end of 2016 (2-1/2 years from now) would represent less than 0.5% of total TV shipments that year...

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lets look new type of panels tech with "reasonable" prices as well

I hope that 2014 proves to be the year that price reduction in the cost of LEDs result in low-cost full-array local dimming backlights re-emerging to displace edge-lit LED backlights as the dominant LED/LCD technology, at least at the higher-end, higher-panel sizes.

Panasonic and Sony still seem to have their heads in the sand and are stuck in 2011-era Sharp-Elite-level FALD pricing. Vizio and Toshiba (and Sharp, thought they are unfortunately still stuck with edge-lit this year) are leading the new 2014 pricing for premium FALD TVs and let's all hope they are successful.

First pricing for the Toshiba 65L9400U has arrived and it looks like it is going to have an MSRP of $4000 and a street price of around $3700: http://www.edinw.com/EDI_Controls/itemDetail.aspx?iID=65L9400U

Between that price for the L9400U and $2200 for the 65" Vizio P Series (and hopefully the 65" Vizio R Series if it ever gets priced and ever materializes), I am hopeful that 2014 will be the year you can buy a Sharp-Elite-class 60"-70" FALD LED/LCD at about half the price the Sharp Elite commanded in 2011 (and with UHD resolution to boot).

If that proves to be the case, I would rather pick up one of those premium FALD LED/LCDs for the next few years while I wait for OLED technology to mature and come down to lower-than-LCD prices (which it will have to do if it is ever going to become the dominant TV technology).
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post #30 of 299 Old 04-23-2014, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

Adaptive? Isn't 3D either active or passive?

lol...sorry, meant to say active.

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