Toshiba 55L7400U - Page 19 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #541 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 12:47 AM
Member
 
Mrke1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by dandiego View Post

Or a full array set without true local dimming. I'm curious to see if disabling Dynalight results in zones being visible in the mouse cursor test (assuming the set actually has dimming zones).

That is sounding like a FA without local dimming. Something is amiss.
Mrke1 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #542 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 03:20 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
michaeltscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 17,759
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 957 Post(s)
Liked: 768
I suspect that "Dynalight" is local dimming. I think that the UI uses a lot of antiquated terms.

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
michaeltscott is online now  
post #543 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 04:22 AM
Member
 
proyal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

I have been playing around with the set tonight and just finished using the S&M test disc to try and help me set it as best as I can do without calling Chad B to calibrate it.

To me, an untrained eye, the viewing angle is great. It is much better than my old RPTV. I am sure the IPS panel is helping this because I do not see the color shift like I did w/ Samsung sets when viewing them at Best Buy. I can sit in seats where I struggled to make out the image w/ my old TV and have no issues with this set.

I turned off the clear scan and I no longer have the soap opera effect.

The black levels also seem to be pretty good. When watching a movie at night the bars at the top and bottom do look close to black (see attached pics).

I tried to see if I could determine how many zones it has by hooking up my laptop via an HDMI cable and extending the screen. When I have it set to "all black" and put my cursor on the screen the entire screen has a light gray color so when moving it slowly I never see any zones light up individually. I will state that when I move the cursor back to the laptop and let it set a few seconds the screen does go completely black again... so maybe I'm not doing this correctly.

I run all my sources/sound through my Marantz/Atlantic Technology setup so I can't speak to the TV sound... I listened to it briefly when it was first hooked up and it was OK. If I find time tomorrow I'll turn the speakers on and give them a shot.

I am not used to a TV with ARC so it caught me off guard when I turned the TV off and then back on to find no sound through my receiver. Once I realized that I had to make the "receiver" primary in the main menu all was good.

I did have DynaLight on for a while. I didn't notice it until I was watching MLB TV. I happened to see the screen change slightly a few times to make the higher contrast. It wasn't bothersome but I did notice it (of course I'm really looking at this closely). I had it set to Low... I have since turned it off as I continue to figure out what settings I like best.

I did take it out of ECO mode and it does turn on quickly.

I haven't played around with the smart features much at all yet so no impressions there.

As I type this I have The Dark Night playing. Every time I peak over I think the set looks pretty darn good.

All in all I am pleased so far. I am looking forward to others providing impressions and looking forward professional reviews.




Jerry

Change the shutter of your camera to make clearer pictures.

Do test the new speaker system in the L7400. 15w + 15w =30W with 100Hz bass.

proyal is offline  
post #544 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 05:19 AM
Member
 
quern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I'll do what I can to change the shutter speed on my Camera.

I did find this on Toshiba's forum explaining Dynalight.

DynaLight dynamic backlight control utilizes advanced histogram technology to monitor the brightness of each video frame and automatically adjust backlight intensity based on what’s being shown. This precise signal analysis allows for 256 levels of control, and can create dynamic contrast seven to ten times what you’d normally get. The result is a powerful picture with deep blacks for increased detail and incredible depth.

I just turned the DynaLight on to "high" and my little cursor isn't bright enough to make out on the screen. When I move an open application to it like Google I see it w/out a problem. Then when I try to use just the cursor it is very faint. and hard to make out. I may have to perform this test at night to see if I can help determine the # of zones. I've never done this before so please don't count on me to figure this out but i'll do my best.
proyal likes this.
quern is offline  
post #545 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 05:56 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,128
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 661 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

I tried to see if I could determine how many zones it has by hooking up my laptop via an HDMI cable and extending the screen. When I have it set to "all black" and put my cursor on the screen the entire screen has a light gray color so when moving it slowly I never see any zones light up individually. I will state that when I move the cursor back to the laptop and let it set a few seconds the screen does go completely black again... so maybe I'm not doing this correctly.
Hmm... This either means it does not have local dimming, or if any pixels are lit on the screen it does not completely shut off any dimming zones. It's also possible the mouse cursor does not have enough white pixels to make the TV increase the brightness of the zone it's in which is why the zone doesn't stand out. What setting was Dynalight in during this test? By the way, did you mean dark gray color?
Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

I just turned the DynaLight on to "high" and my little cursor isn't bright enough to make out on the screen. When I move an open application to it like Google I see it w/out a problem. Then when I try to use just the cursor it is very faint. and hard to make out. I may have to perform this test at night to see if I can help determine the # of zones. I've never done this before so please don't count on me to figure this out but i'll do my best.
This test can probably only be done in the dark. Also, what preset picture mode do you have the TV in and what level was the backlight at?
Stereodude is offline  
post #546 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 06:10 AM
Member
 
quern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

Hmm... This either means it does not have local dimming, or if any pixels are lit on the screen it does not completely shut off any dimming zones. It's also possible the mouse cursor does not have enough white pixels to make the TV increase the brightness of the zone it's in which is why the zone doesn't stand out. What setting was Dynalight in during this test? By the way, did you mean dark gray color?
This test can probably only be done in the dark. Also, what preset picture mode do you have the TV in and what level was the backlight at?

Given that it was at night I called it light grey... just meaning that it isn't black. I don't know if I can adequately describe it.

I need to look at the backlight setting on the tv. I think it's set to 0 right now so I don't know if that may also be creating an issue with my test today to try and count the backlights. After reading the menu again it is making me wonder if it must be set to some other value. The menu sates "when in video mode and no signal is detected it is set to 0". I'm just a little confused with this setting and how i interacts with the set. If my son weren't watching Netflix on the unit right now I'd go into the menu to see what value it is at.
proyal likes this.
quern is offline  
post #547 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 06:14 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,128
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 661 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

Given that it was at night I called it light grey... just meaning that it isn't black. I don't know if I can adequately describe it.

I need to look at the backlight setting on the tv. I think it's set to 0 right now so I don't know if that may also be creating an issue with my test today to try and count the backlights. After reading the menu again it is making me wonder if it must be set to some other value. The menu sates "when in video mode and no signal is detected it is set to 0". I'm just a little confused with this setting and how i interacts with the set. If my son weren't watching Netflix on the unit right now I'd go into the menu to see what value it is at.
Interesting, so it wasn't quite black, or it was obviously glowing gray? Were you in complete darkness or was there still some ambient light?

FWIW, the LG LA9700 FALD sets didn't do any local dimming if the backlight brightness was set to 0. The higher the backlight brightness is set on the LG the more dramatic the local dimming effect is. Effectively the zones on the LG don't get any dimmer than the 0 setting for backlight brightness.
Stereodude is offline  
post #548 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 06:23 AM
Member
 
proyal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post


Interesting, so it wasn't quite black, or it was obviously glowing gray? Were you in complete darkness or was there still some ambient light?

FWIW, the LG LA9700 FALD sets didn't do any local dimming if the backlight brightness was set to 0. The higher the backlight brightness is set on the LG the more dramatic the local dimming effect is. Effectively the zones on the LG don't get any dimmer than the 0 setting for backlight brightness.

So back-light brightness to 0 = disabling local dimming ?

 

He should use a faster shutter speed on the camera to cash fast moving objects clearly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutter_speed

proyal is offline  
post #549 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 09:43 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,128
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 661 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by proyal View Post

So back-light brightness to 0 = disabling local dimming ?
That's not exactly what I was getting at. What I meant was that a brightness setting of 0 could set the backlight in each local dimming zone as dim as it can possibly get. As a result no local dimming is possible since each zone is already at it's minimum setting. Any setting over 0 would allow some dimming from the brighter level down to that minimum 0 setting in each zone. The higher the brightness is set, the more dramatic the local dimming would be. However, I don't know if that's how the Toshiba works. I simply mentioned that as a possible explanation on why he didn't see any local dimming since there's at least one other TV that behaves that way.
Stereodude is offline  
post #550 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 01:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

I'll do what I can to change the shutter speed on my Camera.

I did find this on Toshiba's forum explaining Dynalight.

DynaLight dynamic backlight control utilizes advanced histogram technology to monitor the brightness of each video frame and automatically adjust backlight intensity based on what’s being shown. This precise signal analysis allows for 256 levels of control, and can create dynamic contrast seven to ten times what you’d normally get. The result is a powerful picture with deep blacks for increased detail and incredible depth.

I just turned the DynaLight on to "high" and my little cursor isn't bright enough to make out on the screen. When I move an open application to it like Google I see it w/out a problem. Then when I try to use just the cursor it is very faint. and hard to make out. I may have to perform this test at night to see if I can help determine the # of zones. I've never done this before so please don't count on me to figure this out but i'll do my best.

quern,

thanks for all your efforts on this you are our eyes (and to a lesser extent ears biggrin.gif)

I think we should take a step back on this question of exposing dimming zones. Past FALD TVs made it relatively easy to expose dimming zones but that was actually a defect and an exact example of excessive blooming. So before trying to reach a conclusion as to whether this set is FALD or not, I would suggest to test informally for contrast.

Are you able to put up the ANSI checkerboard pattern (4x4 black and white checkerboard)? You are probably not able to measure contrast, but if you can look at how the blacks on this pattern change as you ramp backlight from zero to full, it should be clear if there is no local dimming behind the black rectangles (since they will get brighter along with the white squares). And you can also compare with dynalight 'OFF' versus 'ON'.

If we take Toshiba at their word, ANSI contrast with dynalight OFF should be ~1600:1 and with dynalight ON should be able to increase ANSI contrast to 11,00:1 - 16,000:1. This increase in ANSI contrast is something you should be able to see with your naked eye,

The other test to try would be a 'grey=scale checkerboard' if there is such a thing. Highest-contrast black-to-white checkerboard on the right side of the screen fading to highest shadow-detail dark-black-to-light-black on the left side of the screen. If the light black level on the left side of the screen is anything less than 1/5000th of the whitest white on the right ide of the screen and you can still make it out from the dark-black (shadow detail), then the contrast you are experiencing is going way beyond native contrast and there must be local dimming going on.

Unfortunately, doing a good job avoiding blooming/haloing is going to make it more difficult to confirm the presence of FALD - suggest we focus on verifying the stated claims in terms of dynamic contrast rather that trying to verify that we have been able to see dimming zones as in the past.
rlindo and proyal like this.
fafrd is offline  
post #551 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 01:39 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,128
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 661 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Are you able to put up the ANSI checkerboard pattern (4x4 black and white checkerboard)? You are probably not able to measure contrast, but if you can look at how the blacks on this pattern change as you ramp backlight from zero to full, it should be clear if there is no local dimming behind the black rectangles (since they will get brighter along with the white squares). And you can also compare with dynalight 'OFF' versus 'ON'.

If we take Toshiba at their word, ANSI contrast with dynalight OFF should be ~1600:1 and with dynalight ON should be able to increase ANSI contrast to 11,00:1 - 16,000:1. This increase in ANSI contrast is something you should be able to see with your naked eye,
That may not be as easy to see as you might think unless he covers up the white portions of the screen with something opaque so that only the black rectangles are visible.
proyal likes this.
Stereodude is offline  
post #552 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 01:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Are you able to put up the ANSI checkerboard pattern (4x4 black and white checkerboard)? You are probably not able to measure contrast, but if you can look at how the blacks on this pattern change as you ramp backlight from zero to full, it should be clear if there is no local dimming behind the black rectangles (since they will get brighter along with the white squares). And you can also compare with dynalight 'OFF' versus 'ON'.

If we take Toshiba at their word, ANSI contrast with dynalight OFF should be ~1600:1 and with dynalight ON should be able to increase ANSI contrast to 11,00:1 - 16,000:1. This increase in ANSI contrast is something you should be able to see with your naked eye,
That may not be as easy to see as you might think unless he covers up the white portions of the screen with something opaque so that only the black rectangles are visible.

Yeah, I realize that without a meter of some kind, getting any kind of quantitative measure is going to be impossible, but I am hoping that between playing with backlight brightness and with comparing Dynalight ON versus OFF, there will hopefully be an effect visible to the naked eye for a 7-10X increase in ANSII contrast.

It would be great if anyone on the thread had a contact with calibration experience - I'll but one of those guys could suggest a test pattern and a simple test to determine if there is any actual local dimming going on or not.

The fading checkerboard would be the easiest test to confirm with the naked eye - I am just unsure if such a test pattern exists (maybe someone with photoshop needs to generate it biggrin.gif)
proyal likes this.
fafrd is offline  
post #553 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 04:07 PM
Newbie
 
Thercon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
European guy here, so, the naming conventions for a couple functions aren't the same here.

DynaLight: a fancier name for dynamic backlight. Do NOT turn this off completely, or your TV will set all LEDs to the same brightness if there's any picture content. It's what happened to you, quern. You turned it off, and when you move the mouse button on screen, all LEDs turn on to the level set under backlight. Also, don't move around brightness, let it sit at 0, it has no influence on the backlight and simply washes out colours and blacks. On a FALD you should be able to leave the DynaLight setting on high. Might be the mouse cursor is too small for it to turn the brightness up. Try Medium or Low if it's too agressive, but don't go to off.

Dynamic Contrast: I assume this is what is called "Black/White Level" on the European sets. It artificially moves brightens bright parts of the picture, and darkens dark parts of the picture. Leave this off. It lets you perceive a picture as having more contrast, but crushes detail.

512 dimming zones: the L7400/7463 most definitely don't have 512 dimming zones. This was the 55ZL1 TV set, and it's to date one of the best FALD sets ever. Would have liked to compare it with the Sharp Elite series, but the sharp elites never made it to Europe, while the ZL1 never made it to the U.S.

What I do know is: each of the dots you see on the cut-out part of the screen (pic on page 7) contains 3 distinct LEDs. It is safe to assume that in the best case, each of these 3 LED dots can be regulated by itself. It might also be that some of these dots are linked to zones, but then you'd need to see the cut-out model while working. They did show off the 512 zones of the ZL1 like that, where you could see half the screen with picture content, and the other half without LCD panel with the LEDs working underneath.

In fact, I just remembered that the ZL1 had a demo mode, where you had to hold a button on the remote and one on the backpanel of the TV, and the TV would switch the whole LCD panel to white, with the LEDs brightening/darkening according to the picture content that was currently being fed to the TV.
rlindo and proyal like this.
Thercon is offline  
post #554 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 04:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

I'll do what I can to change the shutter speed on my Camera.

I did find this on Toshiba's forum explaining Dynalight.

DynaLight dynamic backlight control utilizes advanced histogram technology to monitor the brightness of each video frame and automatically adjust backlight intensity based on what’s being shown. This precise signal analysis allows for 256 levels of control, and can create dynamic contrast seven to ten times what you’d normally get. The result is a powerful picture with deep blacks for increased detail and incredible depth.

I just turned the DynaLight on to "high" and my little cursor isn't bright enough to make out on the screen. When I move an open application to it like Google I see it w/out a problem. Then when I try to use just the cursor it is very faint. and hard to make out. I may have to perform this test at night to see if I can help determine the # of zones. I've never done this before so please don't count on me to figure this out but i'll do my best.

quern,

thanks again for your valuable feedback as the first L7400U owner on the Forum.

There seems to be some confusion regarding what you meant by the highlighted statement.

If I have understood what you have tried to describe, when the panel is full black, the cursor remains dim and hard to see (but there is not increase in the panel brightness - it retains the same dark level).

But when you have a brighter screen than black, for example from the Google application, then the cursor appears very bright, correct?

Can you create a screen than has half the screen bright with something like google and half the screen black? If you can do that then it would be interesting to know what happens when the cursor is moved from the bright section to the dark segment.

Just want to confirm that so far, you have not seen any evidence of blooming and/or abrupt changes in background black intensity, but on the other hand, you have seen that the apparent brightness of your cursor appears much dimmer on an all-black background than it does on a bright background like google, is that correct?
proyal likes this.
fafrd is offline  
post #555 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 05:28 PM
Member
 
quern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

quern,

If I have understood what you have tried to describe, when the panel is full black, the cursor remains dim and hard to see (but there is not increase in the panel brightness - it retains the same dark level).

But when you have a brighter screen than black, for example from the Google application, then the cursor appears very bright, correct?

You are correct. The cursor is so light the screen just looks black. It's faint for a while then the screen goes "black" as if it's setting back to 0 because it doesn't see a video signal.

When I have the Google App on the screen the cursor is nice and bright.

I'll try to perform more tests tonight and see if I can capture the images w/ my camera.

Jerry
quern is offline  
post #556 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 05:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

quern,

If I have understood what you have tried to describe, when the panel is full black, the cursor remains dim and hard to see (but there is not increase in the panel brightness - it retains the same dark level).

But when you have a brighter screen than black, for example from the Google application, then the cursor appears very bright, correct?

You are correct. The cursor is so light the screen just looks black. It's faint for a while then the screen goes "black" as if it's setting back to 0 because it doesn't see a video signal.

When I have the Google App on the screen the cursor is nice and bright.

I'll try to perform more tests tonight and see if I can capture the images w/ my camera.

Jerry

Great. Do you have access to the ANSII contrast test pattern? (from a calibration disk or something)

Just found this on the forum: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mattsherr2/media/8x8bwcheck.jpg.html (from this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/729746/samsung-lcd-calibration-misstep/90)

If you can download that image and display it (in almost any resolution - does not need to be perfect), both playing around with how the white and black levels change with screen brightness settings as well as dynalight ON versus OFF and then also checking what happens with your cursor test over that background would all be pretty enlightening.

If nothing else, if the set has a web browser, you should be able to follow the link to display the test pattern within the browser.
fafrd is offline  
post #557 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 05:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
*UFO*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 174
This is looking less and less like a local dimming set, or even a direct lit set for that. It is extremely thin, and it should have a setting in the menu for local dimming, if it had it. It seems to be frame dimming.
*UFO* is offline  
post #558 of 905 Old 05-18-2014, 06:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
venus933's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

This is looking less and less like a local dimming set, or even a direct lit set for that. It is extremely thin, and it should have a setting in the menu for local dimming, if it had it. It seems to be frame dimming.

The set being thin in no way implies it's not full array (Vizio's are even thinner), just means more LEDs (and/or brighter ones) are being used. Also, Jerry is not reporting any flashing lighting, clouding or general uniformity issues of any kind even in a completely dark setting. And there's the obvious, Toshiba clearly states this is a Full Array back lit television. But Quantum Local Dimming may not mean true local dimming.

Samsung UN48H6350
Samsung PN60E7000
OPPO BDP-103 Universal Disc Player
MartinLogan Motion Vision Gloss Black 5-Channel Soundbar
MartinLogan Dynamo 700 10-inch Wireless Ready Subwoofer
venus933 is offline  
post #559 of 905 Old 05-19-2014, 01:11 AM
Member
 
quern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
All

I did my best late at night in a totally dark room to take pictures of the set. The Dynalight is at High and I have the backlight set to 30.

The attached pictures I know are not good because I used my droid to take them. I used my other camera but had the shutter priority too fast because it wasn't capturing anything.

Hopefully this will help shed some light on what I see.

Here is a picture of the excel screen to the bottom left. The green light is the Power Button on the set. You will notice a small section of the edge is lit.



When I was moving Excel around I noticed if I have it at the very top of the screen the entire edges of the TV will light up. I tried to capture the edges lit up in this shot. This is only like this when excel is at the top of the screen. The other shots only a small portion of the edge is lit up.



Here is a picture of Excel shrunk with my cursor to the right.



I tried to count the cursor each time it jumps. I was around 31/32 "jumps" when going vertical and I thought around 41 horizontal... but it just isn't easy to count the individual jump. I actually gave up trying to count.

I was watching a movie earlier tonight.. I had set the dynalight to 30 but hadn't re-set up my parameters using the spears and munsil disk (I reset the contrast and brightness after watching the show). What I did notice is that in some scenes the center of the shot had a lot of color/light... but say someones hair/head is in the top left corner. Rather than being black it was a shade of dark gray. I know my CRT would have been more black but I do not have any frame of reference to compare this to other LCD sets.

I considered this viewing experience when I was moving the Excel box around... So when moving the excel box around the TV screen I notice how the TV may have a band of horizontal light along the same plane as the excel screen. You may be able to see it in the pictures... it's just very hard to capture. I'm guessing that Thercon is correct that certain LED's are grouped together into zones. Just my 2 cents for an inexperienced LCD TV bloke.

My 2 & 3 year old's keep us very busy and I've been doing these tests after my wife falls asleep to not take away from our time together. I can't promise how often I can do this or if I'll get the answers or be able to perform the tests everyone is looking for. Hopefully someone more experienced than I will get a set and provide their comments/feedback also.

I will state that the viewing angles still impress me. Same with the picture. I watched a newer cartoon movie, the one with the turkeys going back in time, and the colors really pop off the screen. The night scenes in the Dark Night also look great. The movie earlier tonight is the first time I was thinking that the dark scenes looked cloudy.... it tended to be in the upper left corner of the set where the peoples head/hair or tree trunk were to be... but this may also be due to watching a movie after bumping up the dynalight to 30 and not dialing back the contrast, etc...

To this point I think my $1100 purchase has been a good investment....

I did send a message to digital trends and they reported back to me that they don't expect Toshiba to get them a set until Aug... Hopefully someone else gets a set sooner for a review.
Stereodude, rlindo, fafrd and 1 others like this.
quern is offline  
post #560 of 905 Old 05-19-2014, 01:59 AM
Member
 
sga000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
quern, I don't have the expertise to contribute anything to this discussion. But I just wanted to say thanks for all of your efforts and information! I've been following this thread, hoping to learn more about this TV, and you have certainly taken the first steps to get the actual details about it. And I'm glad you're taking time for the family!
sga000 is online now  
post #561 of 905 Old 05-19-2014, 04:20 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,128
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 661 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

I did my best late at night in a totally dark room to take pictures of the set. The Dynalight is at High and I have the backlight set to 30.

The attached pictures I know are not good because I used my droid to take them. I used my other camera but had the shutter priority too fast because it wasn't capturing anything.
Thanks for your additional testing. Is there a visible difference in the darkness of the rest of the screen between Dynalight at Med and High? Yesterday you reported the whole screen was uniformly gray with no obvious local dimming. It seems like last night you saw visible local dimming. Did you test to see if that was that from having the backlight above 0 or Dynalight at High?
proyal likes this.
Stereodude is offline  
post #562 of 905 Old 05-19-2014, 05:07 AM
Member
 
quern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I performed the test at 2am so I didn't check it with different levels of dynalight or backlight settings with my settings... But I did toggle between the setting I was using and Movie. Movie has the backlight set to 60... I think there may have been a slight difference in performance but I didn't have the energy run a battery of tests. I will try to find more time this week because it is helping me fine tune my settings.
proyal likes this.
quern is offline  
post #563 of 905 Old 05-19-2014, 05:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rlindo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ON, Canada
Posts: 4,747
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked: 143
Thanks Jerry for all your feedback. Much appreciated.
quern likes this.

ROB
rlindo is offline  
post #564 of 905 Old 05-19-2014, 11:20 AM
Member
 
Lostion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

Hello everyone i'm from europe too and this is my first post :).

 

I apologize for my bad grammar because my nativ speaking mother language is not english so sorry when some sentences has not the right grammar i give my best :)

 

@quern

 

Do you have any clouding or backlight bleeding? I ask because i have tested 14 TVs with Edge LED and all have clouding issues (some really heavy). So maybe you can help me because i will buy this TV, when it has no clouding or backlight bleeding (i hope not because of the Direct LED behind the panel).

 

Thanks :)

Lostion is offline  
post #565 of 905 Old 05-19-2014, 12:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

All

I did my best late at night in a totally dark room to take pictures of the set. The Dynalight is at High and I have the backlight set to 30.

The attached pictures I know are not good because I used my droid to take them. I used my other camera but had the shutter priority too fast because it wasn't capturing anything.

Hopefully this will help shed some light on what I see.

Here is a picture of the excel screen to the bottom left. The green light is the Power Button on the set. You will notice a small section of the edge is lit.



When I was moving Excel around I noticed if I have it at the very top of the screen the entire edges of the TV will light up. I tried to capture the edges lit up in this shot. This is only like this when excel is at the top of the screen. The other shots only a small portion of the edge is lit up.



Here is a picture of Excel shrunk with my cursor to the right.



I tried to count the cursor each time it jumps. I was around 31/32 "jumps" when going vertical and I thought around 41 horizontal... but it just isn't easy to count the individual jump. I actually gave up trying to count.

I was watching a movie earlier tonight.. I had set the dynalight to 30 but hadn't re-set up my parameters using the spears and munsil disk (I reset the contrast and brightness after watching the show). What I did notice is that in some scenes the center of the shot had a lot of color/light... but say someones hair/head is in the top left corner. Rather than being black it was a shade of dark gray. I know my CRT would have been more black but I do not have any frame of reference to compare this to other LCD sets.

I considered this viewing experience when I was moving the Excel box around... So when moving the excel box around the TV screen I notice how the TV may have a band of horizontal light along the same plane as the excel screen. You may be able to see it in the pictures... it's just very hard to capture. I'm guessing that Thercon is correct that certain LED's are grouped together into zones. Just my 2 cents for an inexperienced LCD TV bloke.

My 2 & 3 year old's keep us very busy and I've been doing these tests after my wife falls asleep to not take away from our time together. I can't promise how often I can do this or if I'll get the answers or be able to perform the tests everyone is looking for. Hopefully someone more experienced than I will get a set and provide their comments/feedback also.

I will state that the viewing angles still impress me. Same with the picture. I watched a newer cartoon movie, the one with the turkeys going back in time, and the colors really pop off the screen. The night scenes in the Dark Night also look great. The movie earlier tonight is the first time I was thinking that the dark scenes looked cloudy.... it tended to be in the upper left corner of the set where the peoples head/hair or tree trunk were to be... but this may also be due to watching a movie after bumping up the dynalight to 30 and not dialing back the contrast, etc...

To this point I think my $1100 purchase has been a good investment....

I did send a message to digital trends and they reported back to me that they don't expect Toshiba to get them a set until Aug... Hopefully someone else gets a set sooner for a review.

quern,

thanks for your effort on this.

Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we have a bit of blooming on the third image quern has posted. And were there is blooming there is local dimming - so I believe it is safe to conclude that the L7400U is a FALD LED/LCD (number of dimming zones still to be determined).
fafrd is offline  
post #566 of 905 Old 05-19-2014, 01:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
*UFO*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

quern,

thanks for your effort on this.

Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we have a bit of blooming on the third image quern has posted. And were there is blooming there is local dimming - so I believe it is safe to conclude that the L7400U is a FALD LED/LCD (number of dimming zones still to be determined).

Agreed. It also seems to have many more zones than the m series will.
*UFO* is offline  
post #567 of 905 Old 05-19-2014, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ducpiloti's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 16
No backlight bleed I am assuming....

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
ducpiloti is offline  
post #568 of 905 Old 05-19-2014, 02:17 PM
Member
 
anime513's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12

And what about gray uniformity? Any part of the screen noticeably darker when looking at a solid background?

 

Here's an idea of what I'm talking abouthttp://www.rtings.com/info/gray-uniformity-tvs-dirty-screen-effect-dse

anime513 is offline  
post #569 of 905 Old 05-19-2014, 02:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wtfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,419
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

quern,

thanks for your effort on this.

Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we have a bit of blooming on the third image quern has posted. And were there is blooming there is local dimming - so I believe it is safe to conclude that the L7400U is a FALD LED/LCD (number of dimming zones still to be determined).

But none of the black areas are black.
They are still grey-ish.
A true FALD set should display pitch black, a camera shouldn't be able to capture some light from a pure black screen. Only the blooming around the cursor or white box being displayed.
This doesn't seem to be the case.
wtfer is offline  
post #570 of 905 Old 05-19-2014, 02:47 PM
Senior Member
 
rtn5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post


Agreed. It also seems to have many more zones than the m series will.

How so?
rtn5000 is offline  
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays
Gear in this thread - 55L7400U by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off