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post #631 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 10:26 AM
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Which is movie mode? Is it the picture where the white's are white?
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post #632 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

Moderator

this is not a pricing thread, this is a thread about technical info on the Toshiba 55L7400U: kindly limit your discussion to the thread title

Thanks

I appreciate your efforts. If I might suggest, however, that pricing discussions be permitted on the basis of expanding the topic of discussion to "relative merit" rather than strictly one of technical specifications (certainly worth pointing out when making comparisons).
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post #633 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlppimp View Post

Which is movie mode? Is it the picture where the white's are white?

yeah movie is the one with the guy having the suit that is white rather than the purplish-bluish tint

ROB
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post #634 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

The camera angles were the same.

If I remember correctly the show was using blue lights and this is why you can see the blue hue in the other two pictures.

I think the difference is how The "Autoview" mode is automatically setting contrast, brightness, gamma and sharpness based on ambient room light conditions and incoming picture content. The Movie mode doesn't automatically change settings. I believe this is why the pictures look different and is also why the blacks are darker and light beams are thinner.

The issue for me is how off the greyscale is for the auto mode shot. With the movie preset the guy has a white suit, the table is white, etc. The auto mode it looks like the greyscale is jacked up where things take on a bluish/purple tint (almost seems like a filter was put in place) and it's just not a natural looking image at all. I have no doubt many would probably like that since it will probably look like it has more pop yet I'm an accuracy guy and I calibrate my displays and don't fiddle.

For me, that autoview mode seems to be doing way too much processing and changes. Reminds me of what many displays look like in dynamic mode.

The image from the movie mode shot looks fairly nice.

The comparison of the guy in the close-up shot doesn't show as big a difference which is odd. When you say incoming picture content do you mean it changes everything on the fly like say from scene to scene if there was a big enough difference between the two scenes? That's crazy if so.

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post #635 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

The comparison of the guy in the close-up shot doesn't show as big a difference which is odd. When you say incoming picture content do you mean it changes everything on the fly like say from scene to scene if there was a big enough difference between the two scenes? That's crazy if so.

That is my understanding from reading the manual. This is the excerpt from the manual.

AutoView™—Allows you to automatically adjust picture settings
including Brightness, Contrast, Gamma, and Sharpness based
on ambient room light conditions and incoming picture content
to create the best possible picture settings without any manual
adjustment.
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post #636 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 01:06 PM
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Nasty.

If I end up getting this TV then I'll have to take autoview through a calibration run just to see how out of whack it is. It'll be good for a chuckle.

ROB
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post #637 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

Nasty.

If I end up getting this TV then I'll have to take autoview through a calibration run just to see how out of whack it is. It'll be good for a chuckle.

I was trying to use my Spears & Munsil disk to help get things in line with AutoView... After I did this I ended up getting all sorts of wacky blacks where it looked like flashlighting, etc... I can only assume that it was over boosting my settings...

I since reset it to factory and all looks much better. I am now going to use the setup disc on Movie and see if I can get it tuned in better. I plan to have it calibrated but I'd like to determine if the set is worth keeping first... I have the hot 30 days to return if I don't like it.
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post #638 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thercon View Post

I can tell you why we Europeans get recording functionality, and you don't: the IP holders and stations were afraid that people could record shows on a HDD, read it out on the computer and put it up on the internet in perfect HD quality for everyone to download -> less streaming/bluray sales, less advertising money.
In the US they obviously held greater sway over lawmakers, and in Europe there's usually a provision in law allowing a copy for private use. As such, the provision for recording HD content is as such: can be recorded, but the record must be protected. It can only be viewed on the device it was recorded on and there's a copy protection so it can not be copied.

Thanks for the info. I believe we don't have it in the U.S. is primarily due to the fact that around 90% of households subscribe to some form of cable television. If the numbers were reversed as it was decades ago there would be a demand for such a feature. On the bright spot all ATSC over the air transmissions in the U.S. are free of copy protection by law and we are allowed to use them in accordance to federal laws (copyright). In fact, all my recordings on the TiVo, HomeWorx and the iView are there to view, edit and archive as I see fit.
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post #639 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

All:

Quick update.

I just reset to the factory defaults and re-watched The Voice via Hulu. The issues I was seeing have gone away and black levels do look more uniform.

these pictures are from the default settings so I believe I had an issue with how Contrast was set with Dynalight.

These pictures rotate from "auto' view to "movie"






The darker images are the "movie" mode.

Is it possible for you to take comparison pictures of those or similar screenshots with Dynalight (set at high) turned on & then completely off?
Those bright objects against dark black background should be perfect example of FALD technology.
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post #640 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 04:28 PM
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For the US television recording rathole, wrapped in [spoiler] tags to protect the uninterested biggrin.gif.

Converting Proprietary US Cable System Tech to Standard Form (Click to show)
The main complication of recording cable television in the United States is that it requires CableCARD, a separable security device. Content encrypted with proprietary cable system algorithms gets routed through the CableCARD, and if you're authorized to view the channel, decrypted and sent (in a standard encrypted form) to the device (television, PVR or PC tuner card). At first, many televisions had CableCARD slots built in (my 7 y/o one does), but the OEMs stopped adding them after one or two model years. Most cable TV customers use boxes leased from the cable company so there was relatively little interest.

To further complicate things, the cable companies started using a system call Switched Digital Video. All of the channels offered are not on the wire in any given neighborhood segment all of the time; the tuning process sends a request to the cable central office to tune the channel, and, if it's not there, bandwidth is allocate for it and it is placed on the tuner's network segment. The location of the channel (frequency band and MPEG Transport Stream program numbers) are sent by the cable headend back to the tuner. (A count of devices tuning a switched channel is kept and when it drops to zero the bandwidth consumed by the channeli becomes eligible to be recycled if it's needed). There are a few different proprietary SDV protocols (like the security protocols), so CableCARD devices can't talk them without being tied to that kind of system. Enter the Tuning Adapter, which takes tuning requests from a device over USB using a standard protocol, relays them to the cable headend using a proprietary SDV protocol and sends the response back to the tuning device when it receives it from the cable headend. Tuning Adapters are little boxes which the coax cable from the wall passes through and out into the tuning device.

SDV allows cable companies to make the most of their limited system bandwidth, allocating it dynamically as needed to carry channels actually being watched by one or most customers. It gives cable systems conceptually unbounded channel capacity. Thus far, I haven't heard that any cable provider has had the nerve to charge customers extra for the use of one, inasmuch as they committed to support of the CableCARD standard before the advent of SDV (they do charge for use of CableCARDs, but generally no more than a couple of a dollars each per month. AFAIK, only leased cable boxes and PVRs, TiVos, the PVRs from a now defunct company whose name escapes me and some PC tuner cards.

I use a four tuner TiVo with a single cable MultiCARD; it and the Tuning Adapter can handle up to six channels.

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
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post #641 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 05:57 PM
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Interesting article about Toshiba's plans for 2014, offering "premium 2k" sets.

http://www.avforums.com/interview/premium-2k-toshiba-think-theres-still-a-strong-market-for-full-hd-tvs.10343

speaks more to the Euro market but should still have relevance to NA.
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post #642 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Is it possible for you to take comparison pictures of those or similar screenshots with Dynalight (set at high) turned on & then completely off?
Those bright objects against dark black background should be perfect example of FALD technology.

Here you go: In this scene it looks like they had something in front of him flickering... flames maybe becuase later you see flames light up around him. I believe this is what is driving his white suite to not look white. My camera also appears to be making it look a bit more discolored than it is on the screen.

Movie Dynalight - High



Movie Dynalight - Low


Movie Dynalight - Off



Auto - Dynalight High



Auto Dynalight Low


Auto Dynalight Off
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post #643 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 08:52 PM
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Dynalight sure doesn't seem to be doing anything on that scene. confused.gif

The dimming zones must not be very small or the background is not black.
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post #644 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 08:53 PM
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Yes... I think in that scene it is subtle.
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post #645 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 09:03 PM
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Here is a different scene.

Movie Hi



Movie Low



Movie Off
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post #646 of 912 Old 05-21-2014, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

Here you go: In this scene it looks like they had something in front of him flickering... flames maybe becuase later you see flames light up around him. I believe this is what is driving his white suite to not look white. My camera also appears to be making it look a bit more discolored than it is on the screen.

Thanks for the comparison pics.
Dynalight on high definitely looks to make a difference, but not a huge difference compared to when it's off.
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post #647 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 02:55 PM
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Wow... the board has been very quite. I must have scared everyone away with the pictures from my set... biggrin.gif
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post #648 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 02:59 PM
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quern, are you leaning towards keeping your set?
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post #649 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

Wow... the board has been very quite. I must have scared everyone away with the pictures from my set... biggrin.gif
I don't know about that. I can't see the impact of the local dimming in the pictures. I'm not saying there isn't one. But I can't see it. As such, I don't have anything to say. Thanks for posting the pictures though.
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post #650 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

I don't know about that. I can't see the impact of the local dimming in the pictures. I'm not saying there isn't one. But I can't see it. As such, I don't have anything to say. Thanks for posting the pictures though.

Without direct comparisons, unless we have low APL scenes (I think Hannibal or a space show would be good) it may be hard to see the impact. It much easier when making a direct comparison to an edge lit and a FALD screen if both are calibrated the same as well as showing the same exact feed side by side......Not to mention the addition that we don't know the camera or settings used and that can distort the picture further.
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post #651 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 03:19 PM
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I really appreciate the time you are taking to give us your impressions of the TV.

Overall how do you like it? Any distracting artifacts that keep you from enjoying programs that you are watching?

If you have the time would mind hooking up a laptop and extending the desktop to the tv and then moving a window so that is half on the tv and half on the laptop. When you move the window around you can see how much the tv lags the laptop. Try it in gaming mode and also movie mode just to see if there is a difference. Here is an example of what I am talking about (30 seconds into the video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXMsmQqV6zs
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post #652 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 03:21 PM
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I think I am going to keep it. I just wish I had more experience with LED sets to know if it is in line or better than similar sets. The current cost on Amazon seems pretty good for what it is supposed to be.

I also wonder how well it will do after a good professional calibration. I will have it done if I keep it.

This weekend I'm going to use my setup disc on Movie mode and see if I dial it in better. I just have this feeling that by "dialing" in the Auto mode the set was overcompensating for ambient room light. You can't turn the sensor off in Auto mode and when I did a reset the issues went away.
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post #653 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quern View Post

I think I am going to keep it. I just wish I had more experience with LED sets to know if it is in line or better than similar sets. The current cost on Amazon seems pretty good for what it is supposed to be.

I also wonder how well it will do after a good professional calibration. I will have it done if I keep it.

This weekend I'm going to use my setup disc on Movie mode and see if I dial it in better. I just have this feeling that by "dialing" in the Auto mode the set was overcompensating for ambient room light. You can't turn the sensor off in Auto mode and when I did a reset the issues went away.

send it back and go pick up a Vizio M or E and give us your impressions on which is the better set. tongue.gif Also, i just found out that my older LG LH30 LCD(I LOVE this tv, except for it's lighter shade of blacks, because it does everything else right, at least for me.) has a peak brightness of 500nits....The vizio E(300nits) & M(350nits) will not be bright enough for my needs. Didn't somebody mention that the L7400 has 700nits of brightness? That's more than enough for me.

BTW, here's a polish review if anybody knows the language or is willing to translate. :P http://www.hdtv.com.pl/forum/toshiba/109088-toshiba-55-l7453-test-tv-lcd-model-cevo-ze-strefowym-podswietleniem-led-czyli-uczta-dla-oczu.html#post1031191
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post #654 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

send it back and go pick up a Vizio M or E and give us your impressions on which is the better set. tongue.gif Also, i just found out that my older LG LH30 LCD(I LOVE this tv, except for it's lighter shade of blacks, because it does everything else right, at least for me.) has a peak brightness of 500nits....The vizio E(300nits) & M(350nits) will not be bright enough for my needs. Didn't somebody mention that the L7400 has 700nits of brightness? That's more than enough for me.

BTW, here's a polish review if anybody knows the language or is willing to translate. :P http://www.hdtv.com.pl/forum/toshiba/109088-toshiba-55-l7453-test-tv-lcd-model-cevo-ze-strefowym-podswietleniem-led-czyli-uczta-dla-oczu.html#post1031191

That site claims the L7400U has just eight local dimming zones, however, if that review is correct, this tv has a input lag of 7.8ms when measured in the middle! eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif Im sold. The 4k version may actually live up to the incredibly low input lag claim. cool.gif
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post #655 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 05:40 PM
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Why is clouding in the "Sync of Beauty" but in the picture under the Sync picture not but then again clouding? Look at the pictures after "Sync of Beauty" That looks wired for me?

 

Seems like a local dimming issue and the blacks are not really good :/

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post #656 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 05:47 PM
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The reviewer seemed to really like it so that's a positive and as stated, the lag test that was run gave a really low amount. The reviewer seemed to say the black level was good as well based on the end with the google translation.

ROB
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post #657 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

That site claims the L7400U has just eight local dimming zones, however, if that review is correct, this tv has a input lag of 12.4ms eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif Im sold. The 4k version may actually live up to the incredibly low input lag claim. cool.gif
Yeah, i'm almost sold on the L7400U, i don't care if it just eight local dimming zones, the fact that it's FALD, has deep black levels, capable of an ultra bright image with a peak brightness 700nits(correct me if i'm wrong.) and an outstanding(if true) 12ms of lag Makes this a winner in my eyes. I will definitely NOT be getting either Vizio E or M series now.

BTW, did the review use the Leo B to get 12ms? I kind of skimmed through it all. :P
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post #658 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Yeah, i'm almost sold on the L7400U, i don't care if it just eight local dimming zones, the fact that it's FALD, has deep black levels, capable of an ultra bright image with a peak brightness 700nits(correct me if i'm wrong.) and an outstanding(if true) 12ms of lag Makes this a winner in my eyes. I will definitely NOT be getting either Vizio E or M series now.

BTW, did the review use the Leo B to get 12ms? I kind of skimmed through it all. :P

Yes they used the LB input lag tester and got 3.3ms at the top, 7.8ms in the middle, and 12.4ms at the bottom, which is the fastest tv yet. So fast in fact that it is faster than most monitors. Even if it did not have the best black levels, the fact that it us an IPS panel and has local dimming would make this tv a gamers dream. It should also be noted that they reviews the 42" model, so the larger models most likely have more zones.
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post #659 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Yeah, i'm almost sold on the L7400U, i don't care if it just eight local dimming zones, the fact that it's FALD, has deep black levels, capable of an ultra bright image with a peak brightness 700nits(correct me if i'm wrong.) and an outstanding(if true) 12ms of lag Makes this a winner in my eyes. I will definitely NOT be getting either Vizio E or M series now.

BTW, did the review use the Leo B to get 12ms? I kind of skimmed through it all. :P

The screenshots showing the lag have leob in the bottom corner so I'd guess yes.

Now the question is the L7400 the same as this European TV in terms of performance.

ROB
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post #660 of 912 Old 05-22-2014, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Yeah, i'm almost sold on the L7400U, i don't care if it just eight local dimming zones, the fact that it's FALD, has deep black levels, capable of an ultra bright image with a peak brightness 700nits(correct me if i'm wrong.) and an outstanding(if true) 12ms of lag Makes this a winner in my eyes. I will definitely NOT be getting either Vizio E or M series now.

BTW, did the review use the Leo B to get 12ms? I kind of skimmed through it all. :P

LOL! You mean as of today.

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