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-   -   Toshiba 55L7400U (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/1525383-toshiba-55l7400u.html)

ducpiloti 04-01-2014 02:04 PM

I see this is Toshiba's 2014 model with FALD and a 240Hz clearscan rate. At $1200 this could be quite a deal.

http://www.abt.com/product/77786/Toshiba-55L7400U.html

- 1080p Full HD
- Toshiba Radiance Full Array LED Panel
- SuperBright LED
- Wide Color Gamut
- Quantum Black Local Dimming
- ClearScan® 240Hz
- CQ Engine™ - Dual + Single Core
- Smart TV with Cloud Portal
- Labyrinth Speaker System
- DTS Premium Sound™

Any idea when this is going to be officially available? I can't even find any extended info on this model including info on the Smart TV implementation. Also, some people are saying this is a 60Hz panel but it says Clearscan 240Hz so I am thinking it's got to be at least a 120Hz panel that is interpolated to 240Hz?

fafrd 04-01-2014 05:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducpiloti View Post

I see this is Toshiba's 2014 model with FALD and a 240Hz clearscan rate. At $1200 this could be quite a deal.

http://www.abt.com/product/77786/Toshiba-55L7400U.html

- 1080p Full HD
- Toshiba Radiance Full Array LED Panel
- SuperBright LED
- Wide Color Gamut
- Quantum Black Local Dimming
- ClearScan® 240Hz
- CQ Engine™ - Dual + Single Core
- Smart TV with Cloud Portal
- Labyrinth Speaker System
- DTS Premium Sound™

I can't even find any extended info on this model including info on the Smart TV implementation. Also, some people are saying this is a 60Hz panel but it says Clearscan 240Hz so I am thinking it's got to be at least a 120Hz panel that is interpolated to 240Hz?

Unfortunately, it appears that the L7400U is a native 60Hz panel. From the L7400U Users Guide (found by DanDiego): http://support.toshiba.com/support/staticContentDetail?contentId=4005194&isFromTOCLink=false

Page 101: "ClearScan™ 240Hz uses both frame interpolation technology and advanced backlight control with image synchronization to quadruple the TV refresh rate for an even clearer fast motion video."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducpiloti View Post

Any idea when this is going to be officially available?

Amazon seems to think that the L7400U was first available March 10th: http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-55L7400U-55-Inch-1080p-240Hz/dp/B00IWW32L2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396398261&sr=8-1&keywords=L7400U#productDetails

Take that for what it is worth, but I suspect that it should be shipping soon...

Dr.Shankenstein 04-01-2014 06:45 PM

This is still a potentially great gaming console display. Similar to plasma displays that are native 60hz with sub-field/focus field drive (frame insertion) to achieve 600hz/2500ffd at 60fps motion in gaming is butter smooth. If you are a last gen or in some cases PS4/X1 owner playing a game locked 30fps(30hz) you begin to suffer from severe hitching and judder with panning camera shots. If the display is natively 60hz this phenomenon is far less severe. I have noticed that 60hz displays that use backlight scanning offer smoother motion experiences in gaming without the judder. Sorry that was a long winded explanation for "I am OK with 60hz."

ducpiloti 04-02-2014 02:05 PM

B&H photo has it at a better price: $1099

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1030219&gclid=CJWz5ILawr0CFdBqfgodo5MAXg&Q=&is=REG&A=details

otakunate 04-03-2014 01:08 AM

One cool thing, looking through the user guide it has 4:4:4 chroma support in game mode. As far as 60hz, 120, 240. I still don't understand what impact this has. It doesn't effect motion resolution. what's the advantages?

aridneptune 04-03-2014 05:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by otakunate View Post

One cool thing, looking through the user guide it has 4:4:4 chroma support in game mode. As far as 60hz, 120, 240. I still don't understand what impact this has. It doesn't effect motion resolution. what's the advantages?

My sense is that if one doesn't care about the software-enabled 'motion smoothing' it doesn't matter. Films are native 24fps anyway. I'm not aware of any content that's filmed at >60fps - in any case, the eye stops being able to tell after a certain point.

This TV is looking great to me - I just want to get more information on PQ and input lag and I'm in! I was going to get a W900A but am shying away from paying the Sony Tax. Also, of course, a FALD panel is hugely attractive...and I'd like a TV smaller than 55" (I believe the L7400 comes in 47" and 50" flavors as well).

otakunate 04-03-2014 05:15 AM

Yeah idk it seems like Toshiba is stepping it up. It ticks pretty much all the boxes. At a price that competes with vizio. I mean straight specs wise this tops the vizio M series right?

Bors Mistral 04-03-2014 06:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by aridneptune View Post

...My sense is that if one doesn't care about the software-enabled 'motion smoothing' it doesn't matter. Films are native 24fps anyway...

I don't care about software 'motion smoothing' at all, but an actual 120Hz panel is important. To give an example with the 24fps film content that you mention:
60/24 = 2.5
120/24 = 5
In the first case you have to use 2:3 pulldown for your movies, while on a real 120Hz TV with a 24 frame movie mode your 'film' content will do considerably better.

aridneptune 04-03-2014 10:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bors Mistral View Post

I don't care about software 'motion smoothing' at all, but an actual 120Hz panel is important. To give an example with the 24fps film content that you mention:
60/24 = 2.5
120/24 = 5
In the first case you have to use 2:3 pulldown for your movies, while on a real 120Hz TV with a 24 frame movie mode your 'film' content will do considerably better.

I see, thank you. I still haven't had any issues with my 60Hz set, but I understand how a true videophile would want 120.

fafrd 04-03-2014 04:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bors Mistral View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by aridneptune View Post

...My sense is that if one doesn't care about the software-enabled 'motion smoothing' it doesn't matter. Films are native 24fps anyway...

I don't care about software 'motion smoothing' at all, but an actual 120Hz panel is important. To give an example with the 24fps film content that you mention:
60/24 = 2.5
120/24 = 5
In the first case you have to use 2:3 pulldown for your movies, while on a real 120Hz TV with a 24 frame movie mode your 'film' content will do considerably better.

I want to correct my earlier post.

From the L7400U Users Guide (found by DanDiego): http://support.toshiba.com/support/staticContentDetail?contentId=4005194&isFromTOCLink=false

Page 101: "ClearScan™ 240Hz uses both frame interpolation technology and advanced backlight control with image synchronization to quadruple the TV refresh rate for an even clearer fast motion video."

I assumed (as did others reading this) that "quadruple the TV refesh rate" means that the native panel refresh rate is 60Hz, but thinking it over more carefully, this cannot be correct and this in not the correct reading.

Frame interpolation only has value for a panel that has a 120Hz native refresh rate. Incoming OTA video is at 60fps and frame interpolation can be used to create intermediate frames to have a resulting video stream at 120fps but this can only be used if the underlying is capable of accepting and displaying video at 120fps. So the L7400U must have a 120Hz native panel.

In addition, a 2-segment scanning backlight is used to reduce the pixel 'ON' time by 50%, resulting in an effective refresh rate of 240Hz.

The reference to 'quadruple the TV refresh rate' be in reference to the incoming 60Hz video signal, not the native panel refresh.

So use nothing and refresh is at 60fps with full pixel ON time of 16.7ms and motion blur is as bad as it can be at 100% brightness.

  • Use only motion interpolation and refresh rate in increased from 60fps to 120fps with pixel ON time of 8.4ms and motion blur is reduced by 50% (120Hz effective refresh rate) at 100% brightness.
  • Use only backlight scanning and effective refresh rate remains at 60fps but pixel ON time is reduced to 8.4ms and motion blur is reduced by 50% (120Hz effective refresh rate) at 50% brightness.
  • Use frame interpolation AND scanning backlight and refresh rate is increased to 120fps and pixel ON time reduces to 4.2ms so motion blur is reduced to 25% (250Hz effective refresh rate) at 50% brightness.

The LCD panel of the L7400U almost certainly has an LCD panel with a native refresh rate of 120Hz, not 60Hz.

ducpiloti 04-03-2014 06:36 PM

This set looks to be really interesting, now what's holding up sites like CNET to review it...geez! smile.gif

fafrd 04-03-2014 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducpiloti View Post

This set looks to be really interesting, now what's holding up sites like CNET to review it...geez! smile.gif

Still not shipping yet as near as I can tell...

Pioneer Insider 04-03-2014 07:56 PM

From what I know all UHD LCD/LED panels are 120Hz. 

 

Greg


otakunate 04-03-2014 08:22 PM

This is the 1080p set. But it's hard to believe they would use a 60hz panel In a set with these features.

fafrd 04-03-2014 09:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by otakunate View Post

This is the 1080p set. But it's hard to believe they would use a 60hz panel In a set with these features.

The L7400U is a 1080p panel (not UHD) and it is 120Hz native refresh rate (not 60Hz).

fafrd 04-04-2014 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducpiloti View Post

I see this is Toshiba's 2014 model with FALD and a 240Hz clearscan rate. At $1200 this could be quite a deal.

http://www.abt.com/product/77786/Toshiba-55L7400U.html

- 1080p Full HD
- Toshiba Radiance Full Array LED Panel
- SuperBright LED
- Wide Color Gamut
- Quantum Black Local Dimming
- ClearScan® 240Hz
- CQ Engine™ - Dual + Single Core
- Smart TV with Cloud Portal
- Labyrinth Speaker System
- DTS Premium Sound™

Any idea when this is going to be officially available? I can't even find any extended info on this model including info on the Smart TV implementation. Also, some people are saying this is a 60Hz panel but it says Clearscan 240Hz so I am thinking it's got to be at least a 120Hz panel that is interpolated to 240Hz?

Abt now says that the L7400U is on backorder and will ship in 1-3 weeks: http://www.abt.com/product/77786/Toshiba-55L7400U.html

ducpiloti 04-06-2014 10:15 AM

Great, if it's here in 3 weeks then we should be seeing reviews pretty soon i'm guessing. This may be a better FALD choice than the new M series, i've heard Vizios have poor reliability, although this is based on just reading stuff on the net.

Stereodude 04-06-2014 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducpiloti View Post

This may be a better FALD choice than the new M series...
Perhaps as long as you don't want a TV in any size other than 55"...

ducpiloti 04-15-2014 09:19 AM

It was backordered 1-3 wks 2 weeks ago and it's still backordered 1-3 weeks, LOL! And Amazon is 1-3 months!!! I do not understand why manufacturers release a product that is not available in any reasonable time frame...

Knocks 04-16-2014 03:53 PM

Is there a 60 inch version?

Stereodude 04-16-2014 04:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knocks View Post

Is there a 60 inch version?
No, just a 47" and 55".

Stereodude 04-22-2014 12:20 PM

The User's Guide (manual) is posted here.

Stereodude 04-22-2014 12:51 PM

Are we really sure the L7400U is a FALD set? All signs point to FA with "frame" dimming. The US manual shows it having DynaLight™ so it has some sort of dimming.

However... The L7400U seems to be the US model of the Regza J8 and not the Z8. The Z8 has passive 3D. The J8 does not have 3D. The L7400U's manual makes no mention of 3D, ergo it's the J8. So, per the spec sheet for the J8 it does not have "LED Area Control" (Google translated wording). There's a - instead of a dot in the feature list for that. In contrast, the Z8X (L9300U in the US) has "LED Area Control" per its spec sheet. We know from hands on reviews for the L9300 that it is edgelit with some sort of area dimming scheme. Also, the FALD Z9X (L9400U in the US) has "Direct LED control area sparkle" (Google translated wording) per its spec sheet.

Edit: How this all jives with the press release material from Toshiba that said the L7400 had "Quantum Black™Local Dimming" I'm not sure. My guess is that the PR is wrong.

Mrke1 04-22-2014 03:53 PM

Is there any indications as to how many zones this set will have?

Stereodude 04-22-2014 04:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrke1 View Post

Is there any indications as to how many zones this set will have?
It seems to have one zone...

WaveBoy 04-22-2014 07:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

It seems to have one zone...
lol what?

Stereodude 04-22-2014 07:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

lol what?
It's very likely not a FALD set. Read post #23.

*UFO* 04-22-2014 07:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

It's very likely not a FALD set. Read post #23.

As of current news, it is in fact a FALD set. Read the amazon description.

"Slim, smart, and cloud-connected, the Toshiba L7400U LED Smart TV with Cloud Portal delivers brighter, better images and sound thanks to 1080p Full HD, the new Toshiba Radiance Full Array LED panel with Toshiba's own Super Bright LEDs, Wide Color Gamut, Quantum Black Local Dimming, Clear Scan 240Hz, CQ Dual+ Single Core Engine, a new Labyrinth Speaker System, DTS Premium Surround Sound, and more."

They would not use that term if it were just frame dimming, nor would they waste the time of implementing full array LED's just to use frame dimming.

Stereodude 04-22-2014 07:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

As of current news, it is in fact a FALD set. Read the amazon description.

"Slim, smart, and cloud-connected, the Toshiba L7400U LED Smart TV with Cloud Portal delivers brighter, better images and sound thanks to 1080p Full HD, the new Toshiba Radiance Full Array LED panel with Toshiba's own Super Bright LEDs, Wide Color Gamut, Quantum Black Local Dimming, Clear Scan 240Hz, CQ Dual+ Single Core Engine, a new Labyrinth Speaker System, DTS Premium Surround Sound, and more."

They would not use that term if it were just frame dimming, nor would they waste the time of implementing full array LED's just to use frame dimming.
Read post 23 and get back to me... I don't care what features Amazon and other retailers advertise.

You're effectively claiming that they decided to not implement Local Dimming on the Japanese model that the L7400U is based on (J8), but did on the US specific L7400U. On top of that they neglected to make any mention of it in the manual. Color me extremely skeptical that it has local dimming.

*UFO* 04-22-2014 07:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

Read post 23 and get back to me... I don't care what features Amazon and other retailers advertise.

You're effectively claiming that they decided to not implement Local Dimming on the Japanese model that the L7400U is based on (J8), but did on the US specific L7400U. On top of that they neglected to make any mention of it in the manual. Color me extremely skeptical that it has local dimming.

I read it before I posted. Your post is completely meaningless. Manufacturers make downgraded and upgraded versions of the same product all the time and limit them to certain markets.


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