Official Sony X950B Owner's thread - Page 30 - AVS Forum
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post #871 of 1327 Old 07-04-2014, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Xeneize12 View Post
My understanding is that HDMI 1.4 is 4:4:4 Chroma capable as well... I think there's a ton of terms being thrown out here with very little basis... No offense for all I know, you may be right... I find it hard to believe that any 4K sets launched in 2014 are not fully HDMI 2.0 supported, let alone a Sony Flagship 8000 dollar set.
this was discussed in another thread a week or so ago. The modes that the set supports are clearly stated in the spec sheet.

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Originally Posted by 950B spec sheet
Video Signal : 3840x2160/24p; 3840x2160/25p; 3840x2160/30p; 4096x2160/24p; 3840x2160/60p (YCbCr4:2:0 8bit); 1080/24p (HDMI only); 1080/60i; 1080/60p (HDMI / Component); 480/60i; 480/60p; 720/60p; 1080/30p (HDMI only); 720/30p (HDMI only); 720/24p (HDMI only)
Courtesy of @Stereodude

Says that at 60Hz chroma sampling is limited to 4:2:0.
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post #872 of 1327 Old 07-04-2014, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Hisma View Post
this was discussed in another thread a week or so ago. The modes that the set supports are clearly stated in the spec sheet.


Courtesy of @Stereodude

Says that at 60Hz chroma sampling is limited to 4:2:0.
Fair enough. Is that maybe firmware addressable hence the 2.0 support claimed ?

Or a better question is... Is this probably a limitation of the technology itself due to bandwidth? In which case it's not just a 950B limitation.... Just trying to make sense of this.

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post #873 of 1327 Old 07-04-2014, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Xeneize12 View Post
Fair enough. Is that maybe firmware addressable hence the 2.0 support claimed ?

Or a better question is... Is this probably a limitation of the technology itself due to bandwidth? In which case it's not just a 950B limitation.... Just trying to make sense of this.
It's a bandwidth limitation. A properly spec'ed HDMI 2.0 port will offer 16 Gbps of bandwidth, which is enough to deliver full RGB 4K @ 60 Hz. there are already HDMI 2.0 chipsets available that allow 16 Gbps throughput, though apparently sony couldn't get their hands on them before they released this set.

Someone feel free to prove me wrong though, only going off what I've read.
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post #874 of 1327 Old 07-04-2014, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hisma View Post
It's a bandwidth limitation. A properly spec'ed HDMI 2.0 port will offer 16 Gbps of bandwidth, which is enough to deliver full RGB 4K @ 60 Hz. there are already HDMI 2.0 chipsets available that allow 16 Gbps throughput, though apparently sony couldn't get their hands on them before they released this set.

Someone feel free to prove me wrong though, only going off what I've read.
I guess this warrants a chat with the Sony rep... He clearly stated that it was 4k/60fps capable, he even went as far as telling me I would probably need to upgrade my Receiver unless it had 4k pass through and high speed 18gb HDMI cables.... I'm sure he didn't flat out lie and his explanation was indicative of someone who knows what they are talking about.
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post #875 of 1327 Old 07-04-2014, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Xeneize12 View Post
I guess this warrants a chat with the Sony rep... He clearly stated that it was 4k/60fps capable, he even went as far as telling me I would probably need to upgrade my Receiver unless it had 4k pass through and high speed 18gb HDMI cables.... I'm sure he didn't flat out lie and his explanation was indicative of someone who knows what they are talking about.
It IS capable of 4k/60Hz, but it has to reduce the amount of color information to deal with the bandwidth limitation, hence 4:2:0 subsampling.

Here's a great article on the subject:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8191/n...upport-kind-of

If you speak to a sony rep, specifically ask him if the set is capable of 4K/60fps @ full RGB or 4:4:4 sampling.
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post #876 of 1327 Old 07-04-2014, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Hisma View Post
It IS capable of 4k/60Hz, but it has to reduce the amount of color information to deal with the bandwidth limitation, hence 4:2:0 subsampling.

Here's a great article on the subject:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8191/n...upport-kind-of

If you speak to a sony rep, specifically ask him if the set is capable of 4K/60fps @ full RGB or 4:4:4 sampling.
Ok that makes sense, thanks for the link and will absolutely have that chat.
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post #877 of 1327 Old 07-04-2014, 06:56 PM
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Im waiting to see this
http://ces.vizio.com/ and then compare
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post #878 of 1327 Old 07-04-2014, 07:30 PM
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Im waiting to see this
http://ces.vizio.com/ and then compare
Not big at all on Vizio... But are they even out this reference models?
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post #879 of 1327 Old 07-04-2014, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Xeneize12 View Post
Not big at all on Vizio... But are they even out this reference models?
This site,all of a sudden, has gone crazy--no longer informative,just confused. The big question is why have we not seen a review in print by a legit source. Is Sony power telling Sound and Vision etc. not to say anything? It's been well over a month-where are the reviews? Six to eight thousand dollars for a set which seems not to be living up to the hype? What's up?
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post #880 of 1327 Old 07-04-2014, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by nic66718 View Post
This site,all of a sudden, has gone crazy--no longer informative,just confused. The big question is why have we not seen a review in print by a legit source. Is Sony power telling Sound and Vision etc. not to say anything? It's been well over a month-where are the reviews? Six to eight thousand dollars for a set which seems not to be living up to the hype? What's up?
I agree on the confusion... Not many sets have been sold, I don;'t even know anyone that actually has one, I believe there's only 1-2 owners here.
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post #881 of 1327 Old 07-04-2014, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Xeneize12 View Post
I agree on the confusion... Not many sets have been sold, I don;'t even know anyone that actually has one, I believe there's only 1-2 owners here.
I know sony Canada has been back ordered for the longest time. I'm still waiting on mine.it should be getting here in the next two weeks. I'll be sure to post how I like it. My last couple TVs have been the vt30 sharp elite and vt50. I love black levels so I'm hoping this tv does not disappoint. Sonys quality control has been very disappointing for me I've gone through 3 x900a. I'm very anxious to see my panel, here's hoping.
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post #882 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 12:02 AM
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I know sony Canada has been back ordered for the longest time. I'm still waiting on mine.it should be getting here in the next two weeks. I'll be sure to post how I like it. My last couple TVs have been the vt30 sharp elite and vt50. I love black levels so I'm hoping this tv does not disappoint. Sonys quality control has been very disappointing for me I've gone through 3 x900a. I'm very anxious to see my panel, here's hoping.
Which exact model do you refer to that you will have in 2 weeks & where did you order it from?

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post #883 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 07:38 AM
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Which exact model do you refer to that you will have in 2 weeks & where did you order it from?
The 65x950b, I ordered it right from sony canada. I had to pay an extra 2500 to move up to the 950 but I only paid 3700 for my x900a. I've been looking for 950b reveiws every day and have only found chads review. I did get to see the 950 in store and I was every impressed. The black levels and contrast mixed with 4k was pure eye candy.
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post #884 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by nic66718 View Post
This site,all of a sudden, has gone crazy--no longer informative,just confused. The big question is why have we not seen a review in print by a legit source. Is Sony power telling Sound and Vision etc. not to say anything? It's been well over a month-where are the reviews? Six to eight thousand dollars for a set which seems not to be living up to the hype? What's up?
I don't think it's confusion. I think Sony is not giving people review units. As for inventory, in the Dallas area they had something like over 15 of these sets in stock. Most places I've talked to have them too.

I honestly find the off angle viewing, lack of rechargeable glasses, and price all to be big issues many are having a difficult time swallowing. Not to mention, others may have experienced what I have in QC issues or Sony customer support being unhelpful.

But people are posting on here who have bought it. Some have been very happy and have gotten acceptable units. Others have returned theirs and are looking at other manufacturers.

The one thing I've seen on several threads about banding and backlight bleed being alleviated some by rubbing the screen. So for those that are having any of those issues, give that a shot too. Just be careful when doing it.
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post #885 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 09:33 AM
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I don't think it's corner cutting, Sonys 4k sets have the least lag, it must taken much more processing power to upscale to 4k. I bet if you feed a 4k gaming signal the lag would go way down.
The only problem here is the set has no display port connection and cannot do 4k at 60fps. And neither the PS4 or Xbox 1 will anytime soon as they are HDMI 1.4. So upscaling is here and cannot be shut off. Sony is also mum on specifics often. Panasonic AX900 and even Samsungs 9000 seem to have a much heartier processor inside.

What I find interesting is Apple iPads seem to be able to upscale stuff on a mobile device that has battery limitations. Why are television manufacturers so unwilling to invest in the chipset processing and get in bed with the likes of Google or even Apple (Apple probably would never allow it though) and wow us instead of focus on insane margins. I know the 950B has a cost somewhere of 4,000 to 5,000 depending on some of the larger resellers. So thats a large amount of profit for resellers. Plus what Sony's profit is on selling to the vendors.

The Kuru Elites were expensive but you got what you paid for. I am simply not seeing it on the 950B and I'm sure that will likely hack a few off. But I know what I want and would like in a new set. And it needs to really shine over a tv that's a couple years old at this price point and several thousand dollars more. I don't subscribe to the school of thought that a higher price tag guarantees a vastly better product, or even marginally now days. Seems like a great stride forward and then like cars, features are removed and then incrementally added each year to sell you in buying the newer tech.

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When you say it wasn't bad, was it noticeable? How could you tell the older 950 1080p set handled the lag better?
I've played COD games a lot. And while not scientific with equipment, you get a good feel for how much time lapses when playing. I also had one set on the floor hooked up to a extra 360 and my other set running as usual. So I could do a side by side comparison. As stated before, the up conversion must add some slight delay. For most , they would probably be fine and not notice. Doing a side by side, just as they do in a TV shoutout, that's where I think you can tell. Otherwise, I probably would have said it felt about the same if not identical. But my 360 was also running through a Denon and then to the TV set vs being plugged directly into the 950B. So I'd assume the Denon setup on the old tv would likely have added a little bit of lag too. But I'm being unscientific about this. I would have expected the 950B to be equal to the 950 running through the Denon. But those are just my observations.
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post #886 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 09:43 AM
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The 950b is able to do 4k 60fps at 4:2:0 over hdmi. I'm not sure if there are video cards that are able to yet though.


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Originally Posted by BarrettF77 View Post
The only problem here is the set has no display port connection and cannot do 4k at 60fps. And neither the PS4 or Xbox 1 will anytime soon as they are HDMI 1.4. So upscaling is here and cannot be shut off. Sony is also mum on specifics often. Panasonic AX900 and even Samsungs 9000 seem to have a much heartier processor inside.

What I find interesting is Apple iPads seem to be able to upscale stuff on a mobile device that has battery limitations. Why are television manufacturers so unwilling to invest in the chipset processing and get in bed with the likes of Google or even Apple (Apple probably would never allow it though) and wow us instead of focus on insane margins. I know the 950B has a cost somewhere of 4,000 to 5,000 depending on some of the larger resellers. So thats a large amount of profit for resellers. Plus what Sony's profit is on selling to the vendors.

The Kuru Elites were expensive but you got what you paid for. I am simply not seeing it on the 950B and I'm sure that will likely hack a few off. But I know what I want and would like in a new set. And it needs to really shine over a tv that's a couple years old at this price point and several thousand dollars more. I don't subscribe to the school of thought that a higher price tag guarantees a vastly better product, or even marginally now days. Seems like a great stride forward and then like cars, features are removed and then incrementally added each year to sell you in buying the newer tech.



I've played COD games a lot. And while not scientific with equipment, you get a good feel for how much time lapses when playing. I also had one set on the floor hooked up to a extra 360 and my other set running as usual. So I could do a side by side comparison. As stated before, the up conversion must add some slight delay. For most , they would probably be fine and not notice. Doing a side by side, just as they do in a TV shoutout, that's where I think you can tell. Otherwise, I probably would have said it felt about the same if not identical. But my 360 was also running through a Denon and then to the TV set vs being plugged directly into the 950B. So I'd assume the Denon setup on the old tv would likely have added a little bit of lag too. But I'm being unscientific about this. I would have expected the 950B to be equal to the 950 running through the Denon. But those are just my observations.
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post #887 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 10:53 AM
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The 950b is able to do 4k 60fps at 4:2:0 over hdmi. I'm not sure if there are video cards that are able to yet though.
Does the PS4 need to support HDMI 2.0 for 60fps gaming? Or is it irrelevant?
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post #888 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 10:57 AM
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As long as 4K is not involved, HDMI 1.4 is enough for the PS4.
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post #889 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 11:03 AM
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Cost Calculation

Rule of thumb. (Please Note: Does not necessarily apply in ALL cases.)
Take your Regular Retail Price: ie $8000 and divide by 8 = $1000 initial manufacturing cost. To this add Warranty Costs, Shipping Costs, Markup Costs of various groups in between the Manufacturer, and the end Retailer, Warehousing Costs, Marketing Costs, plus Administrative Costs.
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post #890 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Xeneize12 View Post
Does the PS4 need to support HDMI 2.0 for 60fps gaming? Or is it irrelevant?
The ps4 does 1080p at 60fps, the ps4 will never do gaming at 4k even at 30fps. If you had a gaming pc it would have to have an hdmi 2.0 to do 4k at 60fps.
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post #891 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 12:26 PM
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The ps4 does 1080p at 60fps, the ps4 will never do gaming at 4k even at 30fps. If you had a gaming pc it would have to have an hdmi 2.0 to do 4k at 60fps.
Ahh ok this explains it. I knew the limitations of the ps4 gpu wise I just wasn't sure how it talks to the set, I guess I didn't think things through, the upconversion happens on the tv itself
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post #892 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 06:41 PM
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The 950b is able to do 4k 60fps at 4:2:0 over hdmi. I'm not sure if there are video cards that are able to yet though.
The latest Nvidia drivers enable support for this on their most recent cards (Kepler). link
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post #893 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 09:11 PM
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I guess this warrants a chat with the Sony rep... He clearly stated that it was 4k/60fps capable, he even went as far as telling me I would probably need to upgrade my Receiver unless it had 4k pass through and high speed 18gb HDMI cables.... I'm sure he didn't flat out lie and his explanation was indicative of someone who knows what they are talking about.
Did you get the rep from Sony's name ? Otherwise it is just her-say
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post #894 of 1327 Old 07-05-2014, 09:39 PM
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The FINAL Specifications for ALL the Required Specificatons for 4K are NOT yet FINALIZED!
All 4Ks sold currently could be called 4K lite versus last year's, 4K lighter than lite sets.
For those taking their Sony 950Bs back - Panasonic 900s not quite available yet.
Not to mention we will see how they test when they come out........
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post #895 of 1327 Old 07-06-2014, 07:40 AM
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Panasonic ?

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Not to mention we will see how they test when they come out........
From what I've read so far on this Forum, my being Gung Ho to get the 950B has diminished greatly! 8K with quality issues is definitely a no no. Panasonic 900 build quality and PQ postings and reviews should be something to look forward to. If it doesn't work out, I guess it's wait a couple more years for OLED to work out it's issues. Will stick with my 55LHX and PN64F8500 for now. With the latest Calman updates, Radiance FW revisions, and Manni's dE94 calibrating setting - both these sets are continuing to look better and better!
(Maybe Sony's delay in bringing the set to Canada is a blessing in disguise?)
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post #896 of 1327 Old 07-06-2014, 10:13 AM
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From what I've read so far on this Forum, my being Gung Ho to get the 950B has diminished greatly! 8K with quality issues is definitely a no no. Panasonic 900 build quality and PQ postings and reviews should be something to look forward to. If it doesn't work out, I guess it's wait a couple more years for OLEN to work out it's issues. Will stick with my 55LHX and PN64F8500 for now. With the latest Calman updates, Radiance FW revisions, and Manni's dE94 calibrating setting - both these sets are continuing to look better and better!
(Maybe Sony's delay in bringing the set to Canada is a blessing in disguise?)
I would take a look at the 950 in store. I went to look at it twice already and it looks amazing! I've owned many great sets over the years sharp elite and the vt50 two of the best performing TVs and the 950 playing 4k was the most impressive picture I've been in a store.
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post #897 of 1327 Old 07-06-2014, 10:14 AM
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From what I've read so far on this Forum, my being Gung Ho to get the 950B has diminished greatly! 8K with quality issues is definitely a no no. Panasonic 900 build quality and PQ postings and reviews should be something to look forward to. If it doesn't work out, I guess it's wait a couple more years for OLEN to work out it's issues. Will stick with my 55LHX and PN64F8500 for now. With the latest Calman updates, Radiance FW revisions, and Manni's dE94 calibrating setting - both these sets are continuing to look better and better!
(Maybe Sony's delay in bringing the set to Canada is a blessing in disguise?)
With you on this one. The AX900 is the one I'm waiting for. Sony let me down and I got my $$$ and saw it for as a polished turd. If the set was MSRP'd about 2k lower, I'd see the potential. But 4K isn't finalized and I would rather of had a set that was actually better than my dying sets. I'm really needing to replace them, but Sony is just doing what Samsung did years ago, rely on name recognition.

Since they are all using two or three different vendors and slapping a name on the front panel, it really comes down to the quality of panels they are buying, and the quality of chipsets and processing they are putting in these sets. 4K is still a beta and a gimmick to me for the most part. Eyeing the Sammy 78" too, but I've seen people say that those sets have some lag to them and I like to play Xbox and Playstation some, and that's an issue for FPS games.
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post #898 of 1327 Old 07-06-2014, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
From what I've read so far on this Forum, my being Gung Ho to get the 950B has diminished greatly! 8K with quality issues is definitely a no no. Panasonic 900 build quality and PQ postings and reviews should be something to look forward to. If it doesn't work out, I guess it's wait a couple more years for OLEN to work out it's issues. Will stick with my 55LHX and PN64F8500 for now. With the latest Calman updates, Radiance FW revisions, and Manni's dE94 calibrating setting - both these sets are continuing to look better and better!
(Maybe Sony's delay in bringing the set to Canada is a blessing in disguise?)
IMO the 900B is so good it make the 950B not worth considering. I am as picky as they come, the 900B put the final nail in the plasma coffin.

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post #899 of 1327 Old 07-06-2014, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Adamd View Post
I would take a look at the 950 in store. I went to look at it twice already and it looks amazing! I've owned many great sets over the years sharp elite and the vt50 two of the best performing TVs and the 950 playing 4k was the most impressive picture I've been in a store.

And it's set to Store Dynamic Mode!
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post #900 of 1327 Old 07-06-2014, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Adamd View Post
I would take a look at the 950 in store. I went to look at it twice already and it looks amazing! I've owned many great sets over the years sharp elite and the vt50 two of the best performing TVs and the 950 playing 4k was the most impressive picture I've been in a store.
I spent hours looking at the 950B trying to justify it being 3k over the 900B, I could not. In fact I believe the 900B has better viewing angles and of course sound with black levels and contrast that are close enough.

If the 950B was 3K better, I would own it. The last time I looked at the 950B when I would stand up from the sides the set had horrible clouding and blooming ( this set was table mounted). Best Buys Sony Experience deliberately wall mounts the 950B at eye level and the 900B lower to make it look better.
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Gear in this thread - X950B by PriceGrabber.com



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