Official 2014 Vizio Mxxx-Bx Series owners thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 05:51 PM
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The Panel being used, I dont know the manufacturer (could be Sharp maybe) but it's the same panel that is in the 39" for sure (and I believe the 65") E series. It operates similarly to a Vertical Array.

So I have no BluRay Player. But I have Disney Wow, Avia II, Digital Video Essentials, and THX Optimizer on DVD....and am using an Oppo 970HD to shoot them to the Vizio M422i.

I just ran an hour worth of calibration (but no Advanced Color Calibration yet).

These are my settings on the DVD Player. I havent much time with these on the ATSC Tuner (which usually requires some adjustment from these Calibration Disc settings on the DVD Player which I use as a base to work off of).


Backlight 100
Brightness 52
Contrast 67 (this may be iffy - the quick tests were setting it somewhere around 50 give or take but the advanced Disney tests gave me this)
Color 50
Tint -1
Sharpness 40 (not convinced about this yet either)

Color Temp Cool
Black Detail Medium
Dimming On
Smooth Motion Level Off
Motion Blur (Backlight Scanning) On
Noise Reduction Low
Block Noise Reduction Low

I thought that there might be some pincushion distortion based upon the opening scene of T2 - Extreme Editioin (Superbit) DVD that I do a lot of analysis with)....which cuts from the opening credits to the front grill of a Mack truck....but the test patterns were showing accurate grids.

The other thing I noticed was that this set appears to have Greenish Blacks. I havent messed with the Advanced Color settings yet. And maybe Im wrong. But I fairly certain and it' something that is bothering me.

I do notice some blooming but it's not too objectionable IMO. This is on isolated White Text and Graphics on a Black screen. ( I havent checked scrolling credits yet.) The good native blacks from the panel helps keep the blooming from being offensive.

They seem to have mitigated the Dimming...so it darkens down in steps and not all at once, when dropping to a black screen for example which is nice. But it is noticeable. This is fairly aggressive dimming. (I havent seen an E series outside of Store Demos so cant compare to them).

On a personal note.... I appreciate the increased pixel density (reduced pixel size) of the 42" as opposed to the 48" that I just returned as I sit fairly close to the screen and can make out the individual pixels in a solid medium color image (Screen Door Effect). I think S-IPS (in plane switching) which doesnt darken down panels of a Vertical Array but rather "closes the door" behind the LCD subpixel crystals for a continuous darkening down of the entire subpixels helps alleviate this and would allow use of a larger panel (perhaps 47" to 50" for me in this situation. But that is neither here nor there...just an observation that may or may not hold true.

Overall Im very happy with the set and glad returned the Insignia and paid a premium for the M422i....assuming this Greenish Black issues pans out. I think Vizio is about to blow the roof off of the low and midrange LCD HDTV market with these E and M series sets.

Ill have the Master and Commander DVD back again tomorrow to test for Banding.
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post #92 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

The Panel being used, I dont know the manufacturer (could be Sharp maybe) but it's the same panel that is in the 39" for sure (and I believe the 65") E series. It operates similarly to a Vertical Array.

So I have no BluRay Player. But I have Disney Wow, Avia II, Digital Video Essentials, and THX Optimizer on DVD....and am using an Oppo 970HD to shoot them to the Vizio M422i.

I just ran an hour worth of calibration (but no Advanced Color Calibration yet).

These are my settings on the DVD Player. I havent much time with these on the ATSC Tuner (which usually requires some adjustment from these Calibration Disc settings on the DVD Player which I use as a base to work off of).


Backlight 100
Brightness 52
Contrast 67 (this may be iffy)
Color 50
Tint -1
Sharpness 40 (not convinced about this yet either)

Color Temp Cool
Black Detail Medium
Dimming On
Smooth Motion Level Off
Motion Blur On
Noise Reduction Low
Block Noise Reduction Low

I thought that there might be some pincushion distortion based upon the opening scene of T2 - Extreme Editioin (Superbit) DVD that I do a lot of analysis with)....which cuts from the opening credits to the front grill of a Mack truck....but the test patterns were showing accurate grids.

The other thing I noticed was that this set appears to have Greenish Blacks. I havent messed with the Advanced Color settings yet. And maybe Im wrong. But I fairly certain and it' something that is bothering me.

I do notice some blooming but it's not too objectionable IMO. This is on isolated White Text and Graphics on a Black screen. ( I havent checked scrolling credits yet.) The good native blacks from the panel helps keep the blooming from being offensive.

They seem to have mitigated the Dimming...so it darkens down in steps and not all at once, when dropping to a black screen for example which is nice. But it is noticeable. This is fairly aggressive dimming. (I havent seen an E series outside of Store Demos so cant compare to them).

On a personal note.... I appreciate the increased pixel density (reduced pixel size) of the 42" as opposed to the 48" that I just returned as I sit fairly close to the screen and can make out the individual pixels in a solid medium color image (Screen Door Effect). I think S-IPS (in plane switching) which doesnt darken down panels of a Vertical Array but rather "closes the door" behind the LCD subpixel crystals for a continuous darkening down of the entire subpixels helps alleviate this and would allow use of a larger panel (perhaps 47" to 50" for me in this situation. But that is neither here nor there...just an observation that may or may not hold true.

Overall Im very happy with the set and glad returned the Insignia and paid a premium for the M422i....assuming this Greenish Black issues pans out. I think Vizio is about to blow the roof off of the low and midrange LCD HDTV market with these E and M series sets.

Ill have the Master and Commander DVD back again tomorrow to test for Banding.

Your greenish blacks may be related to the Cool color temperature setting.  Not knowing what options are available (previous Vizios had Normal setting), Normal tends to be more accurate as Cool will give a blue/green tint to the overall picture.

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post #93 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:03 PM
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I find the Advanced Color Controls very intimidating. Ill need some help with using them.

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post #94 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

I find the Advanced Color Controls very intimidating. Ill need some help with using them.

Unless you have a meter to see what you are doing there is no point in touching them in my opinion.  

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post #95 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
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Your greenish blacks may be related to the Cool color temperature setting.  Not knowing what options are available (previous Vizios had Normal setting), Normal tends to be more accurate as Cool will give a blue/green tint to the overall picture.

Yeah, there was no Normal setting which is what I usually use.

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post #96 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post


Yeah, there was no Normal setting which is what I usually use.

Was there a Warm or Standard?

 

Edit, just checked the manual and it shows a Normal setting which will be most accurate.

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post #97 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:10 PM
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Warm.

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post #98 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:12 PM
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Warm.

Odd, does your manual show a Normal setting?  The online manual does.

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post #99 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:14 PM
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I wondered if it might be the Black Detail tool, so I turned it off but was still seeing the Greenish Blacks. I dont see the Greenish Blacks in the Full Field Black Screen, though, even before the Dimming catches up.

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post #100 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Odd, does your manual show a Normal setting?  The online manual does.

Im not with the set, now. Ill have to check it out later.

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post #101 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:21 PM
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The Backlight Scanning is an all or nothing affair. It's On or Off.

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post #102 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:23 PM
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Defective TV set?
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post #103 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:27 PM
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I doubt it. It's a subtle phenomenon also, it's not not in your face. And it only shows itself in dark overall scenes. Maybe it's just me. Will know more as I gain time with the set.

Ill check the Oppo too. Might be originating there. Ive got a Panny S97 here as well.

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post #104 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

I doubt it. It's a subtle phenomenon also, it's not not in your face. And it only shows itself in dark overall scenes. Maybe it's just me. Will know more as I gain time with the set.

Ill check the Oppo too. Might be originating there.

Maybe it's the 'Active Pixel Tuning' eek.gif
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post #105 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:32 PM
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Ive got a Panny S97 DVD Player, the ATSC tuner, Dish Sat, and Playstation 2 as alternative sources. We'll see how it goes.

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post #106 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:37 PM
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For Color Temperature, my 42" has Cool, Normal, and Computer. It could be based on what input you are plugged into. Mine is HDMI 1.

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post #107 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:41 PM
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Anyways, Ill report back tomorrow. Ill check the Color Temp setting. I need to read up on how to use those Advanced Color Controls.

So far so good.

Really loving the FALD.

Who is the guy that has owned like 10 Vizios including the FALD sets (with the S-IPS panels) from 2011 or so...the XTV**3SV and the XVT3D**4SV? I hope he picks one up and chimes in with comparisons. Id like to see comparison between the 2014 E series and the 2014 M series as well. Thmanx comparison between the 2013 M series and the 2014 M series was great.

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post #108 of 1803 Old 05-14-2014, 06:48 PM
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For Color Temperature, my 42" has Cool, Normal, and Computer. It could be based on what input you are plugged into. Mine is HDMI 1.

Im in one of the lower HDMI ports with the Oppo 970HD. Not the side. Maybe Ill switch out the cable as well.

Good night, fellow AVSForum geeks.

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post #109 of 1803 Old 05-15-2014, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Anyways, Ill report back tomorrow. Ill check the Color Temp setting. I need to read up on how to use those Advanced Color Controls.

So far so good.

Really loving the FALD.

Who is the guy that has owned like 10 Vizios including the FALD sets (with the S-IPS panels) from 2011 or so...the XTV**3SV and the XVT3D**4SV? I hope he picks one up and chimes in with comparisons. Id like to see comparison between the 2014 E series and the 2014 M series as well. Thmanx comparison between the 2013 M series and the 2014 M series was great.

That would be me. I can't be sure because I can't do a direct side by side, but this lowly $400.00 E42 has a better picture than the past fald models I had, and those cost 5x as much. The only thing lacking is off angle viewing, but it's almost as good, and I sit dead center anyways so...

I plan on getting the 49 of 50", but the 42" is a possibility. Again, I'd have to be going off of memory when comparing what I had 3 years ago. The only thing that ruined that experience was blooming, and from everything that I've read from you and Thmanz, it may no longer be an issue. I've experienced nothing distracting on this new set, I'm very impressed.

Thanks for all the info you're posting!
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post #110 of 1803 Old 05-15-2014, 07:23 AM
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So I have Cool, Normal and Computer color temps. The Normal setting juices the Green Blacks and the Cool and Computer setttings tone the Green Blacks down quite a bit. The Green Blacks were also to be found on the ATSC Tuner OTA Broadcasts, especially with the Normal Color Temp setting.

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post #111 of 1803 Old 05-15-2014, 07:25 AM
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Well that's a bummer.
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post #112 of 1803 Old 05-15-2014, 07:32 AM
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On the plus side, I went into the Advanced Color Management system and turned the Gain on Green down a few notches and it seemed to tame the Green Blacks (even on Normal). I think this can be solved with the Advanced Color Tools.

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post #113 of 1803 Old 05-15-2014, 07:52 AM
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While watching the Late Night Shows last night, I noticed weird and eggregious Edge Enhancement artifacting but it wasnt the Sharpness that was causing it. It was the Smooth Motion Effect....which I turned off and it solved the issue.

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post #114 of 1803 Old 05-15-2014, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
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On the plus side, I went into the Advanced Color Management system and turned the Gain on Green down a few notches and it seemed to tame the Green Blacks (even on Normal). I think this can be solved with the Advanced Color Tools.

It can definitely be solved in the Advanced mode (is it called "Professional Picture Settings" on your M422?). But you might instead try turning Green Offset down a few ticks (-2 to -5) and put Green Gain back to 0. "Gain" affects the lighter end of the picture, whereas "Offset" controls the darker parts, which is where you indicate you're seeing the greenish cast.

Sounds like you need to do a grayscale calibration at a minimum. You can probably do a simple 2-point (Gain and Offset) by eye, but getting into the 11-point grayscale calibration would require specialized equipment and test patterns.
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post #115 of 1803 Old 05-15-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

If one of those sizes is released soon that will be my only other option for top of the line 1080p FALD displays, aside from the Toshiba L7400. That's if the M series can deliver low input lag with Smart/local dimming disabled.

I, too, am waiting on input lag results. I emailed DisplayLag asking if they had plans to test these units, but heard nothing back. I won't be buying an M Series personally, but my brother needs a gaming TV. If the M looks good and has low input lag, then I'll hold out for the P Series for myself.
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post #116 of 1803 Old 05-15-2014, 11:21 AM
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It can definitely be solved in the Advanced mode (is it called "Professional Picture Settings" on your M422?). But you might instead try turning Green Offset down a few ticks (-2 to -5) and put Green Gain back to 0. "Gain" affects the lighter end of the picture, whereas "Offset" controls the darker parts, which is where you indicate you're seeing the greenish cast.

Sounds like you need to do a grayscale calibration at a minimum. You can probably do a simple 2-point (Gain and Offset) by eye, but getting into the 11-point grayscale calibration would require specialized equipment and test patterns.

Thanks for the tips, I dont know what Im doing with the Advanced Color Tools.

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post #117 of 1803 Old 05-15-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DWells55 View Post

I, too, am waiting on input lag results. I emailed DisplayLag asking if they had plans to test these units, but heard nothing back. I won't be buying an M Series personally, but my brother needs a gaming TV. If the M looks good and has low input lag, then I'll hold out for the P Series for myself.

The best gaming option right now is to get a non-smart 2014 Vizio E series, which is rocking 27ms of input lag. The downside is that the non-smart E series are limited to 48" and smaller and don't have local dimming. the 48" is going for $498. That's ONE of my options right now. I have a feeling the M series will score just as poorly as the Smart TV E series which have '42ms' of lag.....how is it even possible for the M series to achieve lower results? not happening imo.

Look out for the Toshiba Full Array L7400, it's rumored to have only 12ms of input lag.
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post #118 of 1803 Old 05-15-2014, 02:00 PM
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A somewhat hidden Easter Egg....

There is a Signal Quality Meter on the Sytem Inofrmation button if tuned to an ATSC channel. smile.gif They really should have this up in the Tuner section. And they dont have a Manual Add Digital Channel in the Tuner section. mad.gif

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post #119 of 1803 Old 05-15-2014, 02:56 PM
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EscapeVelocity - I'm going to ask a newb question. Is it possible the 970HD is the source of the greenish blacks?
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post #120 of 1803 Old 05-15-2014, 03:04 PM
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EscapeVelocity - I'm going to ask a newb question. Is it possible the 970HD is the source of the greenish blacks?

Yes...but then I watched some OTA broadcast from the ATSC tuner and the Greenish Blacks were there too. Horrible with Normal Setting, mostly mitigated by the Cool Setting but still there. Im gonna work with the Green Offset tonight and see if I can address the issue.

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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